Stably exterior with full perception

[lionheart]

Not really, I would not have missed it - it triggered so much to confront - so much case - so much charge, force and mass - I had to find the correct answers and items to.

You do not often get to witness the rise and fall of an empire.

Hoards of demonics do not bother me any more.

Great lessons learned.



No, most were broken and went into hiding.

Too charged to even make any contact with the area.

A lot to be responsible for.

The loss of ones dreams and reach is a huge loss and many solve that by never daring to dream and reach out again.

The XSO list and this list has been a tremendous help to me as many areas I had questions in - I got the answers to.

Alan

Hi Alan, this is what I meant on another thread about those ex-scns I personally know who have given up the hope of spiritual goals, unable to face the charge Ron and his CofS bypassed on the subject.

Alan, can you tell us how you reconcilled such things as overboarding for yourself? You mentioned in another post about meeting Ron on a beach years later as old friends. What was your attitude during these years to these things?

When I was in Scn this was my major dilemma. I knew of the gleeful overboarding of Class VIII students, it used to be promoted in those days as a great example of achieving "standard tech". Somehow I continued to believe in Ron's wisdom and I'm interested in how you explained Ron's demonic behaviour to yourself in those days rather than now with hindsight.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

He was the fucking Commodore on HIS ship, he was the LAW, he was the savior of the universe, on a super ego trip - and it wasn't about "comedy." (Or TI's silly explanation, about his anchor points being somewhere else, around the right ship.)

Hubbard is your Guru, and TI's too. You both suckle at his divine teet, and hide that (yuck) detail behind a cloak of PR about "Thinking for yourself."

You'll never be able to sort out the "good stuff" from the "trap," because you are like children.

And if you weren't doing harm to good people with your bad advice and toxic silliness, I wouldn't even mention it.

You, and the other L. Ron-worshipping Freezoners, are not taking the subject forward, you are standing still in a puddle of Hubbard's drool, watching the needle float on your e-meters, and going "Wheee."

Thank goodness, not everyone who wishes to salvage the good bits and pieces of the subject is on the "short bus" to "total Wheedom."

Jesus, Veda...that argument is old and stale.

Anytime anyone professes an interest in Scn on critical forums, people accuse them of worshipping and possibly rimming the ol' dead guy hisself.

For some people, it's a matter of ideas and concepts.

I've exchanged emails with Terril. I feel I know him pretty well and count him as a friend. He has a variety of interests in the esoteric and Scn does NOT comprise all of that. He's as far from a ronbot as can be.

The Illusioness-I've read many of her posts. She, too, is interested in other things besides Scn. She's a Druid. I believe her to be an idea/methods type person, as well.

You need to chill out a bit, I think.

 

[RolandRB]

He was the fucking Commodore on HIS ship, he was the LAW, he was the savior of the universe, on a super ego trip - and it wasn't about "comedy." (Or TI's silly explanation, about his anchor points being somewhere else, around the right ship.)

Hubbard is your Guru, and TI's too. You both suckle at his divine teet, and hide that (yuck) detail behind a cloak of PR about "Thinking for yourself."

You'll never be able to sort out the "good stuff" from the "trap," because you are like children.

And if you weren't doing harm to good people with your bad advice and toxic silliness, I wouldn't even mention it.

You, and the other L. Ron-worshipping Freezoners, are not taking the subject forward, you are standing still in a puddle of Hubbard's drool, watching the needle float on your e-meters, and going "Wheee."

Thank goodness, not everyone who wishes to salvage the good bits and pieces of the subject is on the "short bus" to "total Wheedom."

Love it. Superbly crafted. Tell me about yourself.

 

[Terril park]

Not really, I would not have missed it - it triggered so much to confront - so much case - so much charge, force and mass - I had to find the correct answers and items to.

You do not often get to witness the rise and fall of an empire.

Hoards of demonics do not bother me any more.

Great lessons learned.

Alan

I have to say I consider you were greatly priviledged, and earnt that. This
is adventure above and beyond geographical empire.

The literature of the world is full of the struggle and trials of those attempting to do better, learn more. Some basic simplistic examples are Kung
Fu movies showing the novice learning a style and beating the Villain. One may also cite " Jason and the Argonauts". And so much more.

Your journey seems far more dramatic and valuable. And something others can learn from?

No, most were broken and went into hiding.

Too charged to even make any contact with the area.

A lot to be responsible for.

The loss of ones dreams and reach is a huge loss and many solve that by never daring to dream and reach out again.


Alan

All this can be handled in processing. We collectively are here for such.
With such diverse " solutions" But its a comm line. Recently in comm with someone new from the fifties. Not cowed by anyone it seems.

The XSO list and this list has been a tremendous help to me as many areas I had questions in - I got the answers to.

Alan

Thats interesting because you are one most would normally look to for answers.

You wish to comment on your areas of questions and the answers?

 

[Veda]

Just for anyone who hasn't seen it, from a 1986 David Mayo talk:



Paul

Good god - that's depressing!

It was meant to depress you.

Here's the transcript and then the audio, so that this discussion won't be lost in the mist.

I don't think that David Mayo was trying to depress anyone. He wasn't that sort of person.

However, during his time in Europe, during this period, he did, unintentionally, upset some of the Ron's Orgs people by saying some things that they didn't want to hear. He was never invited back.

While some of his lectures (mostly 1983/1984/85) are still presented by the Standard tech Freezone people, his other (later) comments are not mentioned.

http://www.robertdam-cos.dk/mayo audio lecture.ram

 

[Veda]

Love it. Superbly crafted. Tell me about yourself.

Before we start dating seriously, I need to tell you some things -

I have two brains and three eyes.

You're only going to like one of the brains, and as for the third eye - well, in public, I usually keep that covered with a hat.

 

[Tanstaafl]

I don't think that David Mayo was trying to depress anyone. He wasn't that sort of person.http://www.robertdam-cos.dk/mayo audio lecture.ram

To expand on my own quote: it's very depressing if it's true as it sheds LRH in a bad light (to say the least), and it's depressing if it's not true because that would make Mayo a liar and quite possibly an SP which means that LRH couldn't spot an SP to save his life.

The only other possibility is that Mayo's body was taken over by an SP thetan (there is a precedent in Scn) at some later point, but that would be clutching at straws!

 

[Alan]

All this can be handled in processing. We collectively are here for such.

It cannot be handled in processing or ethics - for they are the very things used to crush those dreams.

They need to be unprocessed - unethiced - unadmined.

Massive false data stripping - wrong answers - wrong item - 100's of self listing questions need to be completed - they need to learn to trust themselves again.

The meter is useless as it was part of what was used to make them wrong.

Just going into a safe space triggers their losses.

They have to feel safe enough to vent their fury, rage and anger - 1st at who they gave their power away to - then at themselves for doing that.

They must get their OWN viewpoints back......their OWN frames of reference back.......their OWN goals back.......their OWN dreams back.......their OWN trust for themselves.

This is a long job. It takes the lightest of touches.

With such diverse " solutions" But its a comm line. Recently in comm with someone new from the fifties. Not cowed by anyone it seems.

Not cowed but usually in hiding. Deliberately keeping themselves small and invisible to Scio.

I have several early fifties people connected to me - wonderful founts of data and knowledge.

Marvelous multiple viewpoints on the Game. Many discoveries outside the box.

Thats interesting because you are one most would normally look to for answers.

Be careful; I am as prone to act incorrectly on false data, false beliefs and unknowns as we all are.

I will act and correct as I go along. After all one needs the mass with the significance.....the experience to balance out the wild and weird theories.

You wish to comment on your areas of questions and the answers?

Each time a person writes up something about a particular area - I go back in and inspect it....it acts like a contact assist.......often I find many wrong answers and unknowns covered over by my own incomplete data in the area.

SME was and is a valuable fount of withheld data for me.

But most of all restoring the connection and friendship with those who once saw me as the enemy or I saw them in the same vien.

We are walking a path of heavily disguised, deliberately obscurred unmapped - uncharted territories - much once known - now long forgotten.

That many of us are rising to a level of spirit of play - shows how far we have come from the isolation so many of us have lived in for years.

Alan

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I really wonder how someone can say to people he doesn't even know that they cannot separate good from bad or anything else in Scn because they are "like children".

I think if one wants to see childish behavior, scolding others who've chosen a different approach that they have indicated works for them may fit the bill.

I don't think everyone is perfectly good at separating the wheat from the chaff. I think different people make different choices and have different ideas of what works and is good. I think maybe that this is because different things affect different people in various ways.

But in the end, we make our own reality and that brings the subjective element to the table.

Resenting the personal philosophical choices of others, though, just does not work out so well. If those choices lead someone to suicide bomb your place of residence or business, THEN you've got a beef, otherwise, no, not really.

I'm an ex Christian. I was raised Catholic. There are many things there I no longer believe or accept in any way. But I don't get angry at those who still are and who still believe in concepts I now find to be totally outside what I could believe or want.

In fact, I respect Christians (and other ians and ologists, too. This is just ONE example). I saw "The Passion" and was greatly moved.

I do not resent them for believing in something I no longer believe in.

I do not resent CofS members for staying in CofS.

I do not resent ex members for completely leaving and eschewing ALL of Scn.

Seems to me that we all have different approaches to life and that this is ok.

 

[Alan]

Hi Alan, this is what I meant on another thread about those ex-scns I personally know who have given up the hope of spiritual goals, unable to face the charge Ron and his CofS bypassed on the subject.

Alan, can you tell us how you reconcilled such things as overboarding for yourself?

To be honest - I put my head up my ass and hoped it would go away.

But there was one stuck picture that would not go away. Behind it was at that time an unthikable thought.

Ron had Julia Salmon thrown overboard.....Julia was about 64 years old, terribly overweight and could not swim.

The people who threw her overboard struggled to get her over the side; she was terrified; she kept crying out "I cannot swim!" On her way down she hit the side of the ship - I could hear her screams - it was obvious she was injured and drowning.

The people on the deck all stood around too afraid to do anything. Fearing to originate any action less the become tthe target bof LRHs displeasure.

I ran and jumped over the side and rescued her. I then pulled her over to the ladder that led up to the ground level of the dock........it was about 20 feet straight up. She could not climd the steps. I had my shoulders under her butt pushing her up..... no one still had come to help.......but at the top of that ladder stood LRH filming us.....such evil.......

Anyway after an immense struggle with Julia's help I was able to push her up to the top of the ladder....finally some help arrived.

Over the years the unthinkable thought pushed forward more and more....it was "that I observe that LRH was demonic at that time." I did not want to know that, did not want to believe that.......that was too incredible to be believed - even for me - I did the usual make nothing of myself...."you're seeing things" "what do you know" "you got overts" - much easier to blame self than confront what is.

You mentioned in another post about meeting Ron on a beach years later as old friends. What was your attitude during these years to these things?

I was slowly going out of the game.

Realize we had gone through many changes - and had come out somewhat better for it..........those changes needed to be inspected over many years - to observe their full consequences.

I wanted to believe - I must believe - for if it was a lie then look how many people I had betrayed - definitely a must not be known area - an area of such pain and anguish - it must never be experienced.

When I was in Scn this was my major dilemma. I knew of the gleeful overboarding of Class VIII students, it used to be promoted in those days as a great example of achieving "standard tech". Somehow I continued to believe in Ron's wisdom and I'm interested in how you explained Ron's demonic behaviour to yourself in those days rather than now with hindsight.

By my dilligently continuing to constantly look up and contemplate the interior of my colon!!!

Alan

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Alan,

I have a question. I read your posts and yes, those are absolutely horrible things for anyone to do...stand there filming some poor terrified lady being thrown in the water.

Did you ever see LRH acting decent at all?

 

[beyond_horizons]

Jesus, Veda...that argument is old and stale.

The 'Golden Rule' is 'The Rule' in the Universe of Gods's creation. As children in the image of g-d, to injure another is to bring harm to piece of our oneself.

The subject of God and he, she, it's children was squirreled, bastardized, obfuscated and filtered out of this so-called religion.

Veda's comments are more along the lines of, to borrow a hubbo term, 'Stable Datum'. It is but one of many realizations one has during the exit process from the psychic turbulence the hubbo created behind closed doors and inside that box. This is why what you want to go away is nothing more than a 'viewpoint' that always surfaces on the path out and you can do nothing about it!

IMHO whenever the name Hubbard is mentioned in the same vain as religion, you shall see that the argument will never go away!

 

[Alanzo]

To expand on my own quote: it's very depressing if it's true as it sheds LRH in a bad light (to say the least), and it's depressing if it's not true because that would make Mayo a liar and quite possibly an SP which means that LRH couldn't spot an SP to save his life.

The only other possibility is that Mayo's body was taken over by an SP thetan (there is a precedent in Scn) at some later point, but that would be clutching at straws!

Exactly.

 

[Veda]

Here's the transcript and then the audio, so that this discussion won't be lost in the mist.

I don't think that David Mayo was trying to depress anyone. He wasn't that sort of person.

However, during his time in Europe, during this period, he did, unintentionally, upset some of the Ron's Orgs people by saying some things that they didn't want to hear. He was never invited back.

While some of his lectures (mostly 1983/1984/85) are still presented by the Standard tech Freezone people, his other (later) comments are not mentioned.

To expand on my own quote: it's very depressing if it's true as it sheds LRH in a bad light (to say the least), and it's depressing if it's not true because that would make Mayo a liar and quite possibly an SP which means that LRH couldn't spot an SP to save his life.

The only other possibility is that Mayo's body was taken over by an SP thetan (there is a precedent in Scn) at some later point, but that would be clutching at straws!

L. Ron Hubbard was a chronic teller of tall tales, and - to put it differently - was "not as advertised." The person who mainly placed LRH in a bad light was LRH, from his 1938 "mission statement" of his "real goal" of "smashing his name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form," to his 1930s and 1940s self-hypnotic (his words) "Affirmations," to his bizarre 1950s letters to the FBI, to his 1955 hoax "Russian Brainwashing Textbook," that he later would use on his own followers, to his voluminous confidential tactical writings on how to attack his many "enemies," to his becoming "Source" and the "Commodore," with ash-tray carrying "Commodore's Messengers," to the Chain Locker punishments, to... Well, you get the idea.

You might as well drink it all in, and begin to get over the shock.

Hubbard may have wanted to be the "center of the universe," but he wasn't, and that's actually a good thing.

As for "exteriorization," or "out of body experience," there's a huge amount of material on the subject, and much of it predates the existence of Scientology.

There is no need to be depressed. It's just getting interesting.

http://www.psywww.com/asc/obe.html

http://dmoz.org/Society/Paranormal/Out_of_Body

http://www.outofthebody.com

http://web-us.com/oobe/oobe.htm

http://www.bestwebbuys.com/Out_of_Body_Adventures-ISBN_9780809245604.html?isrc=b-search

http://www.outofbody.co.uk

 

[RolandRB]

Before we start dating seriously, I need to tell you some things -

I have two brains and three eyes.

You're only going to like one of the brains, and as for the third eye - well, in public, I usually keep that covered with a hat.

OK -- bugger off back to your home planet, then.

 

[Veda]

Before we start dating seriously, I need to tell you some things -

I have two brains and three eyes.

You're only going to like one of the brains, and as for the third eye - well, in public, I usually keep that covered with a hat.

OK -- bugger off back to your home planet, then.

Oh, no. I knew it would end this way. Sigh.

Was it the extra brain or was it the third eye that did it?

 

[RolandRB]

Oh, no. I knew it would end this way. Sigh.

Was it the extra brain or was it the third eye that did it?

Both. Now climb back in your flying saucer and eff off out of it!!!! :mad:

 

[beyond_horizons]

You're only going to like one of the brains, and as for the third eye - well, in public, I usually keep that covered with a hat.

One of the many functions of the third eye is that it acts as a sketch pad.

As far as goals and life skills, what a person places on it or what has been placed there by others is the blueprint for how ones external reality is intended to evolve. If what is seen with the real world eyes does not match what is sketched on the pad, the individual will either engage in changing activities and environment to that which is sketched, or the individual will adjust the sketch more in line with the environment. The more the divergence between the internal and external imagery the greater the stress factor.

In this 21century, It's a positive iterative process in so far as highly successful corporate strategic teaming activities, especially when many disciplines are present in the matrix, involve off site activities to break down cultural, technical and other barriers to get at a shared vision.

The process doesn't involve negitive processing such as overboarding, lies shore stories, coersion, to force a change on the sketch pad image.

Best perspective on the various functions of that third eye was while attending a two week Pacific Institute program with home work and a 6 month check up sponsored by our company.

http://www.pac-inst.com/

Life is good!

 

[beyond_horizons]

Did you ever see LRH acting decent at all?

Didn't he order orgs to purchase 'Cheese Balls' during his birthday event? Or perhaps it was one of the more traditional Holidays?

 

[Sharone Stainforth]

O r a fete at three!