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Staff conditions, and What happens to the old staff?

XGO

Patron
In allot of Western countries of the world, the government or company will take care of their existing, and "good old" workers when they retire. And there are usually benefits connected with working for a company... i.e. medical, dental, optical (glasses), retirement account contributions, retirement benefits through a pension or social security, raises, bonuses for good performance, stock options, uniform, company gym, etc.

Please pardon me if I am wrong, because my data in this area is dated.

Part of my consternation and frustration with the CofS is that they did (do?) not take care of the staff during their "internment" and when they get old.
This especially applies to SO staff.

When I was in, there was no "staff" money for anything, even uniforms (I believe this has changed?). I remember getting some extra money from a family member, and going out to buy some new pants and shoes. My coworkers were impressed with my new appearance.

When I was in, almost nobody went to the dentist or doctor, because they couldn't pay the bill (though I suppose now you can go to an Emergency room and they must treat you, per the existing laws on this). Also, you don't have time to take care of your body (except a quick shower), because your time is nearly 100% consumed from work/study. I only recall one staff having a baby (because her husband had a rich family, and they could pay the bills).

I went on a mission to (blank) once. While there, I recall being very famished, as a result of having little $$ for food, I recall buying an egg from a "roach coach" (mobile kitchen built into a van), and I enjoyed it like it was a filet steak dinner. It was delicious and satisfying, as I was literally starving. Later,
when one of my "wog" friends saw me, he said I looked very gaunt, and "like a prisoner." Come to think of it, I don't recall many fat SO members... maybe
that is one benefit from being inside? :whistling:

Good food and sleep are VERY important to health, especially in your "later years."

Please see: http://www.sleep-deprivation.com/articles/effects-of-sleep-deprivation/index.php

The Effects of Sleep Deprivation

Sleep deprivation can have serious effects on your health in the form of physical and mental impairments. Inadequate rest impairs our ability to think, to
handle stress, to maintain a healthy immune system and to moderate our emotions. In fact, sleep is so important to our overall health that total sleep
deprivation has been proven to be fatal: lab rats denied the chance to rest die within two to three weeks.

Without adequate rest, the brain's ability to function quickly deteriorates. The brain works harder to counteract sleep deprivation effects, but operates
less effectively: concentration levels drop, and memory becomes impaired.

Similarly, the brain's ability to problem solve is greatly impaired. Decision-making abilities are compromised, and the brain falls into rigid thought
patterns that make it difficult to generate new problem-solving ideas. Insufficient rest can also cause people to have hallucinations. Other typical
effects of sleep deprivation include:

* depression
* heart disease
* hypertension
* irritability
* slower reaction times
* slurred speech
* tremors
* diabetes

I read one thread on this site, wherein the poster wrote about doing all-nighters at Int. to meet a deadline, sometimes for many days at a time. He spoke of getting only 2-3 hours of sleep per night. How can this benefit production, if the staff are groggy and cannot think/work clearly? (can you say "overt product makers?")

The only SO staff that had a car had it before they joined, or had outside resources from someone/somewhere. I remember getting a ride to the org from one of the execs that had a BMW... I remember him opening the sunroof, and I was awed by his "wealth."

If there are billions in the CofS bank accounts (and I believe there are), which could be used to take care of the staff, this brings two thoughts to my mind:
1) the church is "out exchange" with it's staff, and 2) these malconditions are actually suppressing the health and well being (AND PRODUCTIVITY) of the
staff. The staff need good rest for better performance and health.

Seemingly the SO Uses staff until they are spent, and then offloads them? What happens to an old staff member when they can no longer work, and should retire?

Can any of you comment on the current conditions, and what happens to old staff? Please give us your opinions.

P.S. you guys remember "time machine" orders?

TM: Within one month DM and senior management are ordered to take care of ALL of the staff basic needs. This includes good salary, accommodations, food, medical, dental, good work environment (read: no unreasonable pressure) uniforms, etc. The staff benefits should also include personal time of 2 hours per day, 8 hours "sleep time," and enough time (1 day per week) for good R&R.
These benefits are unconditional (not subject to staff members "condition).

Older staff who need to retire are to be given assistance and enough money to relocate to somewhere safe. They are to be given enough of a pension to cover their basic medical, housing, and financial necessities.

The RPF is to be disbanded and eradicated... never to return.

Perhaps this order is contrary to LRH policy, but it is "the greatest good, for the greatest number of dynamics." Additionally, these (bad) LRH policies are
getting in the way of productivity.
 

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
Great post, XGO.

You'd think with all the money, they'd take better care of their staff. I guess they are too busy buying up property. But if they have money to buy property, why are there those $1000 dinners to fund an Ideal Org?

The short time that my daughter was in the SO, I threatened the Staff Section Officer - "either get my daughter to a doctor, as promised, or I'm taking her home until she is well". The next day when I arrived, she was just returning from the doctor with antibiotics. Amazingly, she had the same illness when she lived with me, I got her well in about 3 days with NO antibiotics. She'd been sick for about 10 days when I found out she was sick.
 

Lynn Fountain Campbell

Silver Meritorious Patron
In allot of Western countries of the world, the government or company will take care of their existing, and "good old" workers when they retire. And there are usually benefits connected with working for a company... i.e. medical, dental, optical (glasses), retirement account contributions, retirement benefits through a pension or social security, raises, bonuses for good performance, stock options, uniform, company gym, etc.

Please pardon me if I am wrong, because my data in this area is dated.

Part of my consternation and frustration with the CofS is that they did (do?) not take care of the staff during their "internment" and when they get old.
This especially applies to SO staff.

When I was in, there was no "staff" money for anything, even uniforms (I believe this has changed?). I remember getting some extra money from a family member, and going out to buy some new pants and shoes. My coworkers were impressed with my new appearance.

When I was in, almost nobody went to the dentist or doctor, because they couldn't pay the bill (though I suppose now you can go to an Emergency room and they must treat you, per the existing laws on this). Also, you don't have time to take care of your body (except a quick shower), because your time is nearly 100% consumed from work/study. I only recall one staff having a baby (because her husband had a rich family, and they could pay the bills).

I went on a mission to (blank) once. While there, I recall being very famished, as a result of having little $$ for food, I recall buying an egg from a "roach coach" (mobile kitchen built into a van), and I enjoyed it like it was a filet steak dinner. It was delicious and satisfying, as I was literally starving. Later,
when one of my "wog" friends saw me, he said I looked very gaunt, and "like a prisoner." Come to think of it, I don't recall many fat SO members... maybe
that is one benefit from being inside? :whistling:

Good food and sleep are VERY important to health, especially in your "later years."

Please see: http://www.sleep-deprivation.com/articles/effects-of-sleep-deprivation/index.php

The Effects of Sleep Deprivation

Sleep deprivation can have serious effects on your health in the form of physical and mental impairments. Inadequate rest impairs our ability to think, to
handle stress, to maintain a healthy immune system and to moderate our emotions. In fact, sleep is so important to our overall health that total sleep
deprivation has been proven to be fatal: lab rats denied the chance to rest die within two to three weeks.

Without adequate rest, the brain's ability to function quickly deteriorates. The brain works harder to counteract sleep deprivation effects, but operates
less effectively: concentration levels drop, and memory becomes impaired.

Similarly, the brain's ability to problem solve is greatly impaired. Decision-making abilities are compromised, and the brain falls into rigid thought
patterns that make it difficult to generate new problem-solving ideas. Insufficient rest can also cause people to have hallucinations. Other typical
effects of sleep deprivation include:

* depression
* heart disease
* hypertension
* irritability
* slower reaction times
* slurred speech
* tremors
* diabetes

I read one thread on this site, wherein the poster wrote about doing all-nighters at Int. to meet a deadline, sometimes for many days at a time. He spoke of getting only 2-3 hours of sleep per night. How can this benefit production, if the staff are groggy and cannot think/work clearly? (can you say "overt product makers?")

The only SO staff that had a car had it before they joined, or had outside resources from someone/somewhere. I remember getting a ride to the org from one of the execs that had a BMW... I remember him opening the sunroof, and I was awed by his "wealth."

If there are billions in the CofS bank accounts (and I believe there are), which could be used to take care of the staff, this brings two thoughts to my mind:
1) the church is "out exchange" with it's staff, and 2) these malconditions are actually suppressing the health and well being (AND PRODUCTIVITY) of the
staff. The staff need good rest for better performance and health.

Seemingly the SO Uses staff until they are spent, and then offloads them? What happens to an old staff member when they can no longer work, and should retire?

Can any of you comment on the current conditions, and what happens to old staff? Please give us your opinions.

P.S. you guys remember "time machine" orders?

TM: Within one month DM and senior management are ordered to take care of ALL of the staff basic needs. This includes good salary, accommodations, food, medical, dental, good work environment (read: no unreasonable pressure) uniforms, etc. The staff benefits should also include personal time of 2 hours per day, 8 hours "sleep time," and enough time (1 day per week) for good R&R.
These benefits are unconditional (not subject to staff members "condition).

Older staff who need to retire are to be given assistance and enough money to relocate to somewhere safe. They are to be given enough of a pension to cover their basic medical, housing, and financial necessities.

The RPF is to be disbanded and eradicated... never to return.

Perhaps this order is contrary to LRH policy, but it is "the greatest good, for the greatest number of dynamics." Additionally, these (bad) LRH policies are
getting in the way of productivity.

This is another reason they are doomed. Even if they weren't brainwashed, the sleep-deprivation alone would render them unable to think through what needed to be done to get themselves out of the situation they are now in.

Besides, I don't think "bright ideas" are encouraged any more. They have to robotically "wait for orders." Which probably aren't coming. From the way DM is reported to have looked at the event, he's probably losing sleep too, from worrying about Anonymous. So he's in no shape to use his standard micro-management tech to "bypass and handle."

Lynn
 
I have one friend, Toby Cantine, who was routed out because of the big C, and another who had doctor treatment and was cured of the big C. There isn't, for me, a stock reply.
 

nowout

Patron with Honors
An older couple, Arthur and Thelma Cusworth, who were working for years at Qual Gold and originally from the UK got sent back to St Hill as they could get free health care from the government. They pretty much stayed at the Berthing facilities there until they died.
 

duddins

Patron Meritorious
This particular thread along with the PAC RPF sets my blood aboilin......

calm down now duddins,,,1,2,3,4,5,6.......

The idea of allowing anything bad to happen to people that are not able to care for themselves is very upsetting to me.

It hits a terrible nerve for me because aside from having a career and being a mom, I have been a caregiver to my mother for years now. She has Parkinson's and cannot do many things for herself. Through her I speak with and know other seniors and so am aware of many of their struggles.

I know that in the US we do not have Socialized medicine like in the UK.

I truly hope that the PAC RPF has not become a life sentence for the SO elderly. By the looks of it, many have been there for the better part of a decade.

Makes me sick.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Hmmmm. I've heard that old ex SO are treated reasonably well in the UK.
I have no details other than a couple or reports. Nor do I know what reasonably well means.

I do know from reliable sources that in the US, old SO members are shipped off to retirement homes in Florida. I have no idea of what health services they may recieve.

What is an abomination is that they are not allowed meters and materials.
They must not say they are offloaded SO. If I recall correctly they are asked
to " end cycle".

This is the usual current COS agenda. Reverse humanity.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Hmmmm. I've heard that old ex SO are treated reasonably well in the UK.
I have no details other than a couple or reports. Nor do I know what reasonably well means.

I do know from reliable sources that in the US, old SO members are shipped off to retirement homes in Florida. I have no idea of what health services they may recieve.

What is an abomination is that they are not allowed meters and materials.
They must not say they are offloaded SO. If I recall correctly they are asked
to " end cycle".

This is the usual current COS agenda. Reverse humanity.

That is disgusting. I hope more info on this comes to light!
 

DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
But before they are asked to drop their body, they make them work until they fall off the bones, even if it is working as an examiner (you can sit in a chair all day doing that). :faceslap:

Back in 1981 I was public at flag (I know, I'm sorry!) and remember talking to Nancy Dronsika about what was going to happen. She and other elderly people were trying to form an "Elders Org". I don't know what ever came of that.

It was becoming a problem even then.

DS
 
Old people - their job is their life. When the evolution started at Gold to send the older people away - to Flag, back to Australia etc. they were sad, and relieved at the same time. They had to march and run the same way - unless they specifically asked not to. And some of them were too proud.

Even if they had a certain schedule - going home in the evening instead of at night, during evoluions they were made to stay. It was sad as every knew they shouldn't, but still happened. And if they left it was like "it's only their body, sure they could handle it for ONE night.."
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Even if they had a certain schedule - going home in the evening instead of at night, during evoluions they were made to stay. It was sad as every knew they shouldn't, but still happened. And if they left it was like "it's only their body, sure they could handle it for ONE night.."

Yes, a never ending night....
 

SomeGuy

Patron Meritorious
Is end of cycle something openly encouraged when some ones body gives out?

I know some one some where posted some policy letter about it, just curious if that's something openly encouraged.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Is end of cycle something openly encouraged when some ones body gives out?

I know some one some where posted some policy letter about it, just curious if that's something openly encouraged.

What PL? I don't recall one.

I know that if I were still in the SO and in that mindset and not able to contribute any more I would be acutely embarrassed at it and want to change the situation. Fully believing that death is temporary etc. makes it relatively easy (in theory). Even now, if my state were to degenerate to the point that I considered my "exchange was out" (long term, not merely a short-term illness or condition), I would want out of the mortal clay. :)

Paul
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Is end of cycle something openly encouraged when some ones body gives out?

I know some one some where posted some policy letter about it, just curious if that's something openly encouraged.

Not 'openly'. Care is taken not to let the 'wogs', or, even most 'public' Scientologists see, and, the 'policy' is never stated openly. But, most know it's there, and, there are numerous credible stories of people being 'privately' encouraged to 'try again'.

Zinj
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire

I know of no issued policy, Zinj. Fishman is not a credible witness, to put it mildly. I can believe that Mithoff made such a statement. I saw a C/S from the Snr C/S Int Office with items to make it easier for someone to make the transition (it included some sensible items and also silly things like listening to the Hubbard fairy tape 'Between Lives Implants'), but it did not include processes to hasten the event.

That it happened a few times does not mean that in each instance someone would callously order an SO Member past his or her use-by date to stop taking up needed resources and move along now. Probably more for PR reasons than humanitarian ones, though.

Paul
 
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SomeGuy

Patron Meritorious
What PL? I don't recall one.

I know that if I were still in the SO and in that mindset and not able to contribute any more I would be acutely embarrassed at it and want to change the situation. Fully believing that death is temporary etc. makes it relatively easy (in theory). Even now, if my state were to degenerate to the point that I considered my "exchange was out" (long term, not merely a short-term illness or condition), I would want out of the mortal clay. :)

Paul


I'm trying to find it for you Paul, it requires me remembering where I saw it and then figuring out which post it was on but it was a scanned sheet with End of cycle as a PL. Might take me a bit and I could be misremembering (completely possible).
 
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