Stages of Leaving Scientology


BY GOD I THINK I'VE GOT IT :dieslaughing:

I already know how to meditate. Or were you referring to the yin/yang part? Oh shit, do I dare try to respond to Pixie on same one. Later....

Anyway, thank to you Pixie too.

:dieslaughing: :dieslaughing: :dieslaughing:


:happydance: Well done to you!!! :happydance: I knew you could do it!! :yes: :thumbsup:


New Member
Hey, niceely put. I am at point 9 now, after 10 years since leaving, and I feel so good about finally having arrived. I want to do something beyond picketing. Please contact me if you have any good ideas.

:-] moshek


Yeah, it's tricky. It requires a whole different set of mental and physical skills to move the cursor over to the bottom right instead of the bottom left. It's a yin/yang thing. Some people never get the hang of it. I hear meditation sometimes works. There are some books you can get at the library on it--I'll see if I can dig up the titles for you.

If you like I'll make a YouTube video showing how to do it, like I did with the multiquotes. I'll do it after the "How to Make Friends Online, Excepting Pixie" one. :)


Paul I said 'with respect'! My explanation was way simpler than yours anyway! :yes: Honestly, I just can't win with you can I? You haven't had a good spanking this week yet, is that what's wrong? :confused2:


Hey, niceely put. I am at point 9 now, after 10 years since leaving, and I feel so good about finally having arrived. I want to do something beyond picketing. Please contact me if you have any good ideas.

:-] moshek

Welcome moshek, nice name! :welcome2: Looking forward to hearing more form you and I'm glad you're here to join in the fun. :yes: It's not all serious, and it doesn't have to be so.. enjoy! :thumbsup:


Interesting thread with a lot of good posts! It is only recently that I discovered this message board, and reading it has been more than theraputic! Thanks to all.
I have a different reality to many of you though, on "Leaving the Church".
I was fortunate enough, to not be one who spent lots of time and money going up the auditing side of the bridge (I'm very thankful I didn't start OT VII). I started my tech training early on, I was on staff for many years. and I was active in the field.

- As a new Scientologist, I did get that shock, when I experienced gross admin violations. Didn't get it! From my low position, I wrote it up locally, but it still didn't get attention and it didn't get fixed.
- At the time of the mission holders conference, and when Mayo and Franks were kicked out, I thought/hoped that the crap, must have originated from them, and that things would begin to settle.
- After our 83 CMO mission, I was shell shocked. But after reports to Int management, and encouraging responses to several of us, from Int Managenment, I (along with others) were satisfied that the suppressive management we copped at the time, was acknowledged as being "off source" and would be handled. At that point though, I learned that sadly under such suppressive pressure, most would succumb, go pts, and either take on the sp valence to survive, or hide. Also, that I couldn't trust anyone - or that those one could trust, were few.
- In the following years, I scraped by. The red on white kept changing, and the green on white didn't seem to count. I queried and reported. Orders started to take precedence over tech/policy. I did get the odd positive response to write ups, and some things did change, but mostly it wasn't good.
- LRH died. My faith in him and management diminished further. My think at the time - "How could he causatively die when things were so screwed up? He couldn't have! Does management think we are stupid? They've given us another shore story. I wish they'd tell us the truth. Truth indicates and blows charge, don't they get that?". A few of us started to have some serious doubts. When the Broekers got turfed and the vacuum of data wasn't filled, I sent a comm to DM re my concerns/consids on the issue, and asked for data. I never heard back, but I was RB'ed/interviewed and assigned a condition at the time.
- After that, for a while I went into hiding, but then I changed my mind, and decided to give it another crack. I thought if I could get into a position of power either off staff or on (with others of like or similar mind), we could make a difference (silly me!).
- Got in trouble lots. Kept fighting, and kept struggling on. It was a lonely, hard time, on staff and in the field, but what we were doing/delivering, was making a difference to individuals. It was a game I still wanted to play. I saw and copped the supression from senior SO terminals, and those complying with their orders, or in their valence. I thought the problem was in ANZO, and that Int Management didn't know how bad it was down here. We had a couple of real doozies here, that were getting away with some pretty wild stuff. I blamed them for what was going on (not Int Mgt). What they were doing was so obvious, a few of us thought that they'd have to be found out and labelled sooner or later. We lived in hope. Of course we were wrong.
-Golden age of tech came out, and that burnt me on the bridge, DM and Int management. I argued with friends on various technical points, but it fell on deaf ears most of the time. I got sent to Ethics for being noisy on the subject, then to cramming so I'd see the error of my ways. I didn't change my mind, but I shut up and eventually they gave up on handling me on the subject.
I was pretty sad by this time, but persisted in the "hope", that just like there was the takeover in 82, there'd be another, and things would be straightened out. It wasn't.
- A few of us took a hard beating, at the time of an RTC Mission in ANZO, in 97. These missionaires were shockers. They were fired off to this mission directly by DM. Many staff, crew, and field staff members or ex staff were being put through the grinder. I made the mistake (or not), after some months in ethics, of voicing my consids and disagreements on the general op basis in orgs, the general think, the use of the tech to "make wrong", etc , etc, etc. I also stated that staff and crew were coward in regard to querying orders, that they were in fear, and were allowing RTC orders to negate/overide LRH tech. At that point I was dead! Went through some even worse gruelling stuff, and it was obvious I could no longer be part of that group. I had to get out after that and I did.
- I felt beaten, and I went into hiding. I was extrememly lonely for a long time. I felt deserted and betrayed even though I had many active comm lines, and wasn't disconnected at all.
- Years went by, and I came out of it. Through comm lines and connections, I heard what was still going on in the orgs, and it appeared to be getting worse.
-With my valued Scio comm lines dropping drastically over the years, with our livelihood less at stake, and with the basics evolution which really pissed me off (it was obviously a scam, and we were back on "every" call-in list all of a sudden) - I cut a lot of ties. I started to get very overt. My BPC overided my concern regarding keeping my PR in and I started calling a spade a spade. I got away with it in ANZO, but when the American SO terminals tried to pull rank on me (when I got agro on some stuffed eval or inval), my conviction became stronger. It was sad to see that so many SO crew and staff were forwarding such bullshit "lines" (about the basics), and not waking up to it, when the policy/tech that the evolution violated, was pointed out to them. Of all the evolutions I've seen over the last 30 years, this topped the lot! We've been off-lines and not into the org for years, but we copped around 200 phone calls in the first two weeks after the event. Because we didn't buy the books, the calls went on for weeks. This burnt the whole family!
- Recently, after all the anon stuff and press on Scn, I started looking up stuff on the net. I was amazed. In my naivity I had no idea there were networks out there. No idea, that so many had gone through the same stuff, and thought the same. The stuff on LRH and DM was a real eye opener and made many pennies drop. Some of the stories that I pulled strings on, and took on board, knocked me around a bit, and I certainly took on a new viewpoint. Don't know what I'm going to do yet - am still working that one out.
- However, despite all that, and regardless of what LRH was, what his intentions were, what his plan might have been, how psycho he may have been, and despite my opinions about the man - I know there is a body of tech (that when not twisted or just quoted), when known and applied - can and has made a hell of a difference. No way would I throw it away or discard it. I've applied it to life, as a parent, to work, field situations, businesses, those in trouble, etc, etc.- and it has made a positive difference.
- I don't feel I've been sucked in and wasted 20 or 30 years of my life. Yes, I was sucked in on stuff, and I had "faith/hope" when I shouldn't have, and I went on hoping for too long - but by the same token, throughout that time, I was certainly aware of what was going on in my area, and I didn't buy into or "accept" the game that the SO were pushing. During my active time in Scn, I made gains (case and knowledge and application) and contributed to others doing the same, through applying tech and policy. I'll never negate that, or not use what I know.
- Meanwhile, while I'm still getting org calls, and on the occasion when I get caught by "picking up", on an unidentified call, I'll be overt and throw the book at them, and tell them to wake up. I still care for some people still working in the orgs. I don't and won't wrong target them. However, in many cases, when some jerk forwards some robot line and tries to invalidate me, I'll let loose.

I know this post won't go down well with some, and some of you will think I'm still sucked in. So be it! I have a different history than most, and I know what I know.


Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Your post is fine, and, welcome to the board.

I won't agree with some of your conclusions, nor will some others, but, they're your conclusions, and, at worst, we'll end up disagreeing about them.

And *this* is the most essential difference between Scientology and Not-Scientology :)



Wow SNC!! That was some story!! And you are very welcome to this forum. :welcome2: This board really is full of diverse people with all sorts of different opinions. It is for the most part a recovery board where we can all share our experiences good bad and indifferent.

When I came to this forum in the beginning, a few months ago, I was in a real mess, a real mess, and I couldn't handle anyone even talking about $cientology, it used to drive me insane, and I would turn into this.. :storm: :furious: :hissyfit: :splat: and I also did a lot of this.. :bigcry:

However, with much posting, a lot of help from some wonderful people here, I have learned to relax and see that another's opinion of $cientology is not going to hurt me, it's only anothers opinion, and they are more than entitled to this. In real life I could never care less what anyone thought about anything, never felt it was any of my business, however because I had been so hurt and so screwed over, as many have, it just affected me like that and being given the chance to talk about it here brought all the old emotions up.

I feel that everyone here is on different levels, we are after all very unique and I have learned to respect that which is much more healthy and enlightening. So what I'm saying is that if someone isn't happy with anything you said, don't take it personaly. This was a very interesting story SNC and I very much look forward to reading more from you. :yes:


Gold Meritorious Patron
A warm welcome SNC. :)

Thanks for sharing so honestly. You actually raise an interesting point - to not negate the good stuff that you got from your time/experiences in scientology. Because of my intense anger (which has abated greatly since joining this board :) ) I tended to throw any babies I had out with the bath water. But now things are calming down I am re-assessing things and starting to see some good stuff I got from scientology. I will never re-join the group, never, but I am more at peace & able to have a more balanced view of it all.

You mention the '97 RTC mission in ANZO. Though I was not closely connected to this I know someone who was a casualty of that madness. Their story is almost incomprehensible as the mission was like a tornado, creating a lot of destruction. Maybe one day my friend will find the strength to tell her story but for now she is trying to live her life.

Lovely to have you here! :)


Silver Meritorious Patron
Thanks for that great write up scio not cultist.

Personally I have no problem with what you wrote, or the fact that you wrote it. Sure I have a different opinion with regards the tech, but that's neither here nor there! It's one thing to express an opinion, it's another to beat people around the head with it. You were expressing an opinion.

And I would love to hear more of your story.



Patron with Honors
Great post SNC! :yes:

And welcome, I just started posted as well.

I think you fit right in, we all have such different stories to tell. One of the reasons I took so long to post is that I just was not very angry about all of it. I too think there is some stuff to pull out of SCN. People have wins, but I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that they are focusing on something specific and they get what they expect. What I love is that so much of those "wins" are free and available, without the ethics and debt, outside SCN!

Again welcome,

ThisIsIt :thumbsup:

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Interesting thread with a lot of good posts! It is only recently that I discovered this message board, and reading it has been more than theraputic! Thanks to all.
I have a different reality to many of you though, on "Leaving the Church".
I was fortunate enough, to not be one who spent lots of time and money going up the auditing side of the bridge (I'm very thankful I didn't start OT VII). I started my tech training early on, I was on staff for many years. and I was active in the field.

Welcome to another ANZOite! :thumbsup:

I also thought the insanity was just here and tried to get things corrected for such a long time. I wasted years doing that. :) In hindsight though, it wasn't wasted time really. It allowed me to sort out my own thoughts and identify what was important to me, and that's a good thing.

I look forward to hearing more of your story.


Rogue male

I have enjoyed your posts and feel a lot in common with you. I TOTALLY duplicate your viewpoint and I feel what I think your pain is. My track is very similar to yours. I think the more you read the more you will "cull" down the tech into the bits you will find useful. I do believe you will come to throw out a lot.

I recommend the thread "pandoras box" on this message board. It helped me sort out what the tech "is". As a trained auditor I was left floundering when I got to the point where you are now at.

I really have come to feel a kinship on this board and see so many, like me trying to re-interpret their time in the cult, with their new found skills in critical thinking. But it is a bitter pill to swallow, to see the group for what it is. I wish you all the best



Hi Feral,

Thanks for your comm. I appreciate your help flow.
I have read pandora's box, and found it helpful. However, you believing I'll come to throw out a lot of the tech, is an eval that I disagree with.

I was highly trained on red and white and green on white, and have had much experience administering the tech (sorry I can't give specifics - too risky - I have to maintain my anonimity to avoid adverse effects on a flow three (others to others). Throughout my training, I applied the datum LRH gave re "his opinion vs the tech" - Think what you like re his opinions, but know and apply the tech.

I wasn't a dummy who just took it all on board. I noticed LRH's ego, many of his outpoints, and during the hundreds of tapes I listened to, I heard many instances of him not practising what he preached. I had to sort out the egocentric opinions from the tech theory and what should be applied. I knew LRH was human, very early on, but that wasn't a problem to me.
I never held LRH as some kind of deity. I've been KR'd on more than one occasion for not applauding him at muster or events (but then responded with a ref from LRH, describing such a practice as being abberative).

99% of the staff, crew and field that I knew, weren't trained. They were either too busy do hatting cycles, production, or "going up the bridge" - OT3 & 4, OT5, then OT6 & 7. All the basic stuff, the stuff for life and livingness, seemed to go by the board. The stuff in the Mgt series and the rest of the green vols; the stuff in the red vols, plus the special series; the stuff in the tapes - was far from known or applied. Simple basics weren't known, or at least weren't known with enough certainty in order to KSW on the issue.

FOR EXAMPLE: there's a mountain of tech on o/ws, yet it's been twisted beyond belief with verbal lines, used to make wrong or supress. O/W tech is only about the individual, HIS responsibility level, HIS reach, and HIS survival. It's got absolutely nothing to do with the group, crimes or transgressions against the group (per all the theory it certainly hasn't!). Yet evidently, per the "think" of most, it has. This tech has been twisted by LRH, DM, Execs or whoever, then forwarded and used to dominate. This twisted version has become the "tech". It's certainly not the tech that I learnt and use, nor the tech I am referring to.

Anything can be twisted (as the tech has been). A good person can be made to look bad. A very bad situation can be made to look good. One can never believe what they simply hear or read. And, there's policy covering that - Data series 2, section on illogic, giving examples of omitting facts, changing sequence of events, dropping out time, adding falsehoods and altering imortance - which gives an entirely false concept of the scenario. We have had staff, crew, and public, whose main knowledge of the tech and policy was the twisted verbal version they've had rammed down their throats (covertly and overtly for years).

I certainly don't have faith in the OT levels, but by the same token, it never ceased to amaze me how so many just continued going on up the auditing side of the bridge, when in the "booming an org through training" policy, it says that one will peg at the point of his training level.

You say to me that as I read more, I will cull the tech and maybe throw out a lot. Are you talking about the actual tech, or the twisted version of it, rampant within the ranks?

Have a look at your own scenario. Maybe after time, when you chill out a bit, you'll take back some of the tech, that you have thrown away.

I do understand your scenario. While we may have a mutual understanding, your scenario is different to mine. Standing back and being objective is always good. The different viewpoints from the different perspectives all have validity to some extent.

I'm a cranky bastard tonight. Sorry if my comm is offensive. I have looked at your posts, and I know you are a good bloke. I am just short wicked when it comes to the huge pendulum swings (that I see all to often within the wider ranks), and indications (like I had during the endless cramming and ethics), that if I "kept going" I'd change my mind. I can and do change my viewpoint and my mind, but I am not stupid. I will always know what I know, and be my own council.



Well said.. :clap: and it's ok to be a cranky bastard, and understandable when one's talking about the so called 'tech'. I agree too with what you said about the o/w write ups, to this day, just thinking about them makes me feel like so.. :puke2:

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron

Greetings and welcome scio not cultist!

You did not sound at all "cranky" to me and your level of literacy speaks well
not only for you personally, but also for anyone who might have helped!

What splendid discussions we all shall have. :happydance:


Hi EP,

Sorry, don't get what you mean by "...anyone who might have helped".

Can you please clarify? Thanks