Stages of Leaving Scientology

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Answer to ?...

Dear SNC (OK to use that "calling name"?)

Nice to hear back from you!

The concept was sorta to say that you appear to have been well educated and most probably a diligent pupil - and to give kudos to such individuals, groups or organizations that contributed to your knowledge, skills and abilities. Your prose is excellent; fully descriptive, with no wasted words.

Recognizing the above is not very well constructed, I hope it answers your query.

Ask me anything you like and I'll have a shot at it. Right now, in this brief window of time, I have the freedom to spend some time at this, although sometimes sporadically. Don't take a lack of immediate response as comm-lag, please.
 

Feral

Rogue male
FOR EXAMPLE: there's a mountain of tech on o/ws, yet it's been twisted beyond belief with verbal lines, used to make wrong or supress. O/W tech is only about the individual, HIS responsibility level, HIS reach, and HIS survival. It's got absolutely nothing to do with the group, crimes or transgressions against the group (per all the theory it certainly hasn't!). Yet evidently, per the "think" of most, it has. This tech has been twisted by LRH, DM, Execs or whoever, then forwarded and used to dominate. This twisted version has become the "tech". It's certainly not the tech that I learnt and use, nor the tech I am referring to.

Dear Not so cranky bastard,

When I evalled you may come to throw some tech out the above was one of the things I was thinking of. I think we may be saying the same thing in a different way, I mean the twists on the basic laws, you seem to be ahead of the game when, as it appears to me you do not refer to those parts as TECH. You would be unique among Scios in that regard I think.

It seems you already have chucked a lot of the garbage. I am only talking about the twisted version, a lot of it twisted by the man himself, in his effort to dominate. I do not know if I need to chill and take back any tech that I have thrown away. Right now I am able with a free heart to look at the tech that was forced on us as SOURCE and infallable with my new found critical thinking skills, I will be throwing out for a while. I too am trained, obviously, not as highly as you, but there is a lot of sifting to do still.

I am sorry if I reminded you of those cramming cycles where we were all coerced to see things in the latest and greatest DM way, and if I inadvertantly lit your wick, I am not trying to change your mind. I am out of the group now and am not trying to force a viewpoint down your throat.

As an aside, one of the big gains I got when I got out of the cult was an ability to tolerate opposing viewpoints. It happened when I decided KSW 1 was a mind fuck;:unsure: "I am the only source, hammer out of exsistance incorrect (read; other) technology" When I took that PL on board I got into a mindset that opposing tech was dangerous and threatened the future of every man woman and child, so my tolerance of any other interpretation of tech or life or, well, anything would agitate me. I was glad to throw that bit of "tech' out.
 
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Andrew

Patron with Honors
It happened when I decided KSW 1 was a mind fuck;:unsure: "I am the only source, hammer out of exsistance incorrect (read; other) technology" When I took that PL on board I got into a mindset that opposing tech was dangerous and threatened the future of every man woman and child, so my tolerance of any other interpretation, well, anything would agitate me. I was glad to throw that bit of "tech' out.

Amen.

This has my vote for the most damaging aspect of Scn teachings that a person can adopt.

In an era where racism, sexism, etc is progressively being opposed the CoS is actively promoting hatred, intolerance and discrimination based on religion and philosophy.

The hypocrisy in using "Freedom of Religion" as a defence while actively installing religious bigotry within it's followers would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.
 

Carmel

Crusader
Hi EP and Feral,

Thanks for your comms. Sorry about the delay in my reply. I have fairly little time, to be on this site. I have crammed in some reading, have posted something, and then I'm gone. Generally, I can't stick around on the site (although I'd certainly love to - I want to read more of what's in there).

EP,
Hey, no worries on the name (it's not mine anyway).

Thanks for filling me in. I thought that may have been it, but wasn't sure. Thanks for the compliment. However, I find it odd, when for years my spouse had to constantly correct me on anything I wrote (maths was my only strength at school before I dropped out). Prior to Scn, I had had a couple of special mentors. Early on in Scn in Sydney, we had a couple of very fine, wise, capable individuals, who wouldn't take crap from anyone. They were a good influence, and a huge influence to those who they took under their wing.
I love them, and will never forget them.

I'm still kicking myself today for being such a dumb fuck, and not "googling", on Scientology before I did, to get what I have recently, from the likes of this site. What a help it's been! It wasn't till last year, when I needed info on something urgently, and my kids weren't around to find it for me, that I was forced to find it myself, and to work out how to use "ggogle". At that point I learned that ya just had to type in a word and push "search". Duhhh! (Computors and I, have had trouble being friends for a long time)

Feral,
Hey, it seems we are on the same page in regard to some issues. I'm glad you wrote back.
I can handle opposing viewpoints to my own, and disagreements about my actions, and I appreciate your input. Rightly or wrongly though, I see red (and will always buck) when I cop the invalidation that my viewpoint or perspective, is wrong and/or needs correction. When I chill out from 30 years of battling, it might not be such a problem (I haven't chilled out yet).
I get what you said re KSW 1. I can appreciate what you went through with that, and can see why you did, given parts in that policy! For me though, KSW's main message was - if you are auditing someone, follow procedures, and if you're running an org, follow policy, don't deviate from tech and policy when you're wearing a hat within the organization. From that perspective, I believe that if staff, crew, and field had KSW'd points 1 to 10, instead of going into bank agreement (as described in the same policy), we wouldn't have had the atrocities we've had, and that we still have today.
All is good this end, hope it's fine at yours too. Cheers!
 

Feral

Rogue male
SNC,

Well, I am very glad to read your post, I was thinking about it, and what you might say, all day actually. So thanks for that. I wish I had taken that view of KSW, but as "he" said THIS IS NOT OPEN TO INTERPRETATION" :angry: so after being yelled at on paper I did not dare.:no:

I am anon on this board, for now, but I am writing my story and an excerpt, a revelation I had, while purging myself of my history in SCN could belong on this thread so I will add it, this discussion also helped me gain this insight about myself. I have also, at some risk to myself been quite vocal about my position on the church, call it community work, in doing that I ran into something, and it could well be what all "exes" run into when talking to Scilons in the church;

Excerpt;
Something I have noticed is that people that had major difficulties handled in scientology later cling to the tech after ending their affinity with the church as it was the stable data that ended a long term confusion. So it was for me; Scientology taught me to read, scarily enough, it was on the student hat course. I cleared almost every third word on that course. But that gave me an unshakable certainty, that this was the way out of the 'trap' that I was told we were all in. I became the fastest student in the acadamy, I eventually joined staff with my new wife and trained as an auditor.

This is the doctrine of "the confusion and the stable datum". See, for me in any case, I had a big ruin and a lot of confusion that came with it. The dissem drill plays on this; the FSM or reg asks "what is ruining your life?" Most "ruins" have a tremendous amount of confusion connected to them, which restimulates at this point, then after listening to the answer the FSM/reg says "scientology can handle that" or some such. Confusion and the stable datum. It is much more profound and far reaching when it occurs for real, scientology handled my illiteracy, something which did make me feel very, very stupid. Now the tech on this, which is covered in several areas of scientology,"FPRD", "the prior confusion" and the "service fac tech" states that the postulate prevents the confusion being viewed and discharged and the confusion prevents the postulate(stable data) from being viewed. So I endured 15 years of solo nots, without a lot of gain and 13 intensives of FPRD and another 4 ints of sec checking plus travelling to flag about 20 times, all of which I hated, add to that the mind bending ethics trips where kids, with no life experience tell you what is expected and how to run your life, based on your session KRs. (more confusion and stable datum) I went through all that because I had that stable datum "scientology works" and I could not inspect it after that. The big irony is that the tech that worked for me was the life work of a couple by the name of Ava and Charles Berner. It was only when I was writing my full history that the penny dropped that it was that win that cemented my loyalty.

Later, when one is in scientology, and various insane things are seen in the administration of the cult a similar mechanism occurs. You explain away each outpoint you see, the group will help you do it to. This is covered in the data series "the brain strains to explain the illogic" well, it is uncomfortable to be in the "island of sanity" and see things far crazier than out on the street. So you look at the SO exec who is screaming at the staff and the failing org and you say "they are just not trained" "they have MUs' "he did his bridge before the GAT". Each of these postulates/ justifications/explainations, call them what you will, but they PREVENT further inspection of the area it also stops you keeping count or connecting these things. To explain, it was not until I did a thorough doubt condition with the true data of Rons' and DMs intentions that I was able to make a list of the "activities" of the group, that list was divided into pro and contra survival actions. The contra survival list was many times bigger and longer than the pro.

In saying this I am not saying the tech is rot, but it is not the tech to achieve OT or total freedom, a claim whereby it gets most of its' mystique. It is what it is and does what it does, that seems to be a different thing person to person.
 
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Carmel

Crusader
Geez Feral! My God! 15 years on solo NOTS - including FPRD and all that sec checking??? Fuck me dead!!!!!

Your excerpt - yep, yep, yep! and sad, sad sad!

I have not much to say, except you've had a bloody rough ride.

Glad you're dealing with it! Am interested in the whole story.

Love,
Scio not Cultist
 

ThisIsIt

Patron with Honors
SNC,

Well, I am very glad to read your post, I was thinking about it, and what you might say, all day actually. So thanks for that. I wish I had taken that view of KSW, but as "he" said THIS IS NOT OPEN TO INTERPRETATION" :angry: so after being yelled at on paper I did not dare.:no:

I am anon on this board, for now, but I am writing my story and an excerpt, a revelation I had, while purging myself of my history in SCN could belong on this thread so I will add it, this discussion also helped me gain this insight about myself. I have also, at some risk to myself been quite vocal about my position on the church, call it community work, in doing that I ran into something, and it could well be what all "exes" run into when talking to Scilons in the church;

Excerpt;
Something I have noticed is that people that had major difficulties handled in scientology later cling to the tech after ending their affinity with the church as it was the stable data that ended a long term confusion. So it was for me; Scientology taught me to read, scarily enough, it was on the student hat course. I cleared almost every third word on that course. But that gave me an unshakable certainty, that this was the way out of the 'trap' that I was told we were all in. I became the fastest student in the acadamy, I eventually joined staff with my new wife and trained as an auditor.

This is the doctrine of "the confusion and the stable datum". See, for me in any case, I had a big ruin and a lot of confusion that came with it. The dissem drill plays on this; the FSM or reg asks "what is ruining your life?" Most "ruins" have a tremendous amount of confusion connected to them, which restimulates at this point, then after listening to the answer the FSM/reg says "scientology can handle that" or some such. Confusion and the stable datum. It is much more profound and far reaching when it occurs for real, scientology handled my illiteracy, something which did make me feel very, very stupid. Now the tech on this, which is covered in several areas of scientology,"FPRD", "the prior confusion" and the "service fac tech" states that the postulate prevents the confusion being viewed and discharged and the confusion prevents the postulate(stable data) from being viewed. So I endured 15 years of solo nots, without a lot of gain and 13 intensives of FPRD and another 4 ints of sec checking plus travelling to flag about 20 times, all of which I hated, add to that the mind bending ethics trips where kids, with no life experience tell you what is expected and how to run your life, based on your session KRs. (more confusion and stable datum) I went through all that because I had that stable datum "scientology works" and I could not inspect it after that. The big irony is that the tech that worked for me was the life work of a couple by the name of Ava and Charles Berner. It was only when I was writing my full history that the penny dropped that it was that win that cemented my loyalty.

Later, when one is in scientology, and various insane things are seen in the administration of the cult a similar mechanism occurs. You explain away each outpoint you see, the group will help you do it to. This is covered in the data series "the brain strains to explain the illogic" well, it is uncomfortable to be in the "island of sanity" and see things far crazier than out on the street. So you look at the SO exec who is screaming at the staff and the failing org and you say "they are just not trained" "they have MUs' "he did his bridge before the GAT". Each of these postulates/ justifications/explainations, call them what you will, but they PREVENT further inspection of the area it also stops you keeping count or connecting these things. To explain it was not until I did a thorough doubt condition with the true data of Rons' and DMs intentions that I was able to make a list of the "activities" of the group, that list was divided into pro and contra survival actions. The contra survival list was many times bigger and longer than the pro.

In saying this I am not saying the tech is rot, but it is not the tech to achieve OT or total freedom, a claim whereby it gets most of its' mystique. It is what it is and does what it does, that seems to be a different thing person to person.

:wow:

:goodjob:

I so agree with this, especially the last statement. When someone has a "win" or when people uses those wins as the reason why SCN works, I answer (usually in my own head) with the fact that the result happens because the issue was what was being focused on. This is why "SCN WORKS" so much of the time. The idea that it is the only thing that works, or that it was all discovered by LRH, or that is costs so much to have is such bs!

Great way to put it Feral!

:clap:

Now I realize that the Universe (including all the other resources out there and the internet of course) is full of answers, and I get lots of resolutions when I focus specifically. And here all those years I thought it was LRH. I think some beings hear the UNIVERSE talking more than others. LRH was one of them, but I think he messed up the message. :confused2:

I personally work daily to PAY ATTENTION to it (the UNIVERSE). :gimmesome:
I ignored what it was telling me for years! :blah: But not anymore.

ThisIsIt
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hey SNC!

One thing, SNC...

You said something about kicking yourself in the ass for taking so long to ...

Well, let's twin up on this, OK (my ass needs kicking too - same reason)

Maybe we oughta demo it and then do it in clay, get a check-out...:omg:

Nah, let's go for a beer or six and forget the whole thing!:yes:

Good posting, mate!:thumbsup:
 

Feral

Rogue male
Thanks guys, Yeah, it was a shocker and I have not mentioned the worst part yet:duh:

It is in the full story
 

Good twin

Floater
Can I join the ass kicking club. I've been slapped around by Sallydannce and Pixie, but still can't stop shaking my head in disbelief. The most useful thing I got from staying in for so long is a very profound sense of awe at finally starting over. Life is full of wonder for me now. I am hungry for EXperience. I really love being Ex. this week I met some delightful SPs and the most hospitable squirrels you can imagine.
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
Can I join the ass kicking club. I've been slapped around by Sallydannce and Pixie, but still can't stop shaking my head in disbelief. The most useful thing I got from staying in for so long is a very profound sense of awe at finally starting over. Life is full of wonder for me now. I am hungry for EXperience. I really love being Ex. this week I met some delightful SPs and the most hospitable squirrels you can imagine.

I totally know that feeling of awe Good Twin. There is wonder in everything for me. I look at the cereal box and go "God this is a beautiful box!". Tea bags are fascinating! I'm so excited to be free of that God damn cult.

Wanna dance with me Good Twin? Let's twirl! :happydance: :happydance: :handinhand:
 

Good twin

Floater
I totally know that feeling of awe Good Twin. There is wonder in everything for me. I look at the cereal box and go "God this is a beautiful box!". Tea bags are fascinating! I'm so excited to be free of that God damn cult.

Wanna dance with me Good Twin? Let's twirl! :happydance: :happydance: :handinhand:

Of course Sallydannce.
:dance2: :dance2: :dance2:
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Luv yawl, yes I do!

Good morning, children - It's a lovely day. Shall we gambol and frolic?:party: :dancer:

Rememinder for some readers - tomorrow is STAT DAY!:nervous: :omg:
POW's never have a nice day
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Bunnies...

Dear FTS,

I see you are "gamboling" quite effectively on the threads today - this is seriously excellent!:thumbsup: Bunnies do that - dance naked in the moonlight too, I'll bet. :D

Had to post back 'cause of a little cottontail bunny in the yard today - still in the "flopsey" stage and irresistibly cute hoppin' back into the flower bed where he (and probably several sibs...) hang out - just made my whole day.:eyeroll:

Little bunnies are a global treasure.

Little things make all the difference in the overall scheme of things. IMHO :yes:
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
I'm sorry to have to do this, but for the sake of the health and safety of members of this forum I feel it is my duty to reveal the truth.

This is the real FTS.
Fluffy bunny exterior, but cross her and she'll rip yer throat out! :omg:
You have been warned. :yes:
Please don't make the same mistake as Arthur's knights. :no:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg

Run away! Run away!
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I'm sorry to have to do this, but for the sake of the health and safety of members of this forum I feel it is my duty to reveal the truth.

This is the real FTS.
Fluffy bunny exterior, but cross her and she'll rip yer throat out! :omg:
You have been warned. :yes:
Please don't make the same mistake as Arthur's knights. :no:


Run away! Run away!

:dieslaughing: How did you know? :D
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
:dieslaughing: How did you know? :D

Well, it may have been that time you kidnapped my nephew and sent me a PM demanding a ransom. Or maybe I'm just psychic? :confused2:

evil_easter_bunny.jpg
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
EP Defeated!!!

Yawl,

Tanstaafl rules!

EP can take no more! :omg: Vanquished... run away, run away!

Unable to top MP vid. (thats, period!, waaay cool...):duh:

by the way... where'd you get that coconut?:coolwink:

Now, gotta learn more...how to imbed a vid...dance naked....
 
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