Statement re: Tommy Davis med claims

[Carmel]

<snip>
Then there's Tory's story. The SO staff get to go to the doctor if there's any money for it. How long's it been since any SO Org was actually upstat and had money for staff I wonder.

This is probably quite a factor in the difference - medical care is "free" in Australia (ie it's paid for by the govt, for australian residents). There's no justification needed for why one 'doesn't need to get it'. SO members could simply take their medicare card and trot along to the docs when needed.

I think the major point is being missed in this thread.
This isn't your average medical problem. The church does not believe in Autism...
Therefor it's not treated.

In the church I was in, austism was acknowledged by the techies. In saying that though, many listened to and/or grabbed onto 'verbal' around the shop, or quoted inference from the likes of DM at events. There was a 'group think' among some, that autism didn't exist and that "the brain could be simply be by-passed", but many thought the people who thought that were talking out of their ass.

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

This is probably quite a factor in the difference - medical care is "free" in Australia (ie it's paid for by the govt, for australian residents). There's no justification needed for why one 'doesn't need to get it'. SO members could simply take their medicare card and trot along to the docs when needed.


In the church I was in, austism was acknowledged by the techies. In saying that though, many listened to and/or grabbed onto 'verbal' around the shop, or quoted inference from the likes of DM at events. There was a 'group think' among some, that autism didn't exist and that "the brain could be simply be by-passed", but many thought the people who thought that were talking out of their ass.

That's where it gets weird. No where does Ron say outright that it doesn't exist. It's more an interjected idea from Scientologists that it doesn't exist. Only based on the fact it's a "mental" disorder.
Unfortunately, this was very very common among Scientologists around PAC.

 

[GreyLensman]

It's not a blatant contradiction to my experience, and I was very active on staff and/or on lines for 18 years (until '98).

I was the C/S in Sydney Day for some years in the '80's. Our staff and public were encouraged to take their meds for medical conditions, when needed and/or if deemed necessary for treatment per the doctor.

The opposite was promoted by some (and unfortunately bought by some), but those on auditing or tech lines who were prescribed meds for some physical condition, were never discouraged from taking those meds - we'd always work around it based on references that said we should do so.

I had an infection in my foot, severe. I was in Clearwater, at Flag. I went to a local clinic, and the doctor I saw diagnosed it and saw my OT ring - he asked if I was going to actually take the medicine he prescribed - he was quite worried - untreated this would have been life threatening.

Apparently his concern came from staff (Sea Org) refusing to accept normal (conventional) antibiotic and physical treatment on a regular basis.

I argued with him that treating this kind of wound was entirely acceptable to Scientology - but his experience with my "peers" in Scientology caused him to be very concerned. You could see the frustration.

 

[uniquemand]

Fundamentalism is frustrating, and ignorance parading as knowledge is pathetic.

 

[Once bitten]

I've had some experience to do with drug taking while on staff. (I could never work out why people were allowed to smoke, but life-saving asthma inhalers were banned...)

When I wanted to have some auditing while on staff - my then hubby paid for it by selling his precious Honda 125 - well I was taking ventolin and a preventer as well for asthma which was hell bad in Sydney. I was told that I had to stop taking both drugs for a week before I was allowed auditing, and so I tried very hard to stay off them. I was really sick with it though, and I was sent to ethics for PTS/SP handling first, and then I was given some god-awful concoction by the person in charge of staff wellbeing which had been made from sea-weed, and this nearly made me gag everytime I took it. It did not help my asthma which became life-threatening. I was rushed to hospital unable to breathe and put on a drip of adrenaline (I still have the scars on my wrists) and the doctors were flabbergasted that I had not been using the asthma drugs, and that any religion would order a person not to.

I was in hospital for about a week and then had to visit outpatients twice a week for physio and to make sure I was getting better. I decided that I had to take my inhalers and if I couldn't have auditing because of it, then so be it. I would rather be alive! Anyway, because we had paid for the auditing (and I guess the stats were down) I was suddenly allowed it, but the first thing I had was a sec check to make sure that I hadn't been PDH'ed while in hospital.

However, a completely different scenario in the States. I was sent over to pilot the Happiness Rundown as it was known then, and I came down with a really bad asthma attack probably due to all the staff smoking, the filthy and dusty (and cochroach infested) scn hotel we stayed in, and LA's pollution. I was sent to ethics and instead of being completely bawled (balled?) out by the EO, I was sent to see a dr straight away. I had no transport, and I didn't know of any dr in LA so I sat on the steps of the org in LA and cried. (As well as anyone can cry with asthma). A man came out of the org and asked me if I was ok. I said no, I'm sick and I need a dr. He said 'get in my car and I'll take you to one'. I got into this unknown man's car in LA for christ's sake, and went with him to god knows where, I was that sick. He took me to a scn dr who gave me an injection of adrenaline and then prescribed some prednisone which we had to go and collect from the pharmacy. It was about midnight by now.

The man told me to get back into his car and he drove me to the pharmacy and made sure I took the prednisone (all 20 of them) and then took me back to the stinky scn hotel. I never saw him again! If you are on this board, I thank you from the bottom of my heart!

I was never refused auditing in LA due to the drugs I was taking, as I was having to co-audit the Happiness Rundown with my buddy. It was weird. I was so sure I would be sent home in disgrace or made to spend time in ethics but it was all handled so 'ordinarily'.

So here are two different examples of how it's the people's own ideas which say whether or not you can take medical drugs and still be a scn. Where the Techsec in the first example got her idea of a week drug-free from, I don't know, as there is nothing written by lrh about this.

What I want to ask Tommy Davis is this. Do OTs take medical drugs? If they do, then why do they? I asked an OTVII why she had a cold sore once, and she said, 'oh it's my own fault I have this'. Hmmm. She was putting on all the cold sore stuff she could lay her hands on, and it got me wondering. So when OTs die of cancer (Pat Bloomberg for example) is it her own fault? CAn some OT fill me in who's been sick? How is it explained to you that you can still get sick?

THanks

(I'm just a mere clear, so I don't know)

 

[AnonLover]

Proof that anons eat dox and shit win & freshly served from the wikileaks vaults of gold:

Scientology cult: Medical Claims and Practices, 1950-1984
https://secure.wikileaks.org/wiki/Scientology_cult:_Medical_Claims_and_Practices,_1950-1984

Click on the DISCUSS tab to enjoy full impact

and much thanks to Once Bitten for sharing that experience!! this whole thread has been very useful for grasping bigger picture.

 

[Free to shine]

I've had some experience to do with drug taking while on staff. (I could never work out why people were allowed to smoke, but life-saving asthma inhalers were banned...)

When I wanted to have some auditing while on staff - my then hubby paid for it by selling his precious Honda 125 - well I was taking ventolin and a preventer as well for asthma which was hell bad in Sydney. I was told that I had to stop taking both drugs for a week before I was allowed auditing, and so I tried very hard to stay off them. I was really sick with it though, and I was sent to ethics for PTS/SP handling first, and then I was given some god-awful concoction by the person in charge of staff wellbeing which had been made from sea-weed, and this nearly made me gag everytime I took it. It did not help my asthma which became life-threatening. I was rushed to hospital unable to breathe and put on a drip of adrenaline (I still have the scars on my wrists) and the doctors were flabbergasted that I had not been using the asthma drugs, and that any religion would order a person not to.

I was in hospital for about a week and then had to visit outpatients twice a week for physio and to make sure I was getting better. I decided that I had to take my inhalers and if I couldn't have auditing because of it, then so be it. I would rather be alive! Anyway, because we had paid for the auditing (and I guess the stats were down) I was suddenly allowed it, but the first thing I had was a sec check to make sure that I hadn't been PDH'ed while in hospital.

However, a completely different scenario in the States. I was sent over to pilot the Happiness Rundown as it was known then, and I came down with a really bad asthma attack probably due to all the staff smoking, the filthy and dusty (and cochroach infested) scn hotel we stayed in, and LA's pollution. I was sent to ethics and instead of being completely bawled (balled?) out by the EO, I was sent to see a dr straight away. I had no transport, and I didn't know of any dr in LA so I sat on the steps of the org in LA and cried. (As well as anyone can cry with asthma). A man came out of the org and asked me if I was ok. I said no, I'm sick and I need a dr. He said 'get in my car and I'll take you to one'. I got into this unknown man's car in LA for christ's sake, and went with him to god knows where, I was that sick. He took me to a scn dr who gave me an injection of adrenaline and then prescribed some prednisone which we had to go and collect from the pharmacy. It was about midnight by now.

The man told me to get back into his car and he drove me to the pharmacy and made sure I took the prednisone (all 20 of them) and then took me back to the stinky scn hotel. I never saw him again! If you are on this board, I thank you from the bottom of my heart!

I was never refused auditing in LA due to the drugs I was taking, as I was having to co-audit the Happiness Rundown with my buddy. It was weird. I was so sure I would be sent home in disgrace or made to spend time in ethics but it was all handled so 'ordinarily'.

So here are two different examples of how it's the people's own ideas which say whether or not you can take medical drugs and still be a scn. Where the Techsec in the first example got her idea of a week drug-free from, I don't know, as there is nothing written by lrh about this.

What I want to ask Tommy Davis is this. Do OTs take medical drugs? If they do, then why do they? I asked an OTVII why she had a cold sore once, and she said, 'oh it's my own fault I have this'. Hmmm. She was putting on all the cold sore stuff she could lay her hands on, and it got me wondering. So when OTs die of cancer (Pat Bloomberg for example) is it her own fault? CAn some OT fill me in who's been sick? How is it explained to you that you can still get sick?

THanks

(I'm just a mere clear, so I don't know)

Crikey OB - what a story! That is exactly the sort of story that needs to be widely heard. Thanks for telling it...geez....