Steve Hall's post on closed Indy Facebook group

[ClearedSP]

I want no part of church 2.0.

Church 2.0 doesn't scare me, because that'd mean huge changes, which can't happen with KSW.

If they're not going to do anything more than to claim that some doctrines have been inappropriately tampered with, then they'll never get past Church 1.1.

 

[Claire Swazey]

Well actually, after the guys have now written about TheSneakster's end, I managed to recall that. Emma had to unsubscribe him because he started to delete all his posts.

He may be a kind of a nice guy in the real world, but he came here as the ultimate cause in his mind and was not willing to be any effect at all. Hubbard defines that as a game, whereas I think it's a pretty nutty postulate in the field of exchanging experience and opinions.

That's not exactly true. He wrote her and said he wanted to leave the forum and be unsubscribed. But he did start to delete his posts, yes. At some point in the past year, the settings have been changed so that people can't go back and delete old old posts. Admins can, of course, but members cannot.

Still, the fact remains that Mike made the decision to leave the forum first. He was not kicked out. Whether or not it's ok for him to subsequently delete his post content is between him and the forum owners, admins, etc. Too bad that his departure was announced.

Mike is a good guy. A bit of a brittle prickly pear, but that's just, you know, personality. He never claimed to be perfect and he wasn't perfect. I do not agree with him on everything and never will but I am not comfortable with the incorrect statements being made about him here.

 

[Gadfly]

Church 2.0 doesn't scare me, because that'd mean huge changes, which can't happen with KSW.

If they're not going to do anything more than to claim that some doctrines have been inappropriately tampered with, then they'll never get past Church 1.1.

Any appearance of "Scientology 2.0" will only be PR. It will be Scientology mocking up whatever look they need to have to further fleece as many people as possible. They will PRETEND to be whatever they need to be to get what they want. It is all just simple data by Hubbard on BE - DO - HAVE.

They did that with the GO. They pretended that the Guardian's Office went renegade and that some uncontrolled bad apples (Mary Sue, etc.) did things that "real" Sceintoogy didn't approve of. They used them as a scapegoat, and then reformed in pretty much the SAME EXACT WAY with OSA. It was all smoke and mirrors. It was all a big pretense. In fact, the GO was EXACT SCIENTOLOGY directed carefully bu Hubbard hisself. All else was a smokescreen to get Hubbard and the Church of Scientology off of the hook with the legal authorities. They will fabricate any "acceptable truth" to get what they want. They are fundamentally trained liars.

They will pretend (mock up) to be anything to get what they want. So much of Scientology involves intentional misdirection and creation of a useful illusion. It is all according to standard "LRH Tech".

 

[Fancy]

Yeah I know. I been lurking in places to keep tabs on what is going on. I should have come here to get a balance of info. One reason I did not is I avoided the more negative posters but now I know how to ignore them.

When I was in the church I really did not know what was being done by who. Now I see it being done out of the church I have a better reality of who is doing what.

Barb

I have it on good trust that's only a few weeks away, pre-prep'd with OSA-bot spook campaigns paralleling locked-door IAS events. And SP declares will come back into vogue again, although it's still in the "Put in Ethics" phase at this point.

 

[Smilla]

As I said earlier, I think he's probably quite sweet underneath the Scientology rubbish, but there's an awful lot of rubbish in place.


He thought he was on a mission from his God (Hubbard) to keep us in check, but it turned into slapstick comedy, and he couldn't handle it.

I hope that one day he makes a return to the real world, where he won't feel the need to impress people all the time.

 

[Smilla]

I wonder if at some point, our resident Scientologist Apologists, Defenders, and self-appointed Thread Police will at some point think of something better to do with their time.

Like Sneakster, they are making themselves look very silly.

Oh well.

Where there's life there's hope.

 

[Smurf]

Mike is a nice guy. He has his flaws and blind spots, but so does everyone else.

He wrote some great posts and he does not deserve the treatment some have dished out to him.

You're entitled to your opinion, but it is not shared by everyone. We are all a product of our personal experiences & observations. Too often, there are Type A personalities posting here that assume if you don't see things their way or share the same opinion, they are wrong.

I never said Mike Hobson wasn't a nice guy. I've had comms with Steve Hall, and he came across to me as a nice guy. He may feel & believe in something that others are opposed to, but he's entited to his beliefs, just as are those that disagree with him.

I'm confused with the "burn them at the stake" mentality that often arises among exes who don't agree with a fellow ex. The same goes for Karry Campbell, the admin for the Indie Scientologist group. I was not comfortable with her rules governing the group, so I removed myself from the group.

In doing so, I informed Karry that this was not a reflection of how I perceived her character & integrity. She remains a Facebook friend.

 

[loose cannon]

Like Sneakster, they are making themselves look very silly.

What a good luck that I'm so much willing to make myself look very silly

 

[Smilla]

This is worth watching and directly applicable to all the branches of the Cult of Hubbard.


[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4-Hms7bHqY[/video]

 

[Fancy]

I disagree. I know it is not going to go anywhere. I still keep the good parts and dump a lot of the crap.

I know for the world to continue more than one group and idea will do it by working together and why I support the evolution of man towards a more technological abundance. I tell people of the resource based economy based on idea not a group.

Groups seem to have a systemic problem.

Barb

This has been a very thought-provoking insight into Scientology and how it causes groups of people to behave. Not just the original Hubbard victims, but those in the Church of Miscavige, the Church of Marty and the Cheapzone, too. Nobody has managed to rise above the paranoia that LRH instilled. None of these groups of victims has reached a point where they understand what it means to be ethical. None of them understand that Scientology is over.

And you know what? I think the best course of action is summed up by paraphrasing Grouch Marx:

“I refuse to join any Scientology that would have me as a member.”

 

[Smilla]

This is the OCMB thread about the iscientology Cult website, and Steve Hall's Facebook Freakout:

http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=119292

 

[Fancy]

I don't buy into the victim card myself. He knew full well that he was crucifying nearly half the people on that FB blog, cutting them right down to shreds, and the extent was such that I can not even conceive of any valid apology for that. There is no excuse.

That is what I think as well and why I started to post here. I am glad I did not get into that group now. I suppose if I did get into I would be the first tossed and blamed.

When I mentioned the Resource based economy to Karry, (I was sick with gluten at the time) I figured out I was not going to be let in because I am for a new system for humanity that does not use money because of the ecology and technological unemployment. It is not LRH and she gave me the PR brush off. I note in the leaked that they bragged she did it with no money given her. What do they want money for everything. Yeah i know often the answer is yes. I had run in's with the more indoctrinated on FB. I keep the reasonable one's as my friend and let go the indoc'd ones. I even blocked one or two of them. I did not feel like running into them and arguing why money will always exist and how it is out exchange and deadbeat of people to not use money. This is what I was not happy about them in the church how much was charged and now even the FZ is charging a hell of a lot. I since a kid was willing to help for no charge at all because I liked helping.

Now I don't like helping as much because I got bit for doing so too many times.

They know all about what exchange is and how the world works. No one else could ever figure out a better system where cults will have a hard time getting going and control of others through money is eliminated as well as pollution of the planet for profit. No, no one could figure anything but them and their ethics. (Again I am not talking about the one's that can think and reason.)

When the robots take most of the jobs they got a hell of a shock coming. Technology is not going to stop taking the jobs. I feel sorry for those who can't see that and learn what the solution is.

It took me over a year to get one who is a friend to see it. It was very very hard and I don't want to do that again. She is now for it and wants to live in the cities. She also looks at other data not Scientology and she don't let anyone know that. So there are those who are more progressive and do look and learn. Those I rather hang with.

Not the church. 2.0 types. I also knew people that died in the church. I did not go blaming the FZ for it. You have to right target the blame. Self is one and being lied to is the other. Self for not looking up the data. Also not having enough education to evaulate what you are being told. People who are abused have no idea of what abuse looks like so they accept it. The PR is flashy and I used to buy it now too.

I don't buy the sorry myself. He may have realized some things but the problem is still there as it showed in his rant. The followers followed along. Why do people want to follow.

That is one thing the RBE folks is avoiding. There are no leaders but spokes people which can change over time. They do this for a few reasons. One the 1% can't take a leader out if there is none and no one can tell anyone else what to do. They cooperate for an idea towards a goal.

The church is part of the past. The idea of top down leadership. The idea money has to be and there is only one way to do things. Times change and so does society. They have not changed in the original church or the followers.

I tend to lump most fundies together as the responses to the comm are about the same from person to person but once in a while I run into those who don't do that and those I communicate with.

I for the most part lurked on the M. Blog. Once in a while posted and when I mentioned the RBE I got piled on for promoting out exchange. They can't even see the base of the problem besides a crazed leader. So they are not going to save the planet nor will they ever. I told the one auditor who is going for a masters degree on counseling she is doing it the right way and if auditing will survive it will be under the education of a trained counselor. She says she is loving her course work and she did not charge the earth as well for her auditing. She even understood why for the RBE. Now I consider that rare.

Barb

 

[Caroline]

I've noticed this tendency with long term SO INT people, it seems like they re-enter society at the exact emotional and maturity level they entered the SO at - so obviously Steve is still about 19 mentally, same goes for Rathbun (his music and backwards ball cap say it all), Rinder gets the girlfriend/(wife?) who is young enough to be his daughter but he probably relates very well to her since his emotional growth and maturity stopped when he was a teenager.

I think it's a testament to the retarding effects of long term SO indoctrination. Their minds basically shut down and enter slave mode, there is no progress whatsoever, if anything there is regression.

I think that's why so many of the long term SO vets strike people as so odd. They are middle aged men physically, but have the demeanor and behaviors of teenagers or people in their early 20's. (Hence the endless dramas and the not-very-well thought out hissy fits when they get mad or aggravated. A little needling or taunting makes them lose their shit.)

I'm sure the fact that the only emotion they were allowed to exhibit in the SO was anger, they don't have much practice at much else emotionally. I think they are also taken by surprise when they realize not only are their big repercussions for a nasty face rip in the 'real world" but it also makes all non-SO people think they are totally unhinged. (As opposed to getting a pat on the back for their Tone 40 and following command intention.)

Good observation, Bunnyskull. After I left Scientology, I also became aware of emotional immaturity in myself and observed it in Scientologists virtually universally. I also became aware of emotional maturity in some people who didn't go through the Scientology system. I bought the Scientology package that promised emotional ascendancy but delivered emotional regression.

I am convinced that Ron the Brainwasher intended to induce regression, because he consistently wrote regression-inducing protocols into his "Tech" and "Ethics" programming and reprogramming modalities.

Cf. CIA Interrogation methods:

All coercive techniques are designed to induce regression.

[...]

The following are the principal coercive techniques of interrogation: arrest, detention, deprivation of sensory stimuli through solitary confinement or similar methods, threats and fear, debility, pain, heightened suggestibility and hypnosis, narcosis, and induced regression.


CIA. (1963). KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation Manual. Retrieved via http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB122/index.htm#kubark

Scientologists apply a huge array of tech and ethics modalities to "outcreate," "suppress," "erase," "destimulate," "disconnect from," etc., their "human emotions and reactions," and to get joy out of creating their "own" Scientologically-correct "uptone," "theta" emotions and actions.

Human Emotion and Reaction, the counter emotions and reactions which aberrated human beings express when they are guided toward survival objectives. They are usually below 2.0 on the Tone Scale. (LRH Def. Notes) Abbr. HE & R.

Hubbard, L. R. (1976). Modern Management Technology Defined. Los Angeles: Church of Scientology of California Publications Organization United States.

To keep preying on us over time, Hubbard and his Keeping Scientology Workers disabled what emotional defenses we might have developed against their predation. HE&R was punished, and ever more so toward the core of Scientology's onion-layered organizations and hierarchies.

(Related discussion, esp. related to Erikson's stages of psychosocial development

 

[Fancy]

I have been out here for ten years watching such things. You are right it is the Sea Org people that are the worse and the most trained. OT's as well.

I seen them sit and fight for ten years. I seen OT's abuse others verbally as well. I seen good people as well. I realized people are going to be people but I am also seeing damaged people too.

I don't hide what I think and I am working on not upsetting people as well.

I seem to no longer count myself as a Scientologist by how I type. I guess I graduated but then it is ok to keep what works and reject a hell of a lot that don't.

I realized and told some if you are going to save the world how come you could not keep the church strait. Most don't answer me on that one. I already know the answer. all through time this is how history goes with groups in a money controlled society when you got a crazy person who wants all the money and power.

I think most of them don't know history too well. I am poor in it myself but I started to look at it. I been tracing my family tree and I am descended from the King of England so I am starting to learn history and I watched videos on more recent history as well on how brainwashing and people have been abused in this system.

I've noticed this tendency with long term SO INT people, it seems like they re-enter society at the exact emotional and maturity level they entered the SO at - so obviously Steve is still about 19 mentally, same goes for Rathbun (his music and backwards ball cap say it all), Rinder gets the girlfriend/(wife?) who is young enough to be his daughter but he probably relates very well to her since his emotional growth and maturity stopped when he was a teenager.

I think it's a testament to the retarding effects of long term SO indoctrination. Their minds basically shut down and enter slave mode, there is no progress whatsoever, if anything there is regression.

I think that's why so many of the long term SO vets strike people as so odd. They are middle aged men physically, but have the demeanor and behaviors of teenagers or people in their early 20's. (Hence the endless dramas and the not-very-well thought out hissy fits when they get mad or aggravated. A little needling or taunting makes them lose their shit.)

I'm sure the fact that the only emotion they were allowed to exhibit in the SO was anger, they don't have much practice at much else emotionally. I think they are also taken by surprise when they realize not only are their big repercussions for a nasty face rip in the 'real world" but it also makes all non-SO people think they are totally unhinged. (As opposed to getting a pat on the back for their Tone 40 and following command intention.)

 

[Claire Swazey]

Rage quitting and "butthurt"

People quit out of anger/rage/disenfranchisement (notice I didn't say "ARC break"- aren't you all proud?) because, rightly or wrongly, something pissed them off.

One cannot generalize the advisability or inadvisability of that. While rage quitting can often be out of petulance or some other bad reason, it can be due to a good reason. Suppose (and I'm making this scenario up. This did not happen) every time someone logged in, sixteen people threatened to out him or something? Or they said his wife was a whore (also something I made up)? That would piss the person off and he might well "rage quit".

Or he may rage quit because he got mad because someone said something about his grammar or his avatar.

It's an interesting phenomenon. A lot of people who rage quit or even quit calmly for some other sort of reason, figuring that it's no longer for them, eventually come back. And some don't.

And, yeah, sometimes they are "butthurt", so to speak. But that's part of the human condition, too. Feelings can be hurt. Sometimes the person is oversensitive or just plain wrong to feel that way. Sometimes not.

I am reminded of a conversation between myself and my husband that you might find amusing:

Me: "You hurt my feelings." (waah waah)

John (perkily): "Don't worry, honey, soon you'll have new ones dangling off ya."

All I know is I wish everyone who left the forum good luck and hope they are happy, whether they had a good reason to leave it or not.

 

[Fancy]

I sorely miss my mom too. She died a year earlier. She saw the cult truth before I did as she watched tv and learned about Lisa. M.

I love you Mommy.. Always will.. She passed in 2003 and I'd love to have her here with me even though she was a brat!

 

[Claire Swazey]

My folks died a while back. Before they passed, they did know that I'd left CofS. That was a good thing.

 

[Smilla]

I wish everyone still in bondage to it, a quick and permanent departure from the mind-bending abomination that is Scientology.

 

[Jquepublic]

This whole thing pisses me off. I want nothing but the best for each INDIVIDUAL but I cannot say the same holds true of any group. In light of Steve's outburst, Marty's message to OSA staff takes on a far more sinister tone than I thought initially.

Just to be perfectly clear, the first self-appointed ethics officer who shows up on my doorstep intent of "putting my ethics in" is going home in an ambulance.
Believe it.

 

[MissWog]

This whole thing pisses me off. I want nothing but the best for each INDIVIDUAL but I cannot say the same holds true of any group. In light of Steve's outburst, Marty's message to OSA staff takes on a far more sinister tone than I thought initially.

Just to be perfectly clear, the first self-appointed ethics officer who shows up on my doorstep intent of "putting my ethics in" is going home in a body bag.

Believe it.

Just keep it simple and make it a black eye & maybe a broken nose. You don't need the legal trouble but punching someone on your own property... shoot the gun in the air and make'em shit their pants it might feel good too
But no need to buy another lawyer a new car.. Legal trouble ain't worth it