Sweeney on marty's Blog

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Great surprises :)

You massively overestimate Marty's place and significance in all this. A little bird told me about some other people who will be featured in the program. Be prepared for a surprise.

I love little birds and I'm looking forward to the "show":coolwink::happydance:

Best
Markus
 

Doom

Lurking.
Thank you, Mick I just couldn't say it as succinctly as you just did.

Marty has a short memory and thinks that the "ANZO cases" have forgotten he tried to sink the inquiry, no wonder he wont show his face around here.

Simple human weakness Money and Power.

Hell if Marty directly attacks the doctine of the CofS rather than just DM,
I'll happily retract my words, but not if its that hamsterwheel bullshit.

PS Terrill if you think marty will remain in the FZ and maybe take it mainstream once he takes DM out, think again.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Hi Terrill

For some reason you seem to bring out the worst in me - I have no idea why I seem to lose my manners whenever I get to respond to your posts, but I do.

No worries mate. :)

[ shit! I've got an aussie valence sticking its neck out]


Like most Scientologists and Proto-Scientologists and Wannabe-Scientologists you are prone to mistaking words for action. You are also prone to mistaking "having spoken" to "having done something."

I am primarily looking at things with a PR perspective which is very appropriate re COS. Speaking is an action, and as the saying goes, "the
pen is mightier than the sword". Even some european governments
have spoken. In their case they have the resources of the police and
courts etc as back up.

Personally I dislike someone who in the guise of "helping" is just bent on continuing the same exploitation that the person already went through. I mean take a look at Logan on that blog. there's a guy who has suffered in the SO and now Rathbun is still keeping the whole mindfuck going for the guy. I mean - just look at the hateful drivel that Logan posts - I doubt that he even has enough self awareness to realize.

I knew Jim since before Marty started his blog. They've reconciled and are friends. Jim is very much a hardline KSW zealot. Marty less so. See his
thoughts on changing upper level approaches. Your slant on their relationship
is quite wrong IMO. They are both self determindly doing what they want to do.

Marty seems to know - and I am surprised that you do not - that words in TV documentaries do not make that much difference to the CofS, Scientologists are not going to "know" anything based on what Sweeney might say.

I completely disagree with you here. One program whose back story
and personel I knew very well was the " Beginners guide to L Ron Hubbard."
This didn't even attack DM, yet enormous efforts were made to get it stopped. OSA visited the "mentor" 4-5 times a day, threatening him, for a month including sending people from LA. Thats merely one facet of attempts to stop it .

So Marty makes his vague accusations without actually saying anything and he and Rinder score some points regarding disconnection. IN the meantime where is the support for criminal indictments? THOSE MATTER, not the fucking PR.

Multiple people stating on video and the press that DM physically assaults
people, and Marty admitting complicity are not vague accusations.

I hope further support for criminal indictments occur. The wheels of justice turn slow. Note that the cases of human trafficking directed at RTC and DM are still to come in Mark Headleys case next november. Marty would be foolish to pre-empt matters. There is also a similar case coming up with the son of one of Marty's friends.

They have both gone out of their way to avoid this.

And THAT speaks volumes Terill.

Open your ears. This guys is not your friend.

Looks like he has succeeding in doing something I've tried to
do and failed. Looks like he and Sweeney will expose, on Panorama the
hypocracy of COS's claims to support freedom of religion, when in reality
they come and threaten my Freezone friends with lawsuits, because
they follow their religion, philosophy and tech outside COS.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Once again terrill your "proof" of something being done is someone TALKING. Just because Marty blogs something - doesn't mean it actually IS.

Perhaps you could post on the Blog of Truth and ask why Marty tried to derail the inquiry in Australia? Now THERE"S something he actually DID. Ain't talking much about it though.

AS for the St Pete Times where did you get the info that it was Marty's idea?

Was Tobin and Childs, which does not diminish Marty's action in stepping up to the plate and running with it.

I've mailed Marty to ask him about his actions re Australia.
 
Was Tobin and Childs, which does not diminish Marty's action in stepping up to the plate and running with it.

I've mailed Marty to ask him about his actions re Australia.

In MR's defence, to the degree he has been successful in promoting to the world's media questions regarding the past and present behavior & corruption of the Co$ that serves to communicate widely to millions of people. These millions thus become reinforced in attitudes which would make them AT BEST highly sceptical potential converts to the Co$. In fact, it serves mostly to dissuade the viewers & readers who had been reached from any possible involvement with the Co$ at all. That is a positive development.

I'm certainly not an MR "fanboy", remaining sceptical of his actions and unconvinced as to his real intentions. I fully accept that he has involved himself in the Australian Inquiry process to adverse effects. I feel he needs to answer to that & other issues publicly. So far he hasn't done anywhere near an adequate job of doing so. That is certainly within his rights, but it is also certainly not a way to gain public trust.

It's his public credibility on the line. He gets to choose how he addresses that issue.


Mark A. Baker
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
No worries mate. :)

I knew Jim since before Marty started his blog. They've reconciled and are friends. Jim is very much a hardline KSW zealot. Marty less so. See his
thoughts on changing upper level approaches. Your slant on their relationship
is quite wrong IMO. They are both self determindly doing what they want to do.

oh dear. I just said that Marty is taking advantage of this deluded person and is enabling him.

But as I would think that anyone who is a "KSW zealot" is de facto a headbanger and in need of serious help and you would probably think it was ok - we are never really going to come close to agreeing.


I completely disagree with you here. One program whose back story
and personel I knew very well was the " Beginners guide to L Ron Hubbard."
This didn't even attack DM, yet enormous efforts were made to get it stopped. OSA visited the "mentor" 4-5 times a day, threatening him, for a month including sending people from LA. Thats merely one facet of attempts to stop it .

But Terril my contention is not that the cofs does not fight against bad pr. It is that it does not fight bad pr because of the effect on Scientologists. It fights bad pr because an unpleasant rep in the public eye can lead to things like Senators calling for enquiries.

But it does not have much of an effect on Scientologists. - my opinion of course.

Multiple people stating on video and the press that DM physically assaults
people, and Marty admitting complicity are not vague accusations.

But the people saying the assaults took place are not Marty. And some of those had been written about before the St Pete Times. All Marty has done is glom onto what others are doing - in this arena at least.

I hope further support for criminal indictments occur. The wheels of justice turn slow. Note that the cases of human trafficking directed at RTC and DM are still to come in Mark Headleys case next november. Marty would be foolish to pre-empt matters. There is also a similar case coming up with the son of one of Marty's friends.

Pre-empt? He is not pre-empting anything. He has not,AFAIK , filed any information with law enforcement about things like assaults, trafficking or whatever.

It has nothing to do with "pre-empting" it is called reporting a crime. Why do you think that Marty reporting what he knows in a depso or an affidavit would "pre-empt" anything?


Looks like he has succeeding in doing something I've tried to
do and failed. Looks like he and Sweeney will expose, on Panorama the
hypocracy of COS's claims to support freedom of religion, when in reality
they come and threaten my Freezone friends with lawsuits, because
they follow their religion, philosophy and tech outside COS.

When I see the program - the proof will be in the pudding.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
oh dear. I just said that Marty is taking advantage of this deluded person and is enabling him.

But as I would think that anyone who is a "KSW zealot" is de facto a headbanger and in need of serious help and you would probably think it was ok - we are never really going to come close to agreeing.




But Terril my contention is not that the cofs does not fight against bad pr. It is that it does not fight bad pr because of the effect on Scientologists. It fights bad pr because an unpleasant rep in the public eye can lead to things like Senators calling for enquiries.

But it does not have much of an effect on Scientologists. - my opinion of course.



But the people saying the assaults took place are not Marty. And some of those had been written about before the St Pete Times. All Marty has done is glom onto what others are doing - in this arena at least.



Pre-empt? He is not pre-empting anything. He has not,AFAIK , filed any information with law enforcement about things like assaults, trafficking or whatever.

It has nothing to do with "pre-empting" it is called reporting a crime. Why do you think that Marty reporting what he knows in a depso or an affidavit would "pre-empt" anything?




When I see the program - the proof will be in the pudding.
Scientology = completely nuts in the eyes of the public at large - whether it be CofS or Independent/FZ. Trying to handle that with LRH's PR Tek would be like trying to improve the public image and desirability of Hepatitis C. But let 'em have a go - it gives them something to occupy themselves with. Poor souls that they are.
 

TEoS

Patron with Honors
I regard Rathbun as a prize dick, but at the same time, I can appreciate the fact he's being a right royal pain in Miscavige's ass, so I'm content to sit back and enjoy the popcorn.

Marty needs to be careful just how successful he is in getting Slappy brought to justice, because as sure as night follows day, if Miscavige ends up in court accused of X number of abuses and criminal actions, you can be sure he will try to drag Rathbun down with him. All the dirty deeds that Rathbun performed for Slappy when he was still part of the cult will be brought out into the open in a last-ditch attempt to spread the blame. I'd like to bet odds on that the list of Rathbun's "crimes" runs to a very large number of pages.

Careful what you wish for, Marty, 'cos you just might get it, and all the trouble that comes along for the ride.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
oh dear. I just said that Marty is taking advantage of this deluded person and is enabling him.

But as I would think that anyone who is a "KSW zealot" is de facto a headbanger and in need of serious help and you would probably think it was ok - we are never really going to come close to agreeing.

Not sure what a headbanger is in this context. I'm not a KSW zealot by a long way, but appreciate that quality contol of auditing is a good thing, as indeed is quality control of any product.

Being zealous re green on white I'm at the opposite side of. I think much of it is excellent, but also consider much is a poisoned chalice, and in particular
that there is no evaluation of importances of the various issues. Being OEC/FEBC I've read them all and now exercise judgement. Any time I come across
a PL I look at it in a new unit of time as to its worth.



But Terril my contention is not that the cofs does not fight against bad pr. It is that it does not fight bad pr because of the effect on Scientologists. It fights bad pr because an unpleasant rep in the public eye can lead to things like Senators calling for enquiries.

But it does not have much of an effect on Scientologists. - my opinion of course.

You have just stated a good reason to appreciate Marty's efforts. :)

I take a different view. COS are VERY concerned about how parishioners are affected by adverse PR. Just look at the problems parishioners get
from ethics when they read the wrong book, have computer access etc.


But the people saying the assaults took place are not Marty. And some of those had been written about before the St Pete Times. All Marty has done is glom onto what others are doing - in this arena at least.

Marc Headley was the first. Again one shouldn't take away from Marty
the fact that he steppped up to that plate big time.

Pre-empt? He is not pre-empting anything. He has not,AFAIK , filed any information with law enforcement about things like assaults, trafficking or whatever.

It has nothing to do with "pre-empting" it is called reporting a crime. Why do you think that Marty reporting what he knows in a depso or an affidavit would "pre-empt" anything?

The crime of human trafficking is on the docket for Marc Headleys case.
The police have not arrested anyone yet. It has yet to be proved.

There are rumours here and there that the FBI are investigating such matters. If so one presumes they are gathering data.

Not sure if the Marc Headley case is solely civil, or if the human trafficking
matter is already criminal. We know from Larry Brennan's comments re
religious cloaking that attacking COS legally is a difficult job. To
forewarn them would clearly not be sensible. Its really up to the authorities to bring charges. They havn't yet, despite much urging from many. I presume
the lawyers involved are setting strategy here.




When I see the program - the proof will be in the pudding.[/QUOTE]
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Marty's playing you for a patsy Terril. If you like that kind of thing, well, that's your business. But, it's too much to expect people here to play dumb just because you choose to and we don't want to 'invalidate' you.

So much of what you've gushed about Marty Rathbun is just plain wrong that it's not worth taking your opinion seriously.

Zinj
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Marty's playing you for a patsy Terril. If you like that kind of thing, well, that's your business. But, it's too much to expect people here to play dumb just because you choose to and we don't want to 'invalidate' you.

So much of what you've gushed about Marty Rathbun is just plain wrong that it's not worth taking your opinion seriously.

Zinj

Marty's not playing me for a Patsy. We have very little communication.
I'm just giving my viewpoint as I do on occasion. Personally I don't think your viewpoint re Marty is worth taking seriously but I'll fight to the death for
your right to troll everyone. :)
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Marty's playing you for a patsy Terril. If you like that kind of thing, well, that's your business. But, it's too much to expect people here to play dumb just because you choose to and we don't want to 'invalidate' you.

So much of what you've gushed about Marty Rathbun is just plain wrong that it's not worth taking your opinion seriously.

Zinj
You might find this of interest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

No offense intended.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
To be fair, Marty decided to plug Terril's favorite 'Freezone' video (although he pretty much deigned to take credit for it), so, I'd guess that Terril considers it mutual back-scrubbing.

Zinj
Maybe for now. As we know, Scientology is good at using and discarding people.
 

FoTi

Crusader
For the benefit of anyone who might misunderstand Veda's remark, it does not refer to the satire of the popular "The Onion" website. It refers to the Scientological Onion, as described by Brian Ambry in his BRAINWASHING MANUAL PARALLELS IN SCIENTOLOGY.

The link is to a 97 page PDF (only 700KB). The Onion bit starts on page 17. It is VERY well worth reading. I've copied in the headings and sub-heads from the index. I haven't reformatted them beyond some bolding, but it should make sense.


The Layers of The "Scientological Onion" 17

Brainwashing Manual Parallels in Modern Scientology 19

Correspondences between the Brainwashing Manual and the Battle Tactics policy
On “Survival”
On Surviving the Atomic Bomb
On an individual Scientologist influencing leaders
Scientology is devious by design

Front Groups - Layer Zero of the “Scientological Onion.” 20

“It is not necessary that the term ‘Communism’ [Scientology] be applied at first…”

Layer One - The publicized portion of Scientology 23

“White Scientology”
Scenario: (An application of “White Scientology”)
“By reason alone”
Auditing

Descending into Layer Two of the “Onion”: The “In-Organization” Strata 27

“…[Scientology] under the guise of [‘White Scientology’]…”
Exploitation of the process of abreaction
Playing one thing off another or “counter-playing”
“Loaded language”: the seemingly enlightened “counter-played” with the manipulative
Tone 4, “entheta,” “theta,” Suppressive Person
The Thought Limiting clichés of Scientology
Publicized, “In-organization” and Confidential Scientology “Ethics”
“…aligning the individual against the desire not to conform…”
Side effects of “critical thoughts”
Dominion over the loyalties of individuals

Layer Three of the “Onion”: The Confidential “Upper Levels” of the “Bridge to Total Freedom” 33

“…avoid the understanding of the layman…”
Highest of the “upper levels” must remain a mystery to the membership
Operating Thetan or O.T.
Aleister Crowley, Head of the O.T.O.
O.T. III, The “Wall of Fire” into which Hubbard “took the plunge” to save Mankind
Exploitation of the paranormal

Layer Four: “…a well trained individual who serves in complete obedience…”
The Sea Organization, the Rehabilitation Project Force, and the Five Card System 36

The Sea Organization: “Custodians of the O.T. Levels”
“…the only loyalty which should exist… is to the State [Scientology].”
Sea Org Ethics under Commodore Hubbard on the Flagship
“Refusal to let them sleep over many days…”
The Rehabilitation Project Force
“Filthy food, little sleep, nearly untenable quarters…”
“…the first loyalty [to himself]… is destroyed…”
“Degradation and conquest…”
The children’s and teenagers’ RPF
“A certain amount of fear…”
The RPF’s RPF
The Five Card “Team Share” System
“The technologies of psychopolitics…”

Layer Five: Confidential Scientology Policy and Tech for “handling” uncooperative outsiders 46
The Fair Game policy and “philosophy”
“…find or manufacture enough threat…”
“Direct the attention of the authorities…”
Scientology’s unscrupulous use of the legal system
“We will no longer put up with our religion being criticized…”
Discourage inquiry
Defamatory data on file; “Culling”: Searching “religious confessional” (auditing) files for embarrassing or intimidating items
Background: The Commodore’s Intelligence Network
The policy of covert attack and publicized PR “defense lines”
Scientology’s Multi-layered Public Relations tech
Scientology Intelligence tech
Data collecting, and Attack or “support” Intelligence
Creating incidents that reflect badly on others
“Data needed by Ops on each located who”
Attack or “support” Intelligence - The Covert Ops study course and checklist
“Persons in his vicinity to whom he is emotionally involved…”
Coerce them into signing prepared “retractions” or “confessions”
Plenty of bogus “documentation”
One justification for unscrupulous covert methods
Treatment of VIPs and celebrities
Goal of talking over “mental health” and “political guidance”
Full knowledge of Intelligence tech must be denied to the general membership
“Deception, chicanery, lying, manipulation and outright criminality”
“She over there, those pink legs sticking out, didn’t like me”
Scientologists believe in a planet-wide conspiracy against L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology
The Scientology Hierarchy

Layer Six: The Core of the “Scientological Onion” 69
“…virtually a pathological liar…egotism… lust for power, and vindictiveness…”
“We must be like the vine upon the tree…”
The elusive “1000 page” official L. Ron Hubbard biography
“It’s a trap not being able to prevaricate”
Conscience as an “impediment”
The L. Ron Hubbard Fan(atic) club


Paul

Thanks for this info, Paul. I just found it today. Wanted to bump it back up for maybe others to see.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Thanks for this info, Paul. I just found it today. Wanted to bump it back up for maybe others to see.

Yes indeed. I don't see how anyone can understand much about Hubbard and Scientology without a grasp of what Ambry wrote there. Even years on staff don't give such a good overview.

Paul
 
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