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Sympathy for others lost then regained

Power Change

Patron Meritorious
Check this out....tech dictionary "Sympathy":

"a terrible thing but is considered to be a very valuable thing. The survival value of sympathy is this: when an individual is hurt or immobilized, he cannot fend for himself. He must count on another or others to care for him." L Ron Hubbard

There is much more in the tech dictionary on this...but the first definition says it all...scn could not function as the suppressive organization it is if any sympathy was allowed in by any member for any other member. Hubbard made sympathy a BAD BAD thing.

For a few years, I completely lost sympathy for others while involved in scn....even my own wonderful mother. I changed and became hard and well...I became a scientologist the way that Hubbard intended...

"The one super-secret sentence that Scientology is built on is: 'Do as thou wilt. That is the whole of the law.' It also comes from the black magic, from Aleister Crowley. It means that you are a law unto yourself, that you are above the law, that you create your own law. You are above any other human considerations." Fact.net

Now that I have been away from the cult, I FEEL again. I CARE again. I SYMPATHIZE in a healthy way with others suffering and want to help them.
Sympathizing with another is often the beginning of the way to help them. Sympathy opens the door to genuine communication if that person is suffering.

So, just a share...sympathy was a terrible thing to Hubbard....if sympathy were a good thing then he could not have hurt so many in such a short time.
 

duddins

Patron Meritorious
Check this out....tech dictionary "Sympathy":

"a terrible thing but is considered to be a very valuable thing. The survival value of sympathy is this: when an individual is hurt or immobilized, he cannot fend for himself. He must count on another or others to care for him." L Ron Hubbard

There is much more in the tech dictionary on this...but the first definition says it all...scn could not function as the suppressive organization it is if any sympathy was allowed in by any member for any other member. Hubbard made sympathy a BAD BAD thing.

For a few years, I completely lost sympathy for others while involved in scn....even my own wonderful mother. I changed and became hard and well...I became a scientologist the way that Hubbard intended...

"The one super-secret sentence that Scientology is built on is: 'Do as thou wilt. That is the whole of the law.' It also comes from the black magic, from Aleister Crowley. It means that you are a law unto yourself, that you are above the law, that you create your own law. You are above any other human considerations." Fact.net

Now that I have been away from the cult, I FEEL again. I CARE again. I SYMPATHIZE in a healthy way with others suffering and want to help them.
Sympathizing with another is often the beginning of the way to help them. Sympathy opens the door to genuine communication if that person is suffering.

So, just a share...sympathy was a terrible thing to Hubbard....if sympathy were a good thing then he could not have hurt so many in such a short time.

Wow....wonderful that you should mention this. I remember having to clear up that definition of SYMPATHY and having to re-learn that word.

I had always believed that sympathy was a good thing. But being in the SO and getting that word "cleared up" I learned that it was bad to have sympathy for anyone. I had to wipe out the idea of sympathy as I had known it and wipe out the desire to have sympathy as I had felt it before Scientology.

It was considered suppressive to have sympathy....because you were enabling others to be downtone.

Funny that you should mention your mom. I got both my parents in the SO, and I actually allowed them and my brother to suffer things I never would have normally put up with because I was not allowed to sympathize with them.

Unfortunately I also threw empathy out the window with sympathy as an SO officer. As I see it now, the lack of empathy and sympathy for others is a deeply antisocial behavior.

For me, part of my freedom from Scientology was being able to cry for someone or hold them and love them in sympathy without thinking I was doing something wrong!

Thank you for your thread!

Bernadette
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Lack of empathy is pretty much the definition of a sociopath, and Hubbard seemed to have empathy and sympathy confused.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Sympathy and empathy aren't synonymous. Have you ever read that HCOB where Hubbard talks with great feeling about some man in some far off tribe somewhere who's had family tragedies and is just trying to figure out how to get along in a world that shatters and laughs at his dreams? This was a greatly empathetic HCOB and it's far from the only one like that.

Hubbard isn't the only person I've seen deride or shy away from the word sympathy and I'm not just talking about other Scn'ists, either.

For that matter, he classes "no sympathy" even lower on the tone scale.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
You know, it's so funny, but when I was in CofS, my love for my parents grew even more. And they were not Scn'ists, either. Dad had asked for his money back and Mom never liked Scn. I never became hard. Worried about responsibility, though- yes.
 

duddins

Patron Meritorious
You know, it's so funny, but when I was in CofS, my love for my parents grew even more. And they were not Scn'ists, either. Dad had asked for his money back and Mom never liked Scn. I never became hard. Worried about responsibility, though- yes.

Fluffy, That is great that you were nice to your folks despite Scientology. You must be a saint.

I was close to my parents too. But I could not sympathize with them when they were upset that my brother was left running the streets at the age of 11, or that there was noone on post to make sure he was going to school. The folks watching over my brother were the same folks watching over Bea Kiddo.

It was expected that my folks would resolve their problems through proper comm lines.

I could not sympathize with my mom when she was forced onto 16 hours of mest work per day because she missed my father who was always away on mission. She was considered downstat. I had to play the role of officer. Cold. It was not my hat.

I don't like sugar coating the facts. I was an upstat product of the cult.
Unsympathetic and unreasonable. I moved up in the ranks because I was able to let go of my desire to sympathize with my family and anyone in the outside (wog) world.

Call sympathy bad, like Hubbard if you like. I know what I know.

We had different experiences. Lets not compare apples with dog turds.
 

cinamingrl

Patron Meritorious
~~~

Sympathy and compassion are not the same thing. I am a more compassionate person than before. But sympathy can be not so good, if it's all you can give. I have no sympathy for the staff or people who are still in it, especially certain staff who are still there after I left. It's hard to feel anything for people who have treated others so callously. And I think compassion is even higher on the "tone scale". But sympathy is way down there.
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
Hmm.. The aims of Scientology is: "A world without compassion and sympathy." - Rather than without crime and insanity.. Both of which the cult 'creates' with ferocious dedication!

One thing that loomed in my mind.. Even back when I was a fireeating $cientologist..

Eskimoes have many names for snow.. $cientologists have many names for insanity!

While snow is real...

The Dianetics theory of the human mind presumes that humanity as a whole is insane.. Albeit Hubbard supplied a more 'palatable' word, Abberated...

:yes:
 

Power Change

Patron Meritorious
Sympathy and empathy aren't synonymous. Have you ever read that HCOB where Hubbard talks with great feeling about some man in some far off tribe somewhere who's had family tragedies and is just trying to figure out how to get along in a world that shatters and laughs at his dreams? This was a greatly empathetic HCOB and it's far from the only one like that.

As an obvious empathizer of Hubbards, do you like or practice black magic too?


"Ron Jr. says that he remembers much of his childhood. He claims to recall, at six years, a vivid scene of his father performing an abortion ritual on his mother with a coat hanger.

Ron Hubbard Jr. remembers that when he was ten years old, his father, in an attempt to get his son in tune with his black magic worship, laced the young Hubbard's bubble gum with Phenobarbital. According to Ron Jr. drugs were an important part of Ron Jr.'s growing up, as his father believed that they were the best way to get closer to Satan--the Antichrist of black magic.

"In my father's private circle," Ron Jr explains, "there were lots of mistresses. When I was younger, I participated in private orgies with him and three or four other women. His theory was that one has to open or crack a woman's soul in order for the satanic power to pour through it and into him. It got kind of far out, culminating in a variety of sex acts. Dad also had an incredibly violent temper. He was into S & M and would beat his mistresses and shoot them full of drugs."

"To stroke and taste the environs of the Great Beast, to fondle Crowley's books, papers, and memorabilia had filled him with pure ecstasy! In London he had acquired, at last, the final keys; enabling him to take his place upon the Throne of the Beast,' to which he firmly believed himself to be the rightful heir. The tech gushed forth and resulted in the Philadelphia Doctorate Course lectures."


So Fluffy..........Does this sound like a man that is capable of sympathy or empathy ?

Please...........spare us your insight into people you refuse to see for what they FACTUALLY were......OMG:no:
 

Whitedove

Patron Meritorious
I like this subject. Its been something I was struggling with constantly when I was 'in'. And it drove me nuts and I acted like a bitch sometimes and other times I would have compassion. Yes we all do that to a certain degree but this was like a duality. Talk about going schizo! :nervous:

Now, I am not afraid to sympathise, have compassion (call it whatever you want) for others. On the contrary. Being compassionate, having sympathy made me a human being who cares for others instead of having this attitude of 'you pulled it in', or 'its not my problem' or 'he is responsible for his condition' type of attitude.

Dont get me wrong. I dont sympathize with everyone and everything. I can differentiate. :eyeroll:
Now that I see this type of attitude for what it really is, I am not proud that I was that way than and the consequences of that. Yes there was consequences cause of it.

I found those definitions of sympathy and compassion. Sheesh, we can have a debate which word to use but in the end, its pretty much the same.

-sharing the feelings of others (especially feelings of sorrow or anguish)

-Sympathy is a social affinity in which one person stands with another person, closely understanding her or his feelings

-understanding how someone else is feeling

Now, as for the definiton of 'sharing feelings of sorrow or anguish' I am sure some will say that is what Hubbard meant or in that line of tought.
When I dont believe its constructive to have an attitude of 'oh poor you, oh yes, oh my god. lets cry together' I am for 'OMG, I'm here for you, I might not totally get what you are going through (or I might), but I'm here to listen, comfort and help you if you want to'. I can be a shoulder to cry on and give advices to help. Or just a ear to listen to you.

While some might disagree, that IMO is part of what help makes this world a better place.

Someone who is going through a depression or a loss or whatever the person might go through need support. Telling the person 'you pulled it in' or 'you are responsible for your condition' IMO is heartless and antisocial.

Whitedove

Powerchange, I LOVE your line:
'I do have super powers, I just dont want to show you :D

Hilarious!
:coolwink:
 

Wisened One

Crusader
When I joined Co$, sympathy/empathy/compassion were one of the first emotions that got squelched (or put in the background). As far as those things for people, in a general way/life way.

Then, it was used in a different way within Co$: As a Div 6'er who loved people to the core to the point that I wanted to 'save their soul' by getting them on the Bridge.

Then each one that didn't, I would feel that terrible letdown for each one.

Fun stuff, huh?

Lovely. :no:

When I blew, it took a looooonnng time for me to re-open my heart again and simply feel love/compassion/empathy/sympathy for their own sakes.

I also learned-and tried-something new in my lfe, too.

I learned to love, empathize, have compassion for and most of all, quit judging and forgive myself.

And WOW did THAT ever make a difference in my life (and emotions).

And it was free.

Michelle
 
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Whitedove

Patron Meritorious
hummm...interesting. One point further to this. Judgment. Dont you find Scientologists very judgmental? I can see now how much I was! :duh:

Scientologists knows better than everyone else (that is not a Scientologist of course) since they are the only one who have the 'truth' and are 'aware'.
sheesh...I used to really believe that! :faceslap:

And between themselves. He/she is out-ethics, he/she is lowtone. he/she has evil purposes, etc....
Now, how can someone have any kind of empathy/sympathy/compassion when he thinks that way.

Do you know what I also came to realize although its a very tough concept to totally grasp? That I was depersonalized. Sort of a split personality in a weird kind of way. Not like I would go into another 'valence' and than dont remember who I was but like there was 2 persons within myself.

I'm just thinking outloud here people so tell me if I dont make any sense k?
:confused2:

Basically, having to learn to detach myself from my emotions which Scientology is VERY good at to teach you, I came to totally suppress my emotions to a point where I was totally frustrated most of the time.
Now, I am much more in tune with my feelings. Its not easy I have to say. It's like re-learning to know who I truly am but I feel so much better about who I am now than this robot I used to be.

And since we are humans, do have emotions no matter how much we learned how to suppress them thanks to Hubbard, imagine how much damage it can do to a person. :screwy:

And so, we go back to no sympathy. It does all fit together imo. If you cant have compassion for yourself, your own feelings, love yourself for who you are how in the world canyou have those emotions for others? :confused2:
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
As an obvious empathizer of Hubbards, do you like or practice black magic too?

I already told you several times in another thread that I don't practice "black magic". So I assume this is rhetoric. Possibly along the lines of "do you still beat your wife."



So Fluffy..........Does this sound like a man that is capable of sympathy or empathy ?

Some of his writings are empathetic, some not. But I'm not worried about the man and what he did. I'm an idea person and I am a critic of not just CofS but of Hubbard, as well. As someone remarked on another forum recently, Wagner was a real piece of work but that didn't negate the music he produced.

Please...........spare us your insight into people you refuse to see for what they FACTUALLY were......

Request denied. This is a discussion forum and I've as much right to air my opinions as you. My post was on topic.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Fluffy, That is great that you were nice to your folks despite Scientology. You must be a saint.

I was close to my parents too. But I could not sympathize with them when they were upset that my brother was left running the streets at the age of 11, or that there was noone on post to make sure he was going to school. The folks watching over my brother were the same folks watching over Bea Kiddo.

It was expected that my folks would resolve their problems through proper comm lines.

I could not sympathize with my mom when she was forced onto 16 hours of mest work per day because she missed my father who was always away on mission. She was considered downstat. I had to play the role of officer. Cold. It was not my hat.

I don't like sugar coating the facts. I was an upstat product of the cult.
Unsympathetic and unreasonable. I moved up in the ranks because I was able to let go of my desire to sympathize with my family and anyone in the outside (wog) world.

Call sympathy bad, like Hubbard if you like. I know what I know.

We had different experiences. Lets not compare apples with dog turds.

Cultic indoctrination is indeed terrible and destroys families. Of course CofS has destroyed many families. That's why it needs to dissolve/be eradicated. And many of its abuses are firmly rooted in Hubbard's tech.

I recounted my experiences because I feel that we all have something to share and discuss.

My best to you and your family.
 

cinamingrl

Patron Meritorious
~~~

hummm...interesting. One point further to this. Judgment. Dont you find Scientologists very judgmental? I can see now how much I was! :duh:
Oh me too. This is crazy, I still get that way.
And between themselves. He/she is out-ethics, he/she is lowtone. he/she has evil purposes, etc....
Oh my, I can recall that crap. "evil purposes". IF they could just see me now, I am full of evilness. :unsure: :roflmao:



Basically, having to learn to detach myself from my emotions which Scientology is VERY good at to teach you, I came to totally suppress my emotions to a point where I was totally frustrated most of the time.
I did this too. Emotions were not allowed, much like my childhood. So it was familiar.
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
IMO, having empathy is having an ability to perceive the emotional condition of another. This is ABSOLUTELY critical to "bedside manner" in a doctor, or to any recognition of affect improvement in a session environment.

Sympathy, on the other hand, is more of a reaction, where you become triggered by another's emotional state. It may be comforting to that person for you to understand, but having your own abilities compromised doesn't seem to be empowering to help that person.

IMO, empathy ===> good thing, sympathy ===> bad thing
 

xseaorguk

Patron Meritorious
Sympathy or Compassion

I dont remember now where reading it or hearing it, but about 5 months ago when I first started researching on the the message boards and listening to lectures from xenu.net and youtube, the penny dropped for me was when I heard somebody say that $cientology has no real compassion for people. That really indicated to me.
Also that you are obviously taught to be selfish.

While in the Sea Org I often observed people acting quite selfishly when it came to food or housing.
Whether you landed in a dormitory with 30 other guys or somehow through connections maybe got yourslef into a better room with more space.
It seemed at though you just had to fight for your basic rights.
Nobody actually helped you, as they were concerned with getting themselves into a better situation.
For breakfast in the morning if you didnt get in the kitchen first it looked a total mess, as others had not bothered to clean up after themselves.
Maybe some had been selfish and eaten more food than was really allowed.
First come, first serve!

For years after I left the CULT I thought that tramps on the street (bums in USA) were just degraded beings, who should not be helped.
It wasn't until I myself was in difficulties and found one of my TRUE friends to be an ex-acholholicor and ex- homeless person.
No, I didn't land on the street, but he was the only person who acted as a true friend toward me.
I shall never forget that, and it changed my opinion as I got to know him better.
He had a difficult personality, but a heart of gold and was always a ray on sunlight in my life.
He took me along to a local soup kitchen where homeless meet for a coffee or to play cards. Most are old, some are mentally not stable.
The people there were friendly.

I'm a musician myself and decided to give a benefit concert to raise money for the homeless, which I would have never done while 'in' the CULT.
I did so, enjoyed doing so and we raised some funding for a project.

I came to realize that I had great prejudices and was quite intolerant of others.
All part of my deprogramming, but had occurred some 25 yrs after being in the Sea Org where you are trained to be cold inside.
 

Whitedove

Patron Meritorious
I dont remember now where reading it or hearing it, but about 5 months ago when I first started researching on the the message boards and listening to lectures from xenu.net and youtube, the penny dropped for me was when I heard somebody say that $cientology has no real compassion for people. That really indicated to me.
Also that you are obviously taught to be selfish.

While in the Sea Org I often observed people acting quite selfishly when it came to food or housing.
Whether you landed in a dormitory with 30 other guys or somehow through connections maybe got yourslef into a better room with more space.
It seemed at though you just had to fight for your basic rights.
Nobody actually helped you, as they were concerned with getting themselves into a better situation.
For breakfast in the morning if you didnt get in the kitchen first it looked a total mess, as others had not bothered to clean up after themselves.
Maybe some had been selfish and eaten more food than was really allowed.
First come, first serve!

For years after I left the CULT I thought that tramps on the street (bums in USA) were just degraded beings, who should not be helped.
It wasn't until I myself was in difficulties and found one of my TRUE friends to be an ex-acholholicor and ex- homeless person.
No, I didn't land on the street, but he was the only person who acted as a true friend toward me.
I shall never forget that, and it changed my opinion as I got to know him better.
He had a difficult personality, but a heart of gold and was always a ray on sunlight in my life.
He took me along to a local soup kitchen where homeless meet for a coffee or to play cards. Most are old, some are mentally not stable.
The people there were friendly.

I'm a musician myself and decided to give a benefit concert to raise money for the homeless, which I would have never done while 'in' the CULT.
I did so, enjoyed doing so and we raised some funding for a project.

I came to realize that I had great prejudices and was quite intolerant of others.
All part of my deprogramming, but had occurred some 25 yrs after being in the Sea Org where you are trained to be cold inside.

That is wonderful xseaorguk :happydance: :thumbsup:

Helping those in real need is an act of compassion and giving an helping hand to those who need it is NOT low tone. Its the opposite.

The ONLY reason Scientology says not to help those people or others that truly need help which means have no money or lost their home due to an hurricane or anything that means helping just to help is because they are a money making corporation.

Scientologists are selfish people. They get 'in' with a desire to help others and end up being self-centered and antisocial. Or finally wake up and get the hell out of there before there is no trace of humanity left in them.

I also felt that my soul has been stolen. Now, I have it back.
I'm not going to hell...lol
:coolwink:

Whitedove
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
Isn't the word 'sympathy' often used synonymously with understand/appreciate?

Like in this sentence: "I have sympathy for your plight.", meaning I understand the plight and understand your feeling about that.

I don't see how this can be bad in any way.. Other than some Hubbard conditioning that is.. The meaning of the word doesn't say anything about tonescale mimic'ing, like Hubbard seems to imply.

Hmm.. So, 'sympathy' could be synonymous with 'pity' in some other cases.. Where 'pity' is slightly offensive to the one 'pitied'.

Anyway.. I might have an MU there?

I always felt that Hubbard tried to pull my leg with that word..

And I have sympathy for a lot of things/stuff/people.. No adverse effects as far as I can tell..

:wiggle:
 
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