Tag end, of the catalyst for me & parts of a story

RogerB

Crusader
It Upsets Me! God Damn it!

In following this thread I have to add to what Kevin "Bloody Right on as usual" MacKey and Terril "My New Hero" Park have said above.

We techies cared about redemption, forgiveness and healing. That is the purported premise of all the tech. That and the recovery and restoration our true beauty and wonderfulness.

Good techies cared about helping folks be freed from the upsets, trials, tribulations and errors of their past.

To be trying to make another guilty of them is the highest of crimes . . . and Hubbard actually said that "the basic overt act appears to be that of making another guilty" . . . it is the grossest of criminal and evil conduct. It is a perversion of what we processors stand for; of what the tech is supposed to be.

It makes me weep bitter tears of anger.

RogerB
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
Carmel,

Thank you for telling us this part of your story and having the courage to do so.

Every time someone stands up to the cult like this, it makes it easier for all the rest of us. Like all totalitarian regimes, the Church of Scientology uses fear, intimidation and the threat of terrible punishment to control its subjects. If we can face up to the truth and not be afraid of it as you have done Carmel, then they lose their power.

I wonder what went through Shane’s mind while he was abusing you in ‘session’. Did he really think that he was delivering Scientology or is he so far gone that he just follows orders without thinking anything at all? If it is the latter, I feel very sorry for him because he is going to end up trapped in a very dark place indeed.

Anyway, I am so glad that you have been able to put all this behind you now.

Hugs and kisses from your friend,

:bighug:

Ax
 

Terril park

Sponsor
In following this thread I have to add to what Kevin "Bloody Right on as usual" MacKey and Terril "My New Hero" Park have said above.

We techies cared about redemption, forgiveness and healing. That is the purported premise of all the tech. That and the recovery and restoration our true beauty and wonderfulness. [snip]


RogerB

Me a hero? Maybe 9 years ago when I thought I would have the full force of OSA on my back for promoting all levels in the FZ. Never happened.

Lets say we have a case of "pay it forward". You gave me my first free course on dissem. Payed that forward. And then much later the OEC/FEBC.

Yes! Redemption, forgiveness and healing. Thats where I operated as an E/O. Its where I'd operate with Shane Brockhurst or anyone else.
 

Carmel

Crusader
The apparency of why they were gunning for me.

<snip>
If we can face up to the truth and not be afraid of it as you have done Carmel, then they lose their power.
They sure do, Ax - As the months keep going by, it seems that the only power they have over us is the power we give them, or the power that we 'imagine' they have over us.

For the first time now, since getting out, I now feel like I could walk into either org, and that I would no longer be scared to do so. I have been scared at the thought, and even had the willies about thinking of doing so, right up until after I pushed the submit button on that last big post. I knew that I would get some relief from what's been niggling at me these last few months (since the "story" that has gone around had gotten back to me), but I didn't think that I would get anywhere near the immense amount of relief that I have done from posting about it all.

I wonder what went through Shane’s mind while he was abusing you in ‘session’. Did he really think that he was delivering Scientology or is he so far gone that he just follows orders without thinking anything at all? If it is the latter, I feel very sorry for him because he is going to end up trapped in a very dark place indeed.
He was getting blasted and was under incredible pressure. From the look in his eyes at the time, I think that he had been duped into believing that I was evil, and that he had to "expose me for what I was", and stop me from doing what he 'believed' I was doing.

In recent months, I have discovered that prior to the RTC mission arriving in ANZO around August '97, DM had teams on RTC missionaires to fire out to each Cont.

Reportedly, the deal was that the stats were down on each cont after GAT. He sent three RTC missionaires to each Cont (at the end of our winter '97), to find the "who" in the field - ie "the" person in the field who was responsible for their conts stats being on a down trend. Then these missionaires were to clean up the field by exposing that person, ridding the field of their influence, "handling" all those that he or she had influenced, while getting production up again - crazy I know, but that does fit with what occurred.

I had had months of ethics and ethics hatting and sec checks for the six months prior to those interviews. In that time, I had seen just about any and every field member who had ever been on staff or contributed anything, who wasn't sufficiently currently 'active', being hauled into the AO for ethics handlings including sec checks. During those months, there wasn't a night that went go by, when I didn't see some field member walking around getting signatures on a liability formula.

I wasn't prepared to do a liability formula, hence the RTC MAA's intention was to keep me on various handlings until I "woke up" to my out ethics, and "turned around".

By December, Tim my hubby, and Shane Mc (my long time mate and associate) had ended up doing liability formulas (looking at it in hindsight, that was the smart thing to do if ya didn't want to get declared). After that Ty Webb (the RTC MAA) told me that it was now obvious who was influencing who. He told me that he had thought that it was either Tim or Shane who was influencing me, and influencing this "circle of OT's" in the field, but now that they had "turned around", it had become perfectly clear who was influencing who. He had a mocked chuckle when he was talking to me about this, and told me how clever I was, and that he should have seen it when he first met me.

I felt betrayed by Tim and Shane at that time, and every other field member who ended up doing their formulas. I thought that if none of us submitted to a condition assignment, then they would have been stuffed and given up, cause they couldn't declare all of us. However, it wasn't that easy. They'd get us with two or three on one, and keep hammering away. In that circumstance you'd feel alone, and that ya just couldn't take it anymore. In hindsight, it was clearly a mistake to take it, but I didn't think so at the time.

Looking at it now, given that these missionaires (who were being run by DM) had to find a "who", then it would "figure" that with their mentality, that they would decide that I was the "who" - In their eyes I was the only one left of a bunch of field members who hadn't and wouldn't do liability, and I was still arguing (although doing so very quietly in the end), so I "must have" been it.

The RTC MAA would look at me with disdain/disgust. So would the other two missionaires and Shane B (the only one who didn't was Vicki Hannah CO OSA - she was still pretending to be nice a lot of the time). I could never understand it at the time, because I wasn't hiding a thing at the time, and I wasn't being "defiant".

I do believe now, that they were all of the mindset that I was bad news. I certainly know that the RTC MAA did, and it seems apparent that he passed that mindset onto Shane B. Shane would have had to convince himself of something, to do what he did. He wasn't in the 'real world' at that time, and I could see him floundering at times when I tried to bring him back to reality in my first and third interviews with him.

I didn't see it this way until after I heard about the mission orders. Back then in '97 and '98, none of it made sense to me (as in, I couldn't figure out what was going on). It still didn't make sense when I wrote up and posted what occurred, back in September last year. Getting the bigger picture though, and even when writing up my last post on all this, the penny has dropped on it all.

As crazy as their mindset must have been, of course they must have had one that was pretty solid in order to do they did. I can now sort of understand it, and having that understanding has very much helped in not taking it 'personally'. If it wasn't me, it would have been someone else - They had to find a "who", and it wasn't about me, after all. Realising this, has given me enormous relief and much closure regarding the whole fiasco.
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm glad you have relief. What you've accomplished on both personal and ex-Scio lines is amazing.

Three cheers!


:hattip: :dancer: :cheerleader:
 

HCObringOrder?

Silver Meritorious Patron
So DM the megalomaniac never considered that the "basics" which he had just re-written could possibly be the cause behind the Multiple Continental Stats crashing.
It must have been a multiple number of who's, in all the continents.
Hmm, One Who or Multiple Whos, Many continents having problems but it cannot be the one major change that we just made.... :confused2:
Of course, it must have been Carmel!! :omg: :omg:
Why didn't we see it when she had the wool over our eyes and making the same stats soar??

Oh, and now the Tech is not to Declare them and send them packing, the Tech (DM) is to try to make them so pissed off and crazy that they go out in the field and tell everyone how they were treated...
And DM wonders why his feet keep getting more holes and hurting so much. :confused2: :confused2: :duh: :duh:

Love ya too Carmel.
And people can change from who they were.
:happydance: :p :D :coolwink: :) :wink2: :eyeroll: :whistling: :hattip: :yes:
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
Carmel :bighug: - thank you very very very much for posting the specifics of the squirrelling that you were put through.:thumbsup:

Having trained with Shane too I just can't imagine how trashed he must've been to ignore ALL of his training and be a part of doing that to you.

The evil inherent in this cult will kill it surer than anything you or I could do - they are really the living dead right now.

Stuff like this just makes me fight them even harder.
 
Hi Carmel,

You have amazing strength and are an inspiration with your courage and strength. Thank you for sharing your story, it gave me hope and I'm sure it will give others hope too.
You are a remarkable woman !
I also wanted to give you a huge hug !!!!!:thankyou: :bighug:
 

Tiger Lily

Gold Meritorious Patron
Carmel, You are amazing. I believe that you really have forgiven yourself, because I don't sense that you are bothered by it. I wasn't bothered by reading it , other than I knew that those had to be very tough times for you. In fact I so admire what you have overcome. You are a survivor and an inspiration.

-TL
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Carmel, even though we didn't cross paths often in the Org, I always felt that your drive was to help people and my attitude is that anyone who can wake up to the madness, walk away and "declare" it for what it is, automatically earns forgiveness. The hardest person to seek forgiveness from is yourself, and if you've managed to do so, then you're one step ahead of many.
 

Div6

Crusader
You know what this reminds me of? A Mafia Initiation.

Just substitute the word "auditor" for "mafioso", and "RTC" for "Cosa Nostra". :omg:

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia#Initiation_ceremony


"A prospective mafioso is carefully supervised and tested to assess his obedience, discretion, ability and ruthlessness. He is almost always required to commit murder as his ultimate trial.

After his arrest, the mafioso Giovanni Brusca described the ceremony in which he was formally made a full member of Cosa Nostra. In 1976 he was invited to a "banquet" at a country house. He was brought into a room where several mafiosi were sitting around a table upon which sat a pistol, a dagger and an image of a saint. They questioned his commitment and his feelings about criminality and murder (despite already having a history of such acts). When he affirmed himself, Salvatore Riina, then the most powerful boss of Cosa Nostra, took a needle and pricked Brusca's finger. Brusca smeared his blood on the image of the saint, which he held in his cupped hands as Riina set it alight. As Brusca juggled the burning image in his hands, Riina said to him: "If you betray Cosa Nostra, your flesh will burn like this saint."
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
My cognition!

...snip...

If it wasn't me, it would have been someone else - They had to find a "who", and it wasn't about me, after all. Realising this, has given me enormous relief and much closure regarding the whole fiasco.

Carmel, even though we didn't cross paths often in the Org, I always felt that your drive was to help people and my attitude is that anyone who can wake up to the madness, walk away and "declare" it for what it is, automatically earns forgiveness. The hardest person to seek forgiveness from is yourself, and if you've managed to do so, then you're one step ahead of many.

It occurs to me, reading this thread and knowing what I know, that Carmel was perhaps singled out as a prime candidate for the "who" because of her strong desire to help people, her outspoken demeanor and her fierce determination to see all treated fairly, properly and with understanding and compassion.

Anyone else, "targeted" as a possible "who" would have had Carmel as a defender and supporter, unless I am very much mistaken.

And I will wager that those doing the "targeting" were aware of how fierce a "mother hen" she is when protecting and defending her family, associates and friends.

When attacked by a wolf pack it is smart to do away with the pack leader(s) first...at least that is what I was told by those who knew from experience.

I seem to have lost whatever internalized "back-off" I had with regard to walking into the org too.

Anyone else? :confused2: :D

Thank you Carmel, my love!:wink2:

Mike
 

Doom

Lurking.
Truly brave

This is just a shining example of true commitment to your own integrity, also massive bravery.
That you have to do what you did (bare all) to defend yourself from those cowards is truly insane, no one should have to.

Just for the record, the first thing that I did as a security guard was have "all" folders pulled (ethics, student, PC and even the central files folder) to gather all information on the "threat", so if you hear OSA saying we never ever do that with PC folders, OSA is "full of it", they do it (OSA) because I helped them to do it and did it myself, one day I might forgive myself.

We love you Carmy:thumbsup:
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
<snip>.. Having the emotional freedom now and a recently restored ‘self esteem’, has allowed me to divulge what really went down in that second interview, and give a better picture of how malicious their intent was and how insidious their actions were. It feels good to tell it how it was, and from an objective perspective where I can now see what actually was and is, as opposed to a subjective one (when I first posted about it) where I was still buying into what they wanted me to believe about myself.
I just discovered and read this post.. (I do miss out a lot ATM.. Too bloody busy.. Hard on a guy as lazy as I am!)

I'm at a loss for words! - But Panda said exactly what I would've in his answer:
Well done on completing this write-up, Carmel. You're a brave girl and we love you for it.

The treatment you received in this episode is the most odious example of reverse auditing I've ever heard of. Shane will one day hang his head in shame over this disgusting misuse of the tech.

The behaviour of that particularly demented RTC MAA is a perfect example of what Miscavige and his ilk would have liked us all to become, well maybe not ALL of us, there would have to be somebody left for them to humiliate and degrade in order to satisfy their own sadistic control-mania.
WTF is WRONG with that 'church'!? - Good thing it is imploding as we speak.

:grouch:
 

Happy Days

Silver Meritorious Patron
Dear Carmel

I've just finished reading your incredible story, I had to keep having a break as I found it very confronting and disturbing and could only assimulate your story in bite size pieces.

But I just gotta say... what a gutsy, amazing and inspirational lady you are. You have such strength and determination to overcome the many situations that life presented to you and for this alone I admire you so much.

You have busted through and survived the suppression of the Church and came out that other side realising that you are in control and that this suppressive group does not own you, they have no power, they are just individuals in uniforms living off a power trip .... sad existence indeed ... The day will come when these individuals will come to present time and realise :omg: :omg: :omg: what we are doing is so wrong .... and call a that's it ... until then we will make a stand for what is right.

So my friend...you are free... I applaud you and wish you all the best.:bighug:
 

DavidM

Patron with Honors
The atrocities going on within the CofS, aren’t just “make believe”, and few and far between in some remote place like the USA. They happen here to, and soon you’ll be hearing more from others, who have copped it hard in our own back yard.

:clap:
 
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