Techy II, OT VIII Is Defective (aka Techy II, The Return of the Tech Post)

Fairplay

Patron
:happydance: Keep pushing truth is what I say.:happydance:

"The truth shall set you free" someone wrote somewhere. :unsure:

I like this one: "The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth."

I dont know who invented that last quote but I like it.
once, I had to swear on a bible in a court case and was asked "Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?" I said "No, I cant." The judge looked at me and he just glared at me looking a little confused. So I clarified my answer.
I said "well, I dont know the WHOLE truth,Sir. He said, "Oh, look, just say I do." I said "Ok then."

Truth imparted, spurs more truth. No?

I havent done any OT Levels, I am just a mere mortal. In fact I am classified as an UNSTABLE SP by the DSA Melbourne. :dieslaughing:

I hope that I dont become stable though because that for me will mean I am a "Flat liner."
Certain folk at the church dont like me because I never learned how to be stable .:bigcry: My sense of humour, it seems, is only funny to me.
 

Fairplay

Patron
I know a guy who was on, or had completed, OT7 when he got declared an SP.
(I havent asked him if he completed the OT 7 or not.)
Pretty high functioning sort of bloke he is too.
He was declared over money. His money!
He is an Aussie with integrity.

He would be another FLAG casualty if he saw himself as a casualty. He doesnt.
But it peeves me that what was done to him financially was so GROSS.
 

Veda

Sponsor
It might be useful if those who have done "New OT8" (other than Marty R. & Pierre E. and their respective promoters/supporters) would come forward and describe what they did. (A few have to some extent, but is anyone comparing notes?)

Then these accounts could be compared.

That would be a start.

Since most "New OT 8s" don't seem to be able to talk or write about what they did on "New OT 8," this is entirely too vague.

There seems to have been no coherent "OT 8" - old or new - up to 1980ish, then, sometime later (1986/1987, I think) "New OT 8" is released on the Freewinds to much hoopla.

If some "tech" person or persons created or assembled a "New OT 8," around the mid 1980s, and then Miscavige "broke it in half," has anyone seen the other half?

Even though it might cause some to revert, somewhat, to the condition of Scientological hypno-dependence on every jot and tittle of Hubbard's words - or at least what are believed to be his words - since the topic is "New OT 8," it would be nice to have it, or its versions, described in detail, if possible.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
100% STANDARD, KSW, GAT, LRH-APPROVED END PHENOMENA OF OT VIII

"Wow! I feel really OT VIII!"

Sure, it's silly, but....

Think about it.

I actually believe this is the authentic EP of OT VIII. And every other level.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
100% STANDARD, KSW, GAT, LRH-APPROVED END PHENOMENA OF OT VIII PART II


"Wow! I feel really OT VIII PART II! And I
can't wait until some of you lower level beings
come up to my level so I can have someone to play
super theta, ethical, insouciant, OT VIII Part II games with!"
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Morbid curiosity...................

Is there anyone reading or posting on this thread that actually believes any part of OT VIII?

Perhaps I should not be opening up Pandora's Bridge.
 

Kha Khan

Patron Meritorious
Query and response from WWP

Query and response from WWP:

Does anyone think Miscavige is actually batshit crazy enough to be afraid to let anyone get the material in it's original form because the idiot thinks someone might actually get Hubbard nonsense to work as advertised and it won't be him. If he actually buys into this fucknuts bullshit he's more fucked in the head than Hubbard himself. How else do you explain withholding half of a pile of shit like OT8 and to call OT9, rather than just making up some more bullshit and calling it OT9

Making bullshit up requires some effort; whereas re-packaging existing Hub-shit is for free, and more moneys.
I think DM's problem might be something more than this.

The OT levels are bullshit, but they are (from a Scientological perspective) internally consistent well-done creative and entertaining bullshit. OT VIII is (from a Scientological perspective) internally consistent well-done creative and entertaining bullshit that is consistent with the prior bullshit. Also, as many people have noted, the OT levels concerning BTs are just 1950s sci-fi versions of prior, and indeed ancient, practices of exorcism dealing with demon possession. Hubbard tried to insert some depth, some meaning, even if it was borrowed and regurgitated.

The point is not that it is crap. The point is that not just anyone can write this crap. Not convincingly. Not entertainingly. Not convincingly and entertainingly enough for Scientologists. And certainly not DM.

No, to convincingly write this crap, one would have to be "technically" trained -- i.e., truly schooled in the mythology, history and "technology" of Scientology. And you would have to be able to insert some depth, some meaning, even if it was borrowed and regurgitated from prior philosophies, religions and practices.

Hubbard was, if anything, creative. The man had a wild imagination. And he was self-educated enough to "borrow" ancient ideas (e.g., exorcism, demon possession) and repackage them as then relatively new sci-fi ideas (Xenu, Implant stations on Mars).

DM does not have an imaginative or creative bone in his body. He is incapable on creating anything new. And certainly not anything new that is consistent with, and would meet the so-insane-it-makes-you-laugh-but-to-your-embarrassment-kind-of-entertaining standards of Hubbard. (Have you listened to Hubbard give one of his moonbatty sci-fi Scientology lectures? People laugh, applaud. His nuttiness is infectious. They are entertained. Admit it, so were you, even if only in a Mystery Science 3000 sort of away.) And DM is not educated enough to steal and repackage meaningful ideas [e.g., Zen => TRs; exorcism => BT eradication] into a new OT level.

While DM has rewritten a lot of Hubbard stuff over the years, it is always at the margins. A lot of deleting of now embarrassing material. Redefining the fricken floating needle. Nip and tuck, but no new designs. DM is like a seamstress who can alter someone else's clothing, but can't come up with an original design. The copy editor who never becomes a writer.

[Which may be one reason why DM hates LRH.]

DM has not created anything new. He has shown no evidence that he can.

I think the reason we have not seen OT IX, OT X, etc. (and why DM needed to save the second half of OT VIII to make OT IX in the future) is that DM is incapable of writing a convincing OT level, and no longer has anyone left in the COS who is "technically" able to do so. DM has driven out all of the Tech people who might be able to come up with OT IX, OT X, etc. If David Mayo were still in the COS, we'd have OT IX and OT X. DM alone?

For the love of Xenu, if Hubbard were still alive we would be on OT XXV by now, and people would be auditing nano-paticles in 12th dimension black-hole hyperspace (whatever the frick that means).

/
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Query and response from WWP:



I think DM's problem might be something more than this.

The OT levels are bullshit, but they are (from a Scientological perspective) internally consistent well-done creative and entertaining bullshit. OT VIII is (from a Scientological perspective) internally consistent well-done creative and entertaining bullshit that is consistent with the prior bullshit. Also, as many people have noted, the OT levels concerning BTs are just 1950s sci-fi versions of prior, and indeed ancient, practices of exorcism dealing with demon possession. Hubbard tried to insert some depth, some meaning, even if it was borrowed and regurgitated.

The point is not that it is crap. The point is that not just anyone can write this crap. Not convincingly. Not entertainingly. Not convincingly and entertainingly enough for Scientologists. And certainly not DM.

No, to convincingly write this crap, one would have to be "technically" trained -- i.e., truly schooled in the mythology, history and "technology" of Scientology. And you would have to be able to insert some depth, some meaning, even if it was borrowed and regurgitated from prior philosophies, religions and practices.

Hubbard was, if anything, creative. The man had a wild imagination. And he was self-educated enough to "borrow" ancient ideas (e.g., exorcism, demon possession) and repackage them as then relatively new sci-fi ideas (Xenu, Implant stations on Mars).

DM does not have an imaginative or creative bone in his body. He is incapable on creating anything new. And certainly not anything new that is consistent with, and would meet the so-insane-it-makes-you-laugh-but-to-your-embarrassment-kind-of-entertaining standards of Hubbard. (Have you listened to Hubbard give one of his moonbatty sci-fi Scientology lectures? People laugh, applaud. His nuttiness is infectious. They are entertained. Admit it, so were you, even if only in a Mystery Science 3000 sort of away.) And DM is not educated enough to steal and repackage meaningful ideas [e.g., Zen => TRs; exorcism => BT eradication] into a new OT level.

While DM has rewritten a lot of Hubbard stuff over the years, it is always at the margins. A lot of deleting of now embarrassing material. Redefining the fricken floating needle. Nip and tuck, but no new designs. DM is like a seamstress who can alter someone else's clothing, but can't come up with an original design. The copy editor who never becomes a writer.

[Which may be one reason why DM hates LRH.]

DM has not created anything new. He has shown no evidence that he can.

I think the reason we have not seen OT IX, OT X, etc. (and why DM needed to save the second half of OT VIII to make OT IX in the future) is that DM is incapable of writing a convincing OT level, and no longer has anyone left in the COS who is "technically" able to do so. DM has driven out all of the Tech people who might be able to come up with OT IX, OT X, etc. If David Mayo were still in the COS, we'd have OT IX and OT X. DM alone?

For the love of Xenu, if Hubbard were still alive we would be on OT XXV by now, and people would be auditing nano-paticles in 12th dimension black-hole hyperspace (whatever the frick that means).

/

I get the impression that DM is an obsessive-compulsive micro manager who gets absorbed in tiny tiny details, and can't look up to see the bigger picture. The existing OT levels are all OTIII, in my opinion. OTI and OTII warming up for it, and OTVII and VIII clearing up after it. Then it's hello void, the Bridge is out.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I get the impression that DM is an obsessive-compulsive micro manager who gets absorbed in tiny tiny details, and can't look up to see the bigger picture. The existing OT levels are all OTIII, in my opinion. OTI and OTII warming up for it, and OTVII and VIII clearing up after it. Then it's hello void, the Bridge is out.


DM should have just followed the "Successful Actions" per HCOPL Affluence Attainment. (e.g. not trying new or untried things, sticking with what worked and strengthening it....)

After the CLEAR hoax didn't work, Hubbard needed a new "reactive mind" so he just expanded on the successful actions (strengthened the reactive mind) by creating TRILLIONS of reactive minds (BTs) who each needed to be cleared. That was OT I, II, III, iV, V, VI, VII, VIII....

All BT's all the time!

COB should be able to see the simple fix.

BT's have BT's. They need to be handled too. It's like the RPF's RPF.

Sure, you blew those BTs (we don't want to invalidate your gains) but those blown BT's still have connective strings (com lines, theta connection, etc...) to other BT's that (unfortunately) you are perceiving. See how perceptive you are??! This new OT Level really validates you the being and your perception! It's not that something is wrong with you, it's that you are sooooo perceptive and OT that you are "picking up" the subtle flows, wavelengths and case of those BTs at the end of the silly string. Wow!

I could write the new OT LEVEL in LRH's style. I have no doubt Scientologists would have their greatest wins ever from it. Think I am kidding?


EDITED/ADDED: CHURCH OF THE PERPETUAL OT WINS
[ps: part of that new OT Level would include a way for OT IX's or X's to handle the fact that they still were exactly the same "abberated" humans as when they first walked into the CoS decades earlier. When the completed OT IX felt any "case" (somatics, misemotion, worry, stress, upset, enturbulation, etc...) in their daily life, they would have a little "TOOL" to use to handle it. That tool would get them spotting the source of the case and acknowledging that it comes from some other place (besides themselves). In other words, it would allow them to derail and dismiss all the times when they still experienced "case" by assigning it elsewhere so they would feel realllllly OT again. And it would include the disclaimer that those other peoples' cases are real and just because you are feeling all that case from them doesn't mean something is wrong---it means something is RIGHT! (you are extremely perceptive). And Ron would talk in that new OT Level about the "hidden standard" that some silly OT's used to have that they should not feel case any more. Ron will explain that it is natural for an OT to feel those other peoples' cases because one is alive! THUS THE NEW OT IX WOULD ALWAYS BE WINNING BECAUSE IF THEY DIDN'T FEEL CASE IT WOULD PROVE THEY ARE SUPER OT AND IF THEY DID FEEL CASE IT WOULD ALSO PROVE THAT THEY ARE SUPER OT BECAUSE THEY ARE PERCEIVING SOOOOO MUCH.]
 
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Carmel

Crusader
I find this a bit confusing or a bit odd.

While I can grant that there may be steps of OT8 that made sense or were maybe beneficial, from what I've read to date, it seems that "OT8" (per se) never really existed in the first place, so I don't see how ya could have half of it.

Ok, ya could have half of what was supposedly OT8, but what was OT8 in the first place? Wasn't it already half of something else or something just partially slapped together anyway?

Scam and all aside, weren't OT4, OT5, OT7, and OT8 mish mashes and/or extensions of other stuff put together essentially to make another saleable package, from all reports?

Anyways, if something didn't really exist or wasn't *complete* in the first place, then it's kinda weird to be talking about only having half of it.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I find this a bit confusing or a bit odd. While I can grant that there may be steps of OT8 that made sense or were maybe beneficial, from what I've read to date, it seems that "OT8" (per se) never really existed in the first place, so I don't see how ya could have half of it. Ok, ya could have half of what was supposedly OT8, but what was OT8 in the first place? Wasn't it already half of something else or something just partially slapped together anyway? Scam and all aside, weren't OT4, OT5, OT7, and OT8 mish mashes and/or extensions of other stuff put together essentially to make another saleable package, from all reports? Anyways, if something didn't really exist or wasn't *complete* in the first place, then it's kinda weird to be talking about only having half of it.


Why Soooooooooooo negative Carmie?!

I prefer to think of half the OT VIII glass as (not half-empty) but half-full of bullshit.

So therefore, it's not 100% bullshit, it's only 25% bullshit.

75% of Total Freedom is better than none!

I think like a Scientologist therefore I am winning! Try it! :D
 

DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
Time for Clarification

I have stated these points previously, but it seems they need to be looked at again.

First of all, there was NEVER an "old" OT8.

In 1968 in Valencia we had levels up to OT6. In the safe was an unissued procedure entitled "The Final Rundown". It involved universes.

Following the "missions" to St Hill, Hubbard, in one of his psychotic dummy-spitting tantrums, decided that the organisations were no longer going to take responsibility for their product. It was all on the pc/student. At the end of a level the person attested complete. False attestation = LIABILITY.

Second, the OT levels were NEVER intended for case gain. That was all supposed to occur on the GRADES. The purpose of the OT levels was THETAN REHABILITATION.

Third; Only 3 people genuinely completed the old OT6. There was a predetermined EP and physical evidence was required to prove complation. Bill Robertson, Otto Roos and myself were the only ones to complete the level correctly. Plenty of others "attested" to completion without delivering the required evidence.

Fourth; Hubbard realised that there was no way any of the candidates coming up through OT6 were going to be able to perform the drills on the Final Rundown. He ordered the materials destroyed (after the ship reversed into the harbour wall). Fortunately, as Chief of Advanced Courses, I had the safe access. Bill read the materials, Otto looked over them once. I studied them.

The essence of this level has been well covered by Alan Walter in his book "Gods in Disguise". If you want to know about universes then study that book.

No need for further comment.

Dart
 

Krautfag

Patron Meritorious
I have stated these points previously, but it seems they need to be looked at again.

First of all, there was NEVER an "old" OT8.

In 1968 in Valencia we had levels up to OT6. In the safe was an unissued procedure entitled "The Final Rundown". It involved universes.

Following the "missions" to St Hill, Hubbard, in one of his psychotic dummy-spitting tantrums, decided that the organisations were no longer going to take responsibility for their product. It was all on the pc/student. At the end of a level the person attested complete. False attestation = LIABILITY.

Second, the OT levels were NEVER intended for case gain. That was all supposed to occur on the GRADES. The purpose of the OT levels was THETAN REHABILITATION.

Third; Only 3 people genuinely completed the old OT6. There was a predetermined EP and physical evidence was required to prove complation. Bill Robertson, Otto Roos and myself were the only ones to complete the level correctly. Plenty of others "attested" to completion without delivering the required evidence.

Fourth; Hubbard realised that there was no way any of the candidates coming up through OT6 were going to be able to perform the drills on the Final Rundown. He ordered the materials destroyed (after the ship reversed into the harbour wall). Fortunately, as Chief of Advanced Courses, I had the safe access. Bill read the materials, Otto looked over them once. I studied them.

The essence of this level has been well covered by Alan Walter in his book "Gods in Disguise". If you want to know about universes then study that book.

No need for further comment.

Dart

I just love when Dart comes out the shades and gives decent info on how it all went down :)
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
These days I understand that some people just like to audit, but I think the OTI to OTVIII BT bridge is something that just came to mind for Hubbard, which he became obsessed by. As I said before, OTI - OTVIII is all OTIII and it's ramifications, and because it belonged to Hubbard it's an other-determined bridge. From what I've been told, OTVIII was cobbled together by DM's drones from a few pages of incomplete notes, so that's not gonna be great. Does anyone know otherwise? In my opinion, people who like to audit, might just as well go into session and audit a Philip K Dick or Robert Heinlein novel. They'd probably get reads, TA, F/N's and wins. If the meter reads on anything it's interest, so all you'd to do is go through your library and choose the book that gives you the biggest reads. Then you can happily audit away on androids and electric sheep. Why not? At least you get to choose the story, instead of having to run Hubbard's.
 

DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
Doing the level under control conditions, we were cut off completely from the outside world. We were in a confidential location and had to get a person in another country to send us a postcard. My person sent the card St Hill to be forwarded to me. What they had written was that they had no idea why they were sending me a card, but here it was anyway.

Dart
 

renegade

Silver Meritorious Patron
Doing the level under control conditions, we were cut off completely from the outside world. We were in a confidential location and had to get a person in another country to send us a postcard. My person sent the card St Hill to be forwarded to me. What they had written was that they had no idea why they were sending me a card, but here it was anyway.

Dart

Wow! That is pretty incredible. Was remote viewing abilities possible as well on the level?
 
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