Techy II, OT VIII Is Defective (aka Techy II, The Return of the Tech Post)

DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
Remote viewing was not part of the drill sequence, from what I remember. We just had to lay down and conduct the drills. I don't know if Bill or Otto turned any on, we never discussed it.

All I rember about completing it was having to wait about 5 days for the evidence to arrive. Bill checked out Otto, I checked out Bill and he checked me out. I do know that Hubbard was particularly pleased with the results.

The fact we were able to complete the action did prompt him to look into the trip "Test of Whole track Recall" ( Mission into time). However, as it turned out, a lot of the "findings" were faked.

After that voyage Hubbard gave a talk about their "experiences". The Supercargo, Sandy referred to it as "Test of wholetrack bullshit".

Dart
 

Terril park

Sponsor
I have stated these points previously, but it seems they need to be looked at again.

First of all, there was NEVER an "old" OT8.

In 1968 in Valencia we had levels up to OT6. In the safe was an unissued procedure entitled "The Final Rundown". It involved universes.

Following the "missions" to St Hill, Hubbard, in one of his psychotic dummy-spitting tantrums, decided that the organisations were no longer going to take responsibility for their product. It was all on the pc/student. At the end of a level the person attested complete. False attestation = LIABILITY.

Second, the OT levels were NEVER intended for case gain. That was all supposed to occur on the GRADES. The purpose of the OT levels was THETAN REHABILITATION.

Third; Only 3 people genuinely completed the old OT6. There was a predetermined EP and physical evidence was required to prove complation. Bill Robertson, Otto Roos and myself were the only ones to complete the level correctly. Plenty of others "attested" to completion without delivering the required evidence.

Fourth; Hubbard realised that there was no way any of the candidates coming up through OT6 were going to be able to perform the drills on the Final Rundown. He ordered the materials destroyed (after the ship reversed into the harbour wall). Fortunately, as Chief of Advanced Courses, I had the safe access. Bill read the materials, Otto looked over them once. I studied them.

The essence of this level has been well covered by Alan Walter in his book "Gods in Disguise". If you want to know about universes then study that book.

No need for further comment.

Dart

That you have anger and negativity re LRH seems quite natural.

Who wouldn't!

You come across to me though as biased in excess.

You and Alan stood on the old bastards shoulders.

You forgot to mention that Alan also had two postcards re OT 6.
 

Veda

Sponsor
The 'Exteriorization with full perception' thread, and a few other items, including the 'Bardo Thodol' thread which has some redundancy, and many no longer working videos. The main video, narrated by Leonard Cohen, still works (I'd tidy up, and shorten, this thread if it were possible, but it's been put in the 'attick'): http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=263818&postcount=103

Rosicrucian telepathy: http://books.google.com/books?id=o_...Ymuw7XF&sig=HNSwCEEHt2fDbDge2Iq82Y-Bl2M&hl=en

Some "OT" processes from the early 1900s: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=215566&postcount=164
 

Kha Khan

Patron Meritorious
Think that you are giving these space opera clowns a little bit more respect than is due.

"Well done creative"? C'mon K? Anyone with even half of a dinosaur-brain laughs at this shit.
You may be right. I may have over-stated my case. And I did so unnecessarily.

My central, TR;DR point remains -- Not just anyone can write a convincing OT level, much less one that that creates new material, new "juice," something to keep people coming back for more. And DM is not one of them. Hubbard was the creative story teller behind Scientology, and DM can't fill the role.

Let me speculate -- purely speculate -- about what a (pre-dementia) Hubbard might do when faced with the problem of an increasing number of OT8s with nothing left to do.

Perhaps Hubbard reads a book on Shamanism. Perhaps The Way of the Shaman by Michael Harner. Hubbard superficially learns an ancient spiritual tradition that 99.99% of Scientologists have never heard of. Now some shamanism (I took Harner's intro class years ago and read the book) involves spiritually (or visualizing) going "underground," encountering Power Animals (spiritual entities) and learning from them. Excellent! So Hubbard translates this for his overwhelmingly ignorant clientele in terms of not "space opera," but "underground opera." Maybe Hubbard encounters.... THE THIRD WALL OF FIRE after spiritually battling THE MOLE PEOPLE! The Mole People ("MPs") are what impinge on the Fourth dynamic! (We will save the Fifth, Sixth, Seventh and Eighth dynamic engrams for another story.) So now we learn, with the use of an e-meter, how to confront MOLE PEOPLE.

The above is ridiculous. Completely stupid. Does anyone doubt that Hubbard could pull this off? Remember, we are talking about a customer base that has already bought OTIII. That realizes that OT VIII was the first "real" OT level. And, unknown to Scientologists, the story, actions and procedure would incorporate shamanic practices that have been used, and people have for some reason found meaningful and rewarding, for thousands of years.

What does DM do when faced with the problem of an increasing number of OT8s with nothing left to do? Recycle them to the bottom of the bridge to do objectives. Pathetic. Even some of the most deluded adherents are asking, "WTF? Really? Objectives?"

*****

ps. Aren't you all glad I didn't stay in the COS and eventually take over for LRH? I'd be selling the hell out of Metered Shamanic Clearing of Mole People on the Fourth Dynamic.

****
 
Last edited:

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
More query and response from WWP:

You may be right. I may have over-stated my case. And I did so unnecessarily.

My central, TR;DR point remains -- Not just anyone can write a convincing OT level, much less one that that creates new material, new "juice," something to keep people coming back for more. And DM is not one of them. Hubbard was the creative story teller behind Scientology, and DM can't fill the role.

Let me speculate -- purely speculate -- about what a (pre-dementia) Hubbard might do when faced with the problem of an increasing number of OT8s with nothing left to do.

Perhaps Hubbard reads a book on Shamanism. Perhaps The Way of the Shaman by Michael Harner. Hubbard superficially learns an ancient spiritual tradition that 99.99% of Scientologists have never heard of. Now some shamanism (I took Harner's intro class years ago and read the book) involves spiritually (or visualizing) going "underground," encountering Power Animals (spiritual entities) and learning from them. Excellent! So Hubbard translates this for his overwhelmingly ignorant clientele in terms of not "space opera," but "underground opera." Maybe Hubbard encounters.... THE THIRD WALL OF FIRE after spiritually battling THE MOLE PEOPLE! The Mole People ("MPs") are what impinge on the Fourth dynamic! (We will save the Fifth, Sixth, Seventh and Eighth dynamic engrams for another story.) So now we learn, with the use of an e-meter, how to confront MOLE PEOPLE.

The above is ridiculous. Completely stupid. Does anyone one doubt that Hubbard could pull this off? Remember, we are talking about a customer base that has already bought OTIII. That realizes that OT VIII was the first "real" OT level. And, unknown to Scientologists, the story, actions and procedure would incorporate shamanic practices that have been used, and people have for some reason found meaningful and rewarding, for thousands of years.

What does DM do when hen faced with the problem of an increasing number of OT8s with nothing left to do? Recycle them to the bottom of the bridge to do objectives. And now some of the most deluded adherents are asking, "WTF? Really? Objectives?"

*****

ps. Aren't you all glad I didn't stay in the COS and eventually take over for LRH? I'd be selling the hell out of Metered Shamanic Clearing of Mole People on the Fourth Dynamic.

****

It's sad that anyone would want to be Hubbard but dm has had decades to take a crack at it and all he can do is rehash the same old shit. He can't even release the stuff that was supposed to come out.
 

FoTi

Crusader
I have stated these points previously, but it seems they need to be looked at again.

First of all, there was NEVER an "old" OT8.

In 1968 in Valencia we had levels up to OT6. In the safe was an unissued procedure entitled "The Final Rundown". It involved universes.

Following the "missions" to St Hill, Hubbard, in one of his psychotic dummy-spitting tantrums, decided that the organisations were no longer going to take responsibility for their product. It was all on the pc/student. At the end of a level the person attested complete. False attestation = LIABILITY.

Second, the OT levels were NEVER intended for case gain. That was all supposed to occur on the GRADES. The purpose of the OT levels was THETAN REHABILITATION.

Third; Only 3 people genuinely completed the old OT6. There was a predetermined EP and physical evidence was required to prove complation. Bill Robertson, Otto Roos and myself were the only ones to complete the level correctly. Plenty of others "attested" to completion without delivering the required evidence.

Fourth; Hubbard realised that there was no way any of the candidates coming up through OT6 were going to be able to perform the drills on the Final Rundown. He ordered the materials destroyed (after the ship reversed into the harbour wall). Fortunately, as Chief of Advanced Courses, I had the safe access. Bill read the materials, Otto looked over them once. I studied them.

The essence of this level has been well covered by Alan Walter in his book "Gods in Disguise". If you want to know about universes then study that book.

No need for further comment.

Dart

Did the ship reversing into the harbour wall have something to do with his ordering the materials to be destroyed?

Why did LRH think that those coming up thru OT VI wouldn't be able to do the drills when you 3 could do them and demonstrate what LRH wanted for the EP?
 

Carmel

Crusader
I have stated these points previously, but it seems they need to be looked at again.

First of all, there was NEVER an "old" OT8.

In 1968 in Valencia we had levels up to OT6. In the safe was an unissued procedure entitled "The Final Rundown". It involved universes.

Following the "missions" to St Hill, Hubbard, in one of his psychotic dummy-spitting tantrums, decided that the organisations were no longer going to take responsibility for their product. It was all on the pc/student. At the end of a level the person attested complete. False attestation = LIABILITY.

Second, the OT levels were NEVER intended for case gain. That was all supposed to occur on the GRADES. The purpose of the OT levels was THETAN REHABILITATION.

Third; Only 3 people genuinely completed the old OT6. There was a predetermined EP and physical evidence was required to prove complation. Bill Robertson, Otto Roos and myself were the only ones to complete the level correctly. Plenty of others "attested" to completion without delivering the required evidence.

Fourth; Hubbard realised that there was no way any of the candidates coming up through OT6 were going to be able to perform the drills on the Final Rundown. He ordered the materials destroyed (after the ship reversed into the harbour wall). Fortunately, as Chief of Advanced Courses, I had the safe access. Bill read the materials, Otto looked over them once. I studied them.

The essence of this level has been well covered by Alan Walter in his book "Gods in Disguise". If you want to know about universes then study that book.

No need for further comment.

Dart
Dart, thanks for this post and the ones which followed.

It does clarify, and partially confirm that the "OT8" which Jeff W spoke about "half of", wasn't what he or others thought it was, not that what it could or would have been much chop to the *average* Joe Bloe anyway.
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
So is there anything actually new in this thread? Something out of the ordinary for scientology to look for the money first instead of the result?
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
<snip...>
Third; Only 3 people genuinely completed the old OT6. There was a predetermined EP and physical evidence was required to prove complation. Bill Robertson, Otto Roos and myself were the only ones to complete the level correctly. Plenty of others "attested" to completion without delivering the required evidence.

<...snip>

Dart
Dart,

Just as a bit of additional information;

I, myself, actually sent a number of "unsolicited" postcards to friends doing OT Levels at SH during the late 70s. I had no idea (at the time) what prompted me to do so but did it anyway. I can name probably 4 or 5 people who received cards from me in a 3 year period. The first postcard I ever sent was to was my old Objectives Co-Audit partner, Neville Davis (now Declared SP).

Some years later, when I studied the EP of "old" OTVI I had a rather hearty laugh about it, I actually still had a "mystery point" on why I'd sent the postcards in the first place. Mystery solved. :)
 

Veda

Sponsor
I, myself, actually sent a number of "unsolicited" postcards to friends doing OT Levels at SH during the late 70s. I had no idea (at the time) what prompted me to do so but did it anyway. I can name probably 4 or 5 people who received cards from me in a 3 year period. The first postcard I ever sent was to was my old Objectives Co-Audit partner, Neville Davis (now Declared SP).

Some years later, when I studied the EP of "old" OTVI I had a rather hearty laugh about it, I actually still had a "mystery point" on why I'd sent the postcards in the first place. Mystery solved. :)

You probably should have submitted an OT Success Story to 'Advance!' magazine.

And, you know, it's never too late to say, "Thank you, Ron."
 

Veda

Sponsor
Dart, thanks for this post and the ones which followed.

It does clarify, and partially confirm that the "OT8" which Jeff W spoke about "half of", wasn't what he or others thought it was, not that what it could or would have been much chop to the *average* Joe Bloe anyway.

According to Pierre Ethier, Hubbard completed "New OT 8" in 1983, with the first part (the 1968/69 notes that Hubbard had told Scientologists were "OT 8"), being the part that Miscavige eliminated when he "cut OT 8 in half."

Add to this the statement from Hubbard, from January 1977, that "OT VIII has been in existence" for "several years," and that should be enough to "rehab" the Scientological "fixed glare" in at least some folks.

Here's one on whom it seems to have "worked." http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=398394&postcount=868

The former senior Case Supervisor International and Hubbard's former auditor, David Mayo, stated that there never was an old OT 8, and that promoting it for all those years on the Scientology Grade Chart was dishonest, as was Hubbard's announcement, in the 24 January 1977 HCOB, 'Tech Correction Round-Up', that:

"For a number of years people have wondered when OT VIII would be released.

"Well, to tell you the honest truth, OT VIII has been in existence all those several years, and to it has been added a very large number of OT grades. None of them have been issued. Notes for all these grades are in existence.

"What I have been waiting for is two or three months of free time to go over these materials and write them up and make them available through Advanced Organizations.

"Now I will make a bargain with you. If you get all the tech straightened out and the orgs and flaps and emergencies off my lines and get your training in and your Word Clearing in and everything flying and this civilization even more thoroughly pointed in a civilized direction, you will buy me those three months' worth of time so I will be able to afford the time to write up all these Advanced Levels I have researched. Do your job well and buy me these three months."

Just previous to writing the above, LRH had been preoccupied with overseeing the re-start of the covert Op to destroy journalist Paulette Cooper's life, re-named (from OP Dynamite to) Op Freak Out. That took up quite a bit of his time. (If Intel had done their jobs properly, and had successfully framed Cooper, and had her incarcerated in a mental institution, LRH might have had enough free time to release OT 8, then, but noooooo, the Scientologists let LRH down again...)

Two weeks after the above announcement re. OT 8, LRH wrote the HCOB 'Jokers and Degraders', and then, in May 1977, he wrote the HCOB, 'LSD, Years after they have come off of', concerning people who had ever taken LSD, "Apparently, they have become some sort of zombie to a greater or lesser extent," explained LRH, as he instructed that anyone who had ever taken LSD was to wear a rubber suit and run around for hours, days, and weeks, until he or she had sweated out all the "LSD crystals."

As is obvious to anyone, except those with massive overts against Mankind, LRH was inching ever closer and closer to total enlightenment and Full OT.
 

ULRC/S

Patron with Honors
This confirms what I have always thought in that a person should expect OT powers to turn on after completing OT VIII. After all, the valuable final product of OT VIII should be an operating thetan in every sense of the word if only a baby operating thetan. They should be able to do SOMETHING be it only levitating a cent coin.

Wht an insane presumption!

Why do you expect MEST skills from theta processes?

To gain MEST skills you need to DRILL them, and there are no "drills" in any current OT lineup.

LRH is very clear about this in the PDC tapes, where he spends several lectures describing DRILLs to start such skills. That the salespeople may have said things differently is of no concern of mine, and shouldn't be to you either.

The most powerful demo of "OT skills" as you would have them wasn't from any ""OT", but a Aikido Master, who I and several other karate students saw throw a 6 ft 180 pound black belt through the AIR and into a wall like he'd been hit by a bus - WITHOUT EVEN TOUCHING HIM!

This is what's possible from a lifetime of drilling!

As an OT I have developed many skills in the theta region which I didn't have before, and I'm very happy with them.

But they didn't come from the CoS's "OTVIII", as i quit the CoS after audited NOTs, I gained them with Bill Robertson's upper bridge.

Regards, Allen
 

rhill

Patron with Honors
Wht an insane presumption!

Why do you expect MEST skills from theta processes?

To gain MEST skills you need to DRILL them, and there are no "drills" in any current OT lineup.

Wow, this is a so much more sane presumption!
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
snipped ...


What an insane presumption!

Why do you expect MEST skills from theta processes?


To gain MEST skills you need to DRILL them, and there are no "drills" in any current OT lineup.



As an OT I have developed many skills in the theta region which I didn't have before, and I'm very happy with them.

Regards, Allen

Did you pay for em with MEST money?

Or wot.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I'd say people expect MEST skills from 'Theta Processes' because that's the entirety of Scientology's promise.

Of course, once that fails, practitioners have to scale back their expectations or face the failure.

Zinj
 
Top