Thank God for Dianetics!!!!!!!!!!!

Gib

Crusader
:thumbsup:
THAT sounds just like $cientology...


from Hazmat:


quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Hazmat

One thing I've learned about the anti-social. They refuse to acknowledge the context of others, and insist upon everything being put into their own context.

Maybe Hazmat can enlighten us on how many anti-social people he has met?

and maybe Hazmet can forward his observations of real people he has met to prove his point?

:roflmao:

Hazmet,

I postulate you become one of us,

somebody who has run scientology out,

and can live a life of your own,

and not hubbard's life.

Hey Dude,

be yourself.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
I would love to see that study.

You havn't researched it for yourself yet?

I would imagine they did not use the proper technique, for one.

They used the scientific technique and were assisted by L Ron Hubbard in the completion of the experiments which provided the data. Once the results were in, L Ron Hubbard never again subjected his "tech" to scientific testing, changed the definitions of what constituted an "Engram", and commenced an on-going attack on academics and formal education generally. He also introduced the "e-meter" stage-prop which he used as "proof" of Engrams. Following the NYU study he knew he needed something.

For two, engrams have to be fairly substantial, in order to be so much as noticed by the subject. Recalling a pinch, isn't going to do much. It's not a substantial amount of pain.

DOX PLOX

Here's how I see a proper study being done.

1. Choose subjects who have noticeably high degrees of mis-emotion. Manic, depressed or both.

2. Have them think about those subjects or incidents, and ask them to let you know when their emotions are about at their peak.

3. At this point, ask them if there are any physical sensations that they can locate and identify.

4. If so, ask them if they can allow it to intensify, and let you know if it does.

5. Also tell them to allow whatever thoughts come into mind, and if it has an impact on the sensation.

Sounds simple. In the 60 years since the New York University experiments Scientology hasn't presented a single such study for publication, let alone peer review. Can you guess why?

Now, when I was about 8, I had a bicycle accident and my chin was split open and required stitches. The doctor, stuck a needle right smack into the area, with a local anesthetic. And it took three or four. Believe me when I say, it as very painful.

That incident, in part, was what I was going through the other day, when I wrote this post. It has come up before in recalls, but I've never been able to get in there, to any great extent. The area had pain shut off, as far as recall, and refused to give up any physiological data.

Until tonite when the chin area is experiencing muscular throbbing and twitching, and a slight tweak of pain. After all these years, it's finally "remembering".

Now, I don't know what an auditor could ever have done to accelerate the process. Not a word was spoken, the entire time. The body, just wasn't going to talk about it, other than keep trying to discharge it through the cranium.

Well, that's the best I can do to describe it, for the moment. I do have numerous incidents were the cranium was used as the point of origin of pain, and clash with the above incident, or something.

The key, it seems to me, is to be able to get the somatic talking and expressing it's self. Once it's done that, fully and completely, there's nothing left. Any other "data", is purely incidental. The force of an engram, relies entirely upon the force of physiological sensation.

Handy hint: anecdotes are not data.
 
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Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I would love to see that study. I would imagine they did not use the proper technique, for one. For two, engrams have to be fairly substantial, in order to be so much as noticed by the subject. Recalling a pinch, isn't going to do much. It's not a substantial amount of pain.

Here's how I see a proper study being done.

1. Choose subjects who have noticeably high degrees of mis-emotion. Manic, depressed or both.

2. Have them think about those subjects or incidents, and ask them to let you know when their emotions are about at their peak.

3. At this point, ask them if there are any physical sensations that they can locate and identify.

4. If so, ask them if they can allow it to intensify, and let you know if it does.

5. Also tell them to allow whatever thoughts come into mind, and if it has an impact on the sensation.

Now, when I was about 8, I had a bicycle accident and my chin was split open and required stitches. The doctor, stuck a needle right smack into the area, with a local anesthetic. And it took three or four. Believe me when I say, it as very painful.

That incident, in part, was what I was going through the other day, when I wrote this post. It has come up before in recalls, but I've never been able to get in there, to any great extent. The area had pain shut off, as far as recall, and refused to give up any physiological data.

Until tonite when the chin area is experiencing muscular throbbing and twitching, and a slight tweak of pain. After all these years, it's finally "remembering".

Now, I don't know what an auditor could ever have done to accelerate the process. Not a word was spoken, the entire time. The body, just wasn't going to talk about it, other than keep trying to discharge it through the cranium.

Well, that's the best I can do to describe it, for the moment. I do have numerous incidents were the cranium was used as the point of origin of pain, and clash with the above incident, or something.

The key, it seems to me, is to be able to get the somatic talking and expressing it's self. Once it's done that, fully and completely, there's nothing left. Any other "data", is purely incidental. The force of an engram, relies entirely upon the force of physiological sensation.

"MISEMOTION"??

Anyone that has had a traumatic experience would have EMOTION that is appropriate for the trauma. Scientologist's think that "grief" after someone dies is "misemotional". Anger after finding out their "religion" was a complete hoax, a fraud and a scam is "misemotional". Serenity of Being-ness after giving their entire IRA retirement fund to the IAS is "appropriate emotion".:no:

See - Scientology is the opposite of what it should be - that is how you know it is Scientology!!:yes:

Oh, did you know that L Ron Hubbard's complete biography is a LIE? That makes all of his work including Dianetic's and Scientology a LIE.:yes:
 

Hazmat

Patron with Honors
"MISEMOTION"??

Anyone that has had a traumatic experience would have EMOTION that is appropriate for the trauma. Scientologist's think that "grief" after someone dies is "misemotional". Anger after finding out their "religion" was a complete hoax, a fraud and a scam is "misemotional". Serenity of Being-ness after giving their entire IRA retirement fund to the IAS is "appropriate emotion".:no:

See - Scientology is the opposite of what it should be - that is how you know it is Scientology!!:yes:

Oh, did you know that L Ron Hubbard's complete biography is a LIE? That makes all of his work including Dianetic's and Scientology a LIE.:yes:

No, Scientologists do NOT thing that grief after someone dies, is misemotional. At least that I know of. Grief, is EXPECTED, after loss.

Two, I'm not advocating current practice. Or, can you not read as well? And I've NEVER advocated Hubbard, himself.

Again, the anti-social cannot deal with mere discussions, beyond their own petty and small contexts. SMH
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
What do you mean, subjective? You not seriously saying that a person cannot be objective about their personal experiences, are you? If so, then your eval of your own experiences, is just as useless.

At any rate, here's the full scope of how Dianetics and Scientology PRINCIPLES, not necessarily methods, have helped me.

From agoraphobia, to emotional stability. This was accomplished simply by allowing fear to occur, and fully experiencing it.

However, the underlying cause of the "fear", was physiological in the sense of subconscious memory, due to engrams. I thought once the fear went away, that's all there was to engrams, and that was that. There was nothing more to it than emotion.

I then woke up one night, to being shivering cold on the top half of my body, and burning hot on the lower part. And a deep sense of fear. This was in about '88.

From then on, it's been a journey of increased physiological pain, in every area of my body. Which comes and goes.

It then became a matter of sheer survival. Never mind increased ability. I could care less. Just let me make it through the day.

At any rate, I will allow the somatic to fully express it's self. If it will. It usually doesn't and I get bounced out of or not allowed into, the full incident. Just watery images of what occurred.

So, no. Dianetics isn't all it's cracked up to be, by Scientologists. There's a lot more to it. At least in my case.

I remember back in about '80, being told I was an illegal pc, because my body didn't sweat enough to be sessionable. And asked if I'd ever been subject to electro-shock, etc.. And that was the reason for my chronic fatigue. My body wouldn't sweat, and would over heat, and I needed to be very careful about exerting myself too much.

Today, I was sweating in my underarms. A rarity. The only place I've ever sweated much, is in my feet.

At any rate, there are NUMEROUS incidents, of which I had no memory of afterwards. However, various police departments, and government officials, did. And like I say, in '88, they began to come back.

I would have no way of making sense of these memories, were it not for the concept of dianetics.

Subjective wins.............LOL

All wins from Dianetics are subjective from an experience PC POV. The auditor is just looking for an FN. Anyone can fake an FN. It's been proven by many..

You may want to look this over regarding the e-meter, the metab issue and just in general...Interesting article.

``By itself, this meter does nothing.''
Excerpt from a disclaimer found in every E-meter book, and on the device itself.
http://scientologyexposed.50megs.com/emeter.html

Now about those hot and cold sensations you described... have you ever had them checked by a neurologist? People with MS ( relapsing and remitting MS ) sometimes get these these type sensations, sometimes resulting in the feeling of fear...

FYI,

Sensory Symptoms of MS
SENSORY SYMPTOMS

Because MS is an illness based on symptoms, sensory problems are no exception. The following listing outlines the various sensory problems that occur as a result of MS:

Dysethesia
This symptom produces a burning, aching and tingling discomfort that commonly occurs in the limbs.

Fatigue
Fatigue is a common and sometimes the most disabling of symptoms. Fatigue occurs in four forms:
Normal Fatigue – from vigorous activity;
Short-Circuiting Fatigue – Damaged nerves tire with use, resulting in diminished function.;
Lassitude Fatigue – An overwhelming feeling of exhaustion after little or no activity;
Depression – Fatigue that occurs as a result of depression.

Hot and Cold Sensations
These sensations can occur in various parts of the body where demyelination has occurred.

Pruritis (Itching)
This is one of the abnormal sensations such as burning or stabbing pains that may be experienced by people with MS.

L’hermitte’s Sign
Is a symptom related to disease in the cervical region of the spinal cord. A tingling, shock like sensation passes down the arms or trunk when the neck is flexed.

Numbness, Tingling, Vibration Sensations
The above are common sensory symptoms that occur when nerves that transmit the feeling do not conduct properly. There are no medications to ease these symptoms.

Pain
At one time, pain was not associated as a symptom of MS. Currently, research has concluded that pain is indeed a symptom. Many persons with MS report significant pain. Pain results from the short-circuiting in the neuron pathways that carry electrical impulses in the brain and spinal cord.

Proprioceptive
Loss of awareness of location of body parts.

Trigeminal Neuralgia
The trigeminal nerve is the fifth largest cranial nerve. When the trigeminal nerve is affected, it produces a severe burning or stabbing facial pain often following the course of the nerve.

Sensory symptoms can be managed rather effectively with the use of medication. Speaking with your physician about various treatment options is beneficial to the patient in helping to ease various symptoms. Participating in a rehabilitation program also enables the patient in maintaining control over MS. A neurologist, family doctor, or other health care professional will be able to refer you to a rehabilitation program that is beneficial.
http://www.mscentralsupport.com/sensory-symptoms-of-ms/

Medical attention should be sought first and repeatedly until a cause is found for such body issues.. Only after everything is ruled out should one go delving for a spiritual or psychosomatic issue. Hubbard made many false claims about Dianetics curing diseases and such.. that lead to the general attitude that the issues must be in one's head or to be 'handled' in session. Rule MS out, rule out a neurological cause, then dig. I really mean this.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
I don't have to prove anything. I'm talking about my own experiences.

Sure you are . . .

Now, I'm sure that if you've ever experienced those things, you understand that these are not things easily ignored. Sure. You can be at work and have a deadline, and have to combat a craving to get something to eat or drink, or go out and have a smoke. And the more you try to put it off, the stronger it gets. Well, sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. But it is a battle. For sure.

Running a heavily charged engram, takes a lot of skill.

You people, have no concept of what that is.

Running a heavily ABBERATED engram, takes even more.

But, you folks go ahead. Think you have all the answers.

All I'm doing is talking about the body's ability to store physiological sensations, and it's ability to store them, beyond the knowingness of the mind. Thus, the subconscious.

One thing I've learned about the anti-social. They refuse to acknowledge the context of others, and insist upon everything being put into their own context.

And the common notion that the anti-social works alone, is false. The anti-social relies upon others who are similar in nature, to prove they work well with others and thus have a legitimate viewpoint, etc..

Thus, a person who is isolated and alone, is PTS. And whilst posing a more immediate danger, is not the long term solution to the problem.

. . . discussing your own personal experiences is one thing, but bursting into tears and applying ad homs after being called out for making assertions without basis indicates the frame of reference for explaining your experiences is indefensible.


Evidence for the existence of Engrams, then we can move on to its characteristics. Such a discussion would assist you greatly in understanding and interpreting your experiences. Alternatively, I would welcome your thoughts on PTS and how a person's isolation contributes to it.
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
<snip>
Now about those hot and cold sensations you described... have you ever had them checked by a neurologist? People with MS ( relapsing and remitting MS ) sometimes get these these type sensations, sometimes resulting in the feeling of fear...

FYI,


http://www.mscentralsupport.com/sensory-symptoms-of-ms/

Medical attention should be sought first and repeatedly until a cause is found for such body issues.. Only after everything is ruled out should one go delving for a spiritual or psychosomatic issue. Hubbard made many false claims about Dianetics curing diseases and such.. that lead to the general attitude that the issues must be in one's head or to be 'handled' in session. Rule MS out, rule out a neurological cause, then dig. I really mean this.
(my bold)

I confirm your list of MS-related symptoms (I've had 'em all, although not all at the same time) and I support your advice. :yes:
 

Hazmat

Patron with Honors
Medical attention should be sought first and repeatedly until a cause is found for such body issues.. Only after everything is ruled out should one go delving for a spiritual or psychosomatic issue. Hubbard made many false claims about Dianetics curing diseases and such.. that lead to the general attitude that the issues must be in one's head or to be 'handled' in session. Rule MS out, rule out a neurological cause, then dig. I really mean this.

Well, so what? You really mean this? LOL. And of course the emeter, does nothing, all by it's self. No one ever said it did. It merely registers a result.

At any rate. A psychosomatic cause, SHOULD be first considered, because it's the simplest explanation. And could quite possibly explain ms.

Lastly, you listed a number of diagnostic material, but ZERO cause, or treatments.

So, because various institutions can describe a disorder in various ways and all agree on the description of a disorder, they are some sort of authority?

Uh, no. To be an authority in any field of the treatment of human disorders, MUST account to description, cause and treatment.

Otherwise, they hold an opinion that they ascribe to and advocate. Period.

And yes. I've been to neurologists. All three had their own opinion of what neurology was about. None of which had anything to do with muscular reactivity.

Oh, well...............LOL
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
I don't have to prove anything. I'm talking about my own experiences.

Next?

You mean like your visit to a chiropractor? You said:
Basically, he rather violently twisted my legs and such, then put his hand to my throat and told me, "We're going to kill you", or something.

Oh, pulllleeeease. Give me a break!
You expect ME to believe that?

Why are you here on this message board, anyway?
What are you looking for?
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well, here's your mistake. I'm not talking about what Hubbard said. I'm talking about my own experiences. And, with no one, except you clowns, telling me what those experiences are about.

All I'm doing is talking about the body's ability to store physiological sensations, and it's ability to store them, beyond the knowingness of the mind. Thus, the subconscious.

Now, I really would refrain from this topic, if you can't handle a full range of discussion. If all you can manage is to stomp your feet, pound your hands, scream and yell, "IT DOESN'T WORK!, IT DOESN'T WORK!!!", I dunno..........LOL

and it turns out the 'evil' psychology addresses this stuff with the concept of 'body sense memory' (although addressed with other terms in different incarnations).... have to admit, I kind of had a meltdown when the leader of a rape support group showed me the info, and lo and behold.... a lot of the stuff was out way before Hubs ever put out Dianetics. I got sold that it was just Hubs who 'had the clue'.

Funny... good old group therapy worked on it (and being 'Clear', I probably should have been able to 'as-is' the rapes)... I was still wrestling with BS that Dianetics had supposedly handled when I left the cult in addition to new stuff that happened...
 

Hazmat

Patron with Honors
and it turns out the 'evil' psychology addresses this stuff with the concept of 'body sense memory' (although addressed with other terms in different incarnations).... have to admit, I kind of had a meltdown when the leader of a rape support group showed me the info, and lo and behold.... a lot of the stuff was out way before Hubs ever put out Dianetics. I got sold that it was just Hubs who 'had the clue'.

Funny... good old group therapy worked on it (and being 'Clear', I probably should have been able to 'as-is' the rapes)... I was still wrestling with BS that Dianetics had supposedly handled when I left the cult in addition to new stuff that happened...

As is the rapes? You make it sound like it's an instantaneous thing. I'm not advocating that, if that is what you are implying.

I'm merely advocating, confronting strong and compulsive emotions. And, identifying them.

Two, where do you think they stem from?

Three, are there accompanying physical sensations.

Four, do you try to shut out these thoughts and emotions, or are you willing to go through them and allow yourself to see how it is you were affected then, and subsequently, and now, and in th future.
 

Hazmat

Patron with Honors
Evidence for the existence of Engrams, then we can move on to its characteristics. Such a discussion would assist you greatly in understanding and interpreting your experiences. Alternatively, I would welcome your thoughts on PTS and how a person's isolation contributes to it.

Uh, you're not a doctor, or have any such training, so please refrain from prescribing what is good or not, for me.

Proof of that, is on the last line. You really question how isolation contributes to PTSness? Wow.

THEY HAVE NO CONNECTION TO PEOPLE SO FEEL NOTHING FOR THEIR WELL BEING AND WILL KILL THEM INDISCRIMINATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!

LMAO
 
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