The Aftermath Last Night

Tanchi

Patron with Honors
"In a way people can understand."

Yes! People from many mindsets.

The draw (for me) after reading Troublemaker, was the abuse, particularly child sexual abuse. It's an extremely personal issue for me.

Being raised in a Protestant Christian culture, steeped in those lessons, it had been difficult for me to comprehend different viewpoints.
Following Aftermath has been a journey for me.

I never paid Leah much attention, until I read her book. I saw she is more than the hair, the fabulous nails, and her figure. That's superficial and transient.

Her spirit shines through in this endeavor.

I appreciate Mike Rinder's eloquence. He has the background from trenches to Corporate to trenches Co$ that enables him to convey Hubbard's doctrine and indoctrination so people like me can understand.

And those folks can educate their children, communities, school systems to spread cult awareness.
Hopefully children will be saved from the horrific abuses described in 3 seasons of Aftermath, and 10 (?) Years of reporting from the UB, OB. (If there are more.. I'm not aware of them)

Hopefully, those not spared will find the courage it takes to
*acknowledge to themselves it happened
*come forward and report it, in spite of the years of shadows and shame. And fear and self-loathing.

Aftermath touched a lot of people in many different ways. Its not just about McSavage.
 
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Veda

Sponsor
"You can always be sure that even when you hear nothing publicly stated, there is plenty going on in the background that for various reasons we cannot announce. We like to surprise scientology with our next moves. Sometimes we have to bide our time so others can do what they need to do to get their ducks in a row. And then law enforcement and lawyers often don’t want anything said in public"

There is nothing wrong with being skeptical of a sociopathic master manipulator like Mike Rinder.

Never forget that he ran osa for 22 years for David Miscavige.

As I've mentioned before, I'm not a fanboy of Mike Rinder, but I do appreciate the good he's done, and the truths he's told, in the last few years.

You know very well that the 22 year number you use incessantly is incorrect, yet you continue to use it.

-snip-

remember that David Miscavige is still in power, still doing whatever he wants to scientologists. No federal investigation. No tax exemption review.

-snip-
For the last twenty days you've repeatedly insisted that the Scientology cult is a "minority religion."

The last thing you want for the Scientology cult is to have its tax exemption reviewed.

Who do you think you're kidding?
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
He never lets the facts get in the way of forwarding his narrative. He’s consistent in that regard.
Of all the revisionist history that Mike Rinder has engaged in since he "blew" 11 years ago, his own timeline and the posts he's held, when and where, is the most obfuscated, the most "shore-storied" revisionist history in Scientology existence.

He seems to have been in the Hole whenever OSA did something illegal. He even told me once how "compartmentalized" OSA was. At another time he told me "I was just a former spokesman! They would have NEVER told me all the bad shit they did!"

Mike Rinder is a liar. He was a liar while he was in the Church, and he still approaches his work that way. He has lied his whole career. And if you weren't such a fanboy cheerleader, allowing yourself to be emotionally manipulated just like you were in the church - you'd be able to see that.

Are you familiar with an affidavit that Marty presented in the Ken Dandar trial? Mike's never mentioned it.

Why?

Here is a relevant excerpt. You really should read the whole thing though. Marty lays out how they corrupted the entire justice system in Pinellas County, too. Which continues to be incredibly important information - especially in the cover up of the murder of Kyle Brennan.

This part is just the daily routine of Marty, Mike, and Dave, and how they worked together - for 22 years.

17. “The Office of Special Affairs (OSA) is the legal, public relations, and intelligence network of CSI. One or more network representatives are employed by every Scientology organization across the world. Each of them is operated and managed by OSA International (OSA INT) which is housed within CSI. Although OSA is formally answerable to CSI’s management, from OSA’s inception in the early 1980s, until my departure in December 2004, the formal management structure was a sham. OSA was carefully micromanaged by David Miscavige. he exercised his control through me, Inspector General of RTC, and Mike Rinder, Commanding Officer of OSA International.

18. “Between 1982 and 2004, it was my job to act as a go-between for Miscavige and OSA. The manner in which we shielded Miscavige was elaborate. Much of Miscavige’s control of OSA was done “off the record.” Every evening I would receive an intelligence briefing in writing from OSA. The briefing was usually several pages summarizing reports from private investigators and Scientologists serving as undercover spies watching and interacting with Scientology critics. The written briefing, contrary to established corporate policy, had no routing information on it. That is, the daily briefing had no indication who wrote the report or who it was directed to. If a report ever got out of the Church, it could not, on its face, be used to incriminate any of its author or recipients.

19. “After I read the report each day, I was instructed by Miscavige to put it into a fresh envelope with no routing information on it. I then personally carried the envelope into Miscavige’s office and set it on his desk. I was the only person in Scientology, aside from his wife and secretary, ever authorized such access to his desk. When Mr. Miscavige read the reports, he would enter my office with the report in hand. He would say ‘beat it’ to my secretary or anyone else who happened to be in my office. Once any visitors had left, Mr. Miscavige would discuss the contents of the report. Often, he would instruct me to order OSA to direct an operative or private investigator to find out something to do concerning the target of infiltration or investigation. On other occasions, Mr. Miscavige would joke about what was reported about a particular target, or rant about the target’s activity. When Miscavige was done discussing the daily OSA briefing with me, he would throw the report on my desk. That was my cue to pick it up and shred it after he left the office and before anyone was permitted to return to my office.

20. “For 22 years, my schedule was to wake up at least an hour before David Miscavige’s scheduled wake up time so that I could collect all important information on any matter of concern to him being handled by the OSA network. Every morning, I was required to brief Miscavige verbally on any major developments on matters handled by the OSA network around the world or matters concerning security. My briefing to him would begin with major problems which he insisted he know about. My briefing included reports about handling the media stories, investigations, legal cases, security breaches, and potential security situations. That briefing would last anywhere from a few minutes on a quiet day with no major developments, to all day when something was afoot that riveted Miscavige’s attention. Miscavige would issue orders to OSA that I had to accurately note on paper.

21. “After the conference with Miscavige, there were a number of options available for issuing his orders, depending on their scope and the level of security required. Most often, I would call Mike Rinder, into my office and I would brief him verbally on Miscavige’s directives. Mr. Rinder would then return to his own office and type up the orders as written directives to OSA. Those directives would be worded as if the orders were originated by him, with no reference to me or RTC, and especially not to Mr. Miscavige. On many occasions, Mr. Miscavige would require Mr. Rinder’s presence during briefings in which he wanted more detail than usual, or wanted to issue more detailed orders than usual. In such cases, it would be my responsibility to follow up to verify that Mr. Rinder relayed Mr. Miscavige’s orders to OSA as Rinder’s own orders.

22. “Mr. Rinder and I were ordered by Mr. Miscavige to keep secret virtually all of our communications, and to specifically keep them secret from any other managers or staff with CSI and RTC. All other CSI managers had little to no knowledge of any matters affecting Scientology from the world outside of the Church. Except for OSA staff, Sea Org members have little contact with the media or the world outside of their corporate duties.

https://tonyortega.org/2013/09/05/m...y-leader-david-miscavige-lied-to-texas-court/
 
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Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

Mike Rinder is a liar. He was a liar while he was in the Church, and he still approaches his work that way. He has lied his whole career.

-snip-
Are you channeling Miscavige?

David-Miscavige-at-the-op-001-1.jpg
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Of all the revisionist history that Mike Rinder has engaged in since he "blew" 11 years ago, his own timeline and the posts he's held, when and where, is the most obfuscated, the most "shore-storied" revisionist history in Scientology existence.

He seems to have been in the Hole whenever OSA did something illegal. He even told me once how "compartmentalized" OSA was. At another time he told me "I was just a former spokesman! They would have NEVER told me all the bad shit they did!"

Mike Rinder is a liar. He was a liar while he was in the Church, and he still approaches his work that way. He has lied his whole career. And if you weren't such a fanboy cheerleader, allowing yourself to be emotionally manipulated just like you were in the church - you'd be able to see that.

Are you familiar with an affidavit that Marty presented in the Ken Dandar trial? Mike's never mentioned it.

Why?

Here is a relevant excerpt. You really should read the whole thing though. Marty lays out how they corrupted the entire justice system in Pinellas County, too. Which continues to be incredibly important information - especially in the cover up of the murder of Kyle Brennan.

This part is just the daily routine of Marty, Mike, and Dave, and how they worked together - for 22 years.

17. “The Office of Special Affairs (OSA) is the legal, public relations, and intelligence network of CSI. One or more network representatives are employed by every Scientology organization across the world. Each of them is operated and managed by OSA International (OSA INT) which is housed within CSI. Although OSA is formally answerable to CSI’s management, from OSA’s inception in the early 1980s, until my departure in December 2004, the formal management structure was a sham. OSA was carefully micromanaged by David Miscavige. he exercised his control through me, Inspector General of RTC, and Mike Rinder, Commanding Officer of OSA International.

18. “Between 1982 and 2004, it was my job to act as a go-between for Miscavige and OSA. The manner in which we shielded Miscavige was elaborate. Much of Miscavige’s control of OSA was done “off the record.” Every evening I would receive an intelligence briefing in writing from OSA. The briefing was usually several pages summarizing reports from private investigators and Scientologists serving as undercover spies watching and interacting with Scientology critics. The written briefing, contrary to established corporate policy, had no routing information on it. That is, the daily briefing had no indication who wrote the report or who it was directed to. If a report ever got out of the Church, it could not, on its face, be used to incriminate any of its author or recipients.

19. “After I read the report each day, I was instructed by Miscavige to put it into a fresh envelope with no routing information on it. I then personally carried the envelope into Miscavige’s office and set it on his desk. I was the only person in Scientology, aside from his wife and secretary, ever authorized such access to his desk. When Mr. Miscavige read the reports, he would enter my office with the report in hand. He would say ‘beat it’ to my secretary or anyone else who happened to be in my office. Once any visitors had left, Mr. Miscavige would discuss the contents of the report. Often, he would instruct me to order OSA to direct an operative or private investigator to find out something to do concerning the target of infiltration or investigation. On other occasions, Mr. Miscavige would joke about what was reported about a particular target, or rant about the target’s activity. When Miscavige was done discussing the daily OSA briefing with me, he would throw the report on my desk. That was my cue to pick it up and shred it after he left the office and before anyone was permitted to return to my office.

20. “For 22 years, my schedule was to wake up at least an hour before David Miscavige’s scheduled wake up time so that I could collect all important information on any matter of concern to him being handled by the OSA network. Every morning, I was required to brief Miscavige verbally on any major developments on matters handled by the OSA network around the world or matters concerning security. My briefing to him would begin with major problems which he insisted he know about. My briefing included reports about handling the media stories, investigations, legal cases, security breaches, and potential security situations. That briefing would last anywhere from a few minutes on a quiet day with no major developments, to all day when something was afoot that riveted Miscavige’s attention. Miscavige would issue orders to OSA that I had to accurately note on paper.

21. “After the conference with Miscavige, there were a number of options available for issuing his orders, depending on their scope and the level of security required. Most often, I would call Mike Rinder, into my office and I would brief him verbally on Miscavige’s directives. Mr. Rinder would then return to his own office and type up the orders as written directives to OSA. Those directives would be worded as if the orders were originated by him, with no reference to me or RTC, and especially not to Mr. Miscavige. On many occasions, Mr. Miscavige would require Mr. Rinder’s presence during briefings in which he wanted more detail than usual, or wanted to issue more detailed orders than usual. In such cases, it would be my responsibility to follow up to verify that Mr. Rinder relayed Mr. Miscavige’s orders to OSA as Rinder’s own orders.

22. “Mr. Rinder and I were ordered by Mr. Miscavige to keep secret virtually all of our communications, and to specifically keep them secret from any other managers or staff with CSI and RTC. All other CSI managers had little to no knowledge of any matters affecting Scientology from the world outside of the Church. Except for OSA staff, Sea Org members have little contact with the media or the world outside of their corporate duties.

https://tonyortega.org/2013/09/05/m...y-leader-david-miscavige-lied-to-texas-court/
Let's see if I understand this:
  • The local OSA agent (first-hand) reported to the local DSA "something". That's second-hand.
  • The DSA reports were collected by Marty. That's third-hand.
  • Marty reported to Miscavige and then relayed the subsequent orders to Mike. That's fourth-hand.
Did I get that right? So Mike's knowledge of these crimes was fourth-hand, condensed, summarized, sanitized, whatever?

Mike has said he has told the FBI what he knows.

And Marty, who had the full data and has not disclosed that information, remains, in your universe, a good guy?

Just making sure I "have all the facts".

EDIT: Got my "hands" wrong.
EDIT: Not defending Mike.
 
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Veda

Sponsor
Of all the revisionist history that Mike Rinder has engaged in since he "blew" 11 years ago, his own timeline and the posts he's held, when and where, is the most obfuscated, the most "shore-storied" revisionist history in Scientology existence.

He seems to have been in the Hole whenever OSA did something illegal. He even told me once how "compartmentalized" OSA was. At another time he told me "I was just a former spokesman! They would have NEVER told me all the bad shit they did!"

Mike Rinder is a liar. He was a liar while he was in the Church, and he still approaches his work that way. He has lied his whole career. And if you weren't such a fanboy cheerleader, allowing yourself to be emotionally manipulated just like you were in the church - you'd be able to see that.

Are you familiar with an affidavit that Marty presented in the Ken Dandar trial? Mike's never mentioned it.

Why?

Here is a relevant excerpt. You really should read the whole thing though. Marty lays out how they corrupted the entire justice system in Pinellas County, too. Which continues to be incredibly important information - especially in the cover up of the murder of Kyle Brennan.

This part is just the daily routine of Marty, Mike, and Dave, and how they worked together - for 22 years.

17. “The Office of Special Affairs (OSA) is the legal, public relations, and intelligence network of CSI. One or more network representatives are employed by every Scientology organization across the world. Each of them is operated and managed by OSA International (OSA INT) which is housed within CSI. Although OSA is formally answerable to CSI’s management, from OSA’s inception in the early 1980s, until my departure in December 2004, the formal management structure was a sham. OSA was carefully micromanaged by David Miscavige. he exercised his control through me, Inspector General of RTC, and Mike Rinder, Commanding Officer of OSA International.

18. “Between 1982 and 2004, it was my job to act as a go-between for Miscavige and OSA. The manner in which we shielded Miscavige was elaborate. Much of Miscavige’s control of OSA was done “off the record.” Every evening I would receive an intelligence briefing in writing from OSA. The briefing was usually several pages summarizing reports from private investigators and Scientologists serving as undercover spies watching and interacting with Scientology critics. The written briefing, contrary to established corporate policy, had no routing information on it. That is, the daily briefing had no indication who wrote the report or who it was directed to. If a report ever got out of the Church, it could not, on its face, be used to incriminate any of its author or recipients.

19. “After I read the report each day, I was instructed by Miscavige to put it into a fresh envelope with no routing information on it. I then personally carried the envelope into Miscavige’s office and set it on his desk. I was the only person in Scientology, aside from his wife and secretary, ever authorized such access to his desk. When Mr. Miscavige read the reports, he would enter my office with the report in hand. He would say ‘beat it’ to my secretary or anyone else who happened to be in my office. Once any visitors had left, Mr. Miscavige would discuss the contents of the report. Often, he would instruct me to order OSA to direct an operative or private investigator to find out something to do concerning the target of infiltration or investigation. On other occasions, Mr. Miscavige would joke about what was reported about a particular target, or rant about the target’s activity. When Miscavige was done discussing the daily OSA briefing with me, he would throw the report on my desk. That was my cue to pick it up and shred it after he left the office and before anyone was permitted to return to my office.

20. “For 22 years, my schedule was to wake up at least an hour before David Miscavige’s scheduled wake up time so that I could collect all important information on any matter of concern to him being handled by the OSA network. Every morning, I was required to brief Miscavige verbally on any major developments on matters handled by the OSA network around the world or matters concerning security. My briefing to him would begin with major problems which he insisted he know about. My briefing included reports about handling the media stories, investigations, legal cases, security breaches, and potential security situations. That briefing would last anywhere from a few minutes on a quiet day with no major developments, to all day when something was afoot that riveted Miscavige’s attention. Miscavige would issue orders to OSA that I had to accurately note on paper.

21. “After the conference with Miscavige, there were a number of options available for issuing his orders, depending on their scope and the level of security required. Most often, I would call Mike Rinder, into my office and I would brief him verbally on Miscavige’s directives. Mr. Rinder would then return to his own office and type up the orders as written directives to OSA. Those directives would be worded as if the orders were originated by him, with no reference to me or RTC, and especially not to Mr. Miscavige. On many occasions, Mr. Miscavige would require Mr. Rinder’s presence during briefings in which he wanted more detail than usual, or wanted to issue more detailed orders than usual. In such cases, it would be my responsibility to follow up to verify that Mr. Rinder relayed Mr. Miscavige’s orders to OSA as Rinder’s own orders.

22. “Mr. Rinder and I were ordered by Mr. Miscavige to keep secret virtually all of our communications, and to specifically keep them secret from any other managers or staff with CSI and RTC. All other CSI managers had little to no knowledge of any matters affecting Scientology from the world outside of the Church. Except for OSA staff, Sea Org members have little contact with the media or the world outside of their corporate duties.

https://tonyortega.org/2013/09/05/m...y-leader-david-miscavige-lied-to-texas-court/
Marty Rathbun gave some important information here, although, if Rinder's time on the RPF is subtracted from his time in OSA, it's not 22 years. Others had pointed that out.

This same - and similar - material has been presented by others who don't have, as their primary purpose, nullifying those people who are most annoying to David Miscavige at this time.

Your enemy list is Miscavige's enemy list. Do you think people haven't noticed?

You'll present information that already is on the record that puts Miscavige in a bad light, if you can also put one or more of those on Miscavige's enemies list in a bad light.

It's an old template that you're copying. Others have done it before you.

But it must be confusing to some people looking in.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Your enemy list is Miscavige's enemy list. Do you think people haven't noticed?
I'm not following this person, Alanzo. In fact, I've had him on "ignore" since 2013,
when he had an apparent meltdown and was summarily banned for good.

But is the subtext here that he, like Marty Rathbun, has accepted a lump sum
payment or an ongoing small stipend to come here and covertly besmirch
a select list of David's enemies in his spare time? :whistling:

I'm sure some people could be bought pretty cheaply and David can certainly
afford it, just off of the interest he makes on COS billions.

Again, I'm not following this guy's posts or narratives. Just askin' those who
have been following him. (I don't have the stomach for it.) :coolwink:
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
"In a way people can understand."

Yes! People from many mindsets.

The draw (for me) after reading Troublemaker, was the abuse, particularly child sexual abuse. It's an extremely personal issue for me.

Being raised in a Protestant Christian culture, steeped in those lessons, it had been difficult for me to comprehend different viewpoints.
Following Aftermath has been a journey for me.

I never paid Leah much attention, until I read her book. I saw she is more than the hair, the fabulous nails, and her figure. That's superficial and transient.

Her spirit shines through in this endeavor.

I appreciate Mike Rinder's eloquence. He has the background from trenches to Corporate to trenches Co$ that enables him to convey Hubbard's doctrine and indoctrination so people like me can understand.

And those folks can educate their children, communities, school systems to spread cult awareness.
Hopefully children will be saved from the horrific abuses described in 3 seasons of Aftermath, and 10 (?) Years of reporting from the UB, OB. (If there are more.. I'm not aware of them)

Hopefully, those not spared will find the courage it takes to
*acknowledge to themselves it happened
*come forward and report it, in spite of the years of shadows and shame. And fear and self-loathing.

Aftermath touched a lot of people in many different ways. Its not just about McSavage.
Nice post!

Actually made me reflect on the goal reached with this Aftermath show. Reading your take on it ( you are among the targeted audience) made me realized what annoys me in the negative posts we are reading lately here, at this specific culminating point ..that IMO are not only questions but more in the dept of persistent attacks.

This show has never been intended for us exes to satisfy any demand for crime telling of Mike or either his apologies to any of us.

It has been intended the way Leah explained it and thus was not the right place for Mike to use it as a platform to make him even with people he may have hurt. ( but how do people know he never apologize privately ??)

Thus, IMO, they fulfilled their mission, and for some asking for Mike crimes, they will have to find another way..like a sec check, BofI, com ev, or message boards and blogs to make a nice dirty laundry with speculations and hypothesis, decent people refuse to participate in.
 
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Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I was there for the taping of the finale episode. Here's my review:
I remember you said you were a Class 8 auditor. Did I remember correctly?

Back when you were a Class 8, would you have described that this was what you were doing in session with a pc in this situation?

Besides, it’s considered part of your “case,” and discussing your “case” is strictly forbidden, except in session with your auditor. But when you do get into a Scientology session and bring up the “victim” part of your “case,” the auditor immediately guides you to examine what you must have done to “pull it in.” It’s victim-blaming at its finest.
How would you have described what you were doing back then, as a Class 8?

I ask because there's the tribal narrative about this part of the tech that is being pushed heavily by the Aftermath crew, and then there's the truth. The Aftermath's crew's narrative does have some truth to it - especially - sometimes - in its consequences for victims.

But I've found that the truth is never tribal.

Can you give a more nuanced explanation of this part of the tech - from your own experience as a Class 8?
 
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He-man

Hero extraordinary
Let's see if I understand this:
  • The local OSA agent reported to the local DSA "something". That's first-hand.
  • The DSA reports were collected by Marty. That's second-hand.
  • Marty reported to Miscavige and then relayed the subsequent orders to Mike. That's third-hand.
Did I get that right? So Mike's knowledge of these crimes was third-hand, condensed, summarized, sanitized, whatever?

Mike has said he has told the FBI what he knows.

And Marty, who had the raw data and has not disclosed that information, remains, in your universe, a good guy?

Just making sure I "have all the facts".
As long as no one or something exists that collaborates Marty's chain of events, the only people who could be convicted would be... the Reindeer and the Wraithbunny. Perhaps subordinates in OSA as well.

No I don't know enough of US federal processes but that is what is plain to me. Marty could possible have run a risk because of his own admittance of guilt of relaying said orders and Mike for executing those orders. I can see why that is not happening.

Has Martys secretary given evidence that these meetings took place?
Has anyone ever been invited to these meetings who supports Martys version of events?
Has Mike given a testimony that supports this?

I don't think so. Why would they? If they have left the church, the only people they can incriminate are themselves, what solicitor would advice them to do so?

Will David Miscarriage go down based on that?

I think not.

DM is well insulated, I have to give him that. That process they developed is well thought out.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
Marty Rathbun gave some important information here, although, if Rinder's time on the RPF is subtracted from his time in OSA, it's not 22 years. Others had pointed that out.

This same - and similar - material has been presented by others who don't have, as their primary purpose, nullifying those people who are most annoying to David Miscavige at this time.

Your enemy list is Miscavige's enemy list. Do you think people haven't noticed?

You'll present information that already is on the record that puts Miscavige in a bad light, if you can also put one or more of those on Miscavige's enemies list in a bad light.

It's an old template that you're copying. Others have done it before you.

But it must be confusing to some people looking in.
You calling out Alanzo to be running the church's errands is as tiring as Alanzo himself. Gods, give me strength to sustain this level of troll shaming. It's too damn high.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Has Martys secretary given evidence that these meetings took place?
Has anyone ever been invited to these meetings who supports Martys version of events?
Has Mike given a testimony that supports this?
There are people who were in the room when Mike Rinder reported "dones" to David Miscavige on some of the fair game operations that were extant at the time.

I've spoken to them.

And they're not talking.

Yet.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
There are people who were in the room when Mike Rinder reported "dones" to David Miscavige on some of the fair game operations that were extant at the time.

I've spoken to them.

And they're not talking.

Yet.
Well then advice them to go and make their statements to the FBI!
 

Tanchi

Patron with Honors
There are people who were in the room when Mike Rinder reported "dones" to David Miscavige on some of the fair game operations that were extant at the time.

I've spoken to them.

And they're not talking.

Yet.

Who are these people?
What are their names?
Why are they waiting? Why haven't they come forward?
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Whatever man. If you know of a murder, or someone withholding information of said murder, you could be named as an accessory of perjury, no?

Go to the federales and make a report of them and stop discussing it here. Jesus, are you that stupid?
"stop discussing it here"

That's a running theme here on the Ex-Scientologist Message Board these days.
 
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