The anti-Scientologist

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'd also add complicity as a factor that works in Scientology's favor. Eventually Scientologists become participants in the scam and it is cringe worthy to be associated with it. To speak out or go public with litigation means you become forever associated with it on the internet and people are googled by employers, landlords, dating, everything. Since there are a lot of mental types associated with Scientology it is impossible to know how that will play out. In order for people to know where you stand you need to get into the details of your experience and that could involve other people that you want to protect from that kind of exposure. It functions much like gang initiation to my thinking - to join a gang you need to do something that would make you equally culpable if you ever turn.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
here's something to consider.

Do other churches send you mail thru the USPS?

Only scientolgy does.

Has anybody here received mail from the mormons, from the Christians, etc?
You got me thinking - why don't Scientologists go door to door like JWs, Mormons, Baptists, etc? There is a lot of policy on mail but to my recollection nothing on door to door solicitation. Initially I thought maybe it was because it might expose Scientologists to too much hostility and critical thinking but they do engage the raw public with things like body routing and personality test booths.
 
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UTR

Patron
I've known people who got introduced to Dianetics decades ago by someone doing door-to-door book sales. It's not something that I've ever seen done recently though.
 

Veda

Sponsor
It isn't a matter of irony. 



It is an effective strategy.





Most people when thinking of membership in a religion do not associate it with the deliberate creation of a body of documentation that protects the religion from litigation. I think the first thing they have people do now is after watching an introductory video about Scientology they sign something saying they understand and agree Scientology is a religion. Scientologists proceed to sign similar and progressively stricter agreements and waivers when they start another service or start services at another org. Each org is set up as a separate corporation. Scientologists sign NDAs and bonds both as public and staff. With each service completion Scientologists write up "wins" saying how great it was which can be used to counter a later change of position. So being a Scientologist is literally a contractual relationship.
 



Scientology is a full immersion milieu environment where things like language, associates and time become dedicated to Scientology to the exclusion of other things.



Scientologists are indoctrinated into KSW which is by definition fundamentalism. They believe that it is their only path to spiritual freedom and if they cross Scientology they will be condemned to not remembering past lives or not being able to control reincarnation for eternity. 


It is difficult to find Scientology policy. KSW is their most senior (public) policy but if you run a Google image search for it it is extremely difficult to find in it's entirety. By all rights they should be handing it out like The Way To Happiness booklets but they seem to be embarrassed to reveal policies that every public Scientologists should have access to.


Scientologists lie (tell an acceptable truth) and obfuscate to protect the organization and other Scientologists. It is policy that Scientologists cannot sue or report other Scientologists to non-Scientology authorities. They must go through internal procedures. This makes it difficult to find reliable witnesses.



There are a lot of coercive and manipulative techniques embedded in Scientology. If you cross them they declare you a Suppressive Person and everyone must disconnect from you. The internal judicial procedures are harsh, arbitrary and based on a lot of woo. Their Fair Game policy is essentially gang stalking. Scientologists give them a lot of personal and embarrassing or even incriminating information in auditing and security check sessions and staff life history questionnaires. This can be used against them.



There is a lot of internal compartmentalization of information, censorship, misinformation, redirection and shifting of blame. They use confidential special projects to conduct operations outside of normal organizational lines. Different strata and experience levels don’t know what the other is doing and don’t see or know about actionable crimes.



Scientology is an asset stripping operation which depletes resources needed to conduct a protracted lawsuit. People leaving staff may have neglected medical needs and their priority is to simply survive and get reestablished in the outside world.

Scientology cuts short or completely replaces outside education. Education is a factor in deciding to take action or upon a legal strategy.


Scientology has developed legal strategies to weaponize the legal system and operate without good faith.



Scientology safe points or co-opts local law enforcement and agencies by giving them donations, having them participate in events, placing their people on committees and other PR efforts.



Public awareness of Scientology as a cult and it’s abuses has increased significantly in the last 10 - 15 years. Hubbard said that the complexity of Scientology served as a kind of defense and he was right. For anyone who has tried to explain it to a non-Scientologist it is extremely difficult and gets into the weeds quickly and public awareness and support for issues is a factor in litigation.



Scientology uses religious cloaking. The IRS has given them tax exempt status and they can claim First Amendment protection. They form alliances with religious groups and co-opt other group’s agendas to lobby in support of legislation that protects them or opposes national and international restrictions.



In other words it is more like a mafia than a church except as far as government agencies are concerned it is a piker compared to other mafias and government agencies have a very poor track record of dealing with larger more violent mafias as it is. The thing that sets Scientology apart from other mafias is it developed an effective program to operate in the open regardless of the "rules and processes which govern how a democratic society deals with this type of activity."
Brilliant!
 

Gib

Crusader
Okay, this is getting silly.

So, CoS should not be allowed to exist because they use a government service, a service that is available to all?

Listen, I will agree with you that the church should not be allowed to lie, deceive or defraud the public. But, there are rules and processes which govern how a democratic society deals with this type of activity.

With every Clear they make (whether real or imagined), is them demonstrating they are "clearing the planet", albeit slowly. But, all of this is protected religious activity.

What is not protected activity is financial and credit card fraud. Just in the past year, Tony Ortega reported several instances of overt financial fraud orchestrated by church staff members. These were recent events, months old, and well within the statue of limitations. There were witnesses, real victims (a couple of them elderly), plus a complete paper trail including submitting a financial application with intent to defraud. Effectively, they were caught "red-handed". Mind you, this is not new behaviour for the church. From past experience I believe the church has engaged in this type of activity for decades.

So why no criminal charges? Why was there no call for criminal charges?

It is ironic that people have been accusing CoS of being an criminal organisation, but have been unable to bring actual charges. And here's present day, well documented criminal activity that goes unprosecuted.

What is the deal with that?
You said:

"With every Clear they make (whether real or imagined), is them demonstrating they are "clearing the planet", albeit slowly. But, all of this is protected religious activity."

Bullshit, there are no clears.

It should not be protected religious activity.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
You got me thinking - why don't Scientologists go door to door like JWs, Mormons, Baptists, etc? There is a lot of policy on mail but to my recollection nothing on door to door solicitation. Initially I thought maybe it was because it might expose Scientologists to too much hostility and critical thinking but they do engage the raw public with things like body routing and personality test booths.
Back in the early 80's I somehow got briefly involved with selling Dianetics books. Five people (including myself) from Boston Org drove up to Toronto and spent some days there working with the Toronto booksellers who were going door-to-door. Their book sales were apparently best in the East U.S. at that time so we went up to get trained by them.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Back in the early 80's I somehow got briefly involved with selling Dianetics books. Five people (including myself) from Boston Org drove up to Toronto and spent some days there working with the Toronto booksellers who were going door-to-door. Their book sales were apparently best in the East U.S. at that time so we went up to get trained by them.
Were they operating from a policy or something like a program with targets or just innovating?

It's curious because they generally try to identify successful actions and incorporate these into programs moving forward but I think door to door solicitations by Scientologists is unusual so maybe not successful or even backfires. I've had them come to my house but that is because they wanted to get me back on lines. Surely I'm not the one person in the world that the book sellers missed.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Were they operating from a policy or something like a program with targets or just innovating?

It's curious because they generally try to identify successful actions and incorporate these into programs moving forward but I think door to door solicitations by Scientologists is unusual so maybe not successful or even backfires. I've had them come to my house but that is because they wanted to get me back on lines. Surely I'm not the one person in the world that the book sellers missed.
I don't recall being shown any policy references concerning selling door-to-door. Just the policy references to sell books! And books make booms!

I imagine that the Toronto booksellers were initially innovating. And when they began doing well the word got out at the FOLO (or CLO, whatever it was called at that time). But I don't know if any other east U.S. orgs also tried the door-to-door or not. And of the five of us who went to Toronto, when we returned, only two of us kept selling books, and they sold on the street, not door-2-door.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I don't recall being shown any policy references concerning selling door-to-door. Just the policy references to sell books! And books make booms!

I imagine that the Toronto booksellers were initially innovating. And when they began doing well the word got out at the FOLO (or CLO, whatever it was called at that time). But I don't know if any other east U.S. orgs also tried the door-to-door or not. And of the five of us who went to Toronto, when we returned, only two of us kept selling books, and they sold on the street, not door-2-door.
Scientology is so conflicted over innovation. If it goes well you get a commendation but if it goes badly then you were off policy and know besty or outright suppressive. There are so many ways Scientology going door to door could go badly I could see where it might be banned.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
Scientology is so conflicted over innovation. If it goes well you get a commendation but if it goes badly then you were off policy and know besty or outright suppressive. There are so many ways Scientology going door to door could go badly I could see where it might be banned.
I remember being told it was inneficient, my words not theirs, that the best way to get raw bodies in the shop was to disseminate on the streets.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Scientology is so conflicted over innovation. If it goes well you get a commendation but if it goes badly then you were off policy and know besty or outright suppressive. There are so many ways Scientology going door to door could go badly I could see where it might be banned.
Very true!

When we went out with the Toronto book-selling team we did these apartment buildings where you couldn't get in to knock on the doors. You had to ring a doorbell for each individual resident living within. So they would ring a doorbell of someone living on the top floor, and pretend they were doing some type of delivery, saying it was the UPS guy or something, can you please let me in. It was dishonest. But we were saving the planet, so of course it was the greatest good.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I remember being told it was inneficient, my words not theirs, that the best way to get raw bodies in the shop was to disseminate on the streets.
Yes, having to run ARC Break sessions on all those Scientologists getting doors slammed on them would be inefficient.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Very true!

When we went out with the Toronto book-selling team we did these apartment buildings where you couldn't get in to knock on the doors. You had to ring a doorbell for each individual resident living within. So they would ring a doorbell of someone living on the top floor, and pretend they were doing some type of delivery, saying it was the UPS guy or something, can you please let me in. It was dishonest. But we were saving the planet, so of course it was the greatest good.
So I have to know - what was the spiel?

We are a "scientific version of Buddhism." "All other religions are a big fail and we aren't."

What a great idea for a candid camera episode.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
So I have to know - what was the spiel?

We are a "scientific version of Buddhism." "All other religions are a big fail and we aren't."

What a great idea for a candid camera episode.
It's been over 35 years and I forgot the spiel. But nothing was mentioned about Scientology. It was all about Dianetics.

I do recall that the two booksellers from Boston who kept doing it would frequently use the Dissem Drill to get the "ruin".
I heard one of them, even before pitching the DMSMH book to quickly go into that drill, asking the person "What's ruining your life?"
And they would sell the Dianetics book as the solution to whatever came up.
 

Out Effix

Out Ethics Ex Ethics Officer
It's been over 35 years and I forgot the spiel. But nothing was mentioned about Scientology. It was all about Dianetics.

I do recall that the two booksellers from Boston who kept doing it would frequently use the Dissem Drill to get the "ruin".
I heard one of them, even before pitching the DMSMH book to quickly go into that drill, asking the person "What's ruining your life?"
And they would sell the Dianetics book as the solution to whatever came up.
We drilled on finding their ruin.

Step one - pick open scab and get it to bleed.
Step Two - Sell them a Dianetics book or some Scientology book and look them in the eye with insouciant certainty stating "Scientology / Dianetics can help that" - promise to get the bleeding to stop. Use hypnotic commands like "just buy the book, buy the book, just get the book and read it"

Step three - Get their money, get their name and address, phone number.

Step Four - harass them for eternity.
At some point a person will have a problem and if you reach them on the phone or mail - you will get them to come it to see if Scientology will help them.

Scientology mind control tactics work when standardly applied.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
It's been over 35 years and I forgot the spiel. But nothing was mentioned about Scientology. It was all about Dianetics.

I do recall that the two booksellers from Boston who kept doing it would frequently use the Dissem Drill to get the "ruin".
I heard one of them, even before pitching the DMSMH book to quickly go into that drill, asking the person "What's ruining your life?"
And they would sell the Dianetics book as the solution to whatever came up.
That is also a bait and switch from the start. Dianetics is based on the concept of mental therapy very much like Freudian psychology. There is not spirit or thetan involved. So they are trying to rope people in by avoiding the complications of spiritual concepts and conflicts with people's religious beliefs but Dianetics is practically an obsolete afterthought to Scientology corporate. It is just a hook to get people into Scientology which is entirely based on the concept of spirit aka thetan. And of course we now know that even Scientology is a bait and switch for disembodied alien body thetans as the fundamental concept for fixing what is wrong with you on the OT Levels.

Dianetics isn't advertised very much anymore and the Superbowl ads mainly promote Scientology but Scientology books are pretty wacky for raw public so I can see how trying to sell Dianetics door to door now would be a problem because of poor name recognition. Most people probably associate Scientology name recognition with Tom Cruise and South Park. When the stabbing happened in Australia I spent some time searching Asian news sights to see if they were picking up the story. There wasn't much but what there was always mentioned Tom Cruise. When Tom is gone that will pretty much just leave South Park.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
We drilled on finding their ruin.

Step one - pick open scab and get it to bleed.
Step Two - Sell them a Dianetics book or some Scientology book and look them in the eye with insouciant certainty stating "Scientology / Dianetics can help that" - promise to get the bleeding to stop. Use hypnotic commands like "just buy the book, buy the book, just get the book and read it"

Step three - Get their money, get their name and address, phone number.

Step Four - harass them for eternity.
At some point a person will have a problem and if you reach them on the phone or mail - you will get them to come it to see if Scientology will help them.

Scientology mind control tactics work when standardly applied.
Sounds about right. Ever sell History of Man door to door?
 

Gib

Crusader
I didn't see statpush doing that. AFAIK he is an ex too.


Then you better tell the Catholics that baptism isn't protected either.
I don't know anything about religious organizations known as Catholics or baptism, so I don't make the comparison.

I only know the rhetoric of Hubbard which I fell for.
 
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