The ANZO exodus & OSA's response

Carmel

Crusader
As most of you know, in the last two months many Scn'ists from ANZO (especially the Sydney region), have left the ranks of the CofS. Some have just left, many are now members on this board, many more are 'lurking' on it and some still 'in' are still deciding - previously dedicated scn'ists are now being 'defiant' and are now looking instead of just listening to the PR lines from the CofS.

OSA has tried to deal with this situation, but to little or no avail until now;
- they have done their usual on the likes of Feral and I, in an effort to 'shut us down' or put us into hiding mode.....but it hasn't worked.
- they have been interviewing individuals in the field and spreading false data about us, in an effort to destroy our influence....but it hasn't worked to the degree that they would like it to.
- old friends, workmates, and past selectees of ours have been called in by the Flag mission (recently arrived in ANZO) and are being told outright lies about us.... but this hasn't worked or is not working to the degree that they want it to either.

So what does OSA do? They get smart and they employ the tactics that Panda describes in posts #'s 1 and 24 of this thread - http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=8249

OSA knows that many of it's field in ANZO who are curently sitting on the fence, are looking at this board. Why would they they not infiltrate it big time (on a scale they haven't done before), in order to put people off it? Well, of course they would - and in recent times, they have!

Yes, there will always be trolls, and eccentrics, and rabid antagonists. Why would OSA not increase the volume or degree of such - in an effort to make the once dedicated scientologist think that the board is just a bunch of scathing loonies, and then walk away or write it off?

Those who read all threads and all posts in the scn categories, would have noticed an increase in the amount of antagonism, disharmony, and rabid critics, etc, on the board of late. This recent increase does not fall into the category of the usual 'ebb and flow'.

We who are in contact with the scn'ists looking at the board, can attest that recently we have had negative feedback about the board that we didn't have before! OSA knows how to push the scientologist's buttons and knows what they will reject - they've put trolls on this board to push those buttons hard and they've been getting away with doing a good job!

Members falling prey to these OSA tactics - play right into OSA's hands. Hence this post! You may not care two hoots about what OSA may do to you personally, but do you care that possibly you are forwarding their purpose? By reacting to and feeding their trolls, you could well be not only putting off another scn'ist who (while still in doubt) is looking for the valuable truths that this board has to offer, but also doing yourself a disservice.

Please look at this, be aware of it and don't fall prey to it - or you are helping OSA and the CofS win.
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
Good Thread Ceedia.

Since Pitbull was allowed to roam this board and be such a raging Ass*hole for so long... it somewhat 'desensitized' me to this type of antago/disrupt postings. I had learned to 'ignore' it/him cause quite frankly I considered leaving several times after seeing the resulting upset over his posts.

Thus I have not paid much attention to the others who do similar type postings.

What is being posted here now as well as on Pandas OSA thread is more clear and pointed as to what is likely behind the increase of these incidents.

Well then we can learn to spot them, then what? I believe that 'they' are sometimes operating in pairs, quite capable of creating a fair degree of drama on various threads without any major participation from 'regular' members. So what to do??

I have no problem myself of dropping in and posting the definition of "Trolls" whenever I detect this type of thing. I already did so this morning and the 'attempt' of the thread died.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

Any other thoughts regarding this??
 

asagai

Patron Meritorious
Any doubting Scientologist can visit www.leavingscn.com/forums where the subject is being discussed without distractions or unseemly squabbles. Where an attempt is being made to discuss the subject rationally.

It is fully moderated and therefore the flow is not as lively as ESMB and there is not the personal interraction that ESMB has. But for those Scientologists in doubt, it tries to be a place where they can look at the facts calmly and safely.
 

well_that_sucked

Patron with Honors
rabid critic

I'm new and I fall into the category of rabid critic, no question.

For all i know you are osa, but I understand what you are saying and what you are up against.

My tactic is brutal honesty, at least as I see it. It's hard to trust when it comes to scientology, and I'd rather not, but I wouldn't want to be the cause for someone leaving this site without getting the truth in a way they can have.

If your goal is to enlighten people about the truths of scientology and my methods are counter productive to that goal I'd like to hear it, and for the sake of those still in I will either tone it down or leave it to others.
 

Carmel

Crusader
I'm new and I fall into the category of rabid critic, no question.

For all i know you are osa, but I understand what you are saying and what you are up against.

My tactic is brutal honesty, at least as I see it. It's hard to trust when it comes to scientology, and I'd rather not, but I wouldn't want to be the cause for someone leaving this site without getting the truth in a way they can have.

If your goal is to enlighten people about the truths of scientology and my methods are counter productive to that goal I'd like to hear it, and for the sake of those still in I will either tone it down or leave it to others.
Arnie Lerma could be called a 'rabid critic', but his posts aren't personally insulting or offensive. While some may take offence at his stance, he expresses his views with intent for understanding - maybe more should take a leaf out of his book.

Being a 'rabid critic' is not the problem, but personal affronts on those who aren't for instance, are!
 

Carmel

Crusader
....snip......

Well then we can learn to spot them, then what? I believe that 'they' are sometimes operating in pairs, quite capable of creating a fair degree of drama on various threads without any major participation from 'regular' members. So what to do??

.....snip......
Any other thoughts regarding this??
Currently I'd suggest the following:
- If they barge in on chat, and try to de-rail, then put them in their place and/or ignore.
- Don't partake in a flame war with them (that's what they want).
- Don't get sucked into responding to their insults...just ignore or call it how it is.
- Don't be sucked into any contributing to any de-railment that they may be causing or attempting to cause on a thread - just ignore, despite temptation to do otherwise.
- Report unacceptable posts to the administrator by using the report button which is at the top right hand corner of every post.

In suggesting the above though, I acknowledge that I'm still learning too, and stand to be corrected on the above.
 

Human Again

Silver Meritorious Patron
I wondered if you were an OSA plant who had come in to cause upset.


I'm new and I fall into the category of rabid critic, no question.

For all i know you are osa, but I understand what you are saying and what you are up against.

My tactic is brutal honesty, at least as I see it. It's hard to trust when it comes to scientology, and I'd rather not, but I wouldn't want to be the cause for someone leaving this site without getting the truth in a way they can have.

If your goal is to enlighten people about the truths of scientology and my methods are counter productive to that goal I'd like to hear it, and for the sake of those still in I will either tone it down or leave it to others.

Sounds good, well_that_sucked,

You said your tactic was Brutal Honesty.

Honesty is great; In Scientology we could have done with a hell of a lot more of it.

Brutality? It doesn't further honest discussion as people get hurt and sidetracked and it taints the rest of us who would prefer to show compassion and care and an unreasonable attitude toward bullying. It comes a bit close to SRA's for my comfort. I think we all had enough of that in the Church.
 
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I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
As most of you know, in the last two months many Scn'ists from ANZO (especially the Sydney region), have left the ranks of the CofS. Some have just left, many are now members on this board, many more are 'lurking' on it and some still 'in' are still deciding - previously dedicated scn'ists are now being 'defiant' and are now looking instead of just listening to the PR lines from the CofS.

OSA has tried to deal with this situation, but to little or no avail until now;
- they have done their usual on the likes of Feral and I, in an effort to 'shut us down' or put us into hiding mode.....but it hasn't worked.
- they have been interviewing individuals in the field and spreading false data about us, in an effort to destroy our influence....but it hasn't worked to the degree that they would like it to.
- old friends, workmates, and past selectees of ours have been called in by the Flag mission (recently arrived in ANZO) and are being told outright lies about us.... but this hasn't worked or is not working to the degree that they want it to either.

So what does OSA do? They get smart and they employ the tactics that Panda describes in posts #'s 1 and 24 of this thread - http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=8249

OSA knows that many of it's field in ANZO who are curently sitting on the fence, are looking at this board. Why would they they not infiltrate it big time (on a scale they haven't done before), in order to put people off it? Well, of course they would - and in recent times, they have!

Yes, there will always be trolls, and eccentrics, and rabid antagonists. Why would OSA not increase the volume or degree of such - in an effort to make the once dedicated scientologist think that the board is just a bunch of scathing loonies, and then walk away or write it off?

Those who read all threads and all posts in the scn categories, would have noticed an increase in the amount of antagonism, disharmony, and rabid critics, etc, on the board of late. This recent increase does not fall into the category of the usual 'ebb and flow'.

We who are in contact with the scn'ists looking at the board, can attest that recently we have had negative feedback about the board that we didn't have before! OSA knows how to push the scientologist's buttons and knows what they will reject - they've put trolls on this board to push those buttons hard and they've been getting away with doing a good job!

Members falling prey to these OSA tactics - play right into OSA's hands. Hence this post! You may not care two hoots about what OSA may do to you personally, but do you care that possibly you are forwarding their purpose? By reacting to and feeding their trolls, you could well be not only putting off another scn'ist who (while still in doubt) is looking for the valuable truths that this board has to offer, but also doing yourself a disservice.

Please look at this, be aware of it and don't fall prey to it - or you are helping OSA and the CofS win.


Great post Ceedia ... you do get a 'feeling' when reading a trolls offerings ... let them feed themselves.

:p
 

Feral

Rogue male
Ceedia raises some good points at an interesting time.

OSA clearly have a mission to stop the hemorrhaging going on in Sydney and now elsewhere before it spreads to yet other areas.....:whistling:

They have clearly stepped up efforts to interupt and discredit ESMB in the last few days.

The October 18 protests have been very successful by Anons. The cofs is having more trouble than ever controlling the group, it may have pushed them too far this time and of course blames vehicles like ESMB, thus it is inevitable that this board will get some special attention.

One thing to remember is not all trolls are OSA and not all OSA on the board will obviously troll. I got outed by OSA on this board, I got lulled into sending an e-mail to a guy, I read some of his posts first and decided to trust him as he had never trolled. Within a day OSA knew the identity of Feral.
 

Feral

Rogue male
A recent occurence

There was a newbie on the board a week or so ago asking advice about which course to take in the org. WTF? I pointed out that he was a PR from the church trying to get his stats up. "Profitable images" is an OSA stat.

Two members told me I had the wrong view as long as it sparks healthy debate 'who cares'?. I dropped it. Within a few days one of those two guys got flamed so bad in the chat room by an (OSA) troll (now banned) that he has left the board since.

That is exactly the product the (OSA?) troll was after.

Live and learn.
 

Carmel

Crusader
I'm new and I fall into the category of rabid critic, no question.

For all i know you are osa, but I understand what you are saying and what you are up against.

My tactic is brutal honesty, at least as I see it. It's hard to trust when it comes to scientology, and I'd rather not, but I wouldn't want to be the cause for someone leaving this site without getting the truth in a way they can have.

If your goal is to enlighten people about the truths of scientology and my methods are counter productive to that goal I'd like to hear it, and for the sake of those still in I will either tone it down or leave it to others.

Sometimes I can be a bit gutless in regard to saying what should be said. I was so, when I first responded to your post above. The following is something that I should have pointed out on my first response to you:

In reference to the first post of your thread - "Scientolo-crazy: Chicken or the egg"
"I've been debating with someone on the origins of scientolo-crazy.

After hauling ass as fast as I could from the cult a few years ago, one of the first places I went looking for information was the web. Not only did I read horror stories that made my experience seem like a cake walk, I also found the ot levels, and of course everyone's homeboy; xenu.

It was an odd moment when I realized many of the people I was very closely associated with believe this shit. I couldn't get past the reality that these "ots" were bonafide nut jobs. Even now when I chance upon an old friend pity is all that holds back the laughter.

So how does one swallow the xenu story? How does a person hand over that kinda money, years of their life and read the crazy without flipping the hell out? I mean for a buck they could get a used comic with a better and more believable story line.

So, the question is; were these true believers crazy before they drank the xenu or did the cult make them crazy?

WTS"
When I read this original post, I thought that the person who wrote it was either selfish, ignorant, disrespectful, and immature OR an OSA troll doing a good job.

In future I would ignore such a thread altogether, and I hope that other members will do the same.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Ceedia raises some good points at an interesting time.

OSA clearly have a mission to stop the hemorrhaging going on in Sydney and now elsewhere before it spreads to yet other areas.....:whistling:

They have clearly stepped up efforts to interupt and discredit ESMB in the last few days.

The October 18 protests have been very successful by Anons. The cofs is having more trouble than ever controlling the group, it may have pushed them too far this time and of course blames vehicles like ESMB, thus it is inevitable that this board will get some special attention.

One thing to remember is not all trolls are OSA and not all OSA on the board will obviously troll. I got outed by OSA on this board, I got lulled into sending an e-mail to a guy, I read some of his posts first and decided to trust him as he had never trolled. Within a day OSA knew the identity of Feral.

Thanks, it's good to have examples Feral. :)
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
(...snip)
I believe that 'they' are sometimes operating in pairs, quite capable of creating a fair degree of drama on various threads without any major participation from 'regular' members. So what to do?? (....snip)

Well spotted, KV, they do in fact have a "pairs" caper where they send two or more people into the same group with apparently opposing views. They engage each other vigorously and pull the bona-fide group members into the fight, thereby creating opposing factions within the group. It's the old "divide and conquer" routine.

What can you do about it? Well, first off just recognising the attempt at manipulation nullifies it's effectiveness.
Don't engage, don't argue, don't answer questions, particularly ones that require you to give information about yourself or your attitudes. Above all, stay on topic, don't get distracted from the actual topic being discussed, if OSA trolls it then it's considered dangerous by them. One of their big worries is not what's actually being said but what might come out if people keep looking at the area and so they steer away from it, it's very much what we used to call Missed Withhold Phenomena.

Hope this helps, Panda.
 

Sir Facer

Patron with Honors
WOW CEEDIA

As most of you know, in the last two months many Scn'ists from ANZO (especially the Sydney region), have left the ranks of the CofS. Some have just left, many are now members on this board, many more are 'lurking' on it and some still 'in' are still deciding - previously dedicated scn'ists are now being 'defiant' and are now looking instead of just listening to the PR lines from the CofS.

OSA has tried to deal with this situation, but to little or no avail until now;
- they have done their usual on the likes of Feral and I, in an effort to 'shut us down' or put us into hiding mode.....but it hasn't worked.
- they have been interviewing individuals in the field and spreading false data about us, in an effort to destroy our influence....but it hasn't worked to the degree that they would like it to.
- old friends, workmates, and past selectees of ours have been called in by the Flag mission (recently arrived in ANZO) and are being told outright lies about us.... but this hasn't worked or is not working to the degree that they want it to either.

So what does OSA do? They get smart and they employ the tactics that Panda describes in posts #'s 1 and 24 of this thread - http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=8249

Members falling prey to these OSA tactics - play right into OSA's hands. Hence this post! You may not care two hoots about what OSA may do to you personally, but do you care that possibly you are forwarding their purpose? By reacting to and feeding their trolls, you could well be not only putting off another scn'ist who (while still in doubt) is looking for the valuable truths that this board has to offer, but also doing yourself a disservice.

Please look at this, be aware of it and don't fall prey to it - or you are helping OSA and the CofS win.

WOW Ceedia!! Good point, I'm at a loss at why those tactics are still being used???? as they are being exploited on this board for all to find out about on a daily basis:omg: And They keep getting caught out, will they ever realise that they create 98% of the shit that gets stired up.....................

GREAT POSTING CEEDIA
 

well_that_sucked

Patron with Honors
Sometimes I can be a bit gutless in regard to saying what should be said. I was so, when I first responded to your post above. The following is something that I should have pointed out on my first response to you:

In reference to the first post of your thread - "Scientolo-crazy: Chicken or the egg"
When I read this original post, I thought that the person who wrote it was either selfish, ignorant, disrespectful, and immature OR an OSA troll doing a good job.

In future I would ignore such a thread altogether, and I hope that other members will do the same.

Mostly that post was making fun, and large doses of anger. However, when I look at it again, there is nothing funny about having reality replaced by something sinister. While I don't thinks its possible for me to be sweet and nice, out of respect and concern for those still in looking for answers, I'll refrain from being a complete asshole.
 
Good on you!

Mostly that post was making fun, and large doses of anger. However, when I look at it again, there is nothing funny about having reality replaced by something sinister. While I don't thinks its possible for me to be sweet and nice, out of respect and concern for those still in looking for answers, I'll refrain from being a complete asshole.

"I'll refrain from being a complete asshole!" - now that's my kind of "sweet and nice." :coolwink:

Good on ya, WTS!
 

Smitty

Silver Meritorious Patron
comment to Ceedia

OSA has tried to deal with this situation, but to little or no avail until now;
- they have done their usual on the likes of Feral and I, in an effort to 'shut us down' or put us into hiding mode.....but it hasn't worked.
- they have been interviewing individuals in the field and spreading false data about us, in an effort to destroy our influence....but it hasn't worked to the degree that they would like it to.
- old friends, workmates, and past selectees of ours have been called in by the Flag mission (recently arrived in ANZO) and are being told outright lies about us.... but this hasn't worked or is not working to the degree that they want it to either.

Contact a solicitor. Australia has the toughest libel and slander laws in the British Commonwealth. You may also look at stalking, criminal harassment and data privacy statute violations.
So what does OSA do? They get smart and they employ the tactics that Panda describes in posts #'s 1 and 24 of this thread - http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=8249
OSA knows that many of it's field in ANZO who are curently sitting on the fence, are looking at this board. Why would they they not infiltrate it big time (on a scale they haven't done before), in order to put people off it? Well, of course they would - and in recent times, they have!
They are following "Never fear to hurt another in a just cause."
Yes, there will always be trolls, and eccentrics, and rabid antagonists. Why would OSA not increase the volume or degree of such - in an effort to make the once dedicated scientologist think that the board is just a bunch of scathing loonies, and then walk away or write it off?
Ya, but there are so many folks here who are not and cofs no longer has the resources to flood the forum. Why? Most of their resources have left or been declared SPs.
Those who read all threads and all posts in the scn categories, would have noticed an increase in the amount of antagonism, disharmony, and rabid critics, etc, on the board of late. This recent increase does not fall into the category of the usual 'ebb and flow'.
I don't know about that. Scientology is a controversial subject and that has manifested itself here on and off since I have been posting.
We who are in contact with the scn'ists looking at the board, can attest that recently we have had negative feedback about the board that we didn't have before! OSA knows how to push the scientologist's buttons and knows what they will reject - they've put trolls on this board to push those buttons hard and they've been getting away with doing a good job!
They think they know, but in fact, everybody responds differently, or not at all. The only thing they do a good job at is create enemies.
Members falling prey to these OSA tactics - play right into OSA's hands. Hence this post! You may not care two hoots about what OSA may do to you personally, but do you care that possibly you are forwarding their purpose? By reacting to and feeding their trolls, you could well be not only putting off another scn'ist who (while still in doubt) is looking for the valuable truths that this board has to offer, but also doing yourself a disservice.
Please look at this, be aware of it and don't fall prey to it - or you are helping OSA and the CofS win.
Some are clearly trolls, others just lack social intelligence.
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well said Ceedia!

And thanks for reminding us about the tactics employed by OSA. They must be getting rather desperate by now.

My personal stance is that I am prepared to talk to anyone, but if others are not prepared to communicate in a rational and courteous manner, then I just ignore them. I'm not bothered if anyone disagrees with what I say, it is the manner in which they do it that is important. There are plenty of other interesting people to talk to here.

Axiom142
 

MarkWI

Patron Meritorious
[...] I got outed by OSA on this board, I got lulled into sending an e-mail to a guy, I read some of his posts first and decided to trust him as he had never trolled. Within a day OSA knew the identity of Feral.

Who was he? It may be interesting to read his posts.
 
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