The Art of Deception: How Scientology Enslaves Your Mind

[Lermanet_com]

And, no, hypnosis does not get the same results, exactly in every case.

Is this sentence is based upon something you read? Got a citation or source I can look up to add to this index of hypnosis materials related to scientology?

 

[MarkWI]

[...]
Hubbard sold us what we already had!

All good things that happen were because we 'duplicated source'.

All bad things are because we fail to do this.

What RUBBISH.

[...]

What in the cult is called "OT phenomena" do happens in the wog world too, no less often. Yet general people don't have the false pretense to know all about it, like scientologists do. The fact that despite "knowing" all about it scientologists are unable to causatively reproduce the phenomena, adds to the opinion that it is a pretended knowledge.

I started doubting my own certainty in scientology by talking to mormons. They were so certain about things that I wouldn't believe for a moment, that I saw myself in the mirrow, and started doubting my own certainty. No results, lies and greed eventually overcome my blind hope that scientology had the correct answers.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Is this sentence is based upon something you read? Got a citation or source I can look up to add to this index of hypnosis materials related to scientology?

All I said was that hypnosis doesn't get the exact same results as Dn and/or Scn auditing in every single instance.

I also said I wasn't against hypnosis.

 

[Carnaubawax]

What in the cult is called "OT phenomena" do happens in the wog world too, no less often. Yet general people don't have the false pretense to know all about it, like scientologists do. The fact that despite "knowing" all about it scientologists are unable to causatively reproduce the phenomena, adds to the opinion that it is a pretended knowledge.

I started doubting my own certainty in scientology by talking to mormons. They were so certain about things that I wouldn't believe for a moment, that I saw myself in the mirrow, and started doubting my own certainty. No results, lies and greed eventually overcome my blind hope that scientology had the correct answers.

True.

 

[Lermanet_com]

All I said was that hypnosis doesn't get the exact same results as Dn and/or Scn auditing in every single instance.

I know what you said, and asked for what you base it on, based upon your nonanswer reply, evidently you have no basis for it.

In scientology they "dont get the exact same results in every instance" either..

Though you have strung some words together, you did not say anything.

This is the confusion technique described by Milton Erikson, whom Smitty said was recommended reading when he worked in scientology osa. This is how its done folks. LINK

it induces a trance state through the confusion allowing what is IMPLIED to enter your subconcious without your consent or awareness.. to be then acted upon as data, to some degree, and without your knowledge. This is one of the secrets of effective, covert, psychopolitical warfare.

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Merging thoughts...

I know what you said, and asked for what you base it on, based upon your nonanswer reply, evidently you have no basis for it.

In scientology they "dont get the exact same results in every instance" either..

Though you have strung some words together, you did not say anything.

This is the confusion technique described by Milton Erikson, whom Smitty said was recommended reading when he worked in scientology osa. This is how its done folks. LINK

it induces a trance state through the confusion allowing what is IMPLIED to enter your subconcious without your consent or awareness.. to be then acted upon as data, to some degree, and without your knowledge. This is one of the secrets of effective, covert, psychopolitical warfare.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Below is a quote from Zinj (another thread):

"It's my impression that the 'live virus' of Scientology's Mind Fuck depends on the totalitarian enforcement available *only* within the 'Church' itself. Once indoctrinated by the 'Church' a 'Scientologist' may well move on to a group that does *not* have the ability to enforce the kind of 'Ethics' necessary to create the indoctrination in the first place."

...snip...

Zinj

The quote from Zinj, which was on another thread seemed to tie together with Arnie's post - at least in my universe. I bolded some parts for emphasis and would like to know if others can see how the "strings of words" which comprise much of Scientology, coupled with "heavy ethics" and "totalitarian enforcement", served to make persons, such as I, do and believe some really "off the wall" shit? :confused2:

Roy/EP

 

[Lermanet_com]

Thank you EP for connecting these two posts.. and thank you Zinjifar.

The incredible effect of "totalitarian" thinking, is described by Dr Joost Meerloo, in his books "Rape of the Mind" and "Delusion, and Mass Delusion", which were so helpful to this writer that I took my time to scan them and web them in their entirety, so that my brothers in arms might reap the same rewards as I.

Joost describes a country called "Totalia" - he IS talking about Scientology and a possible future for mankind, if not enough folks grasp this material.

Joost Meerloo was ridiculed by his peers, because he wrote his books about the psychology of totalitarian regimes and delusion and mass delusion in relatively plain english, so that mere mortals such as I could grasp the severe implications.

I felt these two books were so important, I placed them in a directory named scientology.

http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/

 

[Tim Skog]

Thank you EP for connecting these two posts.. and thank you Zinjifar.

The incredible effect of "totalitarian" thinking, is described by Dr Joost Meerloo, in his books "Rape of the Mind" and "Delusion, and Mass Delusion", which were so helpful to this writer that I took my time to scan them and web them in their entirety, so that my brothers in arms might reap the same rewards as I.

Joost describes a country called "Totalia" - he IS talking about Scientology and a possible future for mankind, if not enough folks grasp this material.

Joost Meerloo was ridiculed by his peers, because he wrote his books about the psychology of totalitarian regimes and delusion and mass delusion in relatively plain english, so that mere mortals such as I could grasp the severe implications.

I felt these two books were so important, I placed them in a directory named scientology.

http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/

Thanks for this thread Arnie. I am going to check Merloo's writings on your site.

When I first got involved with Scientology, I believed all of it, that is everything that I was absorbing at that moment. It just had to be true, because I wanted it to be true, much like a child wants to believe in Santa Claus and Santa bringing toys to every child in the world.

First you have to be willing to suspend critical thinking and then you can walk into Hubbard's Big Tent Show and be wowed.

The reason I was able to finally walk out of the Big Tent Show was that I could no longer continue suppressing my critical thinking.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Arnie, I was answering Uniquemand when he said that hypnosis gets the same results as Dn. I said it doesn't always. That the two things don't get the same results as EACH OTHER.

The techniques are completely different from one another as are the goals.

I've seen hypnotists work. I've been an auditor. I saw different things accomplished in hypnosis sessions than I did in Dianetic or Scn sessions.

I said they were different. I wasn't attacking anything. I also think chocolate is different from nutmeg yet I approve of both.

 

[uniquemand]

I guess the difference is that a hypnotist uses words to get a person to change their mind, whereas an auditor uses words to get a person to change their mind. Very different.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I didn't say there weren't similarities. That doesn't make them identical.

Hypnotists don't try to get the postulate. They don't have the same commands/patter. They don't fly rudiments. Scn auditors don't have to put in a command or suggestion to remember or not remember the session or memories that the person will have or how he should feel when he "wakes up". In fact, they don't have to wake the person up. Hypnotists don't look for erasure of the incident. They don't look for chains.

People in a conversation use words, too, often in an attempt to change someone's mind. That doesn't make that hypnosis (or auditing) either.

Shall I go on?

 

[Thrak]

I didn't say there weren't similarities. That doesn't make them identical.

Hypnotists don't try to get the postulate. They don't have the same commands/patter. They don't fly rudiments. Scn auditors don't have to put in a command or suggestion to remember or not remember the session or memories that the person will have or how he should feel when he "wakes up". In fact, they don't have to wake the person up. Hypnotists don't look for erasure of the incident. They don't look for chains.

Shall I go on?

I still don't get the hypnosis argument. At what point is the suggestion laid in? What are the suggestions that are laid in? What's the point of hypnosis if you don't lay in a suggestion? At the points I became sleepy in session, the only thing the auditor might say is "thank you" or "move to the beginning of the incident". You can quote all the books you want it's not going to change my memories of what I experienced. To me scn uses group agreement/pressure and reality adjustment as control mechanisms. As well as the promise of eternal salvation and guilt of not sacrificing when you could save the world. But probably some are hypnotized who knows? Pretty hard to prove who's hypnotized and who's not.

 

[Magpie]

Auditing, when well done, erases old circuitry, but hypnotism adds new circuitry ...

I guess the difference is that a hypnotist uses words to get a person to change their mind, whereas an auditor uses words to get a person to change their mind. Very different.

It's not, (per my own reckoning) an A = A equation. It's an old discussion, and an old debate, that has been going back and forth for years. The basic theory is that:

1. Hypnotism adds circuitry = less self determinism. This seems immediately obvious.

2. Auditing erases circuitry = more self determinism. This might not be so immediately obvious, particularly if it has been a while since the last session, or if past circuitry has been restimulated, and then not fully erased.

Post 19 on this thread is well written:

http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?boardID=84597&discussionID=203038

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

I guess the difference is that a hypnotist uses words to get a person to change their mind, whereas an auditor uses words to get a person to change their mind. Very different.

Not exactly.. An auditor doesn't give you 'suggestions'.. Hubbards arrangement of mind control is more subtle.

The suggestion is given outside of session. When you are certain that you are not 'suggestible'. Hubbards policies and the adolation of him. The authoritarian group. Ethics.. The commendable ideals work in unison with the threaths.

So what is a 'session'?

It is a time when you look inside your own mind for stupid ideas! - You look in the REACTIVE mind for these stupid ideas. You are certain that this dark and hidden area of your mind has all these stupid ideas. The stupid ideas is making you stupid without you being aware... This is the devious trick of your mind! All that stupid shit that is hidden from your awareness inside your own mind.

In a session you get to recall some of that shit and laugh heartily at how incredibly stupid that was... Win!

So you are confirming and making sure that your mind is filled with stupid shit and fool ideas! - That's what you do in a session!

Then you get out of session.. And read some policy.. You very much take care to DUBLICATE Hubbard! - There's all that stupid shit in your mind, so you have to watch it. Any 'misemotion' or disagreement is some of the stupid shit. You have to DUBLICATE Hubbard.. But only Hubbard! - You have to be an energetical and highpower skeptic! - With anything but Hubbards stuff.. Psychology is wrong techhnology. Science is just dicking around with the MEST universe. The medical field is mostly useless, since problems with the body is psychosomatic. Sickness is caused by some of that stupid shit in your mind.

And you have to take care not to be restimulated! For some reason having some of the stupid shit come up in your head while not in session, suddenly seems incredibly dangerous. Ahh.. And expensive.. Might require a couple of auditing intensives to clear up.. You can't just forget it or ignore it anymore. The C/S will order you, and you must comply so you won't be declared an SP. - So you avoid 'entheta' and change your 'environment' to a 'safe environment'. You root out the SP's from your environment. Expediency says all wogs are suspect.. But even your scientology friends aren't safe. You must stay alert! - And watch what you say!

Erh.. We got deep enough into the rabbit hole.. Pop right out!

 

[Carnaubawax]

Not exactly.. An auditor doesn't give you 'suggestions'.. Hubbards arrangement of mind control is more subtle.

The suggestion is given outside of session. When you are certain that you are not 'suggestible'. Hubbards policies and the adolation of him. The authoritarian group. Ethics.. The commendable ideals work in unison with the threaths.

So what is a 'session'?

It is a time when you look inside your own mind for stupid ideas! - You look in the REACTIVE mind for these stupid ideas. You are certain that this dark and hidden area of your mind has all these stupid ideas. The stupid ideas is making you stupid without you being aware... This is the devious trick of your mind! All that stupid shit that is hidden from your awareness inside your own mind.

In a session you get to recall some of that shit and laugh heartily at how incredibly stupid that was... Win!

So you are confirming and making sure that your mind is filled with stupid shit and fool ideas! - That's what you do in a session!

Then you get out of session.. And read some policy.. You very much take care to DUBLICATE Hubbard! - There's all that stupid shit in your mind, so you have to watch it. Any 'misemotion' or disagreement is some of the stupid shit. You have to DUBLICATE Hubbard.. But only Hubbard! - You have to be an energetical and highpower skeptic! - With anything but Hubbards stuff.. Psychology is wrong techhnology. Science is just dicking around with the MEST universe. The medical field is mostly useless, since problems with the body is psychosomatic. Sickness is caused by some of that stupid shit in your mind.

And you have to take care not to be restimulated! For some reason having some of the stupid shit come up in your head while not in session, suddenly seems incredibly dangerous. Ahh.. And expensive.. Might require a couple of auditing intensives to clear up.. You can't just forget it or ignore it anymore. The C/S will order you, and you must comply so you won't be declared an SP. - So you avoid 'entheta' and change your 'environment' to a 'safe environment'. You root out the SP's from your environment. Expediency says all wogs are suspect.. But even your scientology friends aren't safe. You must stay alert! - And watch what you say!

Erh.. We got deep enough into the rabbit hole.. Pop right out!

Very funny and very true.

 

[Vinaire]

Not exactly.. An auditor doesn't give you 'suggestions'.. Hubbards arrangement of mind control is more subtle.

The suggestion is given outside of session. When you are certain that you are not 'suggestible'. Hubbards policies and the adolation of him. The authoritarian group. Ethics.. The commendable ideals work in unison with the threaths.

So what is a 'session'?

It is a time when you look inside your own mind for stupid ideas! - You look in the REACTIVE mind for these stupid ideas. You are certain that this dark and hidden area of your mind has all these stupid ideas. The stupid ideas is making you stupid without you being aware... This is the devious trick of your mind! All that stupid shit that is hidden from your awareness inside your own mind.

In a session you get to recall some of that shit and laugh heartily at how incredibly stupid that was... Win!

So you are confirming and making sure that your mind is filled with stupid shit and fool ideas! - That's what you do in a session!

Then you get out of session.. And read some policy.. You very much take care to DUBLICATE Hubbard! - There's all that stupid shit in your mind, so you have to watch it. Any 'misemotion' or disagreement is some of the stupid shit. You have to DUBLICATE Hubbard.. But only Hubbard! - You have to be an energetical and highpower skeptic! - With anything but Hubbards stuff.. Psychology is wrong techhnology. Science is just dicking around with the MEST universe. The medical field is mostly useless, since problems with the body is psychosomatic. Sickness is caused by some of that stupid shit in your mind.

And you have to take care not to be restimulated! For some reason having some of the stupid shit come up in your head while not in session, suddenly seems incredibly dangerous. Ahh.. And expensive.. Might require a couple of auditing intensives to clear up.. You can't just forget it or ignore it anymore. The C/S will order you, and you must comply so you won't be declared an SP. - So you avoid 'entheta' and change your 'environment' to a 'safe environment'. You root out the SP's from your environment. Expediency says all wogs are suspect.. But even your scientology friends aren't safe. You must stay alert! - And watch what you say!

Erh.. We got deep enough into the rabbit hole.. Pop right out!

Never looked at it that way but it does make a lot of sense.

.

 

[Tim Skog]

Not exactly.. An auditor doesn't give you 'suggestions'.. Hubbards arrangement of mind control is more subtle.

The suggestion is given outside of session. When you are certain that you are not 'suggestible'. Hubbards policies and the adolation of him. The authoritarian group. Ethics.. The commendable ideals work in unison with the threaths.

So what is a 'session'?

It is a time when you look inside your own mind for stupid ideas! - You look in the REACTIVE mind for these stupid ideas. You are certain that this dark and hidden area of your mind has all these stupid ideas. The stupid ideas is making you stupid without you being aware... This is the devious trick of your mind! All that stupid shit that is hidden from your awareness inside your own mind.

In a session you get to recall some of that shit and laugh heartily at how incredibly stupid that was... Win!

So you are confirming and making sure that your mind is filled with stupid shit and fool ideas! - That's what you do in a session!

Then you get out of session.. And read some policy.. You very much take care to DUBLICATE Hubbard! - There's all that stupid shit in your mind, so you have to watch it. Any 'misemotion' or disagreement is some of the stupid shit. You have to DUBLICATE Hubbard.. But only Hubbard! - You have to be an energetical and highpower skeptic! - With anything but Hubbards stuff.. Psychology is wrong techhnology. Science is just dicking around with the MEST universe. The medical field is mostly useless, since problems with the body is psychosomatic. Sickness is caused by some of that stupid shit in your mind.

And you have to take care not to be restimulated! For some reason having some of the stupid shit come up in your head while not in session, suddenly seems incredibly dangerous. Ahh.. And expensive.. Might require a couple of auditing intensives to clear up.. You can't just forget it or ignore it anymore. The C/S will order you, and you must comply so you won't be declared an SP. - So you avoid 'entheta' and change your 'environment' to a 'safe environment'. You root out the SP's from your environment. Expediency says all wogs are suspect.. But even your scientology friends aren't safe. You must stay alert! - And watch what you say!

Erh.. We got deep enough into the rabbit hole.. Pop right out!

Schwimmel, you nailed it my friend. Excellent description of the auditing trap and how we fool ourselves.

I remember my first Dianetic auditing. My first Bridge action as a newbie was the Drug Rundown. The C/S deemed that I had used so many drugs that I had to go onto the Drug Rundown immediately. Well I got into session and for the next several sessions of my 25 hour intensive I ran nothing but whole track incidents. Fill blown space opera shit.

Of course I thought I was making it up (vivid imagination) but the needle said no.

I completed my drug rundown and had the big win that is the stated EP of the DRD (wow imagine that). I was free from the harmful effects and the need to use drugs. Of course I had been clean for 2-3 months before I started the DRD and never had any cravings and was a relatively sane person at the time. Guess that proved I REALLY needed the DRD. :confused2:

Two years later when I attested to Natural Clear I began to have doubts about the bridge and this whole auditing thing. If I was "always clear" then I sure the fuck didn't need Dianetics.


And maybe I didn't need the rest of the bridge. And eventually I did pop out
of my rabbit hole too!


_____________________________________________
As Neil Young sings: Keep on Rockin in the Freeworld

 

[Thrak]

Not exactly.. An auditor doesn't give you 'suggestions'.. Hubbards arrangement of mind control is more subtle.

The suggestion is given outside of session. When you are certain that you are not 'suggestible'. Hubbards policies and the adolation of him. The authoritarian group. Ethics.. The commendable ideals work in unison with the threaths.

So what is a 'session'?

It is a time when you look inside your own mind for stupid ideas! - You look in the REACTIVE mind for these stupid ideas. You are certain that this dark and hidden area of your mind has all these stupid ideas. The stupid ideas is making you stupid without you being aware... This is the devious trick of your mind! All that stupid shit that is hidden from your awareness inside your own mind.

In a session you get to recall some of that shit and laugh heartily at how incredibly stupid that was... Win!

So you are confirming and making sure that your mind is filled with stupid shit and fool ideas! - That's what you do in a session!

Then you get out of session.. And read some policy.. You very much take care to DUBLICATE Hubbard! - There's all that stupid shit in your mind, so you have to watch it. Any 'misemotion' or disagreement is some of the stupid shit. You have to DUBLICATE Hubbard.. But only Hubbard! - You have to be an energetical and highpower skeptic! - With anything but Hubbards stuff.. Psychology is wrong techhnology. Science is just dicking around with the MEST universe. The medical field is mostly useless, since problems with the body is psychosomatic. Sickness is caused by some of that stupid shit in your mind.

And you have to take care not to be restimulated! For some reason having some of the stupid shit come up in your head while not in session, suddenly seems incredibly dangerous. Ahh.. And expensive.. Might require a couple of auditing intensives to clear up.. You can't just forget it or ignore it anymore. The C/S will order you, and you must comply so you won't be declared an SP. - So you avoid 'entheta' and change your 'environment' to a 'safe environment'. You root out the SP's from your environment. Expediency says all wogs are suspect.. But even your scientology friends aren't safe. You must stay alert! - And watch what you say!

Erh.. We got deep enough into the rabbit hole.. Pop right out!

I'll buy that. The only thing is there are many in the SO who buy it hook line and sinker that never get any auditing. Also many of the processes do actually help discharge emotion which isn't just stupid if you are plagued by that so you don't really have the "cog" that that was stupid. I still assert that there is some positive tech and that that positive tech keeps you going. I've seen this theme from many videos from exes. "I had a huge win on ____ but then it went to shit" But after those early "wins" you are told it just gets better which for some it actually seems to but from my experience I could never get any sort of win similar to the early auditing so I was getting more and more skeptical. By the point you get to "OT" you are just purely going on "Hubbard said it so it must be true". So all I'm saying is there is something good there but it's just used as cheese in the trap. I mean there must be something there or more would walk away at the beginning. It's usually not an instant process to turn someone into a Hubbardite.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I still don't get the hypnosis argument. At what point is the suggestion laid in? What are the suggestions that are laid in? What's the point of hypnosis if you don't lay in a suggestion? At the points I became sleepy in session, the only thing the auditor might say is "thank you" or "move to the beginning of the incident". You can quote all the books you want it's not going to change my memories of what I experienced. To me scn uses group agreement/pressure and reality adjustment as control mechanisms. As well as the promise of eternal salvation and guilt of not sacrificing when you could save the world. But probably some are hypnotized who knows? Pretty hard to prove who's hypnotized and who's not.

I'm not making a hypnosis argument. Uniquemand and Arnie are. I merely said it isn't identical to Dn. Then a bunch of responses ensued. I'm sooo not getting into a "yes, Dn is hypnosis" "no, it's not" "yes it is" "no it's not" thang. I'm not going to do it.

 

[uniquemand]

Actually, I'm not making a "hypnosis argument", other than that anybody doing anything that alters the state of the trance you are in is in a very general sense, hypnosis.

Some of you may think you aren't in a trance. I invite you to do something which puts you in a wildly different environment than you are accustomed to. Bet you'll realize you've been in a trance. And that you are now in another trance. The trick is to realize that you are always in one sort of trance or another, and that you can control it.