The Ashtray? "Stand Up!""Thank you!" ..."Sit down in that chair!" "Thank you!"

oldtimer

Patron
Oldtimer, I don't want to offend you but feel that I must reply here that in many cultures it is considered to be rude for a woman to look directly into a man's eyes, or for a younger person to do that with an older person. Very likely, to her viewpoint, you were staring and she was trying to maintain a respectful distance, and stay on friendly terms. Looking directly into someone's eyes is also considered to be a flirtatious opening or even a sexual/romantic "comeon" in almost all cultures that I know of. Many religiously devout people of both sexes practice "conservation of the eyes" when speaking even with close friends of the opposite sex. Many of my friends do so, and I understand and don't fault them for it.

In some cultures, a too direct look or stare is an invitation to fight, and makes people tend to get combative or withdraw for their own protection. (Called "Hard looks" in the barrio and "Stink eye" in Hawaii!)

One of the "tells" of a Scientologist and some former Scientologists (or an OSA operative sent in to a group as a "spy" or enturbulator) is how aberated the way they look at people is, from the norm of mainstream culture. They do tend to stare, give hard looks, look directly too much and for too long into one's face, try and "capture" someones eyes and attention in this way. Even when they are talking and smiling, they still tend to put people off and make them uncomfortable, often folks can't pinpoint exactly what it is, something just seems "off" about them, due to their habitual too direct gazes and staring at someone.

At the risk of being stoned...I will also report that many social workers, teachers, cops, mental health workers and others are taught in their training that in a person who is looking at someone too directly, holding a gaze for too long, or refusing to drop one's eyes in conversation, that is a "tell" of certain kinds of mental illness. Really! I got this in my professional training.

I think Ron did it to try and make his paramilitary group intimidating. It does not imply good communication skills at all, in and of itself.

No, I was just doing a pretty good TR, which is what most sociable people in Kansas are able to do. And I know it was her TR's, because today I got a haircut in the same shop from my favorite, who is hilarious, and she did not have any trouble looking at me when I was paying her and leaving the store. As far as different cultures, you might have something there. I have not studied up on cultures, so I do not doubt you on that part at all. Have a good evening.
 
Yes, maybe she is just shy...or a little socially inhibited...many people are. :)

I think Gibby's comments were meant to encourage you, Oldtimer. :unsure: Maybe the tough love approach? :nervous:

Gibby, were you ever in the Marines? :biggrin:

OldTimer, the advice to read everything about Scientology and COS you can find is really good! Knowledge is power! I think it will help to give you the forward motion you need to move on with your life! :happydance:

Anyway, good for you for getting out!!! :thumbsup: :clap:

Your life will really improve when you can put the Cult behind you, based upon the experience of almost everyone here. Meanwhile, you've got us to nag..oops, encourage you! :biggrin: :melodramatic:
 

Gib

Crusader
Okay, I am getting out!!! Are you trying to jerk me around or what? I thought this forum was to help people, not to put themdown.:biggrin:

No intent to put down or jerk you around. You are self determined. I can't determine what you do or think. Only you can can do that.
 

Gib

Crusader
Gibby, were you ever in the Marines? :biggrin:

To answer your question. No. Just the hard knocks school of being involved with scientology for 26 years in view of what I have experienced and seen in others involved. And others involved means from raw recruit (newbie) to OT8 (fully indoctrinated) and/or trained and not trained in the auditing technology/system.
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Okay, I am getting out!!! Are you trying to jerk me around or what? I thought this forum was to help people, not to put themdown.:biggrin:

Ole Timer ~ I understand how you feel - please understand the danger of Scientology - just going in to "talk" to someone has devastated lives and there are people here on this board to tell the damage it did. I got my friend "back in" - and they were "regged" so much that it caused BANKRUPCY and DIVORCE!! I wish I had not "recoverd" them. They are OUT now and will never go back. Help in Scientology ALWAYS equals BETRAYAL!!

So - when you encounter those that are inpatient about this subject - it is like demanding that a little puppy (innocent and good) not go out in the street - it is dangerous.

You take your time - do what you have to do - know that we all don't want you harmed by what Scientology really is - a Cult that traps people with the promise of HELP!!
 

Mest Lover

Not Sea Org Qualified
I never got that drill! I finally just said I can get my intention into something - but I really did not buy it. Perhaps that is my "missed withhold" and why I blew Scientology?
fwwhistling.gif


Every Org I have been into (6 total) - had those clear golden or green huge ashtrays popular in the 50's! It is a religious artifact that Hubbard and Mismanagement has patented and have all copyrights on!)
rollseyes.gif


Seriously - WTF was that all about! Screaming at an ashtray? Really Hubbard???

Any thoughts or is it just part of having you do crazy things so you can learn to scream at the degraded beings that were junior to you once you joined staff or Sea Org - the ultimate product of auditing or training?


I did mine on the rooftop of the NYO. I could hear it echoing off the walls of the buildings next to it. I was wondering what the people on the street were thinking about that if they could hear it. It was at night. I pretty much got nothing out of it but thought it was rather stupid.
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
I did mine on the rooftop of the NYO. I could hear it echoing off the walls of the buildings next to it. I was wondering what the people on the street were thinking about that if they could hear it. It was at night. I pretty much got nothing out of it but thought it was rather stupid.

I did Upper Indoc TRs (TR 6-9) as early as the HQS (Hubbard Qualified Scientologist) Course in 1975, and many times thereafter, for courses, crams, internships, etc. Upper Indocs are on the Level I checksheet.

There are also drills similar to TR 8 for solo auditors and upper level cases, which I did several times in my advanced courses training, internships, crams, etc.

Hubbard said:

TR 8-Q

NUMBER: TR 8-Q

NAME: Tone 40 Assessment.

POSITION: Same as TR 8 where the student is in one chair facing another chair on which sits an ashtray, the coach sitting beside the student in a third chair. A square, four-cornered ashtray is used.

PURPOSE: To deliver the THOUGHT of a question into an exact position, wide or narrow at decision, that is a question, with or without words.

COMMANDS: For the first part of the drill: "Are you an ashtray?" "Are you made of glass?" "Are you sitting there?" Second part of drill: Same questions silently. Third part of drill: "Are you a corner?" to each corner of the ashtray, verbal and with intention at the same time. Fourth part of drill: Any applicable question, verbal and with intention at the same time, put broad and narrow at choice into the ashtray, exact parts of it and the surroundings.

TRAINING STRESS: The coach uses usual TR coaching commands. There are four stages to the drill. The first stage is to land a verbal command into the ashtray. The second stage is to put the question with full intention silently into the ashtray. The third stage is to put verbal command and silent intention at the same time into exact parts of the ashtray. The fourth stage is to put any applicable question both verbally and with intention into any narrow or any broad portion of the ashtray or its surrounds at choice and at will. The coach puts out his finger or his hands to indicate various spots and locations in space around the ashtray. The coach also makes the student put thoughts precisely into areas, some narrow and some wide, above the student's head and behind his back by putting his finger or hands in those places. (Coach doesn't touch student's body.) At the conclusion of the whole drill imagine the ashtray saying, "Yes, yes, yes, yes" in an avalanche of "yeses" to balance the flow (in actual life, people, pcs and meters do respond and return the flow).

END PHENOMENA: The ability to land a question with full intention into an exact target area, broad or narrow, at will and effectively, whether verbally or
silently.

HISTORY: Developed by L. Ron Hubbard in April 1980 as an extension of all earlier work on intention and Tone 40, as now applied to questions and assessments.

Hubbard, L. (1980, 22 April) Assessment Drills Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and Scientology (1991 ed., Vol XII, pp. 29-36) Los Angeles: Bridge Publications, Inc.

In this NOTs issue, Hubbard ordered the application of TR 8-Q to the handling of non-metaphorical body thetans.

Hubbard said:

PIN-POINTING ATTENTION

It is essential that the NOTs PreOT limits his/her attention to the BT/cluster being addressed. You can get a mish-mash if their attention goes onto something else. I have developed TR 8-Q (HCOB 22 Apr 80) which is an exercise in pin-pointing attention as well as asking a question. Requiring a NOTs PreOT to do TR 8-Q will remedy this.

Hubbard, L. (1980, 24 May) NED FOR OT SERIES 52 CONFIDENTIAL URGENT-IMPORTANT NOTS WHAT/WHO L & N STEP

This drill was on the Solo Auditor Course I did.

Hubbard said:

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO BULLETIN OF 14 OCTOBER 1981​

AOs & SHs ONLY
Hubbard Solo Auditor
Course Students
Hubbard Solo Auditor
Course Supervisors

LIMITED
DISTRIBUTION


TR 8-Q DRILL FOR SOLO AUDITOR TRAINING
(Ref: HCOB 22 Apr 80, ASSESSMENT DRILLS)​


The following drill was developed to increase a Pre-OT’s ability to control and use attention and intention. The drill enhances a Pre-OT’s ability to solo audit. It follows the basic format outlined in TR 8-Q in HCOB 22 Apr 80 ASSESSMENT DRILLS, but contains additional steps specifically developed to increase a PreOT’s ability.

NUMBER: TR 8-Q (for Solo Auditor Training)

NAME: TONE 40 ASSESSMENT

POSITION: Same as TR 8 where the student is in one chair facing another chair on which sits an ashtray, the coach sitting beside the student in a third chair. A square four-cornered ashtray is used.

PURPOSE: To deliver the THOUGHT of a question into an exact position, wide or narrow at decision, that is a question, with or without words.

COMMANDS: For the first part of the drill: Are you an ashtray? Are you made of glass? Are you sitting there? Second part of drill: Same questions silently. Third part of drill: Are you a corner? to each corner of the ashtray, verbal and with intention at the same time. Fourth part of drill: Any applicable question, verbal and with intention at the same time put broad and narrow at choice Into the ashtray, exact parts of it and the surroundings. Fifth part of drill: Any applicable question put silently and with intention in exact spots around the student’s body, as indicated by the coach.

TRAINING STRESS: The coach uses usual TR coaching commands. There are five stages to the drill.

FIRST STAGE: The first stage is to land a verbal command into the ashtray. The coach has the student ask the ashtray: "Are you an ashtray?" "Are you made of glass?" "Are you sitting there?" This is done until the student can do the drill easily.

SECOND STAGE: The second stage is to put the question with full intention silently into the ashtray. The same questions are asked silently, until the student can do it easily and with certainty.

THIRD STAGE: The student asks the following question: "Are you a corner?" to each corner of the ashtray, putting verbal command and silent intention at the same time, Into exact parts of the ashtray. This is done until the student can do it easily.

FOURTH STAGE: The coach has the student put any applicable question both with verbal command and with silent intention at the same time Into any narrow or any broad portion of the ashtray or its surrounds, at choice and at will. This is done until the student can do the drill easily and can put a question into an exact position, wide or narrow, at decision.

FIFTH STAGE: The coach has the student put thoughts precisely in exact spots around the student’s body. (NOTE: Make sure the student can think in a concept rather than words and that he can put that concept in exact points around him at will.)

(a) The coach has the student put thoughts in exact spots in front of the student’s body. The coach indicates the spot by putting his finger in the spot into which the student is to place a thought. The spots would be in areas in front of the student’s body, but not touching the stu-dent’s body. This is done until the student is proficient at it.

(b) The coach has the student put a thought in exact spots above the student’s head, and behind the student’s body. The coach indicates the spot by putting his finger in the spot into which the student is to place a thought. The coach does not touch the student’s body. The drill is done until the student is quite expert at exactly placing a thought exactly where he wants it.

CONCLUSION: At the conclusion of the whole drill, the coach has the student imagine the ashtray saying "Yes, yes, yes, yes" in an avalanche of yeses to balance the flow (in actual life, people, pcs and meters do respond and return the flow.)

END PHENOMENA: The ability to land a question with full intention Into an exact target area, broad or narrow, at will and effectively, whether verbally or silently.

HISTORY: Developed by L. Ron Hubbard in 1980, as an extension of all earlier work on intention and Tone 40, as now applied to questions and assessments and the exact placement of thought.


L. RON HUBBARD
FOUNDER

Accepted by the

BOARD OF DIRECTORS
of the
CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY
of CALIFORNIA​

BDCSC:LRH:bk
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I did Upper Indoc TRs (TR 6-9) as early as the HQS (Hubbard Qualified Scientologist) Course in 1975, and many times thereafter, for courses, crams, internships, etc. Upper Indocs are on the Level I checksheet.

There are also drills similar to TR 8 for solo auditors and upper level cases, which I did several times in my advanced courses training, internships, crams, etc.



In this NOTs issue, Hubbard ordered the application of TR 8-Q to the handling of non-metaphorical body thetans.



This drill was on the Solo Auditor Course I did.

We need a "comm cycle" example from Helluvahoax displaying for us what this ^^^ would be like whilst communicating with a BT .. getting their name...where they are from...are they clear...are they oat tea....and why are they being a pain in the zorch and how to get in arc with them so one can command them to leave! Then find out where they went - I hope they don't go attach themselves to another Oat Tea in the confidential auditing courseroom...that would really suck and be very very expensive.

Wanna give it a go Hoaxie? Please!!
 

X-Member-Hooray

Patron with Honors
Does anyone remember in the early 80s that Orgs were actually getting students to do TR O for an hour without blinking? I really struggled with the point of this, but completely had to admire one guy who succeeded in this feat of looking at someone for 60 minutes without even one blink of the eyes.

I bet years later he wonders how whacky that actually was. He was a fairly newish student, and in scn for less than 12 months.
 

DoneDeal

Patron Meritorious
Oh sure....now it's starting to impinge.......the one thing I was really really good at in scn.

I reached TR 8. It was a powerful moment....

For years and years on I've wondered if I should have felt like a fool screaming at that ashtray or if I was indeed cool cause I was doing something different than the other people in the building that could probably hear me.

I recommend to any punk rockers out there to NOT get involved in scn.

Buy my book.
 

Techless

Patron Meritorious
[Seriously - WTF was that all about! Screaming at an ashtray? Really Hubbard???

I think it HAD to do with smoking actually - Hubbub was getting the followers to scream at 'em so it might help him quit.

That makes total sense to me, but I'm abnormal

TL - still smokin' (didn't yell enough)
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
Does anyone remember in the early 80s that Orgs were actually getting students to do TR O for an hour without blinking? I really struggled with the point of this, but completely had to admire one guy who succeeded in this feat of looking at someone for 60 minutes without even one blink of the eyes.

I bet years later he wonders how whacky that actually was. He was a fairly newish student, and in scn for less than 12 months.

Actually, the no-blink TR0 was going on in the 1970s.
I did it (but I was young and naive back then).
I don't think that there is any benefit from doing it.

But a person will eventually get a "look" about them (the so-called thousand yard stare) from doing many hours of that.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
[Seriously - WTF was that all about! Screaming at an ashtray? Really Hubbard???

I think it HAD to do with smoking actually - Hubbub was getting the followers to scream at 'em so it might help him quit.

That makes total sense to me, but I'm abnormal

TL - still smokin' (didn't yell enough)

It comprised like 25% of the entire drill, though. There was a portion where it's done silently, a portion w/ whispering and a portion with normal voice.

So what about the other three fourths? :coolwink:
 

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
I think the important point here -if you want to realize what Laffy was really up to- is the fact that if your spending hours 'intending' orders to an ashtray, you are also being ordered...to do that drill! You are back-handedly training YOURSELF to always comply with authoritatively given commands.

This was his real magnum opus. That he set up a system where we all hypnotized OURSELVES AND EACH OTHER to obey Scientology, and by extention, the founder.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
That's harder to make fun of? :confused2:

Exactly. My thought is this- if people don't like the drill and don't agree with it, think it's crap, then fine. But for years now, on critical fora, I've been seeing posts about yelling at ashtrays as if that was the entirety of the drill. It's not even the majority.

I just prefer critiques over criticism. :biggrin:
 

oldtimer

Patron
No intent to put down or jerk you around. You are self determined. I can't determine what you do or think. Only you can can do that.

Thanks for clarifying, I am no longer upset. I hope all is going well with you, and I will soon be completely routed out.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Does anyone remember in the early 80s that Orgs were actually getting students to do TR O for an hour without blinking? I really struggled with the point of this, but completely had to admire one guy who succeeded in this feat of looking at someone for 60 minutes without even one blink of the eyes.

I bet years later he wonders how whacky that actually was. He was a fairly newish student, and in scn for less than 12 months.


I did that in the '70's. You'd get a Flunk for blinking.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Yep. I heard about that. I was told Blinkless TR0 went away in the late 70s but who knows. Maybe it continued a while longer?
 
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