The Betrayal of Bob Minton

AnonKat

Crusader
WTF, Arnie lerma 'splain plox :unsure:

http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/recog/betrayal.htm

In Fall 2001, Deanna Holmes and several other people were busy annoying Bob Minton by publicly deriding him on the alt.religion.scientology news group. This annoyed Minton, and he complained about it to several people. One of those he complained to was Ken Dandar, lawyer for the Lisa McPherson estate in a wrongful death lawsuit against Scientology. Dandar, in turn, told the news group posters that they were annoying Minton, and the negative postings subsequently stopped. This was adequate proof for the Mintons that Dandar had control over the annoying postings. Mintons, as in two of them. Another person Minton told about this was a woman by the name of Therese Minton, his wife.

Years ago, Minton gave Scientology what it needed to stop him from funding anti-Scientology litigation. As long as his wife continued to give him her support, he would continue. Despite many difficulties, Therese stuck with Bob, just so long as he remained a man of principle.

The principles fell apart in February 2002. Dandar told Minton the McPherson case needed more money if it was to continue. Minton hesitated, but finally relented with a check for $300,000. As it turned out, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. The Mintons, and others by now, suspected that Dandar both had control over those who were disparaging the McPherson estate's benefactor, and that Dandar was mismanaging the McPherson case.

In short, by giving people who publicly reviled him that much money, Minton was both supporting unprincipled behavior and exercising poor judgment in handling the Mintons' money. Therese gave the ultimatum: get the money back or stop the fight. Minton argued but lost. He asked Dandar to return the money, but the lawyer said it had already been spent. That left Bob one path to saving his married life. Seek settlement. He approached Scientology leader Mike Rinder with a heavy heart but was fully resigned to the task at hand.

As a matter of fact, Rinder already had a precondition. Minton would have to make a clean breast of the Lisa McPherson case. Minton was shocked that Rinder knew enough to make this allusion. It turned out Minton had falsified a statement he made for the McPherson case. Minton was to later assert that not only was Ken Dandar privy to his misconduct, but had encouraged him. Rinder, Minton was convinced, had to have had an inside informant and who else, Minton wandered out loud in his testimony, but Patricia Greenway would have means, motive and opportunity to do so.

This brought the millionaire to a realization. If he had not approached Rinder to settle his differences with Scientology, then Scientology would have had the equivalent of blackmail material on him. This would have been especially significant after Scientology settled the McPherson case. Besides the millions he had already given Dandar, the anti-Scientology crusader would have been liable to the cult for millions more. In reality, whatever the McPherson case was settled for would likely have come from Minton's own pocket via Scientology.

Minton breathed a heavy sigh of relief and let Dandar know that he was going to testify against him for Scientology. The suspicions that Dandar was an unprincipled man were soon confirmed. The slanderous campaign against Minton was renewed within days. It started with malicious speculation, and eventually transcended the bounds of common sense almost completely into the realm of the fantastic. When the legal situation demanded the fantastic accusations against Minton come to an end in the United States, responsibility for the false accusations was merely shifted overseas. Within weeks Martin Ottmann came up with an unbelievably distorted list of wrongoing that easily competed with Scientology's earlier allegations against Minton of moneylaundering.

http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/recog/betrayal.htm
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Oh goody. Yet another moron who wants to re-fight the Minton Wars. Not Arnie meant here.

Zinj
 

AnonKat

Crusader
I assume it's there because it is or was Arnie's opinion. Why's it *here*?

Zinj

Well Ken Dandar isn't coming out to well in Arnie's opinion. Zinj are you and Arnie at ods with eachother ?

Ken Dandar popped up in the current wrongfull death case.
 

byte301

Crusader
They are all having tea with the queen at the moment bawwing about who deserves to be in goverment.

Alsoo KEN DANDAR

So write some to the Canadian pols. Or better yet the U.S. pols. We don't have a Queen so you can't use that excuse. We do have a lot of court jesters though.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
So write some to the Canadian pols. Or better yet the U.S. pols. We don't have a Queen so you can't use that excuse. We do have a lot of court jesters though.

LOL Dutch Queen not the UK Queen and yes I like Jesters , they tend to wear Guy Fawkes Masks these days mocking sone kind of "church"
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
A snippet from today, posted to Mark Fisher's notes page on his facebook
http://www.facebook.com/notes.php?id=1404429832&notes_tab=app_2347471856

David Lebow.. let me count the ways...
a) played a homeless guy at 1997 McPherson pickets

b) played a homeless ex sea org and showed up on Bob Minton's doorstep in New Hampshire

c) played a homeless guy with a cell fone trying to invite himself to stay with me at my home in virginia

d) before the LMT was started, I got a call from Bob Minton, who said that he had troubles in Geneva, with the Swiss authorities regarding his accounts. I referred him to a freind of mine who used to be a Fed. What was found out was that David Lebow had gone to Geneva and using a shore story, and NOT disclosing who he was working for, hired the head of the ex-head of the Geneva Bar Association, who then passed on scientology's lies top the Swiss financial police. When the ex-head of the Geneva bar found out who his client David Lebow was working for he ended the association. Meanwhile my friend made it all go away ( having had to go there to deal with it ).

e) In Stay's harassment of bob minton timeline there is a mention of Bob's partner's offices in Geneva being burglarized - this is NOT what happenned. Bob told me that during settlement discussions with Mike RInder that Mike Rinder had stated, when asked about Bob's partner 'burglary), that Scientology had paid 50,000 to the concierge (who used his pass key) for a xerox copy of every piece of paper in the man's private office at that hotel in Geneva. This would have been Lebow, cause he was there.

--------------------
 

AnonKat

Crusader
A snippet from today, posted to Mark Fisher's notes page on his facebook
http://www.facebook.com/notes.php?id=1404429832&notes_tab=app_2347471856

David Lebow.. let me count the ways...
a) played a homeless guy at 1997 McPherson pickets

b) played a homeless ex sea org and showed up on Bob Minton's doorstep in New Hampshire

c) played a homeless guy with a cell fone trying to invite himself to stay with me at my home in virginia

d) before the LMT was started, I got a call from Bob Minton, who said that he had troubles in Geneva, with the Swiss authorities regarding his accounts. I referred him to a freind of mine who used to be a Fed. What was found out was that David Lebow had gone to Geneva and using a shore story, and NOT disclosing who he was working for, hired the head of the ex-head of the Geneva Bar Association, who then passed on scientology's lies top the Swiss financial police. When the ex-head of the Geneva bar found out who his client David Lebow was working for he ended the association. Meanwhile my friend made it all go away ( having had to go there to deal with it ).

e) In Stay's harassment of bob minton timeline there is a mention of Bob's partner's offices in Geneva being burglarized - this is NOT what happenned. Bob told me that during settlement discussions with Mike RInder that Mike Rinder had stated, when asked about Bob's partner 'burglary), that Scientology had paid 50,000 to the concierge (who used his pass key) for a xerox copy of every piece of paper in the man's private office at that hotel in Geneva. This would have been Lebow, cause he was there.

--------------------

I am focussing on Ken Dandar's role because he is involved in a current wrongfull death lawsuit concerning the Church of Scientology
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well Ken Dandar isn't coming out to well in Arnie's opinion. Zinj are you and Arnie at ods with eachother ?

Ken Dandar popped up in the current wrongfull death case.

Zinj used to hang out with us on an IRC channel, until we got tired of his constant blathering about not very much which was insufferable while he was drunk, and banned him. He had already been banned from the 'other' channel.

He then engaged in a series channel takeover attempts, and ended up wasting so much time that I gave up IRC entirely.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
I am focussing on Ken Dandar's role because he is involved in a current wrongfull death lawsuit concerning the Church of Scientology

Hope that one turns out well.

Some folks have laid claim to have 'helped' Ken Dandar...
How much 'help' and what kind of 'help' does it take to bring a case to the identical outcome desired by Scientology?

no money to run an anti-cult support outfit for for x-members (that was the original plan), AND everyone gagged

paying a cash settlement is merely the cost of doing business for a fraud.

----------

In the settlement proposals faxed to me before RTC vs Lerma went final - there was a line that we would never be able to financial assist -or- advise other cult members recovering from scientology. We said NO.

In Brian Haney's settlement with Zwan, there was list of names he could not provide help to, including myself and Bob Minton and many others. Bob had been relying on brian haney's handshake that Brian would help finance the operations of the LMT. That settlement came just prior to Bob's wife getting a telephone call that "Bob and stacy slept in your bed last night at your home in Boston" that caused her to empty the joint account with bob. The next day bob announced he was going to have to shut down the LMT.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Zinj used to hang out with us on an IRC channel, until we got tired of his constant blathering about not very much which was insufferable while he was drunk, and banned him. He had already been banned from the 'other' channel.

He then engaged in a series channel takeover attempts, and ended up wasting so much time that I gave up IRC entirely.

To his defense. I think Zinj very coherent on ESMB. I fully understand his objections to Marty Rathbun and anyone elses, althoug I think his belief that Rathbun and David Miscavige are in this together is to much.

No problem if he loaths the guy, but keep the tinmfoil to a minium.

I never have had the slightest sense that Zinj was blabbing, I on the other hand can be a mystery sometimes even to myself.

Zinj has surely felt the brunt of the veil COS, I like him very much.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Hope that one turns out well.

Some folks have laid claim to have 'helped' Ken Dandar...
How much 'help' and what kind of 'help' does it take to bring a case to the identical outcome desired by Scientology?

no money to run an anti-cult support outfit for for x-members (that was the original plan), AND everyone gagged

paying a cash settlement is merely the cost of doing business for a fraud.

----------

In the settlement proposals faxed to me before RTC vs Lerma went final - there was a line that we would never be able to financial assist -or- advise other cult members recovering from scientology. We said NO.

In Brian Haney's settlement with Zwan, there was list of names he could not provide help to, including myself and Bob Minton and many others. Bob had been relying on brian haney's handshake that Brian would help finance the operations of the LMT. That settlement came just prior to Bob's wife getting a telephone call that "Bob and stacy slept in your bed last night at your home in Boston" that caused her to empty the joint account with bob. The next day bob announced he was going to have to shut down the LMT.

Okay I am going to be honest and come out with it. Your piece that I posted onhere confuses me. Is Kandar without fault or is he a mean lawyer who is just right for the job in these cases.

In other words , does he do Imoral things for money ?
 
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Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
That is why Arnie's piece confuses me. I read it and get a sense he sugests Kandar played Mintons strings.

Bob had a LOT of money.
Money changes people.
Dandar's prior biggest judgment was 50 grand I believe.
The man was out of his league...
Further, a small firm or one or two man show cannot do a big case without fatal errors of omission when faced with every jurists nightmare - a psycho opponent with money.. and multiple firms and lawyers and decades of experience confusing judges and jurys.

If the facts are with you argue the facts.
If the law is with you argue the law.
If neither just throw up a constant barrage of crap (ad hominem, plus confusion techniques, obfuscations, fallacies..)
in hopes some of it sticks while beating the religious persecution drums and generate legal costs, (run you out of money), delays, and harassment until everyone including the judge JUST WANTS IT TO GO AWAY.
All while
Sound familiar?
Read the christofferson eval on Gerry Armstrongs site.
"bring sufficient pressure to bear (*a ruse*) (upon a matter of no consequence* note) until the target believes he must seek refuge in lies, then prosecute/discredit him for that"!
This same technique is used analagously against those scientology does not want listened to on the net.

Note: even the judge finally said, who cares how much money bob gave ken (2.5 million) but by then it was too late.
 
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AnonKat

Crusader
Bob had a LOT of money.
Money changes people.
Dandar's prior biggest judgment was 50 grand I believe.
The man was out of his league...
Further, a small firm or one or two man show cannot do a big case without fatal errors of omission when faced with every jurists nightmare - a psycho opponent with money.. and multiple firms and lawyers and decades of experience confusing judges and jurys.

If the facts are with you argue the facts.
If the law is with you argue the law.
If neither just throw up a constant barrage of crap (ad hominem, plus confusion techniques, obfuscations, fallacies..)
in hopes some of it sticks while beating the religious persecution drums.
Sound familiar?

So because he was out of his league he became :

The suspicions that Dandar was an unprincipled man were soon confirmed. The slanderous campaign against Minton was renewed within days.

So Ken Dandar was basicly a good man but got abberated because he was overwelmed by enturbulation by the Supressive CO$ and he as a Thetan forgot his true Nature ?
:coolwink:
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
That case cost many their soul,
when hard pressed against the spikes of adversity
Some will yield to expediency...
as they already had Bob's money.
While before courage seemed less dear,
now they had something to lose,
 
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