THE BLACK HEART OF DIANETICS AND SCIENTOLOGY;THE BLACK HEART OF L RON HUBBARD

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Okay , thanks to EVERYBODY who read or responded to this thread, I feel I got a lot of great feedback.:clap:

First off I can see that I rushed it off in a quickie form without a lot of the simple supporting info I intended to include and need to do another post ,or thread with some of this to make myself clearer: I plan on giving what I hope will be clearer info and more supporting evidence.:duh:

As a guideline I can say just about everywhere lrh refers to confusion in the "tech", HE is causing it and MISDIRECTING your attention as a hypnotic technique!

As to "proving" hypnosis exists, for me that ships set : many people more learned than me have tested , experimented and attested both to it's existence and effectiveness. I would be just a strawman, and suggest anyone who doubt it OR it's use in scientology study "lermanet hypnosis " or study the history of psychology or psychiatry , both have a long history of using hypnotic techniques and therapies.:thumbsup:

Regarding Intentionally Blank, I understand your frustration ; I still have many people I love trapped by the cult and don't know how to free them.:bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:

I'm afraid that if I approach them as a critic they will simply "trigger" thought stopping mechanisms and reject me and ANYTHING I say.


I think sometimes you only get one shot to "talk" to some one deep in a cult; you don't want to fail and lose them.

I read and highly recommend Freedom of Mind by Steven Hassan, it directly addresses exactly your situation.

I also recommend reading the cult test by A Orange (it's free online) and Eric Hoffer's True Believer.

I don't know if you can get a hold of Arnie Lerma or Jon Atack or Steven Hassan, they all have a lot more experience and knowledge than I do about this.

You can also call Tory Magoo, she has been great to me and says on her videos she'll talk to ANYBODY and she's helped expose the cult's crimes!:thumbsup:

I myself am newly escaped from the cult, and just barely starting to try to find out what happened to me ,and how to put myself and my life back together

BUT I want to wish you all the success in the world at freeing your loved one to live their own life and take away one of the cult's slaves; ALL people should have a chance to be free and live as themselves.
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
This has to be one of the most fascinating things I've read in a long time. I'm a long time amateur student of psychology and pathology (married to a multi year scn .... go figure .....) which is not to say I'm at expert at anything. I just find it incredibly intriguing.

MB - thank you for your kind words. I will read those resources. I've been familiar with Hassan's work for a long time in a non-scn field, actually. I keep meaning to pull it out again and re-read it with this topic in mind.

It just seems to me..... if we understand the patterns that are used to induce dissonance, confusion, and mind control....... then there must be techniques family members can use to gently poke through the bubble. For example, when I recognize scientoleogese I always ask for clarification in real words. "I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean by [fill in the blank] can you expand on that?"

It's possible that occasionally my native bluntness comes out. The other day we were talking about something that happened in our neighborhood and M/rs Blanky said, "well something can be done about it!" To which I blurted back, "That's a totally not helpful platitude." Then we had to word clear platitude......

a remark or statement, especially one with a moral content, that has been used too often to be interesting or thoughtful.


S/he was cranky about that for hours.
:angel:
 

Queenmab321

Patron Meritorious
This has to be one of the most fascinating things I've read in a long time. I'm a long time amateur student of psychology and pathology (married to a multi year scn .... go figure .....) which is not to say I'm at expert at anything. I just find it incredibly intriguing.

MB - thank you for your kind words. I will read those resources. I've been familiar with Hassan's work for a long time in a non-scn field, actually. I keep meaning to pull it out again and re-read it with this topic in mind.

It just seems to me..... if we understand the patterns that are used to induce dissonance, confusion, and mind control....... then there must be techniques family members can use to gently poke through the bubble. For example, when I recognize scientoleogese I always ask for clarification in real words. "I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean by [fill in the blank] can you expand on that?"

It's possible that occasionally my native bluntness comes out. The other day we were talking about something that happened in our neighborhood and M/rs Blanky said, "well something can be done about it!" To which I blurted back, "That's a totally not helpful platitude." Then we had to word clear platitude......



S/he was cranky about that for hours.[/FONT]:angel:

PLATITUDE, n. The fundamental element and special glory of popular literature. A thought that snores in words that smoke. The wisdom of a million fools in the diction of a dullard. A fossil sentiment in artificial rock. A moral without the fable. All that is mortal of a departed truth. A demi-tasse of milk-and-mortality. The Pope's-nose of a featherless peacock. A jelly-fish withering on the shore of the sea of thought. The cackle surviving the egg. A desiccated epigram.

Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
But they still make some good points. And I would still like to know what kind of evidence base exists for hypnotism. Did you watch it?

Ok, that's 26 minutes of my life I'll never get back. :why::puke::overanalyser: But I stuck it out to the bitter end cuz I like you and I said I would.

So here are my thoughts. When they said that things like pain management are described as hypnosis and they started out the show with a laundry list of things that are described in this way as hynosis, that was a rather sizeable error.

Not true. It's alleged by some that they can use hypnosis for pain management. That is not the same thing. Seems to me that if you're analyzing something, you'd want to be precise. (green can also be described as blue plus yellow, etc.)

And nowhere in the show did they mention inducing or experiencing trance states. I don't recall their mentioning the word "trance". How do you analyze hypnosis without addressing trances? Even if you think hypnosis is bullshit.

There are quite a few critics who think that auditing and TRs are dependent on trance states. Wonder what they'd think of the video. (Yours truly thinks that it's occasionally true of auditing but not re TRs, ever.)

It's a fact that there are charlatans and fakes out there. And people who believe in the delusions they are selling or giving away for free. People invent things for personal gain- like that Wendi lady. People lie. People believe things that aren't true and then get other people involved in those things. Although I personally think Penn and Teller and the Amazing Randi are professional evangelical skeptics who discount a lot of things and leave things out of their analyses and that they are flat out wrong on occasion, I would still say one is better being even like them, even that skeptical than in being ripped off by charlatans.

Why do I say that? Because it's difficult for even a pretty analytical savvy smart person to figure out what's truth and what's falsehood. And since some people are not as smart as others and don't analyze or reason very well, they're better off starting out with a basis of skepticism than with a basis of open mindedness. I think of it this way: if more people were even as overly skeptical as Penn and Teller; they'd not have joined CofS. As we know, with involvement in CofS, you don't just lose some money and time doing courses and auditing- people have lost really good jobs, homes and families. Even their health. It's just not worth it.
 
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Free Being Me

Crusader
BBC - Future -Hypnosis: The day my mind was 'possessed' (Full article at link)
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140702-why-i-asked-to-be-possessed
Scientists are using hypnosis to understand why some people believe they’re inhabited by paranormal beings. To find out more, David Robson discovered what it’s like to lose his mind


"I am lying on my back and trapped in a gleaming white tunnel, the surface barely six inches from my nose. There is a strange mechanical rumbling in the background, and I hear footsteps padding around the room beyond. In my mounting claustrophobia, I ask myself why I am here – but there is no way out now. A few moments later, the light dims, and as the man speaks, my thoughts begin to fade.

“The engineer has developed a way of taking control of your thoughts from the inside. He does this because he is fascinated by mind control, and wants to apply the most direct method of controlling your thoughts. He is doing this to advance his research into mind control. You will soon be aware of the engineer inserting his thoughts.”

A strange serenity descends as I realise that soon, my will won’t be my own. Then the experiment begins. I am about to be possessed.

The man who will soon take control of my thoughts is Eamonn Walsh, a psychologist who uses hypnosis to investigate psychoses at the Institute of Psychiatry in London. The idea is to turn healthy subjects into ‘virtual patients’ suffering full-on delusions, such as being possessed by a paranormal entity, allowing the scientists to understand the underlying illness in a new way, and potentially find treatments.

The scientists are understandably keen to distance themselves from stage hypnotists. “It’s not flaky, it’s not for entertainment – we’ve got carefully specific research goals,” says Mitul Mehta, who collaborates with Walsh on these studies. It’s a bold idea, but can it possibly work? And what does it feel like to lose total control of your mind?"
 

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Note I have a new thread in which I've attempted to clarify and prove my assertion that study tech is mind control with a lot more info and I hope much clearer explanation on the barriers to study and how to handle them !
It's at the link at the bottom of my signature and I implore anyone who reads this, whether you agree or not to read this ! Thanks:thumbsup:
 
This has to be one of the most fascinating things I've read in a long time. I'm a long time amateur student of psychology and pathology (married to a multi year scn .... go figure .....) which is not to say I'm at expert at anything. I just find it incredibly intriguing.

MB - thank you for your kind words. I will read those resources. I've been familiar with Hassan's work for a long time in a non-scn field, actually. I keep meaning to pull it out again and re-read it with this topic in mind.

It just seems to me..... if we understand the patterns that are used to induce dissonance, confusion, and mind control....... then there must be techniques family members can use to gently poke through the bubble. For example, when I recognize scientoleogese I always ask for clarification in real words. "I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean by [fill in the blank] can you expand on that?"

It's possible that occasionally my native bluntness comes out. The other day we were talking about something that happened in our neighborhood and M/rs Blanky said, "well something can be done about it!" To which I blurted back, "That's a totally not helpful platitude." Then we had to word clear platitude......

S/he was cranky about that for hours.[/FONT]:angel:

Aw...Blanky...my heart goes out to you! :hug:

I have found this information to be useful in helping others in their efforts at "deprogramming":

How To Deprogram Your Own Mind
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-deprogram.html
 

Cat Daddy

Silver Meritorious Patron
Scientology Video: What is Scientology

Scientology Video: What is Scientology

[video=youtube;PP376qIWyyg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP376qIWyyg[/video]

[video=youtube;_JY1pLFIsek]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JY1pLFIsek[/video]
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
Thanks Mockingbird and others for these dazzlingly brilliant illuminations upon the core issues that lead to our collective entrapment. Keep this thread going!:thumbsup:
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
Re: Scientology Video: What is Scientology

Scientology Video: What is Scientology

[video=youtube;PP376qIWyyg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP376qIWyyg[/video]

[video=youtube;_JY1pLFIsek]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JY1pLFIsek[/video]

So lrh says that you run 8-c on a hypnotized person in order to awaken them to KNOW THEY ARE BEING OTHER DETERMINED - But isn't other determined the same as hypnotized? So either way, when you play lrh's little con here you end up other determined & hypnotized. Best not to have 8-c run on oneself, I did and found it disturbing...
 
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