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The Blessed Story of the Blessed Child

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
There were red-headed Neanderthals, but the mutation that led to their red hair had a different locus from the one in Homo Saps that leads to red hair. We have about 4% Neanderthal genes, but this ain't one of them.

I was really making the point about absorbing data without remembering it's source, it means you can't look up the original article. I seem to have not remembered all the data. Or maybe we read different articles.

Here's a good program about Neanderthals, but I don't want to derail by discussing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuTUHM37sqI
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
I heard the majority of the European targets/victims were midwives, from a documentary I watched. Something to do with their involvement in the mystique/mystery/magic of life.



I've heard about them too.

One guy I used to work with came from Leeds. He told us his mother would read the papers first before she would got shopping in town to see what teams were playing that day or week. Then she would decide on that basis when she would go shopping to avoid certain mixes of loony footy fan groups.

He also used to quip that the neighbourhood he came from, even the dogs walked in pairs.

Leeds United fans used to have a "hard" rep back in the 70's

I lived on a council estate in Peterborough that had the worst reputation in the city - in all fairness I should say that I actually enjoyed living there for the most part. But it was a place of high unemployment, lot of people on the dole or the dhss. Saturday night entertainment used to be the fights outside the one pub in the middle of the estate at closing time. That boozer was closed permanently when the Old Bill had to break up a fight in the pub on a New Years eve - with tear gas and riot police (still have a faint feeling of pride about that even though I was not there, honest)

had I not grown up there I am pretty sure I would have thought twice before walking through it - even in daylight.

:)
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Sounds like this came from the Russell Miller interview. OK.




Where did Hubbard write the above?




Please cite sources for the above. Where are you getting this?

Thanks.

By the way, there's a lot of content that's far more damning and critical of L. Ron Hubbard than what you've provided, and it's well documented too.

Don't worry about shocking anybody. However, some documentation would be nice. :)

http://www.solitarytrees.net/cowen/misc/auto1.htm
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Leeds United fans used to have a "hard" rep back in the 70's

I lived on a council estate in Peterborough that had the worst reputation in the city - in all fairness I should say that I actually enjoyed living there for the most part. But it was a place of high unemployment, lot of people on the dole or the dhss. Saturday night entertainment used to be the fights outside the one pub in the middle of the estate at closing time. That boozer was closed permanently when the Old Bill had to break up a fight in the pub on a New Years eve - with tear gas and riot police (still have a faint feeling of pride about that even though I was not there, honest)

had I not grown up there I am pretty sure I would have thought twice before walking through it - even in daylight.

:)

I have been informed by someone who was there that, certainly around the Aston Villa grounds, the shops were boarded up on Match days back in the twenties and thirties. But nothing of that links Hubbard with caves or hubble bubble toilet trouble witches and the Scottish play.
 

Lohan2008

Gold Meritorious Patron
Can I ask members not to derail this post/thread.
I would like to read I Whip's account of what s/he remembers about LRH history.

Wicca/Neanderthal discussion can be opened on a new topic. PLEASE !

valuev-halloween-ideas.jpg
 

Veda

Sponsor

Thanks. The quoted paragraph from the 1972 Hubbard mini-auto bio sounded familiar.

-snip-

Hubbard wrote, “My mother was one of those strange beings of her time, an educated woman. Most of the early schooling I received was actually from my mother since we were together a great deal of time, and since I was moved from school to school and often lost out my mother would see to it that I made up what I had missed and far more. She was a thin, handsome woman of the Western pioneer type and temperament. She died in 1959.“

-snip-

For those curious, the Barbara Kaye interview is here. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/barbkaye.htm


This thread may now revert to discussing Neanderthals and football. :)
 

l whip

Patron
This is a very interesting account with a lot of intuitive and logical observations. I'm also fascinated with Hubbard's pathology and how it began in his early life, but only know the most obvious sources. Where did this item below come from? Source?
Rare accounts of early life say his father, Harry, alarmed at his son’s lack of education sent him to various schools where he routinely got expelled for bullying and organizing gangs that stole lunch money and other things.
It seems to me if this is true, that this is evidence of a criminal/sociopathic pathology that was perhaps even inborn. If he's a little kid running around, organizing bullying escapades and had to be kept away from others because of his bad influence. I'd love to hear more about this.Just a note, though, about Hubbard's mom being from the original Salem stock - I am from original Salem stock as well. Right there on the family tree with some artifacts passed down as well. And it's a myth that many people in colonial Salem practiced witchcraft widely. They didn't. They were God-fearing 2nd and 3rd generation American Puritans, in the midst of a period in which fundamentalist thought was in revival. That fundamentalist thought included a paranoiac fear of the devil, fear of black magic, and fear of witches. While witch-hunting had been a movement in Europe throughout the previous century, most of those 'witches' burned or hung were women who were gifted at herbal healing, or who learned to read, or who owned property. There's a huge socio-political aspect to the European witch hunts that has absolutely nothing to do with magic, or magick, or the practice thereof. Many scholars have argued a similar causality to the New England witch hunts which began with the crisis in Salem.There's no way "Salem witchcraft" was passed down to Hub's mom because there WAS no "Salem witchcraft" being practiced. Only Tituba, the West Indian (it is thought) slave was actually 'practicing' witchy-type activities - which would have been mainstream spiritual practice in the world she grew up in. She taught fortune-telling and other 'light' supernatural games to the pre-teen and teen girls in her care, who were the ones who started the hysteria. There have been several scholarly papers now about the convulsions and hallucinations of the girls, which some posit were caused by a virus that infected the rye during that time (and affected many girls and women in such a way.) Whatever caused the original 'outbreak', Tituba didn't confess to witchcraft and start telling her colorful stories until after she suffered days of brutal beatings. The girls were then pressured to tell similar stories, and the lies just kept mushrooming. The Salem witch hysteria then became a way for neighbors in a very repressed, fearful Puritan world to get revenge on other neighbors they'd been resenting for a long time. There were some local politics involved as well. All supported and encouraged by the fundamentalist thought of the time, as preached by Cotton Mather and other religious leaders, who were trying to get the 3rd generation Puritans to return to the more pious way of living that their European grandparents and great grandparents had come to America to practice.Throughout American history as well as European, educated, strong-minded women and women gifted in the healing arts were always the first ones suspected of witchcraft. So in that sense, Hub's mom fits the bill. But unless there's documentation, there's no way she was teaching him her "Salem-style" witchcraft because there wasn't any Salem-style witchcraft to be taught. It makes for great stories, though. Witness last season of American Horror Story.Your conjecture about the backwoods abortion clinic, though, makes far more sense to me. (One of the thing traditional 'witches' and midwives did was help women try and prevent and get out of unwanted pregnancies, with varying results.) The availability of birth control (and by extension, abortion) was one of the top issues on the mind of the early feminists/suffragettes...the idea that women should not have to be ruled by their reproductive functions. So if Mrs. Hubbard was indeed a suffragette, a rebellious educated woman, and a feminist (not to mention a lesbian or bisexual), then it makes sense that she would've supported backwoods abortions. Do you have a source for the Barbara Kaye comment about Hubs' mom being a lesbian? This is all really interesting stuff.
You make valid points and I agree. I said Salem for background filler, not intending to get into the deeper levels; the info is as you say. I would go on to say that fortune telling among the women of Salem was far more widespread than reported, but the men covered their women’s ass, so to speak. One poor girl when cornered got scared and would say anything for the others to leave her alone. But it got started and over time has turned out an asset rather than a liability for Salem. To stand against rigid Puritan ways is now something to be much admired.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Hubbard story has taken on its own mythical proportions in the mind of Scientologists and needs to be urgently deprogrammed. He and the Org he left behind are in denial of the real facts of Hubbard’s life and times. Let’s cut through the bullshit and get down the real role women played. Even his supposedly saintly mother was as sexual as her man but taboo to talk about this. We have now passed through that barrier. As you say control of the women’s reproductive system was the top issue as women themselves tried to correct the raw deal they had in the rough cowboy world of whip it in, whip it, and wipe it. The word of witchcraft needs to be reexamined in the light of what it did for the female practitioners. As I have said science hid within the outer shell of witchcraft to cover up important facts about our well-being. Men have their gifts and women have theirs, same-same but different.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Yes, I have the source on Barbara Kaye and who she was. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/barbkaye.htm If you read through it you will see how everyone is jumping the gun on me. I’m trying to be careful in what I say, but the long overdue truth must come out. Because someone says what they say is the truth is an unreliable means of getting anywhere. Then we are forever locked into an interactive world that has fuzzy edges left behind by others.“Rare accounts of early life say his father, Harry, alarmed at his son’s lack of education sent him to various schools where he routinely got expelled for bullying and organizing gangs that stole lunch money and other things."------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"It seems to me if this is true, that this is evidence of a criminal/sociopathic pathology that was perhaps even inborn. If he's a little kid running around, organizing bullying escapades and had to be kept away from others because of his bad influence. I'd love to hear more about this.”------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------If the official Scientology version of his life is not the truth, then what is? Let’s run this backwards. He routinely reversed the truth and carefully taught others to do the same. A lot of his tech relies upon this mirror effect of the mind that still remains uninvestigated. Whatever they say has to be reversed to get the truth, for they can’t handle it. They officially say he beat up the bullies so the truth has to be he was the bully. Why would he beat up on other kids? Because the little shit enjoyed it so much! Stealing their lunch money? And their lunch - did he ever stop stealing from other people is the real question here. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------They say their wonderboy did ‘lumberjack fighting’ as taught by his grandpa. I didn’t know about that but the official web site says so. A bit of the old Kung Fu, eh? Perhaps he had an Asian friend that showed him a throw or two - and also told him a few Eastern religious stories that he spouted later, like being the Buddha, being a spirit, reincarnation, being released from the wheel of suffering and all the sorts of things that got lost along his way.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Why has this thing stopped putting paragraph breaks?
 
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l whip

Patron
I wanted to ask some advice here. Should I start a new thread for the adult warlock Hubbard or should I mix it up with the tell all stories of his childhood? I have hopefully shown there is more than what meets the eye in the multi-structured stories about him. If the idea is deception then we have been royally deceived about his childhood. We all know about his later deceptions or do we? This authority says this and that authority says that, but what is your idea? Some say they fell in love with his promises and joined, fell out of love and left. If only it was that easy! We have had our trials and tribulations along the way, let's not fall in love with the idea of simply being an ex. There is nothing so ex as an ex. We have to build up a whole set of new data somehow in a world that seems to have no answers. Perhaps to question is the answer. He set us off in the wrong direction, so we have to understand more about the way he followed the wrong directions himself and make sure that mindset is purged from ourselves. I promise further controversy.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
I wanted to ask some advice here. Should I start a new thread for the adult warlock Hubbard or should I mix it up with the tell all stories of his childhood? I have hopefully shown there is more than what meets the eye in the multi-structured stories about him. If the idea is deception then we have been royally deceived about his childhood. We all know about his later deceptions or do we? This authority says this and that authority says that, but what is your idea? Some say they fell in love with his promises and joined, fell out of love and left. If only it was that easy! We have had our trials and tribulations along the way, let's not fall in love with the idea of simply being an ex. There is nothing so ex as an ex. We have to build up a whole set of new data somehow in a world that seems to have no answers. Perhaps to question is the answer. He set us off in the wrong direction, so we have to understand more about the way he followed the wrong directions himself and make sure that mindset is purged from ourselves. I promise further controversy.

Yes.
 
This is some of what "Barbara" actually said about Ron according to that above interview (contrary to what IWHIP is extrapolating from this and stating as truth):

"The affair began when he took me home from the office one night and kissed me goodnight in the car. That's how it all started. Took me some time to realize he was disturbed. He was highly paranoid and would be rushing along the street with me and I would say, "Why are you walking so fast?" He'd look over his shoulder and say, "Don't you know what it's like to be a target?"

At all times he thought the American Psychological Association and the AMA and CIA had hit men after him... he thought everyone was after him. This was long before the IRS was after him. No one was after him at that time, but he certainly had delusions.


When I went to work for him he had hired somebody who had been in the police department. He gave everyone who worked for him a lie detector test asking if he had designs on his life. I had to take it. The man who was giving the test always had a little bit of fun and asked the women - the last question was, "Are you a virgin?"

The first time I made a clinical diagnosis of Ron was when I was with him in there. He had a house on Mel Avenue. He asked me to come there and he was in a deep depression. There was no doubt in my mind he was a manic depressive with paranoid tendencies. Many manics are delightful, apparently productive, they do all kinds of marvelous things and have tremendous self confidence and talk and talk and talk, really hyper. He was like that in his manic stage - he was enormously productive and creative, he had big feelings of omnipotence, he talked all the time of grandiose schemes. It was extremely interesting in his case because he made his fantasies come true.

He said he always wanted to found a religion like Moses or Jesus.


...snip...

This was during the peak of his success with Dianetics in 1950. This all took place in 1950-51. I started doing a lot of administrative things, arranging things. We had lots of conversations, he'd ask me for advice about this and that. Sometimes I worked late and he took me home - I was living with my parents at the time - and one thing led to another.

I was also hiring people, I hired a secretary for him.

He interviewed me for the job. I had read about him, had read about Dianetics. At that time I had been through university with a major in psychology - he bounced ideas off me because he had no background whatsoever in psychology. He told me that before he wrote Dianetics, because he had no background in psychology, he went to the University of Chicago library and asked for the latest book on psychology and read this book - that was the only thing he had ever read on the subject.

...snip...

"I had been reading Freud since I was 12 and he would bounce ideas off me in kitchen, we'd talk until 3 in the morning. He got very excited and enthused about what he was doing, very enthusiastic again and began working. This was before the Alexis incident.

In LA he lived in Western Ave area around Wilton. I found the house for him on N Curzon for him and his wife and baby.

I don't know where he was living when I first started working for him. He didn't talk about Sara at all, I don't know what was happening with the marriage. I spent a weekend with him in some motel at Malibu and on the way back in to LA he stopped to buy a bouquet of flowers for his wife. He said she had said to him, because he was feeling down in the dumps, "Why don't you go and spend the weekend with a pretty girl?"

He told me how he met Sara - I never knew what to believe. He said he went to a party and got drunk and when he woke up in the morning he found Sara was in bed with him.

I accompanied him on a lecture tour in San Francisco and we were at the home of an attorney doing some legal work for Ron, and someone's wife at the party enticed him into the kitchen, and I came upon them in the kitchen in an embrace. He was a womanizer. Every attractive woman was fair game to him.

Some of things he told me were really bizarre, I didn't believe half of them. I believe the engrams he was running were 90% fantasy. He told me his mother was a lesbian and he had found her in bed with another woman, that he was an attempted abortion - he was running all these engrams but I attributed them to his paranoia.

I didn't think he had ever done much research except for reading this book on psychology. He read a German journal in which an engram was mentioned in 1916-17, he knew that someone had written about an engram. Joseph Wolpie came up with idea that repetition was an effective way of reducing tension on heavily charged incident. Desensitisation was what Ron was doing in Dianetics without knowing he was doing it. I think he stumbled across the material by accident and intuition.

He wasn't widely read - he made no bones about it. He had a wild imagination, he was tremendously creative person.

My feeling was that he got a medical discharge from the Navy and I think it was because they knew he was crazy. I think they tried to give him electric shock in the hospital because he had very strong feelings against that treatment and I felt it had a personal reference. He must have been recognised at one time as a disturbed individual.

I think he probably made up a lot of the case histories in the first Dianetics book. He was not academic and never did any research.

I was very infatuated with him and I said to my room mate - we had an apartment in Beverly Hills - "If I ever tell you I am marrying this guy, I want you to tie me up and not let me out the door, because he's a lunatic." But I didn't trust myself, because I was so enchanted by him I felt I would go ahead and do it. He was very magical, delightful fascinating man. He talked all the time and was interesting, a great raconteur, very bright, amusing and dynamic.

...snip...

I lost track of Ron when everything went into a shambles and there was this bad publicity in newspaper about Alexis when he took off. He had gone home and found Miles in bed with his wife and that's when he took Alexis; he thought he was perfectly justified to do this. He said they were going to try and put him into a mental institution, he was afraid they were going to commit him.

When he took off I only knew what I read in the newspaper. The next time I heard from him was Wichita when he was living with this oil baron [Don Purcell]. He started writing me and wanted me to come there. I went there and he was like Howard Hughes' last days, really in a bad depression. His fingernails were long and curved, his hair was stringy. He met at the hotel and was in such bad shape, he was trembling, like someone who should be in a mental institution. I knew then... he wanted me to marry him, he'd bought me a ring but I knew then he was such a deeply disturbed man it could never be and I left the very next day. "
 
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I wanted to ask some advice here. Should I start a new thread for the adult warlock Hubbard or should I mix it up with the tell all stories of his childhood? I have hopefully shown there is more than what meets the eye in the multi-structured stories about him. If the idea is deception then we have been royally deceived about his childhood. We all know about his later deceptions or do we? This authority says this and that authority says that, but what is your idea? Some say they fell in love with his promises and joined, fell out of love and left. If only it was that easy! We have had our trials and tribulations along the way, let's not fall in love with the idea of simply being an ex. There is nothing so ex as an ex. We have to build up a whole set of new data somehow in a world that seems to have no answers. Perhaps to question is the answer. He set us off in the wrong direction, so we have to understand more about the way he followed the wrong directions himself and make sure that mindset is purged from ourselves. I promise further controversy.

Before you do that, please read this thread in it's entirely...including the links to other websites and the articles, etc.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?24303-Walpurgisnacht-Witches-Night-Origins-of-Scientology

Then do, by all means, start your discussion thread.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
This is some of what "Barbara" actually said about Ron according to that above interview (contrary to what IWHIP is extrapolating from this and stating as truth):

"The affair began when he took me home from the office one night and kissed me goodnight in the car. That's how it all started. Took me some time to realize he was disturbed. He was highly paranoid and would be rushing along the street with me and I would say, "Why are you walking so fast?" He'd look over his shoulder and say, "Don't you know what it's like to be a target?"

At all times he thought the American Psychological Association and the AMA and CIA had hit men after him... he thought everyone was after him. This was long before the IRS was after him. No one was after him at that time, but he certainly had delusions.


When I went to work for him he had hired somebody who had been in the police department. He gave everyone who worked for him a lie detector test asking if he had designs on his life. I had to take it. The man who was giving the test always had a little bit of fun and asked the women - the last question was, "Are you a virgin?"

The first time I made a clinical diagnosis of Ron was when I was with him in there. He had a house on Mel Avenue. He asked me to come there and he was in a deep depression. There was no doubt in my mind he was a manic depressive with paranoid tendencies. Many manics are delightful, apparently productive, they do all kinds of marvelous things and have tremendous self confidence and talk and talk and talk, really hyper. He was like that in his manic stage - he was enormously productive and creative, he had big feelings of omnipotence, he talked all the time of grandiose schemes. It was extremely interesting in his case because he made his fantasies come true.

He said he always wanted to found a religion like Moses or Jesus.


...snip...

This was during the peak of his success with Dianetics in 1950. This all took place in 1950-51. I started doing a lot of administrative things, arranging things. We had lots of conversations, he'd ask me for advice about this and that. Sometimes I worked late and he took me home - I was living with my parents at the time - and one thing led to another.

I was also hiring people, I hired a secretary for him.

He interviewed me for the job. I had read about him, had read about Dianetics. At that time I had been through university with a major in psychology - he bounced ideas off me because he had no background whatsoever in psychology. He told me that before he wrote Dianetics, because he had no background in psychology, he went to the University of Chicago library and asked for the latest book on psychology and read this book - that was the only thing he had ever read on the subject.

...snip...

"I had been reading Freud since I was 12 and he would bounce ideas off me in kitchen, we'd talk until 3 in the morning. He got very excited and enthused about what he was doing, very enthusiastic again and began working. This was before the Alexis incident.

In LA he lived in Western Ave area around Wilton. I found the house for him on N Curzon for him and his wife and baby.

I don't know where he was living when I first started working for him. He didn't talk about Sara at all, I don't know what was happening with the marriage. I spent a weekend with him in some motel at Malibu and on the way back in to LA he stopped to buy a bouquet of flowers for his wife. He said she had said to him, because he was feeling down in the dumps, "Why don't you go and spend the weekend with a pretty girl?"

He told me how he met Sara - I never knew what to believe. He said he went to a party and got drunk and when he woke up in the morning he found Sara was in bed with him.

I accompanied him on a lecture tour in San Francisco and we were at the home of an attorney doing some legal work for Ron, and someone's wife at the party enticed him into the kitchen, and I came upon them in the kitchen in an embrace. He was a womanizer. Every attractive woman was fair game to him.

Some of things he told me were really bizarre, I didn't believe half of them. I believe the engrams he was running were 90% fantasy. He told me his mother was a lesbian and he had found her in bed with another woman, that he was an attempted abortion - he was running all these engrams but I attributed them to his paranoia.

I didn't think he had ever done much research except for reading this book on psychology. He read a German journal in which an engram was mentioned in 1916-17, he knew that someone had written about an engram. Joseph Wolpie came up with idea that repetition was an effective way of reducing tension on heavily charged incident. Desensitisation was what Ron was doing in Dianetics without knowing he was doing it. I think he stumbled across the material by accident and intuition.

He wasn't widely read - he made no bones about it. He had a wild imagination, he was tremendously creative person.

My feeling was that he got a medical discharge from the Navy and I think it was because they knew he was crazy. I think they tried to give him electric shock in the hospital because he had very strong feelings against that treatment and I felt it had a personal reference. He must have been recognised at one time as a disturbed individual.

I think he probably made up a lot of the case histories in the first Dianetics book. He was not academic and never did any research.

I was very infatuated with him and I said to my room mate - we had an apartment in Beverly Hills - "If I ever tell you I am marrying this guy, I want you to tie me up and not let me out the door, because he's a lunatic." But I didn't trust myself, because I was so enchanted by him I felt I would go ahead and do it. He was very magical, delightful fascinating man. He talked all the time and was interesting, a great raconteur, very bright, amusing and dynamic.

...snip...

I lost track of Ron when everything went into a shambles and there was this bad publicity in newspaper about Alexis when he took off. He had gone home and found Miles in bed with his wife and that's when he took Alexis; he thought he was perfectly justified to do this. He said they were going to try and put him into a mental institution, he was afraid they were going to commit him.

When he took off I only knew what I read in the newspaper. The next time I heard from him was Wichita when he was living with this oil baron [Don Purcell]. He started writing me and wanted me to come there. I went there and he was like Howard Hughes' last days, really in a bad depression. His fingernails were long and curved, his hair was stringy. He met at the hotel and was in such bad shape, he was trembling, like someone who should be in a mental institution. I knew then... he wanted me to marry him, he'd bought me a ring but I knew then he was such a deeply disturbed man it could never be and I left the very next day. "

Many thanks for the quotes, it verifies that there is a source to what has been said, at least some of it. We just need the Wiccan thing.
 
Never heard of any link to the occult and Ron's Mom, or Dad. Or anyone else in his family.

I think best sources might be what Nibs said about his Dad's obsession with practicing OTO style Magik (which seems WAY off traditional pagan or Wiccan traditional practice of the craft that I am aware of, which is NOT Satanism) in recorded interviews.

Also what some of his fellow travelers might have shared about his practicing Magik, like the Moonchild Ceremony with Jack Parsons and Marjorie Cameron: http://dillsnapcogitation.wordpress.com/2008/10/22/babalon-working-jack-parsons-and-the-moonchild/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babalon_Working

http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/bfm/bfm07.htm

I think one of the Nib's audio interviews is on youtube. Sorry, I'm, too tired to hunt for it now, but I seem to remember he says his Dad was fairly obsessed with OTO from his teens on. I remember Ron quoting/referring to Crowleys (pronounced CROW el-lee, by the way!:coolwink:) The Book of the Law somewhere, too.

Oh LOL, the Neanderthals again! Anything to feel special! :eyeroll:

From: http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/bfm/bfm07.htm

"One afternoon in August 1945, Lou Goldstone, a well-known science-fiction illustrator and a frequent visitor to South Orange Grove Avenue, turned up with L. Ron Hubbard, who was then on leave from the Navy. Jack Parsons liked Ron immediately, perhaps recognized in him a kindred spirit, and invited him to move in for the duration of his leave.

Ron, ebullient as always, was not in any way intimidated by the egregious company and surroundings; on the contrary, he felt instantly at home. Most evenings he could be found dominating the conversation at the big table in the kitchen, where the roomers tended to gather, telling outrageous stories about his adventures. One night he unbuttoned his shirt to display the scars left by arrows hurled at him when he encountered a band of hostile aborigines in the South American jungle.

Like almost everyone in the house, Alva Rogers thought Hubbard was an enormously engaging and entertaining personality. Rogers also had red hair and Ron confided to him his belief, confirmed by extensive research he had undertaken at the 'Royal Museum' in London, that all redheads were related, being descended from the same line of Neanderthal man. 'Needless to say,' Rogers recalled, 'I was fascinated.'

Too tired and sleepy...maybe more later. :)
 

l whip

Patron
How can there be a ‘Wiccan thing’ with the Hubbard family? Wicca came about in 1954 under Martin Gardner, Hubbard was born in 1911. Sigh…what I said that his mother, Lenora, had an interest in witchcraft and so did many other women of the age she lived in. This practice was a mixture of many things before getting more organized and modern minded under Gardner. She was an intelligent woman and like I have said a desperate housewife, looking for ways to express her inner woman. Every one of us, man or woman, was searching for inner answers or we wouldn’t be ex-sintos. Look to yourself and ask did your childhood have any part to play in the way you turned out?

Where Hubbard got his knowledge of magic is the question that hangs him by his own petard. I’m saying he got it from the cradle, there is no other answer and is a waste of time to look anywhere else or keep on about some other answer. There is no other answer! If you have one then tell us right now, in triplicate!

The most reliable reference is his extraordinary knowledge of magic. According to some he knew the black mass. That would make him a Catholic and with a working knowledge of Latin. I couldn’t even begin to recite the thing for I don’t know a word of it. Hubbard was one of the best witches around according to evidence that I cannot give right now. A virus in my computer that has destroyed a lot of my work and I’m pissed off about it right now.
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

“Rare accounts of early life say his father, Harry, alarmed at his son’s lack of education sent him to various schools where he routinely got expelled for bullying and organizing gangs that stole lunch money and other things."

Please cite these rare accounts.

Thanks.
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks IWhip - for posting the information you have about El Con Hubbard and his childhood.

What information you have provided makes perfect sense (to me) for the "MAKING OF A MADMAN"!!

Lesbian mother!
Abortion Services!

Hubbard was a complete and utter nutjob - a crazed psycho-sociopath that had no value for human life.

Just look at Scientology and there you have it. Human beings are to be used and abused to keep the con alive! Sea Org abortions are the right thing in order to "save the planet". No value of family (just pretended among the few members that stay married and somehow keep their family - IN) It is expected in the cult of Scientology to be willing, at any time, to throw your family and friends under the bus if they disagree with COB or management about the criminal activities done daily to keep the "show on the road"!!

It makes me feel sad for those still trapped in the cult!! :bigcry:They are so fucked!

Continue!
 

Veda

Sponsor
Thanks IWhip - for posting the information you have about El Con Hubbard and his childhood.

What information you have provided makes perfect sense (to me) for the "MAKING OF A MADMAN"!!

Lesbian mother!

First off (good lord), lesbian mothers do not necessarily make madmen.

All we know is that Hubbard told Barbara Kaye that his mother was a lesbian.

Kaye:

"Some of the things he [Hubbard] told me were really bizarre. I believe the engrams he was running were 90% fantasy. I don't believe half of them. He told me his mother was a lesbian and he had found her in bed with another woman, that he was an attempted abortion. He was running all these engrams but I attributed them to paranoia."

Abortion Services!

-snip-

As for his mother being a abortionist witch, that, apparently, is something I whip invented.

Continue!

Are you making an effort to discern between fact/statements by credible witnesses/documentation, and conjecture/clairvoyant 'second sight'/and fiction?

With someone such as I whip - who appears to be a kind of troll, who mixes fact and fiction, and who, by his own description, has a fact/fiction mix ready to go, if he can just find a sufficiently impressionable audience - it's necessary to engage in the time consuming activity of parsing (breaking apart and examining), any information presented.

Otherwise, it grandly craps up the data base if enough of it accumulates.
 

secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
Having read this thread in its entirety, I am impressed most of all by the desire of many to defend Hubbard or, failing that, to fall back on a demand for detailed documentation. This is not a court of law. Hubbard is not a figure of fiction. No-one needs to invent this stuff.

It is more irrational to reject statements that fit the picture because they were so bizarre people thought he was making it up.

It seems clear that there are dox, some more and some less reliable, for almost everything claimed by OP, and we still have untapped sources notably Nibs.

One thing that seems relevant is Hubbard's application to the vet medical service for a continuation of psychiatric treatment in 1945.
 
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