The Catcher in the Rye.

Moonchild

Patron with Honors
I imagine this must have been mentioned previously, but here goes anyway.

Written by J.D.Salinger, my take on it is that it's a character-study (written in the the first person) of a dysfunctional teenager living in post-war/early 50s New York.

The central character "Holden Caulfield" , through whose eyes the story unfolds, seems to be unable to relate to the rest of the world around him; he regards other people with different viewpoints as "phoneys" (sic).

From one point of view, he can be described as unable to create a "personality" for himself.....by "personality" I mean the construct whereby an individual achieves social intercourse with others.

And from another, he could be considered to be "stuck" in his own valence.

As it happens, I believe Salinger had some brief involvement with Scn.

Would appreciate any comments from others here that have read it.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
I sometimes see phenomena that LRH talked about, in some book or tv show or movie. Even a cartoon once. I think that some of those writers probably did do some Scn reading or courses. Dunno 'bout J D Salinger, though. I loved his books.
 

Moonchild

Patron with Honors
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe "The Catcher in the Rye" pre-dated Salinger's involvement with Scn....in fact, pre-dated Scn altogether. I accept that the wording of my post created ambiguity....mea culpa.

I wasn't implying that the "Catcher" came about as a result of contact with LRH/Scn, but rather that Salinger made an astute observation of how a neurotic mind works...to his immense credit...and perhaps later on he found some resonance with LRH's ideas about the same; hence perhaps whatever involvement he (Salinger) may have had with Scn.
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
I remembered something about this book in my explorations into mind control and googled the title and the word "trigger" and found this bit:

In the biography, In Search of J. D. Salinger by Ian Hamilton, Salinger’s association with U.S. Intelligence is uncovered.
J. D. Salinger's classic novel The Catcher in the Rye may have been used as a “mechanism of control” in the murder of John Lennon, and the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan. If you remember, The Catcher in the Rye was found in the possession of both Hinkley and Chapman after their respective crimes. In fact, prior to the New York City police's arrest of Chapman, he was found sitting against the Dakota Building, glazed over and zombie-like, reading Salinger’s book.

That is not to say that Salinger wrote Catcher deliberately for that purpose. But it is possible that it has been used as a triggering device. [A triggering device sets off a post-hypnotic suggestion, unleashing within its mind-controlled subjects the directive to kill].



According to Hamilton’s biography, Defense Intelligence used the services of Salinger during World War II within the Counter Intelligence Corps (CIC). His time was spent mainly in the interrogation of captured Nazis. Later on, toward the end of the war, Salinger was involved in the denazification of Germany. Denazification could be taken to mean a code word suggestive of the importation of high-level Nazi spies into the highest ranks of the American Intelligence Community under the sponsorship of Project Paperclip, the top secret operation, which at the war’s end, smuggled hundreds of Nazis out of Germany. These “reformed” Nazis were then given new identities, in time forming the core of the new U.S. intelligence, defense and aerospace establishments.

According to the late conspiracy researcher Mae Brussell, it was this American/Nazi association that reformed the old Office of Strategic Services (OSS) into its new and improved Nazi-ised version: the Central Intelligence Agency. Perhaps, in this occurrence, Re-nazification would have been a more appropriate term. From this point of reference, it would be far-fetched to think that Salinger was part of this nefarious plot; and going even further to suggest that under the auspices of this new American/Nazi Intelligence regime he wrote The Catcher in the Rye as a “mechanism of control” to be employed in CIA mind-control experiments such as Project Artichoke and MK-Ultra.

The Catcher in the Rye has been used as a “mechanism of control” in the same way the music of The Beatles was perhaps used to not only program Mark David Chapman, but the malevolent Manson clan, as well. According to Vincent Bugliosi in his best seller Helter Skelter, the Manson clan used off the wall interpretations of Beatles songs to lead them on their killing spree through the Hollywood Hills in the summer of 1969. Moreover, according to Mae Brussell and other researchers, the Manson Family was nothing less than a full blown CIA Mind Control experiment designed to cast in a bad light, the whole counterculture movement of the late ‘60s.



Admittedly, these are vague connections, nevertheless, areas that need to be explored in depth, especially when one considers the number of Nazis introduced into the U.S. Intelligence Community, and the subsequent conception of mind control programs redolent of Nazi inspiration and influence. Mind control programming seems to repeatedly rear its repulsive head where major political assassinations have occurred. When these similar patterns turn up time and again, we are forced to ask ourselves if these are merely coincidence, or planned procedures carried out to achieve a specific agenda.

Under further speculation, not only can these “mechanisms of control” be used in programming minds to kill political leaders and activists, they can also be used as a method to damage the reputation of the likes of Salinger or The Beatles by demonstrating to the world at large that such works of art (The Catcher in the Rye and The White Album) are dangerous to the minds of our country’s youth, supposedly compelling them to madness and murder.
[end quote]

I don't know about the truth of any of this, but it's interesting anyway.
 

Good twin

Floater
My first husband loved that book. God, I hope he doesn't have a back yard full of dead bodies. :nervous: He was the "quiet" type. Ya' know? Geez, I'll be havin nightmares tonight.
 

Lemuria

Patron with Honors
In the biography, In Search of J. D. Salinger by Ian Hamilton, Salinger’s association with U.S. Intelligence is uncovered.
J. D. Salinger's classic novel The Catcher in the Rye may have been used as a “mechanism of control” in the murder of John Lennon, and the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan. If you remember, The Catcher in the Rye was found in the possession of both Hinkley and Chapman after their respective crimes. In fact, prior to the New York City police's arrest of Chapman, he was found sitting against the Dakota Building, glazed over and zombie-like, reading Salinger’s book.

That is not to say that Salinger wrote Catcher deliberately for that purpose. But it is possible that it has been used as a triggering device. [A triggering device sets off a post-hypnotic suggestion, unleashing within its mind-controlled subjects the directive to kill].



According to Hamilton’s biography, Defense Intelligence used the services of Salinger during World War II within the Counter Intelligence Corps (CIC). His time was spent mainly in the interrogation of captured Nazis. Later on, toward the end of the war, Salinger was involved in the denazification of Germany. Denazification could be taken to mean a code word suggestive of the importation of high-level Nazi spies into the highest ranks of the American Intelligence Community under the sponsorship of Project Paperclip, the top secret operation, which at the war’s end, smuggled hundreds of Nazis out of Germany. These “reformed” Nazis were then given new identities, in time forming the core of the new U.S. intelligence, defense and aerospace establishments.

According to the late conspiracy researcher Mae Brussell, it was this American/Nazi association that reformed the old Office of Strategic Services (OSS) into its new and improved Nazi-ised version: the Central Intelligence Agency. Perhaps, in this occurrence, Re-nazification would have been a more appropriate term. From this point of reference, it would be far-fetched to think that Salinger was part of this nefarious plot; and going even further to suggest that under the auspices of this new American/Nazi Intelligence regime he wrote The Catcher in the Rye as a “mechanism of control” to be employed in CIA mind-control experiments such as Project Artichoke and MK-Ultra.

The Catcher in the Rye has been used as a “mechanism of control” in the same way the music of The Beatles was perhaps used to not only program Mark David Chapman, but the malevolent Manson clan, as well. According to Vincent Bugliosi in his best seller Helter Skelter, the Manson clan used off the wall interpretations of Beatles songs to lead them on their killing spree through the Hollywood Hills in the summer of 1969. Moreover, according to Mae Brussell and other researchers, the Manson Family was nothing less than a full blown CIA Mind Control experiment designed to cast in a bad light, the whole counterculture movement of the late ‘60s.



Admittedly, these are vague connections, nevertheless, areas that need to be explored in depth, especially when one considers the number of Nazis introduced into the U.S. Intelligence Community, and the subsequent conception of mind control programs redolent of Nazi inspiration and influence. Mind control programming seems to repeatedly rear its repulsive head where major political assassinations have occurred. When these similar patterns turn up time and again, we are forced to ask ourselves if these are merely coincidence, or planned procedures carried out to achieve a specific agenda.

Under further speculation, not only can these “mechanisms of control” be used in programming minds to kill political leaders and activists, they can also be used as a method to damage the reputation of the likes of Salinger or The Beatles by demonstrating to the world at large that such works of art (The Catcher in the Rye and The White Album) are dangerous to the minds of our country’s youth, supposedly compelling them to madness and murder.
[end quote]

I don't know about the truth of any of this, but it's interesting anyway.
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That stuff is interesting. Too bad some people look the other way. Its exactly what those guys , up there, want us to do.
 

Moonchild

Patron with Honors
Hmmmm.......actually I was just talking about the book.

I've read it through a couple of times, and don't feel particularly motivated to hack anyone to bits.

Perhaps I'm just weird.
 

Pliny Younger

Patron with Honors
Christ, you're making me want to get this book.

Not that I want to be triggerd. I'm probably safe, I tend to buy books, then I don't read them. :)
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
I imagine this must have been mentioned previously, but here goes anyway.

Written by J.D.Salinger, my take on it is that it's a character-study (written in the the first person) of a dysfunctional teenager living in post-war/early 50s New York.

The central character "Holden Caulfield" , through whose eyes the story unfolds, seems to be unable to relate to the rest of the world around him; he regards other people with different viewpoints as "phoneys" (sic).

From one point of view, he can be described as unable to create a "personality" for himself.....by "personality" I mean the construct whereby an individual achieves social intercourse with others.

And from another, he could be considered to be "stuck" in his own valence.

As it happens, I believe Salinger had some brief involvement with Scn.

Would appreciate any comments from others here that have read it.
I loved that book in high school. That, and "A Separate Peace", whose author I forget. I don't recall much, beyond that he had a sister he loved to pieces named Phoebe, and he hired hookers just to talk to them. I do remember that he thought everyone was phoney's. I don't necessarily see him being stuck in his own valence, nor do I see his assessment of others being phoneys as being wrong (although not all the time). The Bard said it best "All the world's a stage, and we are merely players". Looks like he saw through an act that meant a lot to him, and now is stuck with a question of why any action is valuable, any role special, etc. This is just an issue we all confront (or fail to), as we develop. What I liked about that book is that he was a kid with the courage of his convictions, curiosity, and a willingness to confront things that many people duck through distractions.
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hmmmm.......actually I was just talking about the book.

I've read it through a couple of times, and don't feel particularly motivated to hack anyone to bits.

Perhaps I'm just weird.
Watch "Conspiracy Theory" with Mel Gibson and Patrick Stewart, and leading lady Julia Roberts. Explore the beauty of the Catcher in the Rye conspiracy theory. The connection is never really fully developed. Of course, if deep hypnosis actually works, and people can be implanted with triggers to perform specific deads (MK-Ultra), then any book could be used as a trigger, I suppose, but more typically there would be a vocal cue of some kind, rather than a reliance on a person reading the book.

I really liked Conspiracy Theory, although the ending was incredibly hoaky.
 

Lemuria

Patron with Honors
Awww man, my brother let me have " A Seperate Piece" I don't know when that books was written because the one he gave me was decaying before my eyes. It was so fragile and crepe brown. I never read it. But having read Catcher in the Rye, I imagined it would be somewhat similar, because of the summary about it, sounded much like other one.
 

Neo

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hmmmm.......actually I was just talking about the book.

I've read it through a couple of times, and don't feel particularly motivated to hack anyone to bits.

Perhaps I'm just weird.

Perhaps you are, Moonchild.

Reread one more time, and wait for the signal. Meanwhile I'll have a word to my seniors :whistling:
 

Moonchild

Patron with Honors
I loved that book in high school. That, and "A Separate Peace", whose author I forget. I don't recall much, beyond that he had a sister he loved to pieces named Phoebe, and he hired hookers just to talk to them. I do remember that he thought everyone was phoney's. I don't necessarily see him being stuck in his own valence, nor do I see his assessment of others being phoneys as being wrong (although not all the time). The Bard said it best "All the world's a stage, and we are merely players". Looks like he saw through an act that meant a lot to him, and now is stuck with a question of why any action is valuable, any role special, etc. This is just an issue we all confront (or fail to), as we develop. What I liked about that book is that he was a kid with the courage of his convictions, curiosity, and a willingness to confront things that many people duck through distractions.


Thank you for your reply Kevin.

I read this book some years ago (after my time in Scn) and I accept I may have been guilty of "pigeon-holing".... i.e., forcing Caulfield into a Scn-defined category.

Your observations have exposed other available perspectives. :thumbsup:
 

Moonchild

Patron with Honors
Perhaps you are, Moonchild.

Reread one more time, and wait for the signal. Meanwhile I'll have a word to my seniors :whistling:


:dieslaughing: Yeah, OK!!! That's alright then; just for a moment there I thought I might be "normal" or something....:omg:
 

at3ist

Patron with Honors
he he he i like that conspiracy theories, did you know manson was a scietologist, so maybe scientology is the MK ultra experiment, thats why its legal, we already know that hubbard use to writte to CIA and FBI
 

Moonchild

Patron with Honors
he he he i like that conspiracy theories, did you know manson was a scietologist, so maybe scientology is the MK ultra experiment, thats why its legal, we already know that hubbard use to writte to CIA and FBI


Yes, and an FBI agent said of Hubbard: "appears mental".

A master of understatement IMHO.
 
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