The Catholic Church has TAKEN THE GLOVES OFF!!!!!

ARC

Patron
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Stories from Catholic Online do, however, sometimes get mentioned by official publications and websites of the Catholic Church.
 

RogerB

Crusader
Too Delicious!!

This is just too delicious!!

It will be interesting how the cult responds . . . if they've got the balls to try it.

I remember in East Grinstead, long ago, they applied "standard tech" to all those SP local businesses and shop keepers et al who disapproved of the culties' behavior and attempts to recruit everything in sight.

Well, you know the "tech" to handle such SPs . . . DECLARE them! Yep!

The culties are lucky the locals didn't take to and burn St. Hill to the ground . . . there was much guffawing and outrage in the indignant best of British sense, and eventually the culties had to recant in order to get anything done or even to get service in shops:duh:

Howzzat for an example of their "First Rule" of maintaining friendly relations with the environment!!:duh::duh:

Rog
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Howzzat for an example of their "First Rule" of maintaining friendly relations with the environment!!:duh::duh:

Rog

Imagine if Scientology placed THAT as the TOP PRIORITY RULE?

"maintaining friendly relations with the environment"

And, also, forced ALL OTHER policies to align and fall into place with THAT key basic rule.

What a different world it would be for Scientology!!!! :thumbsup:

Of course, taking THAT approach, things like these would have to disappear:

disconnection
SP declares
noisy investigations
rabid PR
Tommy Davis
David Miscavige
overwhelming lawsuits
fair game
hard sell
crush regging

But really, who is kidding who? A basic idea within the ream of Hubbardian ideas is for the individual or group to MAKE THE ENVIRONMENT CONFORM TO THEM. Who cares whether the environment reacts negatively - just CHANGE it using the wonders of Scientology "tech"! :confused2: (sarcasm)

Once changed and controlled along Scio-think, the environment "should" view anything you do as "friendly". More manipulation using ARC!
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
The Catholic church has its share of skeletons that it would prefer to keep in the closet, just like Cof$. The Catholic church has its own intel dept., it is known as the Jesuit order, and, specifically, there are special units within the Jesuit order ... they actually put OSA to shame. The Catholic church has its share of rituals that may seem whacky, just like Cof$. The Catholic church has excommunication, just as Cof$ has suppressive declares. The Catholic church has some serious real estate holdings, just like Cof$. The Catholic church is a top down structure, with one man at the top, i.e., the Pope, Cof$ has its COB. I could go on and on with comparisons.

UNLIKE Cof$ ... if someone was considering becoming a Catholic ... he would have full disclosure as to all of the beliefs up front. He would NOT be expected to donate, donate, donate. No redges would hound his ass. He would not have to be a member of a Catholic fraternity, such as the Knights of Columbus or Opus Dei to be a Catholic in good standing, the way that IAS membership and donations is required of Scilons. A Catholic could go to confessional whenever he wants to, he need not purchase 12.5 hour blocks of confessional time. Again, I could go on and on. The bottom line ... someone walking into a Catholic church could get a full disclosure up front before deciding to join up, and that is the most important.

Pete


The problem with your comparisons is that they are not accurate.

The Jesuit Order is not an "intelligence department" in fact the closest thing to an intelligence department is the Department of State at the Vatican which does have a department to collate and assemble reports. The Jesuits are a teaching order. They do observe and report because the Jesuits tend to be in areas of the world that remote from other organized areas of the Catholic Church.

The Vatican has highly literate, intelligent and well connected people around the world all of whom write reports. It also has a lot of reporters for various catholic newspapers around the world. Organizing the information that it gets is a function of the Secretary of State's department. Not the Jesuits.

Excommunication is not the same as "disconnection", not even close. Even though the CofS tries to justify what it does by saying it is - it is not. Nor does it have anything like a "suppressive person" thing going for it either. A Catholic can talk to someone who is excommunicated. The ONLY thing that excommunicated means is that the person is denied the sacraments of the Catholic Church.

AS for being a "top down" - again I do not think you know how the Catholic Church is organized. The Church is run by the Curia and the various "Congregations" . Locally the Church is run by the Bishops - not by the Vatican. The Bishops in each country and diocese are autonomous.
 

NeXTep

Patron with Honors
As long as they could make people believe that the Catholic Church was the only way to salvation they pretty much behaved the same way as the CofS does today.

Up until the reformation, if you had money you had to pay vast sums to the church to be absolved from all sin. On top of that it wasn't unusual to have the church inherit you when you died. Not to speak about going regularly to church. You'd become an outcast if you didn't, similar to a suppressive person today in the CofS. Further it wasn't unusual to send one of your children to a monastery as a "gift" to the church.

That stronghold on followers in many catholic "governed" areas lasted at least until the middle of the last century.

So don't tell me that the Catholic Church is any better. They just lost control over their followers, because they don't have anything to offer than a belief system. To my knowledge in the US the Catholic Church never reached any significant power and control. This was mainly due to the fact that the population in the US is too much mixed up.
 

FinallyMe

Silver Meritorious Patron
I find it beautiful that, however upset the Scilons are about these articles, they can't do a damn thing about them! No way could they sue the writer/publisher for, say, libel - they'd have to come up with documents and testimony that proved the articles are wrong. No copyright infringement because nothing was even quoted. Nothing! HAAHAHAHAHAHA!
 

RogerB

Crusader
And I think it ain't over yet . . . imagine the ammo that must be poring in for this site to use now!!!

:D:D

R
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Excellent observation.

I find it beautiful that, however upset the Scilons are about these articles, they can't do a damn thing about them! No way could they sue the writer/publisher for, say, libel - they'd have to come up with documents and testimony that proved the articles are wrong. No copyright infringement because nothing was even quoted. Nothing! HAAHAHAHAHAHA!

(bolding mine)

That document was really well constructed, wasted no words and was obviously carefully "vetted".

The C/S chortled with glee when she read it. :coolwink:

EP
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
As long as they could make people believe that the Catholic Church was the only way to salvation they pretty much behaved the same way as the CofS does today.

Totally spot on NeXTep. They are a great example of what happens when religions get total control (IMHO)

Up until the reformation, if you had money you had to pay vast sums to the church to be absolved from all sin. On top of that it wasn't unusual to have the church inherit you when you died. Not to speak about going regularly to church. You'd become an outcast if you didn't, similar to a suppressive person today in the CofS. Further it wasn't unusual to send one of your children to a monastery as a "gift" to the church

If I might, politely, disagree here - and for no other reason than I love discussing history - The reason for sending one of the children to the church was to secure a foothold in a powerful organization and to avoid the fact that children after the eldest son inherited NOTHING. One of the reasons why the Crusades happened was because of the increase of the aristocratic population (particularly in France) creating an abundance of landless knights and needing something for them to do other than to rob and pillage their own country.

Poor people would give their children to the church to avoid having to feed them.

AS for the "outcast" yep definitely was much more of an intense thing back when they controlled the country.

That stronghold on followers in many catholic "governed" areas lasted at least until the middle of the last century.

Not sure what you mean.

So don't tell me that the Catholic Church is any better. They just lost control over their followers, because they don't have anything to offer than a belief system. To my knowledge in the US the Catholic Church never reached any significant power and control. This was mainly due to the fact that the population in the US is too much mixed up.

yes it is better - precisely because it had to learn. That makes it much better than the CofS.

As for whether the Catholic Church achieved power and control - no tin the same way as in Europe but simply because of the separation of Church and State. In Europe there is no separation - in England, for example, Bishops of the CHurch of England sit in the House of Lords. In Denmark the Church is supported by taxes administered by the government. Until the 1970's in Northern Ireland catholics could not be appointed to public office and there is a whole bunch more like that.

But the Catholic Church, especially on the East Coast has been very powerful especially since the waves of Irish Immigration and the founding of the Catholic Colleges.
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
depends on who you believe

The problem with your comparisons is that they are not accurate.

The Jesuit Order is not an "intelligence department" in fact the closest thing to an intelligence department is the Department of State at the Vatican which does have a department to collate and assemble reports. The Jesuits are a teaching order. They do observe and report because the Jesuits tend to be in areas of the world that remote from other organized areas of the Catholic Church.

The Vatican has highly literate, intelligent and well connected people around the world all of whom write reports. It also has a lot of reporters for various catholic newspapers around the world. Organizing the information that it gets is a function of the Secretary of State's department. Not the Jesuits.

Excommunication is not the same as "disconnection", not even close. Even though the CofS tries to justify what it does by saying it is - it is not. Nor does it have anything like a "suppressive person" thing going for it either. A Catholic can talk to someone who is excommunicated. The ONLY thing that excommunicated means is that the person is denied the sacraments of the Catholic Church.

AS for being a "top down" - again I do not think you know how the Catholic Church is organized. The Church is run by the Curia and the various "Congregations" . Locally the Church is run by the Bishops - not by the Vatican. The Bishops in each country and diocese are autonomous.

Depends on who you want to believe. There are the writings of ex Jesuit priest Father Rivera who unfortunately has passed away and is not available for questioning. There is also the book by Charles Chiniquay, "Fifty Years in the Church of Rome" written in the latter part of the 19th century. There is also the small matter of the Vatican's wholly owned subsidiary corporation, I believe it is a not-for-profit corporation OTHER than a religious-not-for-profit corporation known as Unidroit, their web page being http://www.unidroit.org
Unidroit is the publisher of the Uniform Commercial Code. The avowed purpose of Unidroit is the unification, planet wide, of private commercial law. In otherwords, the Vatican is ultimately behind the subversion of the law system in the USA and elsewhere, a system whereby the law of the sea has been pushed onto dry land and has turned the vast majority of the people from sovereigns into subjects. If you would like to know more about this subject/gain an understanding thereof, try http://www.thinkfree.ca click on the "FREE MOVIES!" button at the top of the page, and see all of the videos starting with "Bursting Bubbles of Government Deception". Another great site is http://www.famguardian.org

Regarding the Jesuits being highly educated and learned men ... this is very true. I have met a few of them. I was at least wise enough to not go into an accusatory mode and rather try to engage some diialog for the purpose of gaining some understanding. I have the greatest respect for the Jesuits. Of course, the fact that they are as intelligent, learned, and well studied as they are makes them a whole lot more dangerous, than, say, some redneck screaming hate filled, racist rhetoric.

Pete
 

RogerB

Crusader
As long as they could make people believe that the Catholic Church was the only way to salvation they pretty much behaved the same way as the CofS does today.

Up until the reformation, if you had money you had to pay vast sums to the church to be absolved from all sin. On top of that it wasn't unusual to have the church inherit you when you died. Not to speak about going regularly to church. You'd become an outcast if you didn't, similar to a suppressive person today in the CofS. Further it wasn't unusual to send one of your children to a monastery as a "gift" to the church.

That stronghold on followers in many catholic "governed" areas lasted at least until the middle of the last century.

So don't tell me that the Catholic Church is any better. They just lost control over their followers, because they don't have anything to offer than a belief system. To my knowledge in the US the Catholic Church never reached any significant power and control. This was mainly due to the fact that the population in the US is too much mixed up.

Valid point you make above in red NeXTep.

They went the same route as the cult is going . . . abuse of the "patrons" is a quick smart was to have them rebel against you! :yes:

Proof that the cult's "tech" is more workable is that they are accomplishing in 50+ years what the church of Rome took 1,500 years to do! :duh:

Rog
 
The Catholic church has its own intel dept., it is known as the Jesuit order, and, specifically, there are special units within the Jesuit order ... they actually put OSA to shame. The Catholic church has its share of rituals that may seem whacky, just like Cof$. The Catholic church has excommunication, just as Cof$ has suppressive declares. The Catholic church has some serious real estate holdings, just like Cof$. The Catholic church is a top down structure, with one man at the top, i.e., the Pope, Cof$ has its COB. I could go on and on with comparisons.

You could go on with the comparisons, but if they're anything like the ones you've made so far, they would also be wrong.

The Jesuit order is NOT the Catholic version of OSA. Jesuits do not report back to the Vatican on enemies of the church. They are not an evil organization planning world domination. Opus Dei might have gotten tarred with the conspiracy brush by the Da Vinci Code, but they also aren't an OSA group.

As far as I can tell, the CoS rituals are a mixture of interrogation, hypnosis and brain washing. Notes are taken, and then placed in a folder. These folders are sometimes sent to others and mulled over. There are claims that this information is then used to blackmail those who want to leave. In a Catholic confession, no notes are kept. The priest is not allowed to discuss "your case" with anyone. If he does, he will be kicked out. No ifs, no buts, no maybes. The sanctity of the confessional cannot be tarnished by anyone. A priest who reveals what he knows will not be in the church for long.

True, the Catholic church does have excommunication, but... if you are excommunicated you are still allowed to talk to anyone. Parishioners are not told to shun you, or else. And if you are excommunicated, you can still attend church (you just can't take communion).

The Catholic Church is not in the same league as the CoS when it comes to property. They are in a different galaxy. Just start with the Vatican. That's prime real estate in one of the most beautiful cities in the world. It's not some god-awful ex-hospital building that was painted blue to save cash. Ideal Orgs? Considering how proud Scientology is of their "artists," it's sad that the only art/decoration the CoS can produce is gaudy, tacky, kitsch and tasteless. Go to any of the Catholic churches just in Rome and you will see true works of art. Then go anywhere else in Italy. Or France. Or Spain. etc. etc. When it comes to property, the CoS is still renting a double-wide in a trailer park, while the Catholic church has the Vatican. It's not the same. Of course, the Catholic church did have a 2000 year head start.

As for the comparison between the COB and the Pope.... well, it's just laughable. The COB weasled his way to the top by staging a coup after LRH died. The Pope, not so much. The Pope is also a very public figure. He gives speeches, holds mass, and can be visited in person if you write to ask for an audience in advance. You don't even need to be a Catholic to request an audience. How do you go about meeting Miscavige? Can you even get close to him? His whereabouts are "top secret." Why?

As the figurehead of what he claims to be "the fastest growing religion," he should be in the public eye, showing off just how great Scientology is. But the last time COB was on TV was on Nightline in 1992. That's 18 years ago! While the Pope has to know the scriptures backwards, forwards and sideways (he was also "a defender of the faith" in his younger days), I don't see Miscavige doing the same thing. Do you think Miscavige even goes for auditing?

When the Pope is chosen, the world watches. He becomes the spiritual leader for HUNDREDS of millions of people. When the Pope says something, world leaders listen. When leaders visit Rome, it is common for them to also have an audience with the Pope. When Miscavige speaks, I'm guessing most world leaders go "who the fuck is this dwarf with the terrible accent?"

Also, don't you think it's pathetic that the leader of ANY church is impressed by Hollywood celebrity? The COB lurves to hang out with Tom Cruise because he believes he's a star. It empowers him. The Pope again, not so much. It's the other way around. The Church is the star, and the Pope's job is to keep it that way.

As for the structure of the Church, again the two can't be compared. Of the senior ranking Bishops, Archbishops, etc., how many have been excommunicated and thus kicked out of the church? Compare that to the high ranking members kicked out from the CoS... where the entire level of upper-management has been replaced.

Last but not least, the Catholic church is open to dialogue with other religions and does a lot of good, all around the world, for those suffering from hunger, disease, poverty, etc., even if those that they are helping are not Catholic. The CoS doesn't seem to engage in anything (that they offer for free).

There is no Catholic RPF. Or Jewish RPF. Or Buddhist RPF. But CoS has a prison camp system.... how nice!

The Catholic Church has the cross as a symbol. The cross has a meaning. It is a constant reminder, for believers, of the suffering of Jesus. Does the cross have any meaning in Scientology? No! It's nothing more than a corporate logo, used cynically by an organization that thinks it knows which boxes to tick in order to pass off as a religion.

Oh, and Bibles are free. You can get "the whole story" up front without paying a dime. No regging. No hassle. No love-bombing attacks.

The Catholic Church and the CoS only have one thing in common... they both use the word "church." But it ends there.

They are not the same. They are not even remotely similar.
 

NeXTep

Patron with Honors
If I might, politely, disagree here - and for no other reason than I love discussing history - The reason for sending one of the children to the church was to secure a foothold in a powerful organization and to avoid the fact that children after the eldest son inherited NOTHING. One of the reasons why the Crusades happened was because of the increase of the aristocratic population (particularly in France) creating an abundance of landless knights and needing something for them to do other than to rob and pillage their own country.

Poor people would give their children to the church to avoid having to feed them.

AS for the "outcast" yep definitely was much more of an intense thing back when they controlled the country.

You're probably right on this view. Nevertheless to satisfy the "needs" of the church was a very important factor too.

That stronghold on followers in many catholic "governed" areas lasted at least until the middle of the last century.

Not sure what you mean.

By this I meant that the catholic church still had a rather strong control on its followers in areas where they had the power.

yes it is better - precisely because it had to learn. That makes it much better than the CofS.

Well it took them some centuries too to get to that point. The CofS only has 60 years so far. Since things are running much faster these days they will probably not even get a chance to reform before drowning. :D
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
One of the nicest people I ever met was a hitchhiker I gave a very long ride to. It turned out that he was a Jesuit who had devoted his life to working and living with the homeless and other people marginalized from society for one reason or another. I said he didn't look like a priest, as he had longish hair and well - worn jeans on, and he just laughed. He just traveled around being a friend to the friendless, asking for nothing in return. All he owned was in his backpack. He was the most humble and kind person I had ever met. I offered him some money, and he said no thanks, but allowed me to buy some food for him to give out. I'll never forget him.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Depends on who you want to believe. There are the writings of ex Jesuit priest Father Rivera who unfortunately has passed away and is not available for questioning. There is also the book by Charles Chiniquay, "Fifty Years in the Church of Rome" written in the latter part of the 19th century. There is also the small matter of the Vatican's wholly owned subsidiary corporation, I believe it is a not-for-profit corporation OTHER than a religious-not-for-profit corporation known as Unidroit, their web page being http://www.unidroit.org
Unidroit is the publisher of the Uniform Commercial Code. The avowed purpose of Unidroit is the unification, planet wide, of private commercial law. In otherwords, the Vatican is ultimately behind the subversion of the law system in the USA and elsewhere, a system whereby the law of the sea has been pushed onto dry land and has turned the vast majority of the people from sovereigns into subjects. If you would like to know more about this subject/gain an understanding thereof, try http://www.thinkfree.ca click on the "FREE MOVIES!" button at the top of the page, and see all of the videos starting with "Bursting Bubbles of Government Deception". Another great site is http://www.famguardian.org

Regarding the Jesuits being highly educated and learned men ... this is very true. I have met a few of them. I was at least wise enough to not go into an accusatory mode and rather try to engage some diialog for the purpose of gaining some understanding. I have the greatest respect for the Jesuits. Of course, the fact that they are as intelligent, learned, and well studied as they are makes them a whole lot more dangerous, than, say, some redneck screaming hate filled, racist rhetoric.

Pete

seriously Pete - did you actually go look at UNidroit? The Website you referenced and the articles of confederation? Where did you get the info from that it is an owned subsidiary of the Vatican for example? It was set up by six governments, not sure what it is you are reading and where the info is coming from.

The Italian government helped fund it - not the Vatican. It deals with things like stolen artifacts, trading stamps and international private law from what I can see - I claim no expertise here - just reading some of the web sites about it.

Actually the Catholic Church as a whole is filled with very well read, well educated people. Apropos as it considers its mission to be teaching.
 

Truth&Honesty

Patron with Honors
Show a little respect.....

Good grief people....... we have FINALLY found a champion for our cause, who is bigger and has far more resources than that evil, flea-ridden cult. Another words, the bully has finally met Godzilla!!!

So please.... show a little respect. No one is perfect on this earth. If you are going to stop and criticize everyone who lends a helping hand.....then we are in big trouble.

If you have an ax to grind with the Catholic Church, go find a website that specifically caters to that. Right now, they are the best hope we have - they should be our "super hero". Anything less than showing gratitude, is serving OSA's purpose.

THE ENEMY OF MY ENEMY IS MY FRIEND!
 

Lohan2008

Gold Meritorious Patron
Catholic online

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=35407

Regular readers of Catholic Online will have noticed that the Church of Scientology has been in our cross-hairs several times this past year. Personally, I have written a dozen articles on the subject.

As Catholics, there is no doubt that we take issue with the system of belief embraced by the Church of Scientology. No amount of good works can offset the fact that the group proposes doctrines that are irreconcilable with Christianity. From a Catholic perspective, they are not a legitimate religion.
 

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
The Whore of Babylon fighting the Beast!

It doesn't get any better than this.
 
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