The Church’s latest offer – and why you should take it

HappyGirl

Gold Meritorious Patron
:welcome: Outsider! I think Amnesty Intl is a great idea! How does one report an issue like this to them?
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I'm new here after lurking for the past year and I don't pretend to know a whole lot about what's going on here but I can't help but think that between the fact that Gold is listed as a residence (gotta be illegal!) and what is claimed here about people being held against their will, you are definitely on to at least a couple of strategies that can derail these terrible folks. Regarding people being held against their will: Has anyone, to your knowledge, ever forwarded detailed information about this to Amnesty International. This is right up their alley and they might be able to be of assistance here. Just a thought. The courage of you people astounds me!


Hello Outsider and a big welcome to you.

Not sure re your question (re AI) ... but I expect someone will have a reply soon ...

Anyway ... its good to have you on board.

:dance3: :dance3: :dance3:
 

masonj

Patron
The Church’s latest offer- Where are you getting this stuff?

fishdaddy wrote:
Newbie

Well, the Church is desperate. So desperate that they now have Tommy Davis, the Golden Boy,the Church’s “top PR,” working full time on a campaign to get the “Good SPs” to disconnect from the “Bad SPs.” The offer is irresistible – they will cancel your Freeloader Debt. They will fast-track you’re A to E steps. Just think – you’ll be able to talk to your family again!!! All you have to do is disconnect from Headley, Rathbun, et. al.


:confused2:

I don't know where you are getting your data from or if for some
reason you are just making this stuff up but I actually spoke with
someone who met with Tommy Davis for some hours to see if he could
get his scene sorted out so that he could get back in comm with his
family. There was no deal and no “buy now.” Tommy told the guy
(who has been out for the past five years) there were no deals just
standard application of policy. He was happy with this since there
had been so many arbitraries on his situation - including his
freeloader bill. He came away from the meeting pumped. He said
the thing that surprised him the most was the amount of expansion
occurring in the Church since he left. He said he had no clue and
said that he bought into all rumors going around – mainly on the
Internet - about the Church collapsing. He came away from the
meeting that the Church is not collapsing and just the opposite it
is getting bigger and bigger. He was shown the new buildings that
were purchased and the new AO in South Africa. When I told him
that I didn't believe it and, he tried to get me to go and see
Tommy. His viewpoint is that the Church has expanded more in the
last five years than anyone who hasn't been there could possibly
know. It seems like you probably didn't talk to anyone who had
actually spoken to Tommy and that you, Headley and Rathbun are
upset that people are talking to him and are really just trying to
discourage people from getting sorted out and back on lines - or
maybe you are just upset that no one from the Church came to see
you or talk to you. Did you think there would be no marketing after
you left or something? You can't really seriously think the Church
is going to reach out for the people who are attacking them. They
seem to want to contact and help the people who want to sort out
their scene. I am seriously considering doing the same.
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Go masonj!

fishdaddy wrote:
Newbie

Well, the Church is desperate. So desperate that they now have Tommy Davis, the Golden Boy,the Church’s “top PR,” working full time on a campaign to get the “Good SPs” to disconnect from the “Bad SPs.”

...snip

masonj wrote:

You can't really seriously think the Church
is going to reach out for the people who are attacking them. They
seem to want to contact and help the people who want to sort out
their scene. I am seriously considering doing the same
.

Go for it! :yes: And report back with your findings in CSW format, please. :p

EP
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
The campaign is simply a divide and conquer maneuver. If they really intended to recover people, they would offer an Amnesty, admit they had done things wrongly and apologize. Until that point, I have no interest in anything they have to say. When that is done, I would be interested in burying the hatchet for the sake of the people I know who are "still in", but I wouldn't recognize the authority of the Church or any of it's bodies to regulate or control my communication on any subject with anyone, in any way.
 

Daisy

Patron with Honors
fishdaddy wrote:
Newbie

Well, the Church is desperate. So desperate that they now have Tommy Davis, the Golden Boy,the Church’s “top PR,” working full time on a campaign to get the “Good SPs” to disconnect from the “Bad SPs.” The offer is irresistible – they will cancel your Freeloader Debt. They will fast-track you’re A to E steps. Just think – you’ll be able to talk to your family again!!! All you have to do is disconnect from Headley, Rathbun, et. al.


:confused2:

I don't know where you are getting your data from or if for some
reason you are just making this stuff up but I actually spoke with
someone who met with Tommy Davis for some hours to see if he could
get his scene sorted out so that he could get back in comm with his
family. There was no deal and no “buy now.” Tommy told the guy
(who has been out for the past five years) there were no deals just
standard application of policy. He was happy with this since there
had been so many arbitraries on his situation - including his
freeloader bill. He came away from the meeting pumped. He said
the thing that surprised him the most was the amount of expansion
occurring in the Church since he left. He said he had no clue and
said that he bought into all rumors going around – mainly on the
Internet - about the Church collapsing. He came away from the
meeting that the Church is not collapsing and just the opposite it
is getting bigger and bigger. He was shown the new buildings that
were purchased and the new AO in South Africa. When I told him
that I didn't believe it and, he tried to get me to go and see
Tommy. His viewpoint is that the Church has expanded more in the
last five years than anyone who hasn't been there could possibly
know. It seems like you probably didn't talk to anyone who had
actually spoken to Tommy and that you, Headley and Rathbun are
upset that people are talking to him and are really just trying to
discourage people from getting sorted out and back on lines - or
maybe you are just upset that no one from the Church came to see
you or talk to you. Did you think there would be no marketing after
you left or something? You can't really seriously think the Church
is going to reach out for the people who are attacking them. They
seem to want to contact and help the people who want to sort out
their scene. I am seriously considering doing the same.

I suggest to you to go find out for yourself if scientology is truly expanding and not take anyone's word for it.

I protest monthly in the SF Bay Area and scientology is certainly not expanding here.

Or I quess you could go to the birthday event and report back all the stunning stats once again.
 

fishdaddy

Patron
Hi masonj,

Well, believe it or not I talked with a number of people who went in for these interviews and other handlings and got very detailed reports. Just because people visibly "disconnect" from me on Facebook doesn't mean they don't talk to me. You would be surprised at how freely information flows here on the "outside."

Interesting that you repeat the line that there "was no special deal" and "this was not a buy now." In the interviews, Tommy kept repeating this over and over - "this is not a special deal, this is not a buy now, we are only here to help." In fact, he repeated it so many times that one could begin to think the opposite! Methinks they do protest too much.

But obviously, some people believe them. Like you.

Some people believe anything their church tells them. Like all of the tremendous expansion of Scientology, how rapidly it is growing and so on. And as "evidence" they show you pictures of buildings. Oh great. What they don't tell you is that those big buildings are all empty shells - even the acclaimed SuperPower Building, which has been an empty shell for ten years.

Call me a cynic, but I sat through too many meetings where this sort of bogus "expansion news" was cooked up to give it very much credence.

But if you want to go ahead and believe Tommy Davis, knock yourself out! If you want to repeat everything he says as "fact," go for it.

And as to taking the Church's "deal," I wish you would. Because that is exactly where you belong, inside the Church, believing and repeating everything they say.

Good luck with that.

Fishdaddy
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
fishdaddy wrote:
Newbie

Well, the Church is desperate. So desperate that they now have Tommy Davis, the Golden Boy,the Church’s “top PR,” working full time on a campaign to get the “Good SPs” to disconnect from the “Bad SPs.” The offer is irresistible – they will cancel your Freeloader Debt. They will fast-track you’re A to E steps. Just think – you’ll be able to talk to your family again!!! All you have to do is disconnect from Headley, Rathbun, et. al.


:confused2:

I don't know where you are getting your data from or if for some
reason you are just making this stuff up but I actually spoke with
someone who met with Tommy Davis for some hours to see if he could
get his scene sorted out so that he could get back in comm with his
family. There was no deal and no “buy now.” Tommy told the guy
(who has been out for the past five years) there were no deals just
standard application of policy. He was happy with this since there
had been so many arbitraries on his situation - including his
freeloader bill. He came away from the meeting pumped. He said
the thing that surprised him the most was the amount of expansion
occurring in the Church since he left. He said he had no clue and
said that he bought into all rumors going around – mainly on the
Internet - about the Church collapsing. He came away from the
meeting that the Church is not collapsing and just the opposite it
is getting bigger and bigger. He was shown the new buildings that
were purchased and the new AO in South Africa. When I told him
that I didn't believe it and, he tried to get me to go and see
Tommy. His viewpoint is that the Church has expanded more in the
last five years than anyone who hasn't been there could possibly
know. It seems like you probably didn't talk to anyone who had
actually spoken to Tommy and that you, Headley and Rathbun are
upset that people are talking to him and are really just trying to
discourage people from getting sorted out and back on lines - or
maybe you are just upset that no one from the Church came to see
you or talk to you. Did you think there would be no marketing after
you left or something? You can't really seriously think the Church
is going to reach out for the people who are attacking them. They
seem to want to contact and help the people who want to sort out
their scene. I am seriously considering doing the same.


Are you judging this based on the amount of buildings being purchased?
Have you actually gone into one of the orgs?
I know my local org is nearly empty. There's no expansion here.

Is it possible they are only giving deals to those directly associated with litigation? Ask yourself that question. Why would they help someone who is willing to A-E and willing to pay off their freeloader debt?

You're obviously a churchie.
 

Been Done Had

Patron with Honors
fishdaddy wrote:

Well, the Church is desperate. So desperate that they now have Tommy Davis, the Golden Boy,the Church’s “top PR,” working full time on a campaign to get the “Good SPs” to disconnect from the “Bad SPs.” The offer is irresistible – they will cancel your Freeloader Debt. They will fast-track you’re A to E steps. Just think – you’ll be able to talk to your family again!!! All you have to do is disconnect from Headley, Rathbun, et. al.

:confused2:

I don't know where you are getting your data from or if for some
reason you are just making this stuff up...

[SNIP DEAD AGENT MATERIAL]

They seem to want to contact and help the people who want to sort out
their scene. I am seriously considering doing the same.

First of all, hello and welcome to the board. If you decide to get back in good standing (assuming you are not) I hope it goes well for you and the church delivers on its promises (read the contracts they promise nothing of course.)

So after a nice ethics program, days of writing up OWs, donating books packages to libraries, disconnecting from any wog friends you have made, several intensives of sec checks, culling any entheta from your computer and space, being thoroughly debriefed on any and all critical statements and data you have seen, heard and received...

After all that, and playing the game and making amends and doing projects and paying IAS, and regging people on services and disseminating and being a gung-ho dedicated Scientologist, do you really think OSA will give you clearance for upper level materials? Just asking.

After all that, if ever you want to come back here and just hang out and look, and listen and talk, we would love to have you.

Take care.

BDH
 
Last edited:

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
fishdaddy wrote:
Newbie

Well, the Church is desperate. So desperate that they now have Tommy Davis, the Golden Boy,the Church’s “top PR,” working full time on a campaign to get the “Good SPs” to disconnect from the “Bad SPs.” The offer is irresistible – they will cancel your Freeloader Debt. They will fast-track you’re A to E steps. Just think – you’ll be able to talk to your family again!!! All you have to do is disconnect from Headley, Rathbun, et. al.


:confused2:

I don't know where you are getting your data from or if for some
reason you are just making this stuff up but I actually spoke with
someone who met with Tommy Davis for some hours to see if he could
get his scene sorted out so that he could get back in comm with his
family. There was no deal and no “buy now.” Tommy told the guy
(who has been out for the past five years) there were no deals just
standard application of policy. He was happy with this since there
had been so many arbitraries on his situation - including his
freeloader bill. He came away from the meeting pumped. He said
the thing that surprised him the most was the amount of expansion
occurring in the Church since he left. He said he had no clue and
said that he bought into all rumors going around – mainly on the
Internet - about the Church collapsing. He came away from the
meeting that the Church is not collapsing and just the opposite it
is getting bigger and bigger. He was shown the new buildings that
were purchased and the new AO in South Africa. When I told him
that I didn't believe it and, he tried to get me to go and see
Tommy. His viewpoint is that the Church has expanded more in the
last five years than anyone who hasn't been there could possibly
know. It seems like you probably didn't talk to anyone who had
actually spoken to Tommy and that you, Headley and Rathbun are
upset that people are talking to him and are really just trying to
discourage people from getting sorted out and back on lines - or
maybe you are just upset that no one from the Church came to see
you or talk to you. Did you think there would be no marketing after
you left or something? You can't really seriously think the Church
is going to reach out for the people who are attacking them. They
seem to want to contact and help the people who want to sort out
their scene. I am seriously considering doing the same.


OMG!! I almost fell off my chair laughing!!

You are priceless - this is the BEST that you can come up with?

Your scene???

Start posting under your own name and we will see how much of "your scene" is how you claim it to be.

But thank you for the great laugh - I had no idea that OSA had learned nothing from the last 10 years!

Ron was right.

Ron White of course! - "You can't fix stupid"
 

ILived1984!

Patron with Honors
Some people believe anything their church tells them. Like all of the tremendous expansion of Scientology, how rapidly it is growing and so on. And as "evidence" they show you pictures of buildings. Oh great. What they don't tell you is that those big buildings are all empty shells - even the acclaimed SuperPower Building, which has been an empty shell for ten years.

Call me a cynic, but I sat through too many meetings where this sort of bogus "expansion news" was cooked up to give it very much credence.

Fishdaddy

This is so true. I was in the SO for the majority of the last 5 years and every event was about the explosive expansion across the world and how the last x years have been the most expansive. I was at a point where I actually thought Scientology was truly on it's way to make a cleared planet. But a few things happened. I actually went on a tour and went to a handful of ideal orgs and saw how pretty the buildings are along with how empty they were. I kept seeing contraction at the base I was at and started seeing the int events for what they are: magnificent PR machines of awe and wonder carefully scripted to take the smallest win or expansion and make them look absolutely huge with only their side of the story. :duh:

Masonj, better do your research a little more.

Fishdaddy, you are a hero of mine. :thumbsup:
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
This is so true. I was in the SO for the majority of the last 5 years and every event was about the explosive expansion across the world and how the last x years have been the most expansive. I was at a point where I actually thought Scientology was truly on it's way to make a cleared planet. But a few things happened. I actually went on a tour and went to a handful of ideal orgs and saw how pretty the buildings are along with how empty they were. I kept seeing contraction at the base I was at and started seeing the int events for what they are: magnificent PR machines of awe and wonder carefully scripted to take the smallest win or expansion and make them look absolutely huge with only their side of the story. :duh:

Masonj, better do your research a little more.

Fishdaddy, you are a hero of mine. :thumbsup:

I agree totally with this.

I was "in" until October last year - expansion was visibly absent from EVERY sphere of scientology I had anything to do with.

Hardship has become so endemic to culties it's impossible to understand unless you see it for yourself.

But, because you "know" you are downstat, you just shut up and try to get your stats up so that you are not letting down the huge effort everyone else is making to just push that bit more to take the planet once and for all.

:puke2:

My only questions are these:

How much is left of SO reserves?

How much has Lil Nap squandered n his grandiose failed plans for world domination?

What is the current scene money-wise?

I know that the inflow of new public is vritually non-existant. I know that OSA is so desparate to slow any further erosion of cultie confidence in management that they are doing all sorts of wild and desparate things, most of which backfire badly.

There is so little left of the once-powerful cult that it's almost laughable.

Except that there's still a lot of good people suffering in silence under the crap.

I just want it ended as soon as possible - Masonj you need to have a look at the REAL stats - what does your local org look like inside?
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
fishdaddy wrote:
Newbie

Well, the Church is desperate. So desperate that they now have Tommy Davis, the Golden Boy,the Church’s “top PR,” working full time on a campaign to get the “Good SPs” to disconnect from the “Bad SPs.” The offer is irresistible – they will cancel your Freeloader Debt. They will fast-track you’re A to E steps. Just think – you’ll be able to talk to your family again!!! All you have to do is disconnect from Headley, Rathbun, et. al.


:confused2:

I don't know where you are getting your data from or if for some
reason you are just making this stuff up but I actually spoke with
someone who met with Tommy Davis for some hours to see if he could
get his scene sorted out so that he could get back in comm with his
family. There was no deal and no “buy now.” Tommy told the guy
(who has been out for the past five years) there were no deals just
standard application of policy. He was happy with this since there
had been so many arbitraries on his situation - including his
freeloader bill. He came away from the meeting pumped. He said
the thing that surprised him the most was the amount of expansion
occurring in the Church since he left. He said he had no clue and
said that he bought into all rumors going around – mainly on the
Internet - about the Church collapsing. He came away from the
meeting that the Church is not collapsing and just the opposite it
is getting bigger and bigger. He was shown the new buildings that
were purchased and the new AO in South Africa. When I told him
that I didn't believe it and, he tried to get me to go and see
Tommy. His viewpoint is that the Church has expanded more in the
last five years than anyone who hasn't been there could possibly
know. It seems like you probably didn't talk to anyone who had
actually spoken to Tommy and that you, Headley and Rathbun are
upset that people are talking to him and are really just trying to
discourage people from getting sorted out and back on lines - or
maybe you are just upset that no one from the Church came to see
you or talk to you. Did you think there would be no marketing after
you left or something? You can't really seriously think the Church
is going to reach out for the people who are attacking them. They
seem to want to contact and help the people who want to sort out
their scene. I am seriously considering doing the same.

Welcome to ESMB, Masonj!

Be sure to let us know how your cycle goes with the Church, along with all the expansion news you find out.

I'm very interested to hear about that.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
...but I actually spoke with someone who met with Tommy Davis for some hours...Tommy told the guy...He was shown the new buildings that were purchased and the new AO in South Africa.

I know this is hearsay, but what's that about the new AO in South Africa? I don't recall hearing about any official announcement from the CofS about that. The idea of having an AO in Joburg has been kicking around for 30 years at least, but way back then it wasn't considered viable because there weren't enough public to support one. I can't see that there are more public now!

In the FZ one guy can call himself "an AO", merely because he has access to the materials (more or less) and can deliver something or other vaguely relating to a small part of what the CofS does with those levels. But a CofS AO would need a SH too, able to deliver the Briefing Course etc. etc., basically a huge operation needing lots of highly trained staff.

This piddly little Castle wannabe isn't big enough for such an org, although it would work for a FZ-type operation.

Paul
 

masonj

Patron
fishdaddy wrote:

Hi masonj,

Well, believe it or not I talked with a number of people who went in for these interviews and other handlings and got very detailed reports. Just because people visibly "disconnect" from me on Facebook doesn't mean they don't talk to me. You would be surprised at how freely information flows here on the "outside."

Not sure why you're trying to make it look like I somehow don't know what is going on on the “outside” but it seems like you're just trying to make it appear that because someone has affinity for the Church and wants to be part of it, they're automatically wrong and can't think for themselves. Makes it look like you have an agenda to keep people from getting the information.

Some people believe anything their church tells them. Like all of the tremendous expansion of Scientology, how rapidly it is growing and so on. And as "evidence" they show you pictures of buildings. Oh great. What they don't tell you is that those big buildings are all empty shells - even the acclaimed SuperPower Building, which has been an empty shell for ten years.

You forget to mention the $40 million reno job just completed across the street from the Super Power building that the St. Petersburg Times reported on. If the Church has fallen apart and is collapsing like you want everyone to think, how did the Fort Harrison get done? Again, you seem to only be pushing an agenda which doesn't include allowing someone to find out for themselves. When the renovations get done on the Super Power Building, you'll probably have some other complaint to try and fulfill your agenda.

Call me a cynic, but I sat through too many meetings where this sort of bogus "expansion news" was cooked up to give it very much credence.

Ever think that this is why you may not be there now? Cooking up bogus expansion news which you say you were doing isn't exactly honest. I'm not really trying to give you a hard time, but I think you're trying to make it look like “everyone” else was doing the things that you were doing.


But if you want to go ahead and believe Tommy Davis, knock yourself out! If you want to repeat everything he says as "fact," go for it. And as to taking the Church's "deal," I wish you would. Because that is exactly where you belong, inside the Church, believing and repeating everything they say. Good luck with that.

I just think that people should be able to find out for themselves. If someone wants to get back in good standing, then they should be able to meet someone in the Church and hear what they have to say first hand.

You are trying to make it seem that anyone in the Church is wrong and everyone has to think like you do. Evidently you don't think that people are smart enough to make up their own minds. There's also people out there who do want to get back in and there's nothing wrong with it if that is what they want to do.

P.S. I still doubt that you got your “info” from someone who spoke to Tommy Davis.

:hmm:
 

masonj

Patron
Daisy wrote:

I suggest to you to go find out for yourself if scientology is truly expanding and not take anyone's word for it. I protest monthly in the SF Bay Area and scientology is certainly not expanding here.

When you go and protest I assume this is with the masked Anonymous people?

Or I quess you could go to the birthday event and report back all the stunning stats once again.

Well, I didn't go to the birthday event. I did hear about it. But if I told you about it, you'd automatically say that whatever was I was told was obviously something that the Church made up, so I won't even repeat what I heard.

But, according to an article I saw posted on this board, they also opened up the renovated Ft. Harrison. How do you explain the $40 million renovated Fort Harrison? Are you going to tell me that they spent $40 million so that no one would come and stay in the hotel? And since the Church is doing so badly, how the hell did they get $40 million? The article said that they're going to do the Super Power Building next. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
 

masonj

Patron
Alanzo wrote:

Welcome to ESMB, Masonj!

Be sure to let us know how your cycle goes with the Church, along with all the expansion news you find out.

I'm very interested to hear about that.

If I decide to do that, I will let you know.
 

masonj

Patron
Dulloldfart wrote:

This piddly little Castle wannabe isn't big enough for such an org, although it would work for a FZ-type operation.

Paul

Now, you really made me laugh. I can see you're trying to get me into defending the Church simply because I was interested in talking to someone about the possibility of getting back in. But, trying to compare a castle the Church purchased – which you call piddly – to the Freezone? Please show me a few of the buildings the Freezone has please.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Dulloldfart wrote:

This piddly little Castle wannabe isn't big enough for such an org, although it would work for a FZ-type operation.

Paul

Now, you really made me laugh. I can see you're trying to get me into defending the Church simply because I was interested in talking to someone about the possibility of getting back in. But, trying to compare a castle the Church purchased – which you call piddly – to the Freezone? Please show me a few of the buildings the Freezone has please.

No, I was curious about the report of a projected AO in Joburg, since I used to work in one at SH. Attack or defend as you wish. I'm not going to argue that the CofS doesn't have pots of money.

Paul
 
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