The Church’s latest offer – and why you should take it

[Megalomaniac]

And since the Church is doing so badly, how the hell did they get $40 million?

Hi Mason,

Welcome to the board. I have an answer and a question.

Over the past 5 years or so, I donated a total of around $65,000 to the Stevens Creek Org Ideal Org building fund. Over the past 20 years I have donated around $108,000 to the IAS. I did so voluntarily because I had wins in Scientology and I wanted to give back to something that had helped me. I never donated directly to the Super Power building, but obviously, it would have only required a few hundred people like me to raise the $40 million.

And though I donated willingly and had wins, my communication was suppressed by the Church of Scientology. This became increasingly burdensome to me. One part of the Church's effort to cut my communication was the cutting of my communication to those whom the Church had abused. I was unaware of such situations as Lisa Mcpherson, of coerced abortion in the Sea Org, and many others. It took me a long time to gain the courage to LOOK. Now that I have looked, I feel betrayed. I have tried to communicate the abuse I've recently learned of to other Scientologists in good standing. Those who I've talked to have generally not believed me and not looked for themselves. This is why the Church has not folded. Those people still in the Church do not trust those of us who have woken up to the abuse. I woke up and I stopped donating and started asking questions. So there is your answer.

Here is a question for you. I am not anonymous. My name is Mac Stevens. I posted my contact information on the internet. You can find me. You can write to me. You can call me. You can e-mail me. I'm not hiding. Who are you? You are either anonymous, or you have a name. What is your name? How can I talk to you directly?

Sorry, that was three questions.

 

[masonj]

I'm not even "complaining" about Scn and have no reason to "complain" about anything else. I am stating the facts so maybe I can stop someone else from being stupid enough to fall into the trap that I did. I wasted 15 years of my life and wouldn't wish what I endured on a rat.

The way you portray things makes it sound like "the Church" or people in it were more powerful than you and you were so weak that you couldn't stand up as an individual for what you felt was right when you were part of it. Even if that were true, it seems nutty to continue to grant so much power to them because you really just sound like you are complaining and making people wrong to make yourself look right. I think that the more you try and blame "the church" or others who you make responsible for you ending up where you ended up - evidently in a very unhappy state - the more you become the effect of them.

 

[Megalomaniac]

I think that the more you try and blame "the church" or others who you make responsible for you ending up where you ended up - evidently in a very unhappy state - the more you become the effect of them.

Laura is also (happily) not hiding.

Who are you?

 

[masonj]

The Church IS collapsing.

Don't be a sore loser. Anonymous is a failure.

I've been in, out and around Scientology for several decades and I've heard "the church is collapsing" party line again and again. But no matter who says it, from oppressive government agencies to anti-religionist kidnapping deprogrammers to the latest Anonymous anarchists who think that threatening YouTube videos, death threats and other stupidity is going to destroy a religion or the Church, it just never happen.

Which arrests would those be?

Wasn't Dimitriy Guzner one of the Anons you were ddosing the Church websites with way back in January? The Department of Justice didn't seem to think it was so funny when the tracked him down.

 

[Megalomaniac]

Don't be a sore loser. Anonymous is a failure.

Masonj, you are anonymous.

I'll repeat the question. What is your name?

 

[Dulloldfart]

Masonj, you are anonymous.

I'll repeat the question. What is your name?

Indeed. You wouldn't happen to be afraid to publish it, would you?

Paul

 

[Alanzo]

The way you portray things makes it sound like "the Church" or people in it were more powerful than you and you were so weak that you couldn't stand up as an individual for what you felt was right when you were part of it. Even if that were true, it seems nutty to continue to grant so much power to them because you really just sound like you are complaining and making people wrong to make yourself look right. I think that the more you try and blame "the church" or others who you make responsible for you ending up where you ended up - evidently in a very unhappy state - the more you become the effect of them.

Notice how the Scientology Personality can not confront or even see what is being said, but can only see the Hubbard-implanted distractions of "why" it is being said.

The Scientology Personality (SP) is a fascinating study in an artificial identity, installed and under the complete control of L Ron Hubbard.

Underneath this implanted identity, is the real person, the person who existed before Scientology. But that person was convinced that his real identity - the one he had been creating himself since birth - was a failure. And so he reached for and began to adopt and identify with the personality of "Scientologist" that Hubbard had created, fully defined, and sold him.

Now, so many years later, his true identity is buried underneath this artificial Scientology Personality.

He's in there still, whispering to you, Masonj.

He's the one who notices the outpoints, who sees the abuses, and who recognizes that Scientology turned out not to be the group you thought you were joining.

The Creed of the Church of Scientology, which you were first shown and which you first agreed with when you first joined, is not followed at all, is it, Masonj?

L Ron Hubbard was never blinded and crippled in WWII and he never cured himself with Dianetics, did he, Masonj?

When you first got yourself involved in Scientology so many years ago, and dreamed of Clear and OT, did you think you would end up here, doing this?

How are your credit card bills, Masonj? Are you really more free now that you have traveled up the the Bridge to Total Freedom, or less free than when you first adopted your Scientology Personality?

Think about it.

You're probably not reading this any more.

But others are.

And they are realizing that Scientology was not the group they joined.

And they are getting out and telling their stories on a worldwide public forum, where anyone - the fbi, law enforcement, journalists and many others - can read it and know what Scientology is really like.

Even if you can't, Masonj.

 

[DCAnon]

Don't be a sore loser. Anonymous is a failure.

I've been in, out and around Scientology for several decades and I've heard "the church is collapsing" party line again and again. But no matter who says it, from oppressive government agencies to anti-religionist kidnapping deprogrammers to the latest Anonymous anarchists who think that threatening YouTube videos, death threats and other stupidity is going to destroy a religion or the Church, it just never happen.


Wasn't Dimitriy Guzner one of the Anons you were ddosing the Church websites with way back in January? The Department of Justice didn't seem to think it was so funny when the tracked him down.

Lol, is he? I dunno anyone who knew him. I know "they" said he did something with a ddos, but was he a protester? And ddosing all those websites must mean hundreds if not thousands of people were involved, where are all of them? :< Or is that random dude in New Jersey magically responsible for it all? Lol, that would make him David, I'll bet. Supreme leader of Anonymous! Yay!! Honestly, you should have stuck with Epic Pubes Guy. He got arrested and I think he was a protester. Running around covered in hair is such a horrible act, don't you think? I saw the video, I was scarred for life. Now THAT was a real crime.

But you completely ignored all of my questions. I'm going to assume that either you can't confront it since you have no data to present as a counterargument, or you're afraid to confront it since you're worried there is no data to present as a counterargument. The best you'll be able to do is ad hom attacks, insults, and trying to derail the conversation? Oy, you're not a very good troll honey, you need to be more subtle! Pm me some time and I'll give you pointers.

But please, do confront and shatter me. I want you to start communicating with me about crimes. Actual documented crimes committed by people where they've been arrested and charged. Not allegations and threats. Here we go! My belief is that if you break the law, you go to jail. Whatshisface New Jersey dude ddos'd. Is it illegal? Most national security people in DC consider it to be a "cyber sit-in" (you can google the term for a full definition) and like other peaceful forms of protest and real life sit-ins of the 1960s, people sometimes get arrested for their civil disobedience. Plus, I totally gave you pubes guy, he's got slimey vandalizm all over him. They chose to break the law, they knew what they were doing, and they need to face the consequences. I think we're totally in agreement here!

What I am confused about is the scope and magnitude, not to mention the actual human suffering that has resulted from the crimes and convictions of Scientologists. Let me quote you back what I wrote.

Oh, you're not talking about the 11 Scientologists including Mary Sue Hubbard who were charged with conspiracy against the United States of America for wiretapping, espionage, and theft of confidential government documents, are you? Or that L. Ron Hubbard himself was arrested and convicted of theft in 1948 and in 1978, L Ron Hubbard was found guilty of fraud. He ran from the police and died in exile, a wanted criminal. Or that in 2005, Scientology staffer Gabriel Williams in Mountain View, California was convicted of rape and sexual assault of a minor. The Church of Scientology ordered young girls to live with him that he subsequently attacked and raped in excess of 100 times according to court documents. How about in 2003, Scientologist Reed Slatkin pled guilty to fraud in a massive ponzi scheme and was sentenced to 14 years in prison. What about in 2006 when Scientologist Michael Fitzgerald was arrested and charged with assault and battery for physically attacking a critic of Scientology in Clearwater, Florida. Oh, and you definitely can't be talking about in 2005 when Scientologist Artur Solomonyan who was brought into the United States via a Scientology religious workers visa was arrested for terrorism, smuggling weapons, and admitted to connections with Al Qaida. He was charged with terrorism and sentenced in March, 2009.

All of these people were arrested, charged with a crime, and went to prison. All of their court documents are public record and their crimes documented in credible news sources. I am confused why you're holding someone who flooded a website with traffic for a few hours on the same level as a convicted weapons smuggling terrorist and a child rapist? I mean, crimes are never okay, but I tend to believe that actual human suffering, especially that of children, is an inhumane act of utter evil. I've never seen any charge of terrorism against an Anon protester, but this weapons case where a Scientologist was caught trying to sell weapons for mass casualties and to destroy public buildings in the United States is terrifying. The Hubbards too, convicted of conspiracy and theft. I can't think of anything more traitorous than infiltrating, spying, and stealing classified documents against your own nation.

I believe that if you choose to commit a crime, you're choosing to accept the consequences. It goes for anyone, Anonymous, Scientologist, random guy jay walking or speeding to work. But why are the documented crimes committed by Scientologists so violent, dangerous, and perverted? Why are they crimes where actual human beings have suffered? I thought Scientologists were supposed to be the most ethical people on the planet, the ones we are supposed to look to who will bring us all to Clear. Why do they steal, assault, rape, spy, and support terrorism against my country?

I know it's just a waste of time typing this since you'll be either unable to communicate or try to distract the conversation from topics you're afraid to confront, but I thought it was worth a try. We're pulling for ya, honeypants!

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

The way you portray things makes it sound like "the Church" or people in it were more powerful than you and you were so weak that you couldn't stand up as an individual for what you felt was right when you were part of it. Even if that were true, it seems nutty to continue to grant so much power to them because you really just sound like you are complaining and making people wrong to make yourself look right. I think that the more you try and blame "the church" or others who you make responsible for you ending up where you ended up - evidently in a very unhappy state - the more you become the effect of them.

I see that you are ignoring the fact that the church actually does this kind of shit. Here you are pointing at DT as the cause of the problem.
Have you ever been in the Sea Org? Have you ever been surrounded by 2-3 people who all agree you are an out ethics piece of shit and scream at you. Have you ever been in this position with no one to go to for help with it?
It's called injustice to say the least and you know it happens in the "church" of Scientology. Which is supposed to have next to perfect justice standards.

 

[dt2000]

The way you portray things makes it sound like "the Church" or people in it were more powerful than you and you were so weak that you couldn't stand up as an individual for what you felt was right when you were part of it. Even if that were true, it seems nutty to continue to grant so much power to them because you really just sound like you are complaining and making people wrong to make yourself look right. I think that the more you try and blame "the church" or others who you make responsible for you ending up where you ended up - evidently in a very unhappy state - the more you become the effect of them.

You know, when I first started confronting what had actually happened while I was in the Sea Org and what Scn actually was/is doing, I had the same view as you.

I didn't want to post my "story" as I felt like I didn't feel like a "victim" or whatever. ETA --- And I still do not feel like a victim. Those things happened. I was part of it. I thought it was "all ok" and the "greatest good". I am not going pretend that I had nothing to do with it, no one held a gun to my head forcing me to do things. BUT, the actions taken by people within the cos did contribute to things that I did or that happened to me. THAT is what needs to change.

IF you are no longer a Scientologist (which I doubt), you need to step back and look at how you are programmed to think. Most people on this planet don't think that way.

By the way, who said I was unhappy???? I haven't said that anywhere. Quite the contrary.

 

[Megalomaniac]

Underneath this implanted identity, is the real person, the person who existed before Scientology. But that person was convinced that his real identity - the one he had been creating himself since birth - was a failure. And so he reached for and began to adopt and identify with the personality of "Scientologist" that Hubbard had created, fully defined, and sold him.

Now, so many years later, his true identity is buried underneath this artificial Scientology Personality.

He's in there still, whispering to you, Masonj.

He's the one who notices the outpoints, who sees the abuses, and who recognizes that Scientology turned out not to be the group you thought you were joining.

My little Armadillo buddy sees right through your meany facade.

But you completely ignored all of my questions.

Flunk on TR2, Masonj.

We're pulling for ya, honeypants!

But, DC still loves you anyways, Honeypants!

I see that you are ignoring the fact that the church actually does this kind of shit. ... It's called injustice to say the least and you know it happens in the "church" of Scientology.

Yep. Fix that and we won't be so poopy pants about the deal.

By the way, who said I was unhappy???? I haven't said that anywhere. Quite the contrary.

 

[Tiger Lily]

Notice how the Scientology Personality can not confront or even see what is being said, but can only see the Hubbard-implanted distractions of "why" it is being said.

The Scientology Personality (SP) is a fascinating study in an artificial identity, installed and under the complete control of L Ron Hubbard.

Underneath this implanted identity, is the real person, the person who existed before Scientology. But that person was convinced that his real identity - the one he had been creating himself since birth - was a failure. And so he reached for and began to adopt and identify with the personality of "Scientologist" that Hubbard had created, fully defined, and sold him.

Now, so many years later, his true identity is buried underneath this artificial Scientology Personality.

He's in there still, whispering to you, Masonj.

He's the one who notices the outpoints, who sees the abuses, and who recognizes that Scientology turned out not to be the group you thought you were joining.

The Creed of the Church of Scientology, which you were first shown and which you first agreed with when you first joined, is not followed at all, is it, Masonj?

L Ron Hubbard was never blinded and crippled in WWII and he never cured himself with Dianetics, did he, Masonj?

When you first got yourself involved in Scientology so many years ago, and dreamed of Clear and OT, did you think you would end up here, doing this?

How are your credit card bills, Masonj? Are you really more free now that you have traveled up the the Bridge to Total Freedom, or less free than when you first adopted your Scientology Personality?

Think about it.

You're probably not reading this any more.

But others are.

And they are realizing that Scientology was not the group they joined.

And they are getting out and telling their stories on a worldwide public forum, where anyone - the fbi, law enforcement, journalists and many others - can read it and know what Scientology is really like.

Even if you can't, Masonj.

I think that nails it.

I was watching Jason Beghe 's interview on Youtube (the long 2+ hour one from xenutv-- worth every minute, if you don't mind the "f" word 3 times in a sentence. (actually his use of it is quite entertaining; then I saw him addressing the German Government, all conservative, articulate, well spoken -- not a hint of an off-color word; like he turned a switch.))

He talks about this exact thing -- the "Scientology" personality -- the artificial identity that LRH controls. I had to look up at the screen to make sure that wasn't you talking!

TL

 

[Carmel]

Not only in America!

A good post, and one that's about something we should all be aware of so we don't fall prey to it. This is actually happening, and it can and/or does affect us all, so it would be smart to take note!

Thanks for posting this, fishdaddy - Bump!

If the Church of Scientology were a person, they would be in the ER right now on life support. In an effort to staunch the internal bleeding, they are making an unprecedented offer to some select Ex-Int Base staff members. We’ll cancel your Freeloader Debt! We’ll cancel your SP declare! All you have to do is disconnect from the “Bad SPs.” People like Marc Headley, Jason Begue, Mark Rathbun. And me.

I bet you didn’t know there are “Good SPs” and “Bad SPs.” Well, there are. In fact, there are many classes of SP. And it’s important that these different classes of SP not communicate with each other.

Management SPs: These are the people who have been “declared SP” but are not permitted to leave the Int Base. People like Guillaume Lesevre, Marc Yager, Heber Jentsch and a reported 40 or 50 others. They stay in the “SP Hall” – for years. Of course, they can’t communicate to other SPs.

Tame SPs: These are the people who, although declared SP, are “working on their A to E steps” and paying off their Freeloader Debt. They are quiet, compliant, and don’t make waves. And they even do certain chores, like spying on other SPs and reporting to OSA.

Good SPs: They aren’t necessarily doing their A to E steps, and they are not paying their Freeloader debt, but at least they don’t speak out and they don’t make waves. They are quiet. They may read the chat groups and internet sites, but they don’t post under their own names. They don’t make any trouble for the Church, at least not openly. They are nice and quiet.

Bad SPs: These are the ones that make trouble. They write about their experiences on the inside. They reveal the abuse, the lies, the fraud. They talk to others. They post. They demonstrate. They speak out. They are not quiet.

Well, the Church is desperate. So desperate that they now have Tommy Davis, the Golden Boy, the Church’s “top PR,” working full time on a campaign to get the “Good SPs” to disconnect from the “Bad SPs.” The offer is irresistible – they will cancel your Freeloader Debt. They will fast-track you’re A to E steps. Just think – you’ll be able to talk to your family again!!! All you have to do is disconnect from Headley, Rathbun, et. al.

And if you don’t? Well, your family members on the inside will get into trouble. Sorry about that. They will get demoted, assigned to menial tasks, assigned to deck work, maybe even RPFed. Now, you wouldn’t want that to happen to your family members, would you?

We hear that Scientologists are “masters of communication.” And ain’t it the truth? Communication as a weapon of control. “You want to talk to your family? Toe the line. You don’t want to cooperate? Good, your family will disappear into a slave gulag.” That’s right, masters of communication, in the tradition of a Hitler or a Stalin.

So okay, you say, the deal sounds great. What’s next? Well, you take a meeting with them. It’s you on one side of the table and four or five of them on the other. And you get grilled. Who are you in communication with? What do you know about Headley? They will pump you for information. And don’t be surprised if they have a printout of your Facebook page, highlighting those you have to disconnect from. Or a printout of your website or blog, with “suggestions” as to what you should delete or change. Oh, yes, they’ve done their homework, like good little spies.

And if you take the deal? No more freeloader debt. No more SP declare. You can talk to your family. You can “move up the Bridge.”

A few things they just might not relay to you:

That Freeloader Debt? It’s bogus and unenforceable anyway. They lose nothing by cancelling it.

Your “progress up the Bridge?” DM will make sure you are never allowed on the “OT Levels.”

And your communication with your family? Well, your letters will still be censored and your phone calls covertly monitored. Of course. And they STILL won’t be able to get time off to visit you.

Details, details. Other than that, it’s a great deal, right?

There are also a few things we don’t need to tell them:

The “Good” SPs and the “Bad” SPs have one thing in common – they all hate David Miscavige and think he is crazy. They disagree with the abuse, lies and fraud. Just because the “Good SPs” are nice and quiet doesn’t mean that they are blind, deaf and dumb. They know the score. So all of this “getting you back in touch with your family” is a double-edged sword. It puts Scientologists and staff in touch with people who have seen behind the curtain. But let’s not tell them that. They will try to control the communication line so no one inside finds out the truth of what really goes on at the Int Base. All I can say is good luck with that.

So it’s a great deal, right? Should you take it?

Well, that’s up to you. If it gets you back in touch with your family, okay. If it helps you get them OUT, even better.

But realize that any deal the Church makes with you is designed to benefit them, not to benefit you or your family. Any deal has as its purpose to control you and your family members. To keep you in line. To keep you quiet and compliant. Realize that your family connections are being used to blackmail you into submission. That’s what disconnection is all about. Control.

They think they can control you by withholding and granting communication with your family.

Well, can they?

 

[Mystic]

If the Church of Scientology were a person, they would be in the ER right now on life support. In an effort to staunch the internal bleeding, they are making an unprecedented offer to some select Ex-Int Base staff members. We’ll cancel your Freeloader Debt! We’ll cancel your SP declare! All you have to do is disconnect from the “Bad SPs.” People like Marc Headley, Jason Begue, Mark Rathbun. And me.

I bet you didn’t know there are “Good SPs” and “Bad SPs.” Well, there are. In fact, there are many classes of SP. And it’s important that these different classes of SP not communicate with each other.

Management SPs: These are the people who have been “declared SP” but are not permitted to leave the Int Base. People like Guillaume Lesevre, Marc Yager, Heber Jentsch and a reported 40 or 50 others. They stay in the “SP Hall” – for years. Of course, they can’t communicate to other SPs.

Tame SPs: These are the people who, although declared SP, are “working on their A to E steps” and paying off their Freeloader Debt. They are quiet, compliant, and don’t make waves. And they even do certain chores, like spying on other SPs and reporting to OSA.

Good SPs: They aren’t necessarily doing their A to E steps, and they are not paying their Freeloader debt, but at least they don’t speak out and they don’t make waves. They are quiet. They may read the chat groups and internet sites, but they don’t post under their own names. They don’t make any trouble for the Church, at least not openly. They are nice and quiet.

Bad SPs: These are the ones that make trouble. They write about their experiences on the inside. They reveal the abuse, the lies, the fraud. They talk to others. They post. They demonstrate. They speak out. They are not quiet.

Well, the Church is desperate. So desperate that they now have Tommy Davis, the Golden Boy, the Church’s “top PR,” working full time on a campaign to get the “Good SPs” to disconnect from the “Bad SPs.” The offer is irresistible – they will cancel your Freeloader Debt. They will fast-track you’re A to E steps. Just think – you’ll be able to talk to your family again!!! All you have to do is disconnect from Headley, Rathbun, et. al.

And if you don’t? Well, your family members on the inside will get into trouble. Sorry about that. They will get demoted, assigned to menial tasks, assigned to deck work, maybe even RPFed. Now, you wouldn’t want that to happen to your family members, would you?

We hear that Scientologists are “masters of communication.” And ain’t it the truth? Communication as a weapon of control. “You want to talk to your family? Toe the line. You don’t want to cooperate? Good, your family will disappear into a slave gulag.” That’s right, masters of communication, in the tradition of a Hitler or a Stalin.

So okay, you say, the deal sounds great. What’s next? Well, you take a meeting with them. It’s you on one side of the table and four or five of them on the other. And you get grilled. Who are you in communication with? What do you know about Headley? They will pump you for information. And don’t be surprised if they have a printout of your Facebook page, highlighting those you have to disconnect from. Or a printout of your website or blog, with “suggestions” as to what you should delete or change. Oh, yes, they’ve done their homework, like good little spies.

And if you take the deal? No more freeloader debt. No more SP declare. You can talk to your family. You can “move up the Bridge.”

A few things they just might not relay to you:

That Freeloader Debt? It’s bogus and unenforceable anyway. They lose nothing by cancelling it.

Your “progress up the Bridge?” DM will make sure you are never allowed on the “OT Levels.”

And your communication with your family? Well, your letters will still be censored and your phone calls covertly monitored. Of course. And they STILL won’t be able to get time off to visit you.

Details, details. Other than that, it’s a great deal, right?

There are also a few things we don’t need to tell them:

The “Good” SPs and the “Bad” SPs have one thing in common – they all hate David Miscavige and think he is crazy. They disagree with the abuse, lies and fraud. Just because the “Good SPs” are nice and quiet doesn’t mean that they are blind, deaf and dumb. They know the score. So all of this “getting you back in touch with your family” is a double-edged sword. It puts Scientologists and staff in touch with people who have seen behind the curtain. But let’s not tell them that. They will try to control the communication line so no one inside finds out the truth of what really goes on at the Int Base. All I can say is good luck with that.

So it’s a great deal, right? Should you take it?

Well, that’s up to you. If it gets you back in touch with your family, okay. If it helps you get them OUT, even better.

But realize that any deal the Church makes with you is designed to benefit them, not to benefit you or your family. Any deal has as its purpose to control you and your family members. To keep you in line. To keep you quiet and compliant. Realize that your family connections are being used to blackmail you into submission. That’s what disconnection is all about. Control.

They think they can control you by withholding and granting communication with your family.

Well, can they?

Oh oh oh oh oh oh so so so very very very well said!!!!!! Ye hiteth nail directly upon head