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The Church - a short story set in the near future

Mary

Patron with Honors
Rabid irrational, criticism is very different from noticing and analyzing outpoints.

Underlying rabid, irrational criticism one would find overts and witholds. But that is not the case with someone simply observing and analyzing outpoints. The latter would simply be a natural application of the Data Series.

Attempt to discourage the use of Data Series by equating it with rabid, irrational criticism is a big outpoint itself, and that would indicate the presence of misunderstoods, overts, and witholds on the part of those who are trying to discourage.

If CoS has outpoints in their activities then these must be pointed out, with a view to eradicating them.

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Hi Vinaire,

Thank you so much for your comments. Funny enough, one of the last courses I did in Scn was the Professional Data Series Evaluators Course. So I think I understand what you mean.

Did you also do this course or a similiar one based on the Data Series? I suspect that the checksheet for mine was not written by LRH as it was uniquely different from other checksheets I've done.

It was whilst doing the Evaluation drills that I really started to notice glaring outpoints (also some in-points) in the organisation and specifically, the upper management. The outpoints (which I won't go into here) were very fundamentally opposed to the product of orgs, that is; 'freed beings".

I knew I could not write down in my drills what I was actually looking at. Knowing that I would get into serious ethics trouble for reporting, recording or even thinking my observations was probably one of the most obvious and biggest outpoints of all.

I also got done about half of the Org Exec courses. I was not a staff member and was doing these courses as public. Having been in Scn for 25 years or more, having done a lot of courses and having been on OTVII for the last 12 years and thoroughly Golden Age of Tech trained to-boot. I must say that I was very seriously shocked at myself for being so stupid and downright irresponsible as to have not-ised these mega, out-and-out, glaringly obvious outpoints. I could not pull the string without saying heresy. I realised that I had sheepishly agreed or allowed these things to continue without saying a bloody dicky-bird to anyone about it - I was in treason to myself and to anyone who wished to achieve spiritual knowledge and spiritual freedom.

Mary.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Hi Vinaire,

Thank you so much for your comments. Funny enough, one of the last courses I did in Scn was the Professional Data Series Evaluators Course. So I think I understand what you mean.

Did you also do this course or a similiar one based on the Data Series? I suspect that the checksheet for mine was not written by LRH as it was uniquely different from other checksheets I've done.

It was whilst doing the Evaluation drills that I really started to notice glaring outpoints (also some in-points) in the organisation and specifically, the upper management. The outpoints (which I won't go into here) were very fundamentally opposed to the product of orgs, that is; 'freed beings".

I knew I could not write down in my drills what I was actually looking at. Knowing that I would get into serious ethics trouble for reporting, recording or even thinking my observations was probably one of the most obvious and biggest outpoints of all.

I also got done about half of the Org Exec courses. I was not a staff member and was doing these courses as public. Having been in Scn for 25 years or more, having done a lot of courses and having been on OTVII for the last 12 years and thoroughly Golden Age of Tech trained to-boot. I must say that I was very seriously shocked at myself for being so stupid and downright irresponsible as to have not-ised these mega, out-and-out, glaringly obvious outpoints. I could not pull the string without saying heresy. I realised that I had sheepishly agreed or allowed these things to continue without saying a bloody dicky-bird to anyone about it - I was in treason to myself and to anyone who wished to achieve spiritual knowledge and spiritual freedom.

Mary.

Hi Mary,

I did my DSEC Course on Flagship Apollo in 1973 on the very first checksheet written for DSEC by Mary Sue. I then evaluated for the Management/Programs Bu. I was more interested in evaluating new areas to start Scientology in. Diana Hubbard was my mentor for a while.

To me DSEC Tech is the ultimate tech to free oneself from fixed ideas and self-invalidations after going clear. That is what I have used instead of OT Levels. It requires total honesty with oneself. One can then sleep like a baby.

Just for practice, I would love to do some mini-evals on situations brought to light on this forum. I would like you to join in too just for fun.

Love,
Vinaire

.
 

Mary

Patron with Honors
Many people would be intrigued to learn more about your time on the Apollo.

The mini-evals on situations brought to light on this forum is a terrific idea.

I think it would be really interesting to have a new thread on each of those items.

Mary.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Just for practice, I would love to do some mini-evals on situations brought to light on this forum. I would like you to join in too just for fun.

Love,
Vinaire

.

Vinaire,

I would love to see an eval on the state of Clear. Not because you brought it up on another thread. Just to see.

The state of Clear and it's constantly changing definition on C/S lines (Yes, I was a C/S on OT Elig lines so I know from where I speak) was one of the things that pushed me over the edge...
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Vinaire,

I would love to see an eval on the state of Clear. Not because you brought it up on another thread. Just to see.

The state of Clear and it's constantly changing definition on C/S lines (Yes, I was a C/S on OT Elig lines so I know from where I speak) was one of the things that pushed me over the edge...

Thats a damn good idea. There was once posted more than 50 defs from LRH.
I'll see if I can dig them up.
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
Vinaire,

I would love to see an eval on the state of Clear. Not because you brought it up on another thread. Just to see.

The state of Clear and it's constantly changing definition on C/S lines (Yes, I was a C/S on OT Elig lines so I know from where I speak) was one of the things that pushed me over the edge...

What's your take on it, Bea? I'd be interested to know given your experience in the area.
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
Thats a damn good idea. There was once posted more than 50 defs from LRH.
I'll see if I can dig them up.

Terril, please don't! :)

When I was first trying to sort this out my head was spinning with "mest clears", "theta clears", "schmeta clears" (Alanzo's one I think :) )

I adopted the stable datum that the definition: "a being who no longer has his own reactive mind" was definitive. Any definition that was given before The Clearing Course has to be a little suspect, doesn't it?
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Terril, please don't! :)

When I was first trying to sort this out my head was spinning with "mest clears", "theta clears", "schmeta clears" (Alanzo's one I think :) )

I adopted the stable datum that the definition: "a being who no longer has his own reactive mind" was definitive. Any definition that was given before The Clearing Course has to be a little suspect, doesn't it?

I'm for adopting 'a being who doesn't have a unicorn in his hip-pocket'

It's more all-inclusive....

Zinj
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Terril, please don't! :)

When I was first trying to sort this out my head was spinning with "mest clears", "theta clears", "schmeta clears" (Alanzo's one I think :) )

I adopted the stable datum that the definition: "a being who no longer has his own reactive mind" was definitive. Any definition that was given before The Clearing Course has to be a little suspect, doesn't it?

I'm for adopting 'a being who doesn't have a unicorn in his hip-pocket'

It's more all-inclusive....
Maybe

Zinj
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Vinaire,

I would love to see an eval on the state of Clear. Not because you brought it up on another thread. Just to see.

The state of Clear and it's constantly changing definition on C/S lines (Yes, I was a C/S on OT Elig lines so I know from where I speak) was one of the things that pushed me over the edge...

OK. Let me give you some data (as summarized by L. Kin) first. Then I shall present my conclusions in the end:



When one has completed one’s case, one would not be fixated on one’s first universe problems and masses but be extroverted and find one’s games and problems in the third universe. At this stage one could not have further case gain through auditing (as there isn’t any case left), but would have one’s gains in life by the application of ethics, tech and admin know-how. One would demonstrate competence observably, i.e. in the third universe (Dn Ax. 194).

The end result, in the words of Hubbard: ‘A qualitative return of confidence in self, not quantitative handling of bank.” (HCOB 7.4.60). “Certainty in all three universes (. . .). “ (Fac. 28). ‘A person who is at cause over his own reactive bank and can create and uncreate it at will “ (Ability, March 59) . “He finally winds up without a reactive bank and he’s happy about it because he can mock one up anytime he wants, but he doesn’t have to now. (. . .) Its a horrible truth that people - through irresponsibility - mocked up all of their own difficulties” (Clearing Congress 1958, video tape 6).

How much bridge does it take to perform such a rehabilitation to its end phenomenon? - This is different from person to person. It depends on how much the thetan actually considers himself identified with masses.

When Hubbard originally formulated the sentences above, he was referring to the state of Clear. We are saying, though, that the end of the bridge is “Case Completion” rather than “Clear”. So what does that mean? And what happened to the much-rumored “OT”?

With these questions we wind up right in the middle of the confusion of terms and concepts regarding this subject. What does Clear really mean? And OT? This is hard to answer in one word, because there has been a confusing number of definitions of Clear between 1950 and 1978 and a change in the definition of “reactive bank”. The definition of “OT” became increasingly shallow. It is not easy to find one’s way through this, but we may at least try. (This is not a “merely historical” easy, by the way, but a very practical one: because without a goal you can’t guide, and guiding is the auditor’s task; so he must know his goal.)

Let us take an unhurried look, then, at the development of the concepts in question. In “Dianetics” we find: ‘A clear (noun) is an individual who, as a result of dianetic therapy, has neither active nor potential psycho-somatic illness or aberration” (p. 170). “There are no demon circuits in his mind (. . .)” (p. 171). “In a clear; the entire content (of the reactive bank) is removed” (p. 174). “Cells, not the individual, are evidenced to record pain. And the reactive engram bank is composed only of cells. (. . .) The engram is not a memory; it is a cellular trace of recordings impinged deeply into the very structure of the body itself’ (p. 128). -This is how Hubbard sees the Clear and the reactive bank in 1950. The thetan does not exist under this name yet. He is called “I” or “basic personality”. The thetan himself does not make pictures; they press in on him from the body only and impede his natural rationality.

“History of Man” (1952, abbreviated HOM), “Scientology 8-8008” (1953, abbr. 8-8008) and “Creation of Human Ability” (1954, abbr. COHA) all circle around the same thought: how does one manage to make the thetan come out of his body? Since HOM the thetan exists under this name. As the result of dianetic therapy he has become a “Mest Clear” and sticks to his body as if glued in. Apart from Mest Clear he is as well called Homo Novis. What’s wrong with him? “This homo novis is limited in his self-determinism by all the economic and social restrictions of an aberrated society. He is not free of food, clothing or shelter He dies when you get him too cold, he perishes when the oxygen content drops too low. He is living in a tolerance band which keeps him cramped to the face of one second-rate planet in a tenth rate system, prey to all the ill will that blows. Is this being free and self-determined?” (HOM, p. 38.)Therefore the motto: “The goal (. . .) is OPERATING THETAN, a higher goal than earlier procedures.” (8-8008, p. 115.)

This higher goal is called Theta Clear: ‘A being who is reasonably stable outside the body (. . .).” (8-8008, Glossary.) Above that there is yet another higher goal, the Cleared Theta Clear: ‘A person (. . .) who is able to create illusions perceivable by others at will, to handle MEST universe objects without mechanical means and to have and feel no need of bodies or even the MEST universe to keep himself and his friends interested in existence. “ (8-8008, p. 114.)

In order to attain these things it seemed advisable to catapult the thetan out of his body instead of auditing a sheer endless quantity of entities one by one. “These entities run off their own past deaths, on other tracks (. . .). They are actually the basis of “demon circuits” (as covered in DIANETICS: THE MODERN SCIENCE OF MENTAL HEALTH) (. . .). “ (HOM, p. 14.) “The THETA BEING is the principal target of the auditor. (. . .) The main thing wrong with any preclear is that he cannot disentangle himself from entities and somatic entities, from demon circuits and mest bodies.” (HOM, p. 37.)

[To be continued...]
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Interesting outtake so far Vinaire. Thank you!

I would, if you please, rather enjoy a brief dessertation on the outpoints and pluspoints regarding specifically the State of Clear. As in a being who no longer has his own reactive mind (his OWN, still has others, right?). Specifically reagrding their thinking, free-will to think and decide, their behavior in life, including work, with family. How does one attaining the State of Clear then act in life? And is that improvement over their past existence? Does it change with training or are the results consistent.

Its all fine and dandy to write the Clear Cog and print it on red and white. But we (I) perfer tangeable results.

I am not saying I do not beleive. Maybe I do, maybe I dont. That is not the point. I am just asking what the results of such research would show. (Granted it would be hard because 80% of the Clear folders I went through when I was a C/S were determined not Clear, even though they had attested to attaining it. So many people think they are clear and they are not, per the current definition (as per when I was last on post as a C/S, in 2004).

Good luck. I would really like any further input you may have on this. Thank you!

(oh - and maybe the difference in a Clear in current orgs - current management and past time periods. It, like the definition, probably changed fr the worse the more up to present time you come).
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Interesting outtake so far Vinaire. Thank you!

I would, if you please, rather enjoy a brief dessertation on the outpoints and pluspoints regarding specifically the State of Clear. As in a being who no longer has his own reactive mind (his OWN, still has others, right?). Specifically reagrding their thinking, free-will to think and decide, their behavior in life, including work, with family. How does one attaining the State of Clear then act in life? And is that improvement over their past existence? Does it change with training or are the results consistent.

Its all fine and dandy to write the Clear Cog and print it on red and white. But we (I) perfer tangeable results.

I am not saying I do not beleive. Maybe I do, maybe I dont. That is not the point. I am just asking what the results of such research would show. (Granted it would be hard because 80% of the Clear folders I went through when I was a C/S were determined not Clear, even though they had attested to attaining it. So many people think they are clear and they are not, per the current definition (as per when I was last on post as a C/S, in 2004).

Good luck. I would really like any further input you may have on this. Thank you!

(oh - and maybe the difference in a Clear in current orgs - current management and past time periods. It, like the definition, probably changed fr the worse the more up to present time you come).

My personal take is that the ultimate State of Clear (postulated in Book 1) is beyond OT. The various states of Clear along the way were simply the mileposts at various stages of development.

This is only a Data series viewpoint and not a technical viewpoint.

.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
VINAIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT!!!!!!!!!! Yes. The State of Clear IS beyond OT. At least OT VII. Because up to that level, you are STILL working on Clearing. Clearing. Clearing. Clearing. Clearing. etc etc etc. wow.

But as far as "Own reactive mind" that one is before OT I. I know that for sure. I am just wondering honestly about an eval on the subject.
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
VINAIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT!!!!!!!!!! Yes. The State of Clear IS beyond OT. At least OT VII. Because up to that level, you are STILL working on Clearing. Clearing. Clearing. Clearing. Clearing. etc etc etc. wow.

But as far as "Own reactive mind" that one is before OT I. I know that for sure. I am just wondering honestly about an eval on the subject.

I hate to dampen anyones states, but I doubt if there is anyone on this planet who does not have a reactive mind.

I went "clear" on 6 July 1966, I was "clear 8" - prior to that I had received at least 5,000 hours of in the chair processing.

Much of it GPM Processing. A few hundred hours of Objectives, etc. Plus I turned all my athletic drills into Objective Processes.

I was also able to set up my days so that they also acted as a series of life processes.

The life processes were vastly superior to head processes as they confronted the force and charge of life.

Long ago I realized there were two types of processes: A Negative Process or a Positive Process.

A Negative Process processes you down scale.

A Positive Process processes you upscale.

Own Goals processing were for the most part positive processes.

Roughly in mid June 1964 Scio went almost completely negative.

This was not much of a problem to me as I ran a Positive Process life.

When you run Positive Processes the Negative turns on - When you run Negative Processes only more Negativity turns on.

Interestingly the Positive Processes uncover much more Dominating Types of Games and Identities Packages. This is just a layer that blocks the more loving, caring, honorable and harmonious Games and Identities.

This is ALL clearing type processing.

Alan
________
 
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Vinaire

Sponsor
VINAIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT!!!!!!!!!! Yes. The State of Clear IS beyond OT. At least OT VII. Because up to that level, you are STILL working on Clearing. Clearing. Clearing. Clearing. Clearing. etc etc etc. wow.

But as far as "Own reactive mind" that one is before OT I. I know that for sure. I am just wondering honestly about an eval on the subject.

To evaluate, one needs to first work out the Ideal Scene of Clear, and to determine that one must first ask oneself,

"What is the purpose of Clearing?"

One would then have to work out also:

"What is it that one is clearing out, and from what?

Make sure you keep an eye out for FIXED IDEAS.

.
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
To evaluate, one needs to first work out the Ideal Scene of Clear, and to determine that one must first ask oneself,

"What is the purpose of Clearing?"

One would then have to work out also:

"What is it that one is clearing out, and from what?

Make sure you keep an eye out for FIXED IDEAS.

Perhaps one should begin by fully holographically defining the word "CLEAR."

I have found in most instances by fully holographically defining the word - you get a holographic ideal scene.
 
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Bea Kiddo

Crusader
We seem to be going back to the ancient process "Neti, neti" of The Vedas.

.

Please clue me in in laymans terms on this!!! I am clueless on other religons (born and raised in Scn and unfamiliar with other religions - to a degree).

----

Alan, I think that either me or you is mixing up the difference between Clear and Native State. I dont think they were meant to be one and the same.
 
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