The Current State of Co$ finances

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
I've been saying for a while that I don't believe the billion in reserves figure anymore. I thought that it was dated information, and have shared how I calculated Davey Mismanage's ability to make a billion disappear within a few years. But I've admitted that I offer the calculations as a business person only, and have no dox.

Today I saw the closest thing that I've ever seen to dox.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/06/scientology_robert_white.php#more

Specifically, I'm referring to comments of the week - this one is from Mat Pesch.

I was the Treasury Secretary of the FSO (Flag Service Organization) in Clearwater from 1995 to 2002. The FSO brings in more money per week than the rest of Scientology combined. By 2002 our cash reserves had gone from around $25 million to under $1 million. I called the Treasury of the hundred largest churches and found almost one for one that they were in financial ruin. By 2002 Sea Org Reserves had been reduced from over $400 million to less than $20 million in cash.

At the same time the FSO alone owed over $400 million in undelivered services. By 2002 the FSO was returning about $100,000 a week to members resigning from the church.

There is still the outstanding question of how much does the RTC have and where is it? And how much money did Slappy launder to offshore accounts and why? We know that the money laundering and "squirrelling" away of large amounts of money in Curacao has been going on for a while thanks to the anons (see http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?23805-Follow-The-Money-Virginia-Mcclaughry).

As I said last night in another thread, it doesn't make sense for Slappy to buy up buildings and let them get foreclosed, looted, seized, or burn down in mysterious fires. It doesn't make sense for Slappy to risk his coveted IRS status by playing chicken with refunds. Known income versus known expenditures (or estimated expenditures) have made it easy to infer (for me, anyway) that the Co$ is in very serious trouble.

Whether der Dwarfenfuhrer would be willing to tap the offshore reserves to run the Co$ remains to be seen. Personally, I think it's his "retirement fund" for when he does the Bulgravian Boogie.

I, for one, believe that we're quite deep into the end game and think we should start placing bets as to the date of demise. I'm not talking about when the "tech" will die out (I don't think it will for a very long time with the Indies and Freezone to carry that) - I'm talking about the date that the organized Co$ will end. The word "imminent" comes to mind when I look at the whole picture.
 

Freeminds

Bitter defrocked apostate
Agree with everything until your last paragraph.

The 'Indies' aren't all that independent, are they? They only recruit by 'ambulance chasing' among the people who leave Cof$, not in the real world. They never built an eMeter of their own. They don't have a publishing house, nor very much to publish (unless for some reason you value the ramblings of Captain Bill Robertson).

The idea that the 'Tech' will survive in the Cheapzone community after the downfall of the Corporate Scientology Cult has yet to be proved. I suppose it depends how you define Scientology. After all, a Cheapzoner has no Tech-gestapo hanging over them, ready to prohibit squirreling. By definition, any attempt to 'do' Scientology outside of the Corporate Cult is squirreling - as will be any real attempt to Get Scientology Working, or make Scientology acceptable to modern society. If you remove stalking & harassment, the RPF, crush reging, sec checks... have you still got Scientology?

Well, maybe, for a short while... but if there's nobody to stop people talking about their 'case', it won't take very long for everybody to realize that nobody got anything special out of Hubbardism. After the end of the 'Church' of Scientology, I reckon that the number of people venerating poor, mad old L Ron Hubbard would number less than five hundred within a couple of years.
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Freeminds, I think you read a little much into that tech surviving Co$ comment. What I mean is that the tech will be around in some form or other past the demise of the Co$. How long it will take to "Clear the planet" of the tech remains to be seen. Since the cheapzone & M&M show aren't the perfect storm of self-destructive behavior like the Co$, I'm certainly not going to make predictions on that.

And to be honest, if my friend told me tomorrow that he left the Co$ and was auditing with Marty, I would be happy. I wouldn't become an Indie myself, but I would be thrilled to have him dissociate from the Co$ even if he did still use the tech.
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Also, one other thing. I'm not referring to "the tech" as LRH's entire body of work. To me, if someone is still reading DMSMH and having Dianetics parties, that indicates survival of tech. Maybe it would be more fair to refer to that as "some tech" rather than "the tech" or "tech," which some might read as the entire body of LRH's bullshit.

The tech as a whole probably wouldn't survive very long. But I suspect we'll hear about some of the lower bridge stuff for a long time to come. That was ripped off from legitimate therapy and is, in some ways, helpful to people.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Agree with everything until your last paragraph.

The 'Indies' aren't all that independent, are they? They only recruit by 'ambulance chasing' among the people who leave Cof$, not in the real world. They never built an eMeter of their own. They don't have a publishing house, nor very much to publish (unless for some reason you value the ramblings of Captain Bill Robertson).

The idea that the 'Tech' will survive in the Cheapzone community after the downfall of the Corporate Scientology Cult has yet to be proved. I suppose it depends how you define Scientology. After all, a Cheapzoner has no Tech-gestapo hanging over them, ready to prohibit squirreling. By definition, any attempt to 'do' Scientology outside of the Corporate Cult is squirreling - as will be any real attempt to Get Scientology Working, or make Scientology acceptable to modern society. If you remove stalking & harassment, the RPF, crush reging, sec checks... have you still got Scientology?

Well, maybe, for a short while... but if there's nobody to stop people talking about their 'case', it won't take very long for everybody to realize that nobody got anything special out of Hubbardism. After the end of the 'Church' of Scientology, I reckon that the number of people venerating poor, mad old L Ron Hubbard would number less than five hundred within a couple of years.

I'm sure you're right. Numbers are dropping, and most of the people who are leaving the Cof$ will be doing what most of the people here have done - just quietly walking away, and getting on with life in the real world. Contrary to Dr Terril Park's PR statements, there's no reason to believe that "Marty is getting people out of the Church" or that Marty is even any kind of significant rallying point. Most of the people who end up at Marty's Ra Ra Ron page will be people who typed the word 'Scientology' into google. After that will come people who've been out for quite a while, who are curious about what's going on in the Scino world. After them come Marty's addled old codgers who want to pray to Ron in a public place and mouth off about Miscavige. After them come the people who are actively taking services, and I doubt that they are more than about 20 people. So Independent Scientology doesn't add up to being a 'movement', or even a group in any real sense.

And then there is the ludicrous Freezone... I won't even comment.

I expect to see more and more Orgs closing their doors from lack of staff, and then it's game over really.


 

Terril park

Sponsor
The idea that the 'Tech' will survive in the Cheapzone community after the downfall of the Corporate Scientology Cult has yet to be proved. .

This is nonsense. The Freezone has had much attack from COS especially since 1982, a main point being the 10 year legal battle against David Mayo
and the closing of all affiliated AACs.

We still can get hit for trademark or copyright violations, and thus its almost impossible for the FZ to be high ranking on a google of
" Scientology". Despite that the FZ has been continuosly growing and expanding and is now bigger than ever and would grow even faster if CO$
were not there.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
The 'Indies' aren't all that independent, are they? They only recruit by 'ambulance chasing' among the people who leave Cof$, not in the real world. They never built an eMeter of their own. They don't have a publishing house, nor very much to publish (unless for some reason you value the ramblings of Captain Bill Robertson).

There are several non-CofS meters, and have been for years. Barry Penberthy's Ability meters, Ralph Hilton's C-meters, the Mindwalker, Hank Levin's Clarity Meters, the Russian Theta Meter, and more. And the CofS still doesn't even have a computer-based meter, which have existed in the field for what, ten years now?

Not much to publish? True.

Paul
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
David Mayo is not a Scientologist.

David Mayo was never in the Freezone.

David Mayo does not endorse the Freezone.



If it wasn't for poorly informed people from Eastern Europe, the Freezone wouldn't have anyone to brainwash, but as they wise up and get into the English language Internet, they'll be leaving in droves.

 

Freeminds

Bitter defrocked apostate
. . .
continuosly growing and expanding
. . .
now bigger than ever
. . .

:roflmao:

I love you Terril; I really do... but that sounds like you're channeling a certain asthmatic dwarf. Have the Cheapzoners started buying up old buildings now?
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Any temporary upstat in the Freezone or Indie movement would make sense as the rats flee the sinking ship. The real question is whether or not the Freezone and Indie movements will be sustainable once their feeder mechanism (Co$) collapses.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Any temporary upstat in the Freezone or Indie movement would make sense as the rats flee the sinking ship. The real question is whether or not the Freezone and Indie movements will be sustainable once their feeder mechanism (Co$) collapses.

There's no reason to believe that such a temporary upstat exists.
 

Dave B.

Maximus Ultimus Mostimus
......

Whether der Dwarfenfuhrer would be willing to tap the offshore reserves to run the Co$ remains to be seen. Personally, I think it's his "retirement fund" for when he does the Bulgravian Boogie.

I, for one, believe that we're quite deep into the end game and think we should start placing bets as to the date of demise. I'm not talking about when the "tech" will die out (I don't think it will for a very long time with the Indies and Freezone to carry that) - I'm talking about the date that the organized Co$ will end. The word "imminent" comes to mind when I look at the whole picture.


We could have an office football pool. :) First though have to define "demise". Literally? Like maybe someone poisons his pear juice. Or when the Dwarfenfuhrer (I love that name) takes off to his hidey-hole? Or when finally, the Indictment comes down? Anyway, define demise and I'm in. I got 10 bux on April 2014.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
It's funny that the 'Freezone' is lately making strenuous efforts to co-opt, or associate itself with David Mayo - a person with whom they have no connection whatsoever. One can only assume that they feel the need for a figurehead who doesn't come across as being Type III, and found none available within their ranks.
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
I would define demise as the soonest of Bulgravian Boogie (hidey hole), conviction (or guilty plea - same diff as far as effect) or closing of Flag's doors.

Terrill, I would be interested to know the litigation trends. David Mayo got sued out of existance, and yet Marty has to contend only with dudes in helmet cams and stupid tee shirts. The inability (or unwillingness) to sue Marty out of existance is another indication of financial health, as the standard tech pretty much requires the lawsuits.
 

Veda

Sponsor
The problem with these demise predictions is that no one preserves them. The confident predictions of Scientology's demise from the 1980s are lost, as are the equally confident predictions of its demise from the 1990s.

As for how much loot the secretive criminal operation of Scientolgy has, that's speculation.

It pretty much guaranteed its continuation when it obtained IRS tax exemption and subsequent religious-cloaking.

Any moderately slick operator could maintain the cult indefinitely.

Predictions of its demise are reminiscent of predictions of a Clear planet.

What good does it do? Except perhaps to make the person feel better?
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
The inability (or unwillingness) to sue Marty out of existance is another indication of financial health, as the standard tech pretty much requires the lawsuits.

What is it that they could sue Marty for?

I don't think it is possible any longer to sue someone for using Scientology material outside the church. Honesty, I don't really know this. But with all of the material having been out there for all those years, and all those groups having been out there all those years, and all the stuff having been available on line for a while now...think that ship has sailed.

So, what else? Libel? Good luck proving that in the US. First of all, you have to prove that what is being asserted about the libelee is untrue. With all the exes out there, I don't think anyone in COS Legal wants to go down that road in a courtroom.

I'm not writing this as a challenge. I'm asking the question. What is it that Marty could be sued for? Any ideas?
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

David Mayo got sued out of existance, and yet Marty has to contend only with dudes in helmet cams and stupid tee shirts.

-snip-

Mutual blackmail may be occurring between Rathbun&Rinder and Miscavige, with each knowing where not to tread - thus their war remains essentially a PR war.

As Jesse Prince noted, it's more like a lover's spat.

This was discussed at length months ago.

As for the FZ, at this stage, it's advertising for Scientology as much as it's competition.

There are people who saw "Success Stories" for things such as "OT 3" who - then - stayed IN Scientology Inc. as a result.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
What is it that they could sue Marty for?

I don't think it is possible any longer to sue someone for using Scientology material outside the church. Honesty, I don't really know this. But with all of the material having been out there for all those years, and all those groups having been out there all those years, and all the stuff having been available on line for a while now...think that ship has sailed.

So, what else? Libel? Good luck proving that in the US. First of all, you have to prove that what is being asserted about the libelee is untrue. With all the exes out there, I don't think anyone in COS Legal wants to go down that road in a courtroom.

I'm not writing this as a challenge. I'm asking the question. What is it that Marty could be sued for? Any ideas?

In his day Mayo was real threat due to being a well-liked and respected person appointed to a high position by [STRIKE]Col Sanders[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]Ronald McDonald[/STRIKE] LRH, whereas Marty is such an idiot that he's no threat to the Cof$ at all. His only danger is to people outside the Cof$, who might swallow his rose-tinted portrayal of Hubbard.
 

Veda

Sponsor
In his day Mayo was real threat due to being a well-liked and respected person appointed to a high position by [STRIKE]Col Sanders[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]Ronald McDonald[/STRIKE] LRH, whereas Marty is such an idiot that he's no threat to the Cof$ at all. His only danger is to people outside the Cof$, who might swallow his rose-tinted portrayal of Hubbard.

David Mayo was probably the last real threat, since he knew Hubbard, audited Hubbard, and was Hubbard's number one research person. He saw Hubbard's "upper level" notes (if I recall correctly), was asked by Hubbard to fashion an OT 8, etc.

No one in the Freezone has that "gravitas," although some pretend they do, and with varying degrees of success. Captain Bill, with his telepathic communication from ElRon, from the early 1980s, in Europe, started the world's most successful outside the CofS Scientology group: Ron's Orgs. (The original Free Zone.) Was he ever sued?

David Mayo, with the most credibility, also self-deprogrammed himself and began to speak out critically of Hubbard, and then Hubbard's tech, and publicly ceased being a Scientologist almost twenty years ago.

$cientology picks its targets. They have limited resources, and, who is attacked, and in what manner, depended, to a large extent, on Hubbard's whims, and, later, depends on Miscavige's whims.
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
I've been saying for a while that I don't believe the billion in reserves figure anymore. I thought that it was dated information, and have shared how I calculated Davey Mismanage's ability to make a billion disappear within a few years. But I've admitted that I offer the calculations as a business person only, and have no dox.

Today I saw the closest thing that I've ever seen to dox.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/06/scientology_robert_white.php#more

Specifically, I'm referring to comments of the week - this one is from Mat Pesch.



There is still the outstanding question of how much does the RTC have and where is it? And how much money did Slappy launder to offshore accounts and why? We know that the money laundering and "squirrelling" away of large amounts of money in Curacao has been going on for a while thanks to the anons (see http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?23805-Follow-The-Money-Virginia-Mcclaughry).

As I said last night in another thread, it doesn't make sense for Slappy to buy up buildings and let them get foreclosed, looted, seized, or burn down in mysterious fires. It doesn't make sense for Slappy to risk his coveted IRS status by playing chicken with refunds. Known income versus known expenditures (or estimated expenditures) have made it easy to infer (for me, anyway) that the Co$ is in very serious trouble.

Whether der Dwarfenfuhrer would be willing to tap the offshore reserves to run the Co$ remains to be seen. Personally, I think it's his "retirement fund" for when he does the Bulgravian Boogie.

I, for one, believe that we're quite deep into the end game and think we should start placing bets as to the date of demise. I'm not talking about when the "tech" will die out (I don't think it will for a very long time with the Indies and Freezone to carry that) - I'm talking about the date that the organized Co$ will end. The word "imminent" comes to mind when I look at the whole picture.


I will definitely comandeer that expression ... der Dwarfenfuhrer! And I see you used one of mine, or came up with it independently ... "the Bulgravian Boogie."

Since you believe that the Bulgravian Boogie is imminent, time for a repost of one of my song parodies along those lines.

Pete

[FONT= "arial"]
When DM Runs Away
(tune of Hernando’s Hideaway)

He’ll seek, a dark, secluded place,
A place, where no one knows his face,
As he slinks off, in big disgrace,
We’ll see … when DM runs away … OLÉ!

He’ll run, from every silhouette,
As law enforcement casts a net,
They know, their man, they always get,
But not … when DM runs away … OLÉ!

With his golden parachute there’s places even he could troll,
He can dodge his Uncle Sam and hide out from Interpol!
But if he goes to the spot that I am sure he will,
He will stay free … and have money,
And scotch to swill!

He’ll go, where Mengele laid low,
The hideout of NAZI Doctor Joe,
The same place where the Bush’s go,
That’s right, he’ll run to Paraguay … OLÉ!

He’ll go, where Mengele laid low,
The hideout of NAZI Doctor Joe,
The same place where the Bush’s go,
That’s right, he’ll run to Paraguay … OLÉ!
[/FONT]
 
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