The E-meter Scam

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud


Mark has explained that the incidents from the past that one talks about in auditing can be imaginary...he says it does not matter if they are real or not. And that is what Mark seems to think about a lot of other things to do with Scientology. Mark imagines something about scientology and tries to fob it off as the truth. Most people call this lying or at the least gross misrepresentation.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/archive/index.php/t-11542.html

"....In the most recent edition of the book Scientology - The Fundamentals of Thought, author L. Ron Hubbard explains:
Whether the facsimile in the mind is received while the thetan is awake or unconscious, the resulting mass of the "energy picture" is energy -- just as you see energy in an electric bulb or from the flames of a fire. At one time it was considered that "mental energy" was different from "physical energy." In Scientology it has been discovered that mental energy is simply a finer, higher-level physical energy.

The test of this is conclusive in that a thetan, mocking-up (creating) mental image pictures and thrusting them into the body, can increase the body mass. And, by casting them away again, can decrease the body mass. This test has actually been made and an increase of as much as thirty pounds (actually measured on scales) has been added to and subtracted from a body by creating mental energy.L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology - The Fundamentals of Thought, (c) 2007 L. Ron Hubbard Library, at pg. 72 (emphasis added). (The Scientology term "thetan" is roughly equivalent to the word "soul." The difference is that in Christianity, for example, one would say that you have a soul. In Scientology one would say you are a thetan who happens to possess a body.)
...."

You are startung to get the utter hilarity of reading Mark A Baker posts.

It requires an empty bladder to read his stuff.
 

HoraciotheOT8

Patron with Honors
So what you're saying is that Hubbard was a fool because Miscavige took all his money and spent it on things that Hubbard himself would never have spent it on?

Close, again. And not bad, again. But its more like: Every Father want's his son to be more, and do more, and have more, than he himself was, or did, or had. It's a DNA thing. In Spirit and in Form.

And so Ron, considering all things, in a way, is proud of Davey.

On the other hand, mistakes have been made, by Davey. And Ron is well aware of them.

The true test of anything in this world is the test of time. Therefore, if Davey manages to pull it off ('it' being securing political control of just one country or one nation on this god-forsaken prison planet first called teegeeack, then called earth) Ron will be prouder than a father at the hospital of a new born babe. Named Davey.

The USA is looking promising. But it's best to just wait and see.

much love,
Horacio
 

Demented LRH

Patron Meritorious
Ammeters of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but insults from idiots.

"AUDITORS OF THE WORLD UNITE,
YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT YOUR CERTS"
- L. Ron Hubbard

Both comments denigrating function.
I have to add this -- only an idiot would not understand the basics of the theory of electrical measuring devices; that refers mostly to Hubbard, although some of his followers fall into this category as well.
 

Demented LRH

Patron Meritorious
The test of this is conclusive in that a thetan, mocking-up (creating) mental image pictures and thrusting them into the body, can increase the body mass. And, by casting them away again, can decrease the body mass. This test has actually been made and an increase of as much as thirty pounds (actually measured on scales) has been added to and subtracted from a body by creating mental energy.L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology - The Fundamentals of Thought, (c) 2007 L. Ron Hubbard Library, at pg. 72 (emphasis added). (The Scientology term "thetan" is roughly equivalent to the word "soul." The difference is that in Christianity, for example, one would say that you have a soul. In Scientology one would say you are a thetan who happens to possess a body.)...."
Oh my! I wish I have read this crap when I was a Scientologist!!
 

Demented LRH

Patron Meritorious
Who said that Hubbard or someone close to him invented the e-meter?

"An E-meter is an electronic device used during Dianetics and Scientology auditing The device is a variation of a Wheatstone bridge, which measures electrical resistance and skin conductance. It is formally known as the Hubbard Electrometer, after the Church's founder"
Wikipedia.

"A Wheatstone bridge is an electrical circuit used to measure an unknown electrical resistance by balancing two legs of a bridge circuit, one leg of which includes the unknown component. Its operation is similar to the original potentiometer."
Wikipedia

"The Wheatstone bridge illustrates the concept of a difference measurement, which can be extremely accurate. Variations on the Wheatstone bridge can be used to measure capacitance, inductance, impedance and other quantities, such as the amount of combustible gases in a sample, with an explosimeter. The Kelvin bridge was specially adapted from the Wheatstone bridge for measuring very low resistances. In many cases, the significance of measuring the unknown resistance is related to measuring the impact of some physical phenomenon (such as force, temperature, pressure, etc.)) which thereby allows the use of Wheatstone bridge in measuring those elements indirectly".
Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheatstone_bridge

===================

All devices with the Wheatstone bridge have numbers on their dials; these numbers represent the magnitudes of the quantities that they measure (electric currents, resistances, impedances, etc).

There are no numbers of the e-meter scale, which show that this is a defective device that was not calibrated. In other words, the e-meter's Wheatstone bridge is unbalanced, which makes it completely useless.

To make matters even worse, the F/N movement is not a characteristic of the Wheatstone bridge it makes impossible to determine the magnitude of the quality being measured.
 

onthepes

Patron with Honors
Oh my! I wish I have read this crap when I was a Scientologist!!


I DID read this crap as a Scientologist. I remember it well. Imagine pulling up to McDonald's Drivethrough: "Yeah, I'd like 15 pounds of Mental Image Pictures, 10 Pounds of incidents, and 5 pounds of earlier similars......with fries"
 

Terril park

Sponsor
To be fair, so is mine. So is all of ours, really, since to my knowledge, nobody inside or outside of the CoS has submitted this to the proper process to understand fully how/why it works the way it does, nor the money or inclination to do so.

Unfortunately, as a "non-funded researcher", the bar is a little too high to try this out for many people, cost-wise. The divide for me is that if I were sufficiently invested in the outcome, I could justify the cost, but I'm really not, so I don't. Besides, when you're invested in the idea, confirmation bias concerns me, so I have to take both polar sides with a similar grain of salt.

I did enjoy Paul's videos referenced above in the thread, though.

i was being "toungue in cheek". he explains to us all in great detail how
an e-meter works or dosn't and he's never laid eyes on one.
 

Etrawl

Patron
The true test of anything in this world is the test of time. Therefore, if Davey manages to pull it off ('it' being securing political control of just one country or one nation on this god-forsaken prison planet first called teegeeack, then called earth) Ron will be prouder than a father at the hospital of a new born babe. Named Davey.

The USA is looking promising. But it's best to just wait and see.

much love,
Horacio

Son, it pains me to see how clouded your mind is. You are saying things that no one can understand. But I do not blame you for that: You got entangled in Hubbard’s web of lies. I want to set you free because you are dear to me.

You got too far on the Bridge to see the road in front of you clearly, but I want to save you from Hubbard’s deadly embrace. You see, all OT levels are just the illusions triggered by ill-fated attempts to remove the implants. Hubbard could not take care of his own implants, why would you think that he can help you deal with your implants?

All Hubbard was doing was spreading horrendous lies about me and the implants that my scientists developed under my guidance. I am the only person who can deactivate your implants, and I want you on my side.

My recruiting efforts are going well, I have recruited several members of this board. But you resists all my attempts to help you.

I am not just your rightful leader, I am also your priest. I want you to return to the ancient Marcab religion. We should worship God Metteyya together as we did in the past when you were my stepson. I remember our glorious past, but you do not because you chose Hubbard’s Tech and the Disloyal Officers over your former Marcab friends and associates.

I am the Savior of this planet and all Marcabian planets as well. I am also the High Priest.

Come to papa! We can do glorious things together!

Lord Zenu Etrawl of Galactic Confederacy.
 

dB8008'

Patron
In that way auditing can actually make you "feel better" or "experience a win" by causing your mind to generate an emotionally traumatic or painful experience which never happened in the first place then causing you to experience said trauma and recover from the associated negative feelings all in a single sitting.

Its like when you get really sick and then you feel better. Even though you are only back to normal you feel amazing because you felt so terrible only a short while ago.

Except in this case someone made you sick and then made you better which means the entire procedure was pointless because you weren't sick in the first place.



Trauma is trauma. The 'events' used to explain trauma aren't necessarily true. Many suffer trauma from events which did not in fact occur as they may recall them. Doesn't lessen the trauma, just the trustworthiness of their own particular memory of events.

Memory is not an infallible process.


Mark A. Baker


If you don't buy into the whole track, and past lives, and near infinite amounts of 'charge', it becomes like a game of fetch. A dog will run after a meaningless object because it enjoys running, and a PC will go earlier to find a hidden charge because it feels so good when charge is blown. Sometimes, stick in hand, you make the swing but don't let go of the stick. The dog runs away, but comes back with a rock or a different stick. WIN!! Good boy!!

I once used Paul's "Rub & Yawn" intro video to thrash apart some emotion that was very close to present time, and it surprised me with it's effectiveness. It left me blown out and floating on air for about 48 hours. Besides easing my mind, it gave me a taste of an amazing, unimpaired high. The feeling faded out, but it felt like the job had been done, and I wasn't too worried about trying to recapture it.

I think, like a powerful drug, this has good uses. In the case of a body injury, a dose of morphine relief might save somebody dying from shock. Where there's no injury, morphine can equal pleasure. After that, all kinds of imaginary pain might start appearing because it feels so good when the drug takes it away.

It's a weak analogy, but I don't want to chase any of those dragons. I've known people who can postulate emotional trauma, and they aren't happy.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I once used Paul's "Rub & Yawn" intro video to thrash apart some emotion that was very close to present time, and it surprised me with it's effectiveness. It left me blown out and floating on air for about 48 hours. Besides easing my mind, it gave me a taste of an amazing, unimpaired high. The feeling faded out, but it felt like the job had been done, and I wasn't too worried about trying to recapture it.

:)

May I quote you?

Paul
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Which markings ?

Nevermind, somebody else answered this, uh, question.

Folks it is obvious the cult holds the e meter in reverence while we detractors don't.

The meter really doesn't matter. It just doesn't.

There are harmful, damaging, life threatening things about scientology in beliefs & practices - that does matter.

But, yes, a whole set of volumes could be written about meter.

So ? What matters ?

I'm thinking he's talking about divs and then if you consider divs/session valuable then they are integral to some sort of measuring and all that.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Hubbard's e-meter books say something like the meter passes a small current through the body, which measures its resistance. When something charged is encountered, that something has mass, which increases the resistance, which is measured on the meter. When the person does whatever auditing process is involved, the charge is dissipated, and the resistance comes down. There is no metaphor or allegory involved in the "official" explanation — the mass is mass, grams and ounces and pounds. The "Understanding the E-Meter" book says mental image pictures have weight, and there is even a diagram of a person surrounded by lots of heavy-looking (charged) mental image pictures, and a scale showing an increase of 30 lb. because Hubbard [STRIKE]lied about[/STRIKE] said that (the 30 lb. increase) in a lecture once. There's a diagram of a person holding a can in each hand and arrows showing the flow of current up one arm and across the chest and down the other arm and completing the circuit through the meter.

On a cursory not-too-scientific inspection it sounds OK, apart from the 30 lb. thing. The meter measures the resistance in the body, and the resistance observably goes up when one thinks of emotionally-charged stuff and goes down when one discharges that heavy stuff.

The explanation wobbles a bit when one considers that some emotionally-charged thing produces exactly the same meter readings, both as to TA (resistance) and needle reads, when holding a can in each hand and holding solo cans in one hand only, with the cans separated by maybe 2 mm of insulator. At least, the TA is exactly the same if the same amount of skin is on the cans when held solo or in two hands.

Observably, the TA can crash from 6.0 to 2.0 in a few seconds, i.e. the resistance across the body (or across 2 mm of skin) changing from literally 200,000 ohms to 5,000 ohms in a couple of heartbeats. What physical change in the body causes the change in reading? I don't know, although the change in the pc is obvious!

Paul

Here's what the tech dictionary has to say:

CHARGE, 1 . harmful energy or force accumulated and stored within the reactive mind, resulting from the conflicts and unpleasant experiences that a person has had. Auditing discharges this charge so that it is no longer there to affect the
individual. (Scn AD) 2 . the electrical impulse on the case that activates the meter. (HCOB 27 May 70) 3 . stored energy or stored recreatable potentials of energy. (HCOB 8 Jun 63) 4 . the stored quantities of energy in the time track. It is the sole thing that is being relieved or removed by the auditor from the time track. (HCOB 13 Apr 64, Scn VIPart One Tone Arm Action) 5 . emotional charge or energy. (NSOL, p. 29) 6 . the accumulation of entheta in locks and secondaries which charges up the engrams and gives them their force to aberrate. (SOS Gloss) 7 . by charge is meant anger, fear, grief, or apathy contained as misemotion in the case. (SOS, p. 108) See also CHRONIC CHARGE.

CHRONIC CHARGE
, the impulse to withdraw from that which can’t be withdrawn from or to approach that which can’t be approached, and this, like a two pole battery, generates current. This constantly generated current is chronic charge. (HCOB 15 May 63)

MASS (IN THE GPM), 1. when we say mass we mean mass. It’s electronic standing waves actually, and they usually appear black to the pc and these become visible. (SH Spec 96, 6112C21) 2 . no more and no less than a confusion of
mismanaged communication. (Dn 55 .!, p. 65)

MASSES, masses are masses and they are not by the way particles unless you consider particles as a subdivisible singular. Masses are something that are shed from a thetan by mock-up and particles are something that are shed from masses. That’s usually the way we find things. (17 ACC-5, 5703PM01)

In addition I believe it is in Fundamentals of Thought where Hubbard asserts that with thought alone an individual's weight was altered by as much as thirty pounds.

Presumably this was done with Havingness Processes or Mock Up processing or something and should be relatively easy to replicate given it were true.

Hubbard meant mass to be mass in the classical sense...it was measurable and had definable weight even if subtle as it was mentioned along with the measuring of people at death to see if the soul had weight and the corresponding figure of 21 grams.

The reason for this weight is the mental image mass accompanying the being and NOT the weight of the being itself as it is a static that has no mass, no weight, no location, no wavelength, etc.

Someone, I think Adam####, mentioned valence for the father remembering the uncle's incident. This would fit Scientology doctrine fine and correctly because the idea of the thetan having weight is related to the thetan being out of valence, blah, blah, blather, babble.

The idea from Mark Baker that the mass means emotional weight is inaccurate...the mass has physical weight.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased


Mark has explained that the incidents from the past that one talks about in auditing can be imaginary...he says it does not matter if they are real or not. And that is what Mark seems to think about a lot of other things to do with Scientology. Mark imagines something about scientology and tries to fob it off as the truth. Most people call this lying or at the least gross misrepresentation.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/archive/index.php/t-11542.html

"....In the most recent edition of the book Scientology - The Fundamentals of Thought, author L. Ron Hubbard explains:
Whether the facsimile in the mind is received while the thetan is awake or unconscious, the resulting mass of the "energy picture" is energy -- just as you see energy in an electric bulb or from the flames of a fire. At one time it was considered that "mental energy" was different from "physical energy." In Scientology it has been discovered that mental energy is simply a finer, higher-level physical energy.

The test of this is conclusive in that a thetan, mocking-up (creating) mental image pictures and thrusting them into the body, can increase the body mass. And, by casting them away again, can decrease the body mass. This test has actually been made and an increase of as much as thirty pounds (actually measured on scales) has been added to and subtracted from a body by creating mental energy.L. Ron Hubbard, Scientology - The Fundamentals of Thought, (c) 2007 L. Ron Hubbard Library, at pg. 72 (emphasis added). (The Scientology term "thetan" is roughly equivalent to the word "soul." The difference is that in Christianity, for example, one would say that you have a soul. In Scientology one would say you are a thetan who happens to possess a body.)
...."

As to my last post...what he said!
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
In addition I believe it is in Fundamentals of Thought where Hubbard asserts that with thought alone an individuals weight was altered by as much as thirty pounds.

Presumably this was done with Havingness Processes or Mock Up processing or something and should be relatively easy to replicate given it were true.
I remember a lecture where he talked about this. I had made the same assumption as you. In the lecture he said this process occurred over a time period of *weeks.* He didn't mention any other possible reasons for the weight to go up and down!

Hubbard meant mass to be mass in the classical sense...it was measurable and had definable weight even if subtle as it was mentioned along with the measuring of people at death to see if the soul had weight and the corresponding figure of 21 grams.

Here is the original 1907 write-up: http://www.ghostweb.com/soul.html. I didn't bother to link to articles poo-poohing it, which some may prefer. :)

The reason for this weight is the mental image mass accompanying the being and NOT the weight of the being itself as it is a static that has no mass, no weight, no location, no wavelength, etc.
Static and thetan are not synonymous in Scientology. The thetan runs the body in the Hubbaverse, not a static, complete with electronic anchor points and other exotica.

Paul
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
-snip-

Static and thetan are not synonymous in Scientology. The thetan runs the body in the Hubbaverse, not a static, complete with electronic anchor points and other exotica.

Paul

Here's from the Tech Dictionary again and I'm using definitions two, four and ten:

THETAN, 1. the living unit we call, in Scn, a thetan, that being taken from the Greek letter theta, the mathematic symbol used in Scn to indicate the source of life and life itself. (Abil Ma 1) 2 . the awareness of awareness unit which has all potentialities but no mass, no wave-length and no location. (HCOB 3 Jul 59) 3 . the being who is the individual and who handles and lives in the body. (HCOB 23 Apr 69) 4 . (spirit) is described in Scn as having no mass, no wave-length, no energy and no time or location in space except by consideration or postulate. The spirit is not a thing. It is the creator of things. (FOT, p. 55) 5 . the personality and beingness which actually is the individual and is aware of being aware and is ordinarily and normally the “person” and who the individual thinks he is. The thetan is immortal and is possessed of capabilities well in excess of those hitherto predicted for man. (Scn 8-8008, p. 9) 6 . the name given to the life source. It is the individual, the being, the personality, the knowingness of the human being. (Scn 8-80, p. 46) 7 . energyspace production unit. (COHA, p. 247) 8 . in the final analysis what is this thing called thetan? It is simply you before you mocked yourself up and that is the handiest definition I know of. (5608C——) 9 . the person himself—not his body or his name, the physical universe, his mind, or anything else; that which is aware of being aware; the identity which is the individual. The thetan is most familiar to one and all as you. (Aud 25 UK) 1 0 . a static that can consider, and can produce space and energy and objects . (PXL, p . 121 )

At any rate we agree...Hubbard definitely meant mass to mean weighable, measurable matter.
 
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