THE EIGHTH DYNAMIC

[lexmark]

Firstly I would like to rescind my previous post that Scientology is obsolete. The reason for this is that I cannot ignore the gains I made when I first joined Scientology at a class 4 org. Doing the comm course and then the HPA and listening to the tapes of LRH was a fabulous experience which changed my life. My auditing career also gave me tremendous gains in that it increased my confront of people tremendously. It is doubtful that any other human betterment organisation could compete. At that time I had tremendous respect for LRH.

Secondly I visited the website of a guy who worked with LRH from 1956 and who became a friend and his personal communicator on the flag ship. He probably knew LRH better than anyone else. On his website he mentioned that LRH opened the door to the 8th dynamic but never went through. He mentions why he thought that LRH did not go through which may or may not be the actual reason however this made scientology as an incomplete subject.

In my previous post I mentioned that science has entered the field of spirituality with the discovery of quantum physics. I have had quite a few negative comments about quantum physics so let me explain. There are today two branches of science if you can call it that. The first is the materialist scientist who maintains that “MATTER IS THE GROUND OF ALL BEING” then there is the idealist scientist who postulates that “CONSCIOUSNESS IS THE GROUND OF ALL BEING” and is presenting to the world the science of Monistic Idealism based on the concept of “Consciousness being the ground of all being”. The materialist scientist seems to avoid looking at the spiritual side of quantum physics for whatever reason he has, maybe a fixed idea or whatever.

There are rather quite a few of the new breed of scientists but the majority are still of the old breed pushing materialism in the world. Materialism validates such evilness as war, weapons of mass destruction etc. Climate Change and the recent economic collapse have their routes in materialist science. There is also a body of scientists who will read all scientific discoveries and will give their opinion whether it is scientific or not. Only those discoveries that this body gives their blessing too, make it to the newspapers and which receive validation.

It is my opinion that based on the statement by the non materialist scientists of "Consciousness being the ground of all being" and Consciousness being synonymous with God, that quantum physics opens the door to the 8th dynamic and allows us to walk through. LRH also mentioned that the 8th dynamic is the God Dynamic. How does this dynamic work. In experiments done by the biologist Rupert Sheldrake many years ago he taught a bunch monkeys some tricks on one of many islands and on visiting the other islands he discovered that the monkeys were doing these tricks although they had no way of communicating with each other as they were separated by sea. He explained it by the “morphogenetic field,” the field of form making”. More on this later.

The physicist Amit Goswami one of the originators of the concept that Consciousness is the ground of all being concept has validated the subject of evolution. He states that the creationists do not look at the overwhelming evidence of fossils that do in actual fact exist. He states also that the fossil gaps are absolute proof of the existence of God (The 8th Dynamic). How is this so. In his paper “Signatures of the Divine”, Goswami states that in order for an eye to evolve it takes thousands and thousands of gene mutations. The evolution of half an eye is not practical and is useless to the organism. What happens is that consciousness collects all the information to produce an eye which is stored in the morphogenetic field and when it has the final blueprint a quantum leap occurs and a creature suddenly appears with an eye which produces the fossil gap in nature. This entire process can be read in Goswami’s paper entitled “SIGNATURES OF THE DIVINE”, available to view at the link http://www.amitgoswami.org/signatures-divine/#more-175 which explains it in full. So it is quite apparent that something outside the physical universe which collects and stores information and produces physical organisms or whatever. What we are entering here is the concept of creation. Creation is part and parcel of the 8th dynamic.
There are papers on Spiritual Economics, http://www.amitgoswami.org/spiritual-economics/#more-190 , healing etc. If you knew all about this 8th dynamic could you maybe heal yourself or others. As mentioned earlier climate change is the result of materialism and so is our economics. Our economics is based on exploitation of the resources of our planet in order to create wealth and in order to maintain that wealth and expand we need to exploit the resources more and more. Are the melting ice caps the result or an indication from the 8th dynamic that we are doing something wrong. Has the 8th dynamic brought about the financial catastrophe that we have just experienced and which had devastating results across the planet. A protest that we must change.

I think in this area we can see the 8th dynamic. Many of you have read Joe van Staden’s blog on “The birth of the SO” he has also written a book on Consciousness (not yet published) which embraces the field of the 8th dynamic. Maybe LRH did not wish to enter the door because he was aware how vast this dynamic is and he did not wish to enter it knowing that he did not have the time left to complete it. Maybe he left it for someone else to complete. Maybe he needed the science of quantum physics which was not available then. It is after all the god dynamic which as LRH described as an 8 turned on its side symbolizing infinity.

Maybe if we embrace this dynamic we can become quite a force and maybe convince Miscaviage that this is where the future lies not by his disconnection policies. There is a tremendous resource of all the ex scientologists and those that have been declared and those that worked with LRH. Maybe we can also do something about the planet, whatever.

 

[Telepathetic]

You doubt that there is another group out there which could compete with Scientology? This would suggests to me that you've tried it all. I doubt that, but then again, I could be wrong.

I hear this often from "tech obsessed"ex Scilons in this Board and in life. The claim that there is nothing out there better than Scientology nauseates me. It is typical Scilon arrogance.

I have one friend in particular who has never done a damn thing-- except for a short stint in a Christian group-- other than Scientology training and auditing. Yet, he like you, declares to the world,that there is nothing better.

I also had "wins" on the lower levels but, since I've been out, I've also obtained great benefits from those "other practices" and without all the outrages demands put on me, my money, time and associations, by that unscrupulous and conniving cult. By the way, those "wins" were unspectacular and transitory. I never met a Clear nor especially an OT.

As far as convincing Miscarriage of anything, well,with all due respect, I think you're delusional.

Otherwise, I enjoyed reading your last post, and the comments from others therein, as well as this one. I'm really learning quite a bit. Thanks.

TP

 

[Telepathetic]

Sorry, I've been remiss. Welcome to the Board

TP

 

[Alanzo]

Firstly I would like to rescind my previous post that Scientology is obsolete. The reason for this is that I cannot ignore the gains I made when I first joined Scientology at a class 4 org. Doing the comm course and then the HPA and listening to the tapes of LRH was a fabulous experience which changed my life. My auditing career also gave me tremendous gains in that it increased my confront of people tremendously. It is doubtful that any other human betterment organisation could compete. At that time I had tremendous respect for LRH.

Secondly I visited the website of a guy who worked with LRH from 1956 and who became a friend and his personal communicator on the flag ship. He probably knew LRH better than anyone else. On his website he mentioned that LRH opened the door to the 8th dynamic but never went through. He mentions why he thought that LRH did not go through which may or may not be the actual reason however this made scientology as an incomplete subject.

In my previous post I mentioned that science has entered the field of spirituality with the discovery of quantum physics. I have had quite a few negative comments about quantum physics so let me explain. There are today two branches of science if you can call it that. The first is the materialist scientist who maintains that “MATTER IS THE GROUND OF ALL BEING” then there is the idealist scientist who postulates that “CONSCIOUSNESS IS THE GROUND OF ALL BEING” and is presenting to the world the science of Monistic Idealism based on the concept of “Consciousness being the ground of all being”. The materialist scientist seems to avoid looking at the spiritual side of quantum physics for whatever reason he has, maybe a fixed idea or whatever.

There are rather quite a few of the new breed of scientists but the majority are still of the old breed pushing materialism in the world. Materialism validates such evilness as war, weapons of mass destruction etc. Climate Change and the recent economic collapse have their routes in materialist science. There is also a body of scientists who will read all scientific discoveries and will give their opinion whether it is scientific or not. Only those discoveries that this body gives their blessing too, make it to the newspapers and which receive validation.

It is my opinion that based on the statement by the non materialist scientists of "Consciousness being the ground of all being" and Consciousness being synonymous with God, that quantum physics opens the door to the 8th dynamic and allows us to walk through. LRH also mentioned that the 8th dynamic is the God Dynamic. How does this dynamic work. In experiments done by the biologist Rupert Sheldrake many years ago he taught a bunch monkeys some tricks on one of many islands and on visiting the other islands he discovered that the monkeys were doing these tricks although they had no way of communicating with each other as they were separated by sea. He explained it by the “morphogenetic field,” the field of form making”. More on this later.

The physicist Amit Goswami one of the originators of the concept that Consciousness is the ground of all being concept has validated the subject of evolution. He states that the creationists do not look at the overwhelming evidence of fossils that do in actual fact exist. He states also that the fossil gaps are absolute proof of the existence of God (The 8th Dynamic). How is this so. In his paper “Signatures of the Divine”, Goswami states that in order for an eye to evolve it takes thousands and thousands of gene mutations. The evolution of half an eye is not practical and is useless to the organism. What happens is that consciousness collects all the information to produce an eye which is stored in the morphogenetic field and when it has the final blueprint a quantum leap occurs and a creature suddenly appears with an eye which produces the fossil gap in nature. This entire process can be read in Goswami’s paper entitled “SIGNATURES OF THE DIVINE”, available to view at the link http://www.amitgoswami.org/signatures-divine/#more-175 which explains it in full. So it is quite apparent that something outside the physical universe which collects and stores information and produces physical organisms or whatever. What we are entering here is the concept of creation. Creation is part and parcel of the 8th dynamic.
There are papers on Spiritual Economics, http://www.amitgoswami.org/spiritual-economics/#more-190 , healing etc. If you knew all about this 8th dynamic could you maybe heal yourself or others. As mentioned earlier climate change is the result of materialism and so is our economics. Our economics is based on exploitation of the resources of our planet in order to create wealth and in order to maintain that wealth and expand we need to exploit the resources more and more. Are the melting ice caps the result or an indication from the 8th dynamic that we are doing something wrong. Has the 8th dynamic brought about the financial catastrophe that we have just experienced and which had devastating results across the planet. A protest that we must change.

I think in this area we can see the 8th dynamic. Many of you have read Joe van Staden’s blog on “The birth of the SO” he has also written a book on Consciousness (not yet published) which embraces the field of the 8th dynamic. Maybe LRH did not wish to enter the door because he was aware how vast this dynamic is and he did not wish to enter it knowing that he did not have the time left to complete it. Maybe he left it for someone else to complete. Maybe he needed the science of quantum physics which was not available then. It is after all the god dynamic which as LRH described as an 8 turned on its side symbolizing infinity.

Maybe if we embrace this dynamic we can become quite a force and maybe convince Miscaviage that this is where the future lies not by his disconnection policies. There is a tremendous resource of all the ex scientologists and those that have been declared and those that worked with LRH. Maybe we can also do something about the planet, whatever.

Lexmark -

I have one of your printers and the LED control panel went out on it. Now it just sits there in my office taking up space. Can you fix it?

And well-written post, by the way. You express your position well. It's totally wrong, of course, but well expressed.

Welcome to the board!

 

[AngeloV]

Welcome to the board.

Seems as though you have one of your feet firmly planted in the pseudoscience mud pit. I offer you this advice: Stop wasting your life mucking around with this crap and spend more time enjoying life. Love your partner and raise your children. Find work you like and give yourself to it. Foster your friendships and visit different places. This way when you are old and gray you can look back on your life and know that you lived. Or not and you will have a lot of regret.

 

[Smilla]

Welcome

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Lexmark, welcome!

I think you should get into some good discussions here, you think differently, that's always good.

Not sure at all about fossil gaps, I understood that shellfish had no eyes as such but could tell light from dark, not half eyes but a random Darwinian experiment, eventually moving towards full, pretty brown/green blinking eyes with long lashes. Also it's possible that such info can be stored in the DNA and sprout fully formed when the environment changes drastically.

Sometimes I tend towards some concept of eighth dynamic and some times I am a materialist. I am a true quantum semi-atheist. Most gods are just pathetic so obviously the invention of humans, plucking harps on clouds. Anything that could have created all of this cosmos wouldn't be able to find a single planet let alone sit on a cloud, or for that matter set up DNA to make eyes.

 

[yon8008]

Cool Thread Idea!

Materialists vs Recognition of Consciousness: Your discussion here is great! I'd like to extend it further. Even within Quantum Physics there is quite a bit of materialism. While I was earning a Masters in Physics, I learned Quantum Mechanics and Quantum Field Theory. Some books and movies like "What the Bleep" present the idea that 'with quantum mechanics everything is possible' and 'here is God'. What the theory actually says is that the probability of what will happen evolves through time in a defined way, and observation events will 'force' one of those possibilities to manifest. It is still very much mechanistic, and, at least the way it was presented to me, there was still no room for consciousness.

To me, it seems easy to point out the importance of considering Consciousness in a complete model of reality. In newtonian mechanics, you can accurately predict where the cannon ball will land based on initial velocity (mass of load & mass of gun powder), angle, gravity, wind. The theory does NOT however get into "When will the cannon be fired?" that question is outside the scope of newtonian mechanics - the obvious answer is "When a person decides to fire it." Newtonian mechanics DOESN'T TRY to answer that question. But with Quantum Mechanics there is a sense that 'this theory explains everything', like this "if we could know the wave function of all the protons, electrons, & neutrons in your brain, then we could map out thoughts, and know when the cannon ball would be fired. But that problem is too complex - and even a Lattice Gauge Quantum Field Theory approximation would be impossible to simulate, so it seems that this theory is sufficient to explain it, but we can't use it predictively." And it may be so.

But look: Newtonian Physics is not the exact right model of reality, QFT is better. Newtonian Physics is a valid approximation of QFT for everyday use. When it comes to cannon balls, you don't use QFT, you use Newtonian Physics. That is THE RIGHT TOOL for the job.

so here's the summary:
QFT (Quantum Field Theory) "explains it all" but can't be used due to complexity.
Newtonian Physics "doesn't try to explain it all", is valid when used appropriately.

And so between those two there is a kind of gap. The missing piece is a theory that may not be perfectly representative of reality (just like Newtonian Physics is not perfectly representative of reality) - but would still be helpful in offering WORKABLE, USEFUL, PREDICTIVE answers to certain questions that we would care to ask.

Consider for example how you would answer the question, "How likely is it that someone will put a shopping center 3 miles up the interstate highway?" This is not a question that you use QFT of Newtonian Mechanics to determine. Instead you go down to the county's office and look to see if a permit has been pulled to build there.

Human Behavior, Emotion, Thoughts, group dynamics, attention, perception, imagination - there is no "PHYSICS" for these. Newtonian Physics knows that these issues are outside the scope of what it covers. QFT asserts that it would explain them all, but the computer power required to do it is so far off it probably won't happen in our lifetimes. And physicists generally will not touch the subject for fear of totally losing credibility. But there it is. The door is wide open for someone (maybe me) to put SOMETHING there that is perhaps a bit more workable (no attempt to say that it would be absolutely right).

--------------
8th Dynamic: There is a trend in human behavior to reach the unknown and say, "See, it is God!"

If you haven't read it yet, see if you can get your hands on HCOPL 31 January 1972 The Why is God.

“The inability to observe and find an actual usable Why is the downfall of beings and activities.”

“The Why is NOT God. It lies with YOU and your ability to be logical.”


When someone cannot conceive of any other answer, he may through up his hands and say, "And there is God", and there ends his intellectual pursuit. He may start trying to PROVE that it IS GOD.

"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people."
- House

GOD becomes the stable datum holding back all of the confusions, of not understanding reality, of not knowing HOW & WHY things happened as they did.

"Are the melting ice caps the result or an indication from the 8th dynamic that we are doing something wrong. Has the 8th dynamic brought about the financial catastrophe that we have just experienced and which had devastating results across the planet. A protest that we must change."

Ice melts when thermal energy (heat) is added to it and the intermolecular forces are over-come by kinetic energy. The Earth's temperature is in a kind of equilibrium between the energy it receives from the sun, and the energy it radiates away. The thermal energy available at sea level is moved around by convection (wind & ocean currents) so some places get warmer while some places get cooler.

The financial catastrophe is a result of having consumed more than what has been produced for years. (This is applicable to a person, a family, a city, a state, a country, and the whole world). Opt out of the depression by becoming skilled in creating/producing values that will still be commercially viable (profitable after production & marketing & taxes) as others become unemployed. (debt collection is going to be a great industry for the next 5+ years.) Consume less than you produce and use the excess for savings/reserves, creating new businesses, and/or personal development.

It is people VIA consciousness that decides whether some particular state is acceptable or unacceptable. If we don't want all of our resources consumed, we should conserve them. If we want to regulate the temperature of the planet, mirrors positioned in outer space to either A) block out some of the sun's light/energy, or B) direct more sunlight to the earth would be the most effective. CO2 "a green house gas" that "traps in the energy" is not valid scientific thinking. (The amount of energy received and absorbed by the earth's land/atmosphere depends almost entirely on the radiative output of the sun. This is modified slightly by cloud cover and snow cover - and could be modified by a man-made mirrors correctly positioned. the amount of energy radiated by earth depends almost entirely on it's temperature, the mixture of gases in the atmosphere is almost insignificant in comparison to the temperature - a hotter earth radiates more energy. The earth will always be in a kind of equilibrium where month to month or year to year or millennium to millennium the energy the earth receives is the same amount of energy the earth radiates away, if the earn receives more than it gives off it's temperature will go up, if it receives less than it is giving off it cools down. We could regulate the earth's temperature with mirrors on earth or in space - far more cheaply and effectively than regulating CO2 emissions. But regulating CO2 emissions gives government bureaucrats another tool of control and power [what they really want], another tax by which to extract value from honest individuals, so that they may consume without producing of any real value.)

-----------------------
The 8th dynamic is real - there is always the "and everything else that I don't know about yet". As our understanding expands we are expanding out INTO that UNKNOWN. There is little or no reason to talk about it - except to say that 'there are things we do not yet know, and we should keep looking'. As we get more information we will find out what IS out there. We can speculate that there is a big thetan that created a cascading series of universes within universes within games models within an archive structure played on endless repeat, but why try to put something there mentally if not in an attempt to avoid the personal responsibility of LOOKING AT REALITY and figuring it out.

For many, God is an excuse to stop looking for more understanding.

On the other hand, if you've met it, then all of this goes away, that would be LOOKING AT REALITY/ACTUALITY. Find a way to help others do the same.

 

[Veda]

Firstly I would like to rescind my previous post that Scientology is obsolete. The reason for this is that I cannot ignore the gains I made when I first joined Scientology at a class 4 org. Doing the comm course and then the HPA and listening to the tapes of LRH was a fabulous experience which changed my life. My auditing career also gave me tremendous gains in that it increased my confront of people tremendously. It is doubtful that any other human betterment organisation could compete. At that time I had tremendous respect for LRH.

Secondly I visited the website of a guy who worked with LRH from 1956 and who became a friend and his personal communicator on the flag ship. He probably knew LRH better than anyone else. On his website he mentioned that LRH opened the door to the 8th dynamic but never went through. He mentions why he thought that LRH did not go through which may or may not be the actual reason however this made scientology as an incomplete subject.

-snip-

There's no reason to ignore your gains, but don't be mesmerized by them either. http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105

Scientology only seems like an incomplete subject if one assumes that its founder's publicly stated objectives were his actual objectives. Abundant historic evidence indicates otherwise - difficult as that may be for some to accept.

It's not likely that Ken Urquhart (I assume that's who you're referencing) "knew LRH better than anyone else." He was - essentially - his adoring servant for many years, and has fashioned an impressive rationalization for how his Master could be such a creep - a rationalization, reflecting Urquhart's essential goodness, fragile but noble intellect and, unfortunately, his childlike need for a father figure.

I wonder if the LRH PPRO people are keeping a file on Urquhart's "LRH was the Messiah after all" rationalizations. They'd be wise to do so - some pretty good stuff. Wrap it in sheets of metaphysical significance, and you're off to the races.

 

[lexmark]

LRH labeled the 8th dynamic that does not mean he created it. Religions throughout the world recognized that there was some sort of higher power but could not explain it but took ownership of it and perverted it and claimed it as their God. Some religions have their members groveling and worshiping whatever this power is. Even scientist have been trying to find this power and called it physics. I spoke to a scientist recently and he said “it is all physics”. I gave him some reference material on quantum physics and he did not come back to me. Seems to have disappeared into the mire.

It is sometimes a bit difficult to answer all the questions so I will just give some of the source material.

From Goswami Signatures of The Divine
Jesus lamented, The kingdom of God is everywhere, but people don’t see it. Well, the evidence is subtle; it is easy for ordinary people to miss it. But scientists are special people; they are experts in deciphering subtleties of evidence. Why have they been missing the signatures of the divine? The Nobel laureate physicist Richard Feynman expressed this myopia of the scientists of recent times when he offered this admonishment against unbridled imagination. Said he, “Scientific imagination is imagination within a straightjacket.” The straightjacket Feynman and others of the materialist ilk wear is the straightjacket of the belief system called scientific materialism. And the doctrine that binds the most is the exclusive reductionist doctrine of upward causation–everything is the movement of elementary particles and their interactions.

This entire paper is an exercise in how to take the straightjacket of materialism off our back. I argue that quantum physics is showing us the way by giving us back downward causation and its agent—Quantum consciousness (popularly called God) acting through the observer. In Newtonian physics, objects are determined things. But in quantum physics, objects are possibilities for consciousness to choose from. When an observer looks, the observer’s consciousness chooses among the quantum possibilities to collapse an actuality of experience. Quantum collapse is downward causation.
Our own experience suggests and as the psychologist Carl Jung codified, there are four compartments of the quantum possibilities of consciousness: the material consisting of gross substance that is used for making representations of the subtle; upon collapse this one we experience as sensing. The vital consisting of blueprints for biological form-making; upon collapse this one we experience as feeling. The Mental consisting of meaning substance; upon collapse this one we experience as thinking. And the supramental consisting of archetypes of meaning and biological functions which we experience when collapsed as intuition (Goswami, 2004).

The conclusion of these experiments is radical. Quantum consciousness, the precipitator of the downward causation of choice from quantum possibilities is what esoteric spiritual traditions call God. We have rediscovered God within science. However it is a new paradigm of science, based not on the primacy of matter as the old science, but on the primacy of consciousness. Consciousness is the ground of all being which we now can recognize as what the spiritual traditions call Godhead.

Spiritual Economics
In idealist economics, as people’s higher needs are met even partially, their physical needs reduce, reducing the demand for consumption reducing the wastage of limited material resources. The economy still expands, but in the higher planes where the resources are unlimited (there is no limit on love and satisfaction!).
There is also another related problem with capitalism and material expansion economics–environmental pollution. This is a tricky one. In the short term, production of pollution helps expand the economy by creating pollution clean-up sectors of the economy. Believe it or not, the Exxon-Valdez oil-spill disaster actually produced an economic boom in Alaska. But in the long run, environmental pollution in a finite planet environment is bound to end up with a doomsday of reckoning. Many environmentalists think that global warming has already reached doomsday criticality.
In spiritual economics, material consumption is reduced thus automatically reducing environmental pollution.

Regarding Melting Ice Caps
According to quantum scientists what people think is more important than mechanics such as putting mirrors in space. Taking resposibility for our actions is fundamental. What happens when we all become aware that we need to take responsibility for the planet. To care for it, to love it. To use it in a way that it will respond back to us in a positive way. What happens when we decide to stop deforestation, what happens when politicians decide to stop dropping bombs to kill people and in so doing harm the planet. There is a magnificent process going on in nature involving living things that maintains life on this planet. This entire process of nature is mind bogling. Do our politicians understand that when they drop bombs especially A-bombs what disturbance it does to nature.

I think the 8th dynamic involves people, us, nature and our understanding of it. This is what I get from the spiritual side of qauntum physics. Its about people about love etc.

Travers Harris

 

[Mystic]

These "arguments" which include references to various spews from Lips Hubbard are sort of a giggle. The argumenter assumes the reference is valid. "8th Dynamic", so what if Hubbard-thing mentioned such? Any and everything referenced by Hubbard-thing is ad hominem laced with purpose to defraud by default.

And OP is still under investigation for validity, OSAidity or techieness.

 

[AnonKat]

These "arguments" which include references to various spews from Lips Hubbard are sort of a giggle. The argumenter assumes the reference is valid. "8th Dynamic", so what if Hubbard-thing mentioned such? Any and everything referenced by Hubbard-thing is ad hominem laced with purpose to defraud by default.

And OP is still under investigation for validity, OSAidity or techieness.

the dynamics are actually a pretty intresting conceptualization but remind me much of maslows hierarchy of needs

 

[Smilla]

These "arguments" which include references to various spews from Lips Hubbard are sort of a giggle. The argumenter assumes the reference is valid. "8th Dynamic", so what if Hubbard-thing mentioned such? Any and everything referenced by Hubbard-thing is ad hominem laced with purpose to defraud by default.

And OP is still under investigation for validity, OSAidity or techieness.

The is no 'eighth dynamic, or any other dynamic' it is just an idea poured into your mind by your chosen controller Hubbard. Think for yourself.

 

[yon8008]

Firstly I do not presume to be all that well informed in physics but I enjoyed reading your reply. I have read the PL on The Why Is God which to me means you are trying to blame something other than the correct source.

It is difficult for me to explain exactly how to answer with out referring to the source material so herewith a bit from the source.

From Goswami Signatures of The Divine
Jesus lamented, The kingdom of God is everywhere, but people don’t see it. Well, the evidence is subtle; it is easy for ordinary people to miss it. But scientists are special people; they are experts in deciphering subtleties of evidence. Why have they been missing the signatures of the divine? The Nobel laureate physicist Richard Feynman expressed this myopia of the scientists of recent times when he offered this admonishment against unbridled imagination. Said he, “Scientific imagination is imagination within a straightjacket.” The straightjacket Feynman and others of the materialist ilk wear is the straightjacket of the belief system called scientific materialism. And the doctrine that binds the most is the exclusive reductionist doctrine of upward causation–everything is the movement of elementary particles and their interactions.
This entire paper is an exercise in how to take the straightjacket of materialism off our back. I argue that quantum physics is showing us the way by giving us back downward causation and its agent—Quantum consciousness (popularly called God) acting through the observer. In Newtonian physics, objects are determined things. But in quantum physics, objects are possibilities for consciousness to choose from. When an observer looks, the observer’s consciousness chooses among the quantum possibilities to collapse an actuality of experience. Quantum collapse is downward causation.
Our own experience suggests and as the psychologist Carl Jung codified, there are four compartments of the quantum possibilities of consciousness: the material consisting of gross substance that is used for making representations of the subtle; upon collapse this one we experience as sensing. The vital consisting of blueprints for biological form-making; upon collapse this one we experience as feeling. The Mental consisting of meaning substance; upon collapse this one we experience as thinking. And the supramental consisting of archetypes of meaning and biological functions which we experience when collapsed as intuition (Goswami, 2004).

The conclusion of these experiments is radical. Quantum consciousness, the precipitator of the downward causation of choice from quantum possibilities is what esoteric spiritual traditions call God. We have rediscovered God within science. However it is a new paradigm of science, based not on the primacy of matter as the old science, but on the primacy of consciousness. Consciousness is the ground of all being which we now can recognize as what the spiritual traditions call Godhead.

Spiritual Economics
In idealist economics, as people’s higher needs are met even partially, their physical needs reduce, reducing the demand for consumption reducing the wastage of limited material resources. The economy still expands, but in the higher planes where the resources are unlimited (there is no limit on love and satisfaction!).
There is also another related problem with capitalism and material expansion economics–environmental pollution. This is a tricky one. In the short term, production of pollution helps expand the economy by creating pollution clean-up sectors of the economy. Believe it or not, the Exxon-Valdez oil-spill disaster actually produced an economic boom in Alaska. But in the long run, environmental pollution in a finite planet environment is bound to end up with a doomsday of reckoning. Many environmentalists think that global warming has already reached doomsday criticality.
In spiritual economics, material consumption is reduced thus automatically reducing environmental pollution.

Regarding Melting Ice Caps
What if there is a superior intelligence. Universal consciousness.
What if this superior intelligence is us. Maybe our collective consciousness is the 8th dynamic.

What happens when we all become aware that we need to take responsibility for the planet. To care for it, to love it. To use it in a way that it will respond back to us in a positive way. What happens when we decide to stop deforestation, what happens when politicians decide to stop dropping bombs to kill people and in so doing harm the planet.

I think the 8th dynamic involves people, us, nature and our understanding of it. This is what I get from the spiritual side of qauntum physics. Its about people about love etc.

Traver Harris

Cool stuff Traver! I'm really impressed with your references. Please include links in your next post.

I agree with the THEORY that perhaps Consciousness could be the collapser of wave functions, the chooser of choices.

Important to point out that this theory is in disagreement with experiment and common physics community thinking - which goes simply "the wave function evolves mechanistically". No mechanism is given for why it collapses (just like Newtonian physics does not give a mechanism for why the cannon is fired).

[note, you can use the quote button if you'd like to include text from someone else's post. I open multiple quote windows and then copy the quotes into one post for a reply like this.]

These "arguments" which include references to various spews from Lips Hubbard are sort of a giggle. The argumenter assumes the reference is valid. "8th Dynamic", so what if Hubbard-thing mentioned such? Any and everything referenced by Hubbard-thing is ad hominem laced with purpose to defraud by default.

And OP is still under investigation for validity, OSAidity or techieness.

Just because I reference the spew of a Tulpa, does not mean I have adopted his intention. Instead I clarify the concept, nullifying the defrauder.

The 8th dynamic was always "and everything else" - an important mental container. others have said it like this "There are things that you don't know that you don't know" - well all of those things are in the 8th dynamic - a bucket that reminds us that we don't know it all.

To go further and speculate that we might know it all, that there might be an infinite GOD filling that infinitude .... it misses the point. The ONLY reason to talk about an 8th dynamic is to KEEP LOOKING FOR WHAT ELSE IS OUT THERE. The alternative is to say, "And there is GOD!" and then stop looking. The God concept is used by many religions to cause people to give up the idealism of LOOKING and KNOWING for themselves and default on their responsibility to comprehend and mentally integrate reality for themselves.

[example of LRH's deception is to pay lip service to this concept, but then to disallow it from being implemented within the church - "and if you're here, you're on the same terms as the rest of us" - "I've done all the work, now you do it how we say". This is deceptive, because it FEELs and SOUNDs like there is freedom, where there is none.]

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It's ok to theorize and speculate on what could be, that's part of the discovery process - but more important is the LOOKING.

If there is no impact on your life if theory A or theory B is more correct, there is little need to worry about it.

But when it comes to your happiness, I'd recommend linking happiness to things that are most real to you - your personal experience of life, your goals & purposes, and the people that you share the journey with.

 

[Student of Trinity]

The point of making eight dynamics is that you can overrule the first two by appealing to the higher six. Six is more than two, so any amount of damage to an individual and their family can be justified in the name of the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.

Since the lowest two dynamics are fairly well defined, but the higher six are vague and can in practice be defined arbitrarily by Church authorities, this is in effect a system for justifying whatever those authorities say, no matter what harm it does.

Whether it is or has been used this way in practice is not for me, as an outsider, to say. But just looking at the logic of it, the potential for immense abuse is obvious.

 

[AnonKat]

The point of making eight dynamics is that you can overrule the first two by appealing to the higher six. Six is more than two, so any amount of damage to an individual and their family can be justified in the name of the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.

Since the lowest two dynamics are fairly well defined, but the higher six are vague and can in practice be defined arbitrarily by Church authorities, this is in effect simply a scheme for justifying whatever those authorities say, no matter what harm it does.

But if you just view it as a concept or description like Maslows Hierarchy of needs it is neither good or bad it just is.

that said with maslow you need to fullfill the lower basic needs first because otherwise you get messed up

 

[yon8008]

The point of making eight dynamics is that you can overrule the first two by appealing to the higher six. Six is more than two, so any amount of damage to an individual and their family can be justified in the name of the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.

Since the lowest two dynamics are fairly well defined, but the higher six are vague and can in practice be defined arbitrarily by Church authorities, this is in effect a system for justifying whatever those authorities say, no matter what harm it does.

Whether it is or has been used this way in practice is not for me, as an outsider, to say. But just looking at the logic of it, the potential for immense abuse is obvious.

Yes! I wonder how early on LRH saw that this construction would be a perfect tool of control.

(Interesting related thought: If all of Scientology designed with the single purpose of extracting maximum long term money and control from as many people as possible... the approach is to offer as much validity as possible in a structure where the few hidden lies trap and induce payments. Interestingly, if LRH was doing this, he was also smart enough to realize that there is no point in having thousands of incompetent slaves. The great challenge is to have VERY COMPETENT slaves, to allow the slaves to become richer and richer, to always have a more expensive up sell, always have a new higher more expensive more power level to do, and to keep them trapped by their own awe of him and his hyperbolic promises.)

 

[Smilla]

The point of making eight dynamics is that you can overrule the first two by appealing to the higher six. Six is more than two, so any amount of damage to an individual and their family can be justified in the name of the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.

Since the lowest two dynamics are fairly well defined, but the higher six are vague and can in practice be defined arbitrarily by Church authorities, this is in effect a system for justifying whatever those authorities say, no matter what harm it does.

Whether it is or has been used this way in practice is not for me, as an outsider, to say. But just looking at the logic of it, the potential for immense abuse is obvious.

'Tis all about control.

 

[R6Basic]

8th Dynamic:

"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people."
- House

Traver Harris

I guess 'House' never read the Bible... "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord.." Isaiah 1:18

But really all this about universal conscience reminds me way too much of the junk I read and was into when I was younger. I also ran around with psychics, spiritualits, learned how to meditate to tap into the 'void' (when you went there you knew everything, problem is when you return all you know is that you were there), attempted Shaman journeys to find my power animal, looked into witchcraft b/c I figured it was another way to tap into the underlying force of it all, studied Chakras (Yoga energy centers throughout the body - there's seven major ones by the way), had past life regressions, understood that all matter was energy vibrating at different speeds, practiced astral projection, meditated with crystals, worked on projection Chi, KI etc (and I was good at that too, people could sometimes feel me across the room! I could also absorb it), I stopped short of trying to communicate with spirits and 'space brothers' though.

All this before even heard of Scn.

Any way I finally decided that God was not a God of confusion, looked into the Bible and decided that everything did boil down to it and now consider all my gains from the above practices as loss. Call me narrow minded or what ever but now that I know God has the universe under control I can get on with the rest of my life, I play guitar a lot.