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The Empty Well

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
MOCKINGBIRD's NEST The Empty Well
I as many know spent 25 years in Scientology and probably ten thousand hours indoctrinated with "study technology" and many other thousands of hours using " ethics technology " . I have been on staff , lived in Sea Org orgs and met hundreds of Scientologists in person over the decades .

I also in 2014 left Scientology and tried to learn what it really is and does . That is a lot to take on but I have some observations to share . It is a fraud and mind control terrorist cult . It uses covert hypnosis extensively and sublime writing and rhetoric and many elements of mind control and deception from other practices but has no true benefit whatsoever .

In Norse Mythology Odin -the chief and most powerful and wise god - sacrifices an eye to Mimir's Well - a magical well that has tremendous knowledge and wisdom but an eye is needed to use it . Odin sacrifices his eye in the myth and becomes profoundly wise and learns all the magic in the world and the sacrifice is well worth it for what he gains .

in Scientology people often when leaving - including otherwise critical thinkers - claim " Well , with all the people who did all the stuff in Scientology there are too many claims of gains to disprove - so some must be real so there must be workable or beneficial technology somewhere in that " .

Some go on to say things like: "Take away the 'bad parts' like David Miscavige , Fair Game , the SP doctrine , R2-45 , the Tone Scale , Ethics Tech , Confessionals , the RPF , forced abortions , slavery in the Sea Org , OSA , KSW and on and on and people should be free to believe anything they want to ".

I find that very problematic for several reasons : I have found zero workable technology , lots of persuasion and delusion . Some plagiarism , but at best he stole" feel good statements" in other words ideas that FEEL good to think and say and read , stuff like Marcus Aurelius writing about nobility and thought ( Hubbard stole many , many ideas from Aurelius he probably used the Meditations when he needed an inspiring quote to repackage ).

These ideas may not be true but can make temporary appeals to emotion and thereby cause acceptance as true and positive feelings . Hardly miracles or the secrets of life and the universe . Hubbard uses this what is known as sublime writing which stirs emotions and causes ecstasy - a kind of trance state - to get victims willing to trust and enter a happy euphoric trance state and to get them to accept embedded commands (hidden hypnotic statements relying on repetition and variation to be effective ) which he works in .

He in constructing his fraud did not have to write inspiring and enthralling quotes of his own : he did what some modern "musicians " do now - find what worked on others for this purpose of inspiration and "sample" it . He in his conditions says to use "successful actions " . He plagiarized many , many sources - Lao Tzu , Confucius , Marcus Aurelius , and very , very often Crowley and Hitler . Some to disarm reason and others to replace it .

This is unethical influence and not reformable to me . The middle ground fallacy is always the wrong approach to me . Some exes do to save face for all the years fooled but it is another fallacy - an appeal to emotion ( being pride in this case ). It is hard to accept being fooled so much for so long. They need to accept that we can follow and die for beliefs that may be wrong .Many in the Crusades and similar conflicts lived , fought and died for beliefs . All these beliefs are not possibly valid as they contradict each other- so many thousands had to die in vain no matter which faith is true , if any .

I accept wasting twenty five years on lies but for some reason my acceptance and progress are the exception and not the norm .The well we sacrificed to is , was and always will be empty . Sorry - seeing this is vital to facing the truth to me .
 
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apple

Patron Meritorious
Twenty five year is long time to waste. If it was me I would find it difficult to accept, there is no turning back. It is what it is.
 

Leland

Crusader
Twenty five year is long time to waste. If it was me I would find it difficult to accept, there is no turning back. It is what it is.

I did a 27 year stint....and now, another 14 years, out....

How can you say, "there is no turning back"

Yes....the damage to my life has been done....I can certainly attest to that .....

I suppose if you mean "there are no re-dos in life....I would understand that...
 

apple

Patron Meritorious
I did a 27 year stint....and now, another 14 years, out....

How can you say, "there is no turning back"

Yes....the damage to my life has been done....I can certainly attest to that .....

I suppose if you mean "there are no re-dos in life....I would understand that...

Yes:yes:
 

Gizmo

Rabble Rouser
No matter how long & diligently with great care & skill a turd is polished it is still a turd. Always has been a turd Always will be a turd.


Many of us can attest to that.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Freeze a turd and it can be polished, Gizmo, you can polish a turd, but make sure you wear gloves and a mask!

I was cultificated for decades myself. The cult nearly destroyed me, it took my youth, my sense of humour, my connection to family members and my natural adventurous spirit and made me a cold hearted sea org bitch. But it gave me something I valued, something I couldn't live without, something I still miss. It gave me a sense of purpose, even if I was filing awful carbon copies of insane letters to people who bought the cheapest thing they could to escape from a reg, and gave a false address, even though I had little sleep and no protein and my clothes were falling off me I HAD PURPOSE. I was doing more towards clearing the planet than any President or film producer, JS Bach had never done as much for mankind as I had by getting someone to a reg. I was doing something that would mean war and criminality was going to stop, and then we could all write fugues and paint epic paintings.

It has taken me a very long time to be able to relax, to not feel like I have to run around like a headless chicken. To find my own sense of purpose.

There is nothing quite like the certainty a scientologist has in their purpose, it is a comforting delusion.
 

Rmack

Van Allen Belt Sunbather
I think it's safe to say that some people think they are getting 'gains' or whatever the hell they want to label it by participating in the practices of this cult. I'm not sure that there is a difference between perception and reality in this case.

I met lots of people who just loved auditing despite the ridiculous cost. Something is for sure goin' on in these folks heads and they seem to like it. But, as was said, the huge load of other crap that comes packaged with it is not worth the feel-good or even the self confidence that one can gain. It's ruined by the arrogance and blindness you are programmed to adopt.

It's just not worth it.

But, there are other aspects of the 'tech' that seem to have been gotten rid of, or at least hidden very well, that is suppose to do other things.

I don't have the books, but it was in one of the 'eights'. You know the three books? '0-8' '8 8008' or something like that. It was basically exercises where you visualized currents of color -well, I don't think anything was mentioned beyond white- doing various things in your body.

Almost the exact same exercises are given to students in occult groups. Followers of Alister Crowley, for instance, but in many other places as well. Indeed, in the upper grades these exercises
get way more elaborate and involve what could be called direct chakra visualization techniques.

One author, I believe it was Paul Case (the founder of 'Builders of the Adytum'), said that this kind of knowledge was among the most dangerous known to man. Well, I believe he wrote this before the atom bomb was invented, but it's still his point.

There is also reports that in the early days the OT levels included visualization exercises that are identical to 'astral skrying' type meditations from the Western Mystery Tradition. The word is none of that stuff is on the OT levels anymore, and it's all talk to your BT's therapy.

It's like Hubbard was planning on including this stuff in his 'bridge' at first, but backed off on it later on.

Does any of it really do anything, or not? Some people seem to think so. I'm not sure there's a difference between thinking it does something (for yourself) or having it really do something.
 
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?????????????????????

it puzzles me no end how so many stay for decades and leave calling it all worthless

i was active only three years, got much and what i gained has paid huge dividends for myself and others for more than forty years
 

freethinker

Sponsor
Dude please, traffic lights puzzle you.

Just trolling.

You didn't stay long enough to learn the truth by which you can consider yourself lucky. It just wasn't lucky for us.:biggrin:
?????????????????????

it puzzles me no end how so many stay for decades and leave calling it all worthless

i was active only three years, got much and what i gained has paid huge dividends for myself and others for more than forty years
 

Edugui

Patron
Sanity, is the ability to recognize differences.

Tone Scale is a great tool for understanding and dealing with people.
Book One auditing got me off depression. Is an excellent (the best way I know) to make a person better in wellness and sanity.
 

Northern Shewolf

Patron Meritorious
I did a 27 year stint....and now, another 14 years, out....

How can you say, "there is no turning back"

Yes....the damage to my life has been done....I can certainly attest to that .....

I suppose if you mean "there are no re-dos in life....I would understand that...
I think what was meant is that there is no reclaiming lost time....nothing to do with redos, no, just the brave acceptance that it is what is part of your growth as a human being.
Nothing else...just saying :unsure:.
 
Dude please, traffic lights puzzle you.

Just trolling.

You didn't stay long enough to learn the truth by which you can consider yourself lucky. It just wasn't lucky for us.:biggrin:

well i've certainly learned much more from the internet

but i knew much before i started as well because i researched it before i started and i was also greatly prepared by deropp's seminal book "the master game"

and i critiqued the work as i studied

e.g.

at the end of dmsmh ron suggests a vision of a world where only clears have civil rights

that idea was d.o.a. with me. we are born to civil rights which may only be suspended by due process of law. took a long time to get that and it's a keeper...
 

freethinker

Sponsor
If clears have civil rights, that explains a lot.

You are not born with civil rights, you are born with God given rights.

Civil Rights are benefits and privileges granted by government like the capacity to sue and be sued.

I'll take my rights over privileges every day.

It's your choice, God given or government given.

Due process is Common Law, Civil Law is Admiralty Maritime where you have no rights.

The above is just a belief unless you research and find it so.

well i've certainly learned much more from the internet

but i knew much before i started as well because i researched it before i started and i was also greatly prepared by deropp's seminal book "the master game"

and i critiqued the work as i studied

e.g.

at the end of dmsmh ron suggests a vision of a world where only clears have civil rights

that idea was d.o.a. with me. we are born to civil rights which may only be suspended by due process of law. took a long time to get that and it's a keeper...
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
MOCKINGBIRD's NEST The Empty Well
I as many know spent 25 years in Scientology and probably ten thousand hours indoctrinated with "study technology" and many other thousands of hours using " ethics technology " . I have been on staff , lived in Sea Org orgs and met hundreds of Scientologists in person over the decades .

I also in 2014 left Scientology and tried to learn what it really is and does . that is a lot to take on but I have some observations to share . It is a fraud and mind control terrorist cult . It uses covert hypnosis extensively and sublime writing and rhetoric and many elements of mind control and deception from other practices but has no true benefit whatsoever .

In Norse Mythology Odin -the chief and most powerful and wise god - sacrifices an eye to Mimir's Well a magical well that has tremendous knowledge and wisdom but an eye is needed to use it . Odin sacrifices his eye in the myth and becomes profoundly wise and learns all the magic in the world and the sacrifice is well worth it for what he gains .

in Scientology people often when leaving - including otherwise critical thinkers - claim " Well with all the people who did all the stuff in Scientology there are too many claims of gains to disprove so some must be real so there must be workable or beneficial technology somewhere in that " .

Some go on to say things like: "Take away the 'bad parts' like David Miscavige , Fair Game , the SP doctrine , R2-45 , the Tone Scale , Ethics Tech , Confessionals , the RPF , forced abortions , slavery in the Sea Org , OSA , KSW and on and on and people should be free to believe anything they want to ".

I find that very problematic for several reasons : I have found zero workable technology , lots of persuasion and delusion . Some plagiarism but at best he stole" feel good statements" in other words ideas that FEEL good to think and say and read , stuff like Marcus Aurelius writing about nobility and thought ( Hubbard stole many , many ideas from Aurelius he probably used the Meditations when he needed an inspiring quote to repackage ).

These ideas may not be true but can make temporary appeals to emotion and there by cause acceptance as true and positive feelings . hardly miracles or the secrets of life and the universe . Hubbard uses this what is known as sublime writing which stirs emotions and causes ecstasy - a kind of trance state - to get victims willing to trust and enter a happy euphoric trance state and to get them to accept embedded commands (hidden hypnotic statements relying on repetition and variation to be effective ) which he works in .

He in constructing his fraud did not have to write inspiring and enthralling quotes of his own : he did what some modern "musicians " do now - find what worked on others for this purpose of inspiration and "sample" it . He in his conditions says to use "successful actions " . He plagiarized many , many sources - Lao Tzu , Confucius , Marcus Aurelius , and very , very often Crowley and Hitler . Some to disarm reason others to replace it .

This is unethical influence and not reformable to me . The middle ground fallacy is always the wrong approach to me . Some exes do to save face for all the years fooled but it is another fallacy - an appeal to emotion pride in this case . It is hard to accept being fooled so much for so long. They need to accept that we can follow and die for beliefs that may be wrong .Many in the Crusades and similar conflicts lived , fought and died for beliefs . All these beliefs are not possibly valid as they contradict each other- so many thousands had to die in vain no matter which faith is true , if any .

I accept wasting twenty five years on lies but for some reason my acceptance and progress are the exception and not the norm .The well we sacrificed to is , was and always will be empty . Sorry - seeing this is vital to facing the truth to me .

Mockingbird - your posts are among some of my favorites. I applaud your abilities and skills to deprogram yourself so quickly. You also see Scientology for what it really is.

I really appreciate you!

When Mockingbird speaks (posts) - Knows listens (reads). :thumbsup:
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
MOCKINGBIRD's NEST The Empty Well
I as many know spent 25 years in Scientology and probably ten thousand hours indoctrinated with "study technology" and many other thousands of hours using " ethics technology " . I have been on staff , lived in Sea Org orgs and met hundreds of Scientologists in person over the decades .

snip



I accept wasting twenty five years on lies but for some reason my acceptance and progress are the exception and not the norm .The well we sacrificed to is , was and always will be empty . Sorry - seeing this is vital to facing the truth to me .

You are doing pretty much good dude. :yes:
Pretty much amazing to compare where you were one year ago! :duh:

It seems you fiound the courage to admit you had mistaken many things for others - we all did. But facing all the stuff you grabbed in so short time is very much demanding.

I hope you also let your mind take some rest about the ugly truth we discover when we start digging. It is a vital process to digest and tranform.

Wish you the best and to enjoy life and people!

:flowers2:
 
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mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thanks to everyone for answering .:happydance:

To answer some folks Rmack : when I put all the stuff Hubbard used and stole in context one conclusion keeps coming back : he did not ever have any workable technology and just lied and fooled people with a fraud . The simplest way to address a lot of these claims is to say our minds have as a metaphor two aspects that usually are both functioning to some degree and we can tell the difference in them : the critical factor is the part that does fine distinctions , spots contradiction or signs of dissonance and has judgement and can tell reality from fiction . The imagination can make stuff up create images and sounds and scenes that never existed and recreate emotions and ideas - even absurd ones as if real . There are other aspects but that is a sample of how these two functions are different . Hubbard found many ways to blur then eradicate the line separating them - primarily by using mind control ( often hypnosis) to disable the critical factor and then use the victim's own imagination to create the "proof" of the effects of Scientology.

He fooled people into lowering their guard and unknowingly turning off the mind's defenses against exploitation , manipulation and delusion . He then made specific delusions and manipulated the unguarded subconscious ( or unconscious ) mind as the critical factor acts normally to protect your deep inner beliefs , feelings and habitual behaviors and vitally the associations or patterns these have with each other . Usually these patterns are unexamined and run on automatic and are assumed to be proper and correct by people .

The running colors or mocking things up etc. can all be adequately explained as using your imagination to make images and sensations and sounds as that is a capacity you already have . By fooling people while they unknowingly imagine things you can make them gradually associate the imagined images and ideas with your ideas and then get the new associations to become a part of their subconscious and then they believe - as they made the convincing images and "memories "themselves .

Hubbard used our ignorance over how strong our imaginations are and that the critical factor can be blurred and then knocked out to make very convincing "proof" his technology worked . The problem is it does not work as advertised . It works to enslave and delude and demand the critical factor be more and more impaired and the imagination more finely directed to only support his commanded delusions and the slave to submit more totally and become more filled with hidden subconscious alterations and hidden stress as the pre-cult identity and the cult identity are in constant conflict .

It is an induced artificial abusive relationship with the dynamics of narcissistic abuse and domination . The abuser - Hubbard and now DM - demands total obedience with their will supplanting the victim's critical factor , independence and identity . The power holder has a victim and instead of being equals the power holder progressively crushes and humiliates the victim more and more into slavery . The victim has no choice that appears acceptable but to be as like the master and submissive as possible . The victim loses free will and responsibility relative to the master and must without doubt believe the master .

The dynamics of abusive relationships when added to information from hypnosis , rhetoric and mind control -particularly on imagination and the critical factor and how it is replaced in severely abusive relationships -fully explain all the "gains" and "wins" from Hubbard's vaunted tech . It is a fraud ;always was always will be . That it feels good to be hypnotized sometimes does not change that it is not what it is presented as ; there is no tone scale that is a logical fallacy - argumentum verbosity - saying a lot of technical words or having piles of books to make it look like an idea must be authentic as it has lots of supporting "evidence" . The tone scale is many fallacies tied together, but they are lies to control you and not true at all . It took me a lot of work to figure that out as far as I have . I could write a small book explaining where Hubbard stole the tone scale from with humors and Volney and bits from psychology and how to run a con etc. etc. It is a lie that is deep and complex but still a lie to fool you . And make all his enemies appear as one common type - an idea he stole from Hitler .

And Rmack there are differences that are studied and known : These kinds of activities when done with lies as to what they are and do are very mentally harmful as they can induce neurosis and psychosis . Many OTs report feeling like life shrinks and in Scientology this is because a totalist group covertly controls your thoughts, emotions and behaviors more and more so you are crushed but do not know why .

Also these types of practices like hypnotism and guide imagery when misrepresented can lead the victim into delusion and even schizophrenia . Look, the anyone can believe what they want defense should not apply to fraud and lies . People have their minds damaged very much and often family can observe severe negative changes in people who are fooled in these practices . Tests by some academics show the harm in personality and happiness these practices do .

I suggest anyone with the touchy-feely " Who knows if it is good or bad , so anyone is free to do anything , and only bad people put down any practice " idea study traumatic narcissism , and Totalistic Identity Theory and the work of Margaret Singer , Jon Atack and Steven Hassan . Study the Empathy Trap Book , Narcissistic abuse and recovery . Look , not to call anyone a theetie-weetie but evil people exist and they abuse others in certain ways that fit patterns as the vulnerabilities that make abuse possible exist in patterns . Those things are real and the "maybe there are some good things in Scientology , despite the mountains of proof there are no clears or OTs and that most auditing is a fraud and the indoctrination is mind control to enslave and Hubbard was a traumatizing narcissist aka sociopath aka psychopath and the more one looks the more is shown to be fake and stolen , the things that sound good were stolen and did not make miracles in there practices but sounded good ...ad infinitum" attitude keeps the false hope and to a degree the trance binding the victim's mind in place .

By hanging onto hope the abuser will change in a toxic relationship the victim can make themself vulnerable to exploitation and make poor choices . Their is no more narcissistic and toxic person I know of then L Ron Fucking Hubbard ! He NEVER found any beneficial technology - if he did he would have used it to attain gains for HIMSELF !!! He hated the true failure to ever find anything to beat death or become a superman or even just have lasting piece of mind for himself . He only cared about himself and was running a con for everyone else .

To act like maybe there is some good in Scientology is like telling battered and abused women their abusers might change and to give him some more chances . How nice is that ? Without extraordinary reproducible scientifically verifiable proof I do not just call bullshit on Scientology supporters I call abuse .As you are supporting and encouraging abuse in fact . Indie , main cult , Freezone , whatever .
 
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If clears have civil rights, that explains a lot.

You are not born with civil rights, you are born with God given rights.

Civil Rights are benefits and privileges granted by government like the capacity to sue and be sued.

I'll take my rights over privileges every day.

It's your choice, God given or government given.

Due process is Common Law, Civil Law is Admiralty Maritime where you have no rights.

The above is just a belief unless you research and find it so.

yeah!!!

god given rights!

i'm signed up for 'em

trouble is many others aren't. indeed many find the concept mockable

thus we have secular law, civil law...
 

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
As for Commander Birdsong - Facepalm to Infinity...:duh::duh::duh::duh::duh:


Look dude , I do not know what you think is going on but look at being in Scientology as an abusive relationship with a narcissist who first love bombs to seduce their victim and showers the victim with praise and sweet sounding words that can cause euphoria and ecstasy . The intro services can- for a time -SEEM like a real and true benefit . You are buying into a future and having hope raised - with empty promises and counterfeit dreams . You do not know it is all to lower your guard and tie your ego to your relationship with Hubbard , his authority and the perceived validity of the "tech" .

You are like that pretty doe eyed teenage girl who runs away and shows up at the bus station in the big city hoping to be a star and the vilest sleeziest pimp ever saunters over and eyes you as a piece of meat and comes over and spins his rap and you are entranced that he can say "make your next move your best move you know what I'm a' sayin' ? make this your lucky day don't get wit' a zero - get wit' a hero " and after he " breaks you in " he puts you on a corner and says " you're my best girl you put the OH in HO " and has you SCOHB . You are so enthralled anyone would pay attention he has to be good because you need a savior so bad you cannot conceive not getting one .

The words ecstasy , euphoria, enthralled , entranced , and seduced have all been used to describe trance states used by hypnotists and in fact "jive talk" ( and it's successor rap ) uses unusual turns of phrases , rhythm , hooks and pacing to literally entrance . The term hook for music means a part that catches and holds attention - it controls the audience's attention .

Anyway CB , you dodged the more severe parts of Scientology abuse , heavy indoctrination and heavy repetitive ethics . Not to mention the murders , chain locker and RPF .Think of it like you were the high school girl who briefly goes out with a charming jerk type and he rapes , tortures and abuses all his later girlfriends and wives .

Scientology is modeled after a traumatizing narcissist and it in being totalistic over time is intended to completely replace a victim's identity by breaking down with mind control and humiliation and induced insanity the original identity and creating a mental pseudo clone of Hubbard that reflects him in being a narcissist and utterly without compassion but loaded with hidden rage and dark passions as Hubbard was .

You need to leave denial and understand he tortured people including children and he drugged and raped young girls , habitually and he ordered murders of innocent people and had many hundreds die of many causes as part of his con and conspiracy and never lost a moment's sleep over any of it . He researched how to completely control minds with the tech and never sought to help anyone but himself ever . His ego was fed by fooling and abusing people in every way imaginable . I have mountains of evidence and people coming out of the woodwork to tell me the same disgusting stories over and over of how he slept with tons of young victimized girls and raped some as young children to satisfy some desire to dominate and utterly own others via any trauma he could inflict . To him communication and sex were weapons . He experimented on and tortured and raped members of his own family again and again for years . How many times , who knows .


He was the answer to the question: if a narcissist with no conscience got expertly trained as a stage hypnotist and trained in rhetoric and many methods of mind control and had hundreds of enthralled worshippers what could he do and what would he do ? If he enjoyed dominating and psychologically torturing people and knew you need to first build trust to exploit it later .

CB you got off easy : open your eyes and look at what Hubbard really did and was - to not is an insult to all the rest of us .
 
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