The ESMB Unpopular Opinions Thread

Wilbur

Patron Meritorious
I am saying that your own power of choice - that which is inside you to decide to act in your own self-interests OR NOT, is never diminished by any "brainwashing technique." Scientology or otherwise.

This is what brainwashing is supposed to do, isn't it? Diminish or eradicate your own ability to choose or decide things in your own self-interests?

Yeah.

That never goes away.

The proof is when you finally DO decide to leave. If you were brainwashed, and brainwashing worked as advertised, you would never leave.

The power of choice is a very interesting thing to think about with regard to "cults". Much more productive than "I WAS BRAINWASHED!"
When I was in Scientology, I always had the power to leave. I stayed as long as I did not because I didn't have power of choice, but rather because I still believed (in varying degrees over time) that the church was delivering the state of OT. I constantly observed OTs to try to satisfy myself that they had gotten something akin to the claims for the OT levels. For me, people stay if they believe the information given to them by the church. When you stop believing that, then it's not that hard to leave, if you are the only member of your family in Scientology.

If brainwashing means fixed ideas installed in a person's mind, then I don't think brainwashing was much of a factor in my stay in Scientology. If it means false information presented to you that you then believe, because you haven't seen sufficient contradictory evidence, and because that information is presented with such confidence and conviction, and is reinforced by everybody saying more or less the same thing, then it is the MAIN factor in people staying.

I kept my eyes and ears open throughout the time I was in Scientology. I didn't really agree with their attempts to ruin people who wrote books about them. I remember reading Roy Wallis's book, The Road to Total Freedom, and thinking "this book is not all that critical of Scientology, and is fairly balanced". Their attempts to fair game him seemed odd to me. I do think that Scientology breeds fanaticism, but I think people do have power of choice over that fanaticism.
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Here is an opinion that I'm sure will be unpopular: I think, once in a while, @Alanzo is correct.

I don't think brainwashing is part of standard Scientology training or auditing. I do think that the RPF, with mental and physical degradation and abuse, coupled with nightly Scientology indoctrination could very well qualify as brainwashing, but regular Scientologists will not run into that level of coercion.

Scientology does, very certainly, practice thought control -- that's proven by the fact that KSW#1 is required as the first thing in every Scientology course and the PTS/SP Course is usually required for almost all Scientologists. The PTS/SP Course is all about cutting Scientologists away from "bad" information, "bad" thoughts and "bad" people -- thought control.

But brainwashing? I don't think so.
 

Veda

Sponsor
The slang term "brainwashing" is a straw man.

This is similar to the Scientology cult saying that (frame up) Operation Freakout (1976) against Paulette Cooper was never implemented (It wasn't implemented due to complications arsing from the nabbing of Michael Meisner of Snow White fame - long story), and then not mentioning that (frame up) Operation Dynamite (1972) was implemented.

Don't be tricked.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Because he did it every day.

It takes a special kind of person to do that kind of thing every day. And Mike was that special guy.
Now you're being a troll and creating noise, and those impulsively responding to you are troll enablers.

You've repeatedly avoided my questions and my posts because you can't counter them intelligently, and if you were to try to counter them you'd look foolish.

It's time to start ignoring Alanzo before this MB become a junk yard.
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Now you're being a troll and creating noise, and those impulsively responding to you are troll enablers.

You've repeatedly avoided my questions and my posts because you can't counter them intelligently, and if you were to try to counter them you'd look foolish.

It's time to start ignoring Alanzo before this MB become a junk yard.
Aw. But it's fun to play with the little mousey.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
For how long?

How does this look to people newly discovering ESMB?
:hysterical:
It'll look like a message board with lots of different opinions on it, with lots of stimulating debate and fun, non robotic posters who can tolerate new ways of seeing things.

That's exactly what you want to attract new members, Grandma.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Now you're being a troll and creating noise, and those impulsively responding to you are troll enablers.

You've repeatedly avoided my questions and my posts because you can't counter them intelligently, and if you were to try to counter them you'd look foolish.

It's time to start ignoring Alanzo before this MB become a junk yard.
I have no obligation to take you off ignore, or to respond to you.

Ignoring you is not trolling.

/Ignore
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
You surprise me Bill (by your "LOL.")

ESMB's primary purpose is to help others -including newbies - not to be a circle jerk for handful of old members.
Karen must really be putting a lot of pressure on you to "handle Alanzo".

That was my LOL.

And a well-deserved one, too.
 
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