The Ex Scn Personality

SuperPowers

Patron with Honors
I'm trying to keep track of the all the ESMB topics and the multitude of ideas, opinions and whims. It seems to me that Scientology (and its Church) is something one loves to hate, and possibly hates to love.

Scientology (but also other religions) could be seen as a operating system of an individual. When an urge to leave the group is carried out it could mean that one is left with all kinds of artifacts to keep or get rid of.

I myself decided to let the material artifacts (books, meters, diploma etc) hit the garbage collection. It is not easy to keep these items on the book shelf as a constant reminder of something that caused so much hardship.

But what about the immaterial stuff: the ARC triangle, the Tone Scale, the Communication Tech, Study Tech, and so forth? I decided to reclaim my native language which was supplanted with a language invented by the devine Mr Hubbard. For instance, if I like and understand a person I won't say "We have such a tremendous ARC!", nowadays I would just say: I like him or her a lot, what a nice person! I think there is a lot of hype in the teachings of LRH. He was that Devine Source of Life Knowledge, so it was he who had that special gift and expectations to live up to!

However, there ARE pieces of knowledge which I didn't come across until Scn and some of it was groundbreaking at that time, like parts of the study tech. But again, there is the peculiar cultish implementation of the Devine Advice "Look Up The Word" written in every book, and at the start of every course!

So I had a rather rough time after the cult separation. I have been depressed, things have looked dark and meaningless from time to time. There are people who kill themselves in such dark hours but I didn't wanna go that road, so I contacted a nearby medical center and I was fortunate enough to be offered Psychotherapy (CBT). And that was a relief to me. Here was a listening person with real life experience. I learned a lot, how to tacle the emotional stress. At first the therapist and I talked about anything but not Scn, which I was mapped "taboo". Little by little I found Scn to be The Topic to talk about, there was no way around but to get the cult years experiences off my chest. There were the good stuff, and there were the bad stuff. It has taken a lot of time to sort things out. And I feel more free now.

I guess there are many here among of us who dwell in the aftermath of a cult experience which doesn't wear off quite easily. Especially if there are wins.

But all in all, Scientology is a cult which many of us loves to hate, and possibly hates to love. Maybe "Stuck in an incident called Scientology", is a suitable description of leaving such a cult.

If you can't speak freely when in a cult, realize you're not going to be free. Speaking your mind out is the best way to free yourself.
 

Wisened One

Crusader
Very good post, SuperPowers. It IS a rather difficult road to travel when one wakes up from scn.

I definitely went down not the best roads in dealing with our adjustments into the real world, that's for sure! (Thank god our dark times didn't result in such serious acts as suicide too).

But we did similar steps as you: threw away and even burned a lot of our scn stuff. It helped. 'Cuz you're right. Why have all the crap on your bookshelves to see every day, ya know?

I'm also glad to see that you got some help in whatever form you needed.

I used many forms, many books by other authors helped me, but also using some systems like Flowdreaming and Holosync (and similar) helped bring relief to me.

Shedding the lingo is also an important step, huh? For soooo long tho, I couldn't drop some words 'cuz they just seemed to be more concise and accurate (ARC, comm, KRC, solid, granting of beingness, low-tone, up-tone) stuff like that. But now, I hardly ever say or even think those terms (unless I'm on an ex board talking with those newly out or explaining scn to non-scn's, I might explain what those terms mean).

But keep doing whatever you are doing. :yes: And you might want to check out other books, I have a list that helped, if ya wanna know them, PM me :)

Good Luck, am enjoying your posts :)
 
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NeXTep

Patron with Honors
Welcome aboard SuperPowers.

Well for most of us it took some years to completely destimulate. So don't be too harsh on yourself. :eyeroll:
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Interesting superpowers, I have just come to similar conclusions. It has been Ok for me to talk here because most people are exScintologists, but I have only once to talked to one other person about my cult life, my ex. I have resolved to change that and I start councelling tomorow, and I know what I'll be talking about!
 

Papabear

Patron
Right on SuperPowers, I also shed the lingo mainly so I would make sense to other people but also to drop all aspects of the "tech" that I could. Some of my new friends wondered why I said "handle" all the time, I hadn't realized that was a Scn thing. to "handle" something. This made me realize that I spend my Scn life being handled all the time, cause now matter how good you are, if you not the @&#hole giving the orders, you're the one getting handled thereby implying something is wrong with you.

I also had a dark time getting over it all. I still do really, but it gets better every day. I blame myself for not listening to my gut in the beginning and consider it a really important life lesson I will not forget.

The really tough part for me as been the shunning of all belief systems. I just can't get out of my head that whatever system I am looking at now could just be a placebo, just like Scn. All subjective. Hard to accept help in that state. I bide my time though, and throw out the anchor during the dark stormy nights, waiting it out. The sun always comes out eventually.

As far as loving to hate Scn, for me it's the possibility to help others get out, to keep people from getting in without being fully informed and for my own healing. We all know what happens if you are critical in Scn, so what choice do we have but to vent, tell stories and seek the comfort of our brothers and sisters? Sure beats gang bang sec checking!

Here's to our healing and friendship!

Chris
 

Daddio

Patron with Honors
-snip

Scientology (but also other religions) could be seen as a operating system of an individual. When an urge to leave the group is carried out it could mean that one is left with all kinds of artifacts to keep or get rid of.

I myself decided to let the material artifacts (books, meters, diploma etc) hit the garbage collection. It is not easy to keep these items on the book shelf as a constant reminder of something that caused so much hardship.
-snip

SuperPowers, do you also think that it's more difficult to shed Scn, because of a great dedication? I find that the more invested I am in something, the harder it is to walk away. And hi, BTW.

Right on SuperPowers, I also shed the lingo mainly so I would make sense to other people but also to drop all aspects of the "tech" that I could. Some of my new friends wondered why I said "handle" all the time, I hadn't realized that was a Scn thing. to "handle" something. This made me realize that I spend my Scn life being handled all the time, cause now matter how good you are, if you not the @&#hole giving the orders, you're the one getting handled thereby implying something is wrong with you.
-snip

Hi, Papabear! You bring up something I've been thinking about lately. One facet is the investment I mentioned above, but another is the language. I use special lingo in what I do for a living, but is it just a way of making comm happen quicker, less effort? Or is it also a way of isolating a group of people from other groups?

Some good posts here by all! :thumbsup:

Regards,
Alan
 

Dark Phoenix

Patron Meritorious
Great post Superpowers. Thanks for sharing

It's a real credit to you for not giving in to all the darkness you were feeling, and sought the right help. That took a lot of courage. So as already mentioned by NexTep, try not to be too hard on yourself. You can be a friend to yourself now.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
A very good post mate.

For me, the way you socialize with other people was the hardest part to wash away, I really was thinking in the comm cycle and ARC... But it dissapeared over time.

And also, when you look at the diversity of people hanging out on this board, it´s really good proof that most people get out of the cult one sided mentality.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
One point of criticism I've heard from many people- including from a number of my friends in the critic's venues and forums- is that everything in Scn that is valid could be found elsewhere so why not just get those things from there?

I would say that this is hyperbole and not wholly accurate BUT that there is a very large kernel of truth there, all the same. Doing just a bit of reading on/re Buddhism, I've come to see how much LRH was influenced by it. Oh, I knew he had done some reading in Hinduism and Buddhism and had borrowed from those things. But I don't think I realized that so much of Scn is gussied up and amended Hinduism and Buddhism with a dash of this and that thrown in.

I still think he came up with some cool stuff that was more or less original and that he did some interesting adaptations and I see nothing wrong with taking away principles in Scn and Dianetics and using them after leaving the cult and the ology. I don't. Not everyone wants to do that, though. One thing, too, is, as I said, if something is true or helpful, one can know the concept without having to use the jargon. IOW, as they say in school, if you really know something you should be able to phrase it in your own words. Would that not apply to Scn and Dianetics? I personally think so.

In addition, there are things that, IMO, Scn and Dn do NOT focus upon or touch upon very lightly, if at all. Such as the Divine.

So suffice it to say, I do not think that a person's deciding to leave Scn as ology altogether rather than JUST leaving the cult is going to doom him or her to the dwindling spiral, spiritually speaking. But then again, that's why I moved over from being an indie Scn'ist to an ex Scn'ist as of a few weeks ago...
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
I would say that this is hyperbole and not wholly accurate BUT that there is a very large kernel of truth there, all the same. Doing just a bit of reading on/re Buddhism, I've come to see how much LRH was influenced by it. Oh, I knew he had done some reading in Hinduism and Buddhism and had borrowed from those things. But I don't think I realized that so much of Scn is gussied up and amended Hinduism and Buddhism with a dash of this and that thrown in.

Of those things I did recognize from Hinduism and Buddhism, they were pretty period interpretations without the cultural context.

I'm not Hindu, but the people I know who are all seem to take very good care of their bodies, especially the devoted yoga practitioners. It always seemed strange to me that LRH did not take such care of his.

It seems to me that if one is on a path of reincarnating and going up or down (or both, like a wave) a spiral, then having the maximum time in one's current incarnation to set things in motion the right way would be better. And that would involve taking care of one's self.

I know the way "greatest good for greatest number of dynamics" is interpreted in Scn, but if you look at it from another slant and say that nothing could be good for your 3D if it harmed either your 2D or 1D, and nothing could be good for your 4D if it harmed any one of the first three, then maybe the greatest good concept would make some sense. In Scn interpretation, being selfish is no worse (and no better) than giving oneself totally to the 3D.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Although Scientology includes a mishmash of 'other' and 'earlier' thought, it's fair to say that the Scientology versions are a *perversion* of those thoughts. Such as the *glorification* of Self as opposed to the negation of same in buddhism or the mealy-mouthed lip-service to the 'Golden Rule' and biblical thought.

Yes; Scientology is unique. Unique in adding weasel-words and escape hatches to good intentions. 'Never fear to hurt another in a just cause'. Riiiiiiiight...

Zinj
 

Wisened One

Crusader
Although Scientology includes a mishmash of 'other' and 'earlier' thought, it's fair to say that the Scientology versions are a *perversion* of those thoughts. Such as the *glorification* of Self as opposed to the negation of same in buddhism or the mealy-mouthed lip-service to the 'Golden Rule' and biblical thought.

Yes; Scientology is unique. Unique in adding weasel-words and escape hatches to good intentions. 'Never fear to hurt another in a just cause'. Riiiiiiiight...

Zinj

I love it when you post, Zinj!! :thumbsup:
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
:goodposting: SuperPowers.

There's an interesting aspect to scientology that I've mentioned before; the degree of involvement.

For some, the scientological viewpoint (of life, the universe and everything) has been their 24/7 mindset, year in and year out, sometimes for decades. Some scientologists have devoted almost every waking moment to adhering strictly to the "carefully laid-out path". If one goes unquestioningly down that path it can become an extreme of self-abnegation, the very thing Hubbard warns against in a certain infamous writing, passing itself off as "self-realisation".

On leaving scientology; it can take quite a while to arrive at an objective, dispassionate viewpoint of it all. It seems to require a lot of looking at and thinking about things that one has never allowed oneself to consider before (most of us learnt to self-censor in scientology).

IMO, when one finally arrives at a self-determined (it's a real word) view of the truth about scientology, one arrives at a genuine moment of self-realisation.

I'd rather not call it "the Ex-scn personality", I think of it more as getting/regaining a personality.
 

Bee Sting

Patron with Honors
Good post and welcome to the next adventure in your life - FREEDOM, the real kind! The kind that doesn't enslave yourself in your own mind.

Honey Love,

Bee Sting
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Of those things I did recognize from Hinduism and Buddhism, they were pretty period interpretations without the cultural context.

I'm not Hindu, but the people I know who are all seem to take very good care of their bodies, especially the devoted yoga practitioners. It always seemed strange to me that LRH did not take such care of his.

It seems to me that if one is on a path of reincarnating and going up or down (or both, like a wave) a spiral, then having the maximum time in one's current incarnation to set things in motion the right way would be better. And that would involve taking care of one's self.

I know the way "greatest good for greatest number of dynamics" is interpreted in Scn, but if you look at it from another slant and say that nothing could be good for your 3D if it harmed either your 2D or 1D, and nothing could be good for your 4D if it harmed any one of the first three, then maybe the greatest good concept would make some sense. In Scn interpretation, being selfish is no worse (and no better) than giving oneself totally to the 3D.

Been reading a bit of modern Buddhist books and there seem to be a lot of principles and ideas Hubbard took. Oddly enough, in a book by Lama Surya Das, I found an exercise that was very similar to a TR. If that Buddhist had one, then there must be others, and it could be where TRs came from. Among other things.

Yes, it is odd that Scn'ists don't take care of their bodies- at least you'd think the cult leader would want to since HE'S not in line to get worked to death. Well, I think DM might though it's not like I actually KNOW. Hubbard seemed to place high emphasis on overriding, getting ones' necessity level up, stinting self on sleep (he mentions this again and again) and evidently good nutrition, etc. Also lots of rationalizations for smoking and lied about drug taking. I don't know that it's just a do as I say not as I do situation because he didn't put anywhere near the emphasis on health that a Buddhist or Hindu would have in their writings/advice, etc.

I realize one's body isn't oneself and to some Scn'ists, bowing to the needs of the body is tantamount to going into agreement with and being effect of it. But what I would say to anyone who felt this way is: "Are YOU in a state of being where you can move in and out of your body at will? Can you override your body? And anyway, how does stinting on sleep and nutrition become identical with/to NOT NEEDING sleep and nutrition? Those are not the same things." I'd go on to say "Even if you believe that a person can become so capable that they need little sleep and nutrition, neglect is not how that state would be reached."

Part of it's the cultic atmosphere where they're all cogs for the very big wheel of CofS, but some of it is propaganda and out right BULLSHIT about what they need and don't need and how to take care of their bodies. A lot of these people buy into every goddamn quack remedy around then they're all amazed when they're 45 and have no teeth or have cancer or some shit.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Been reading a bit of modern Buddhist books and there seem to be a lot of principles and ideas Hubbard took. Oddly enough, in a book by Lama Surya Das, I found an exercise that was very similar to a TR. If that Buddhist had one, then there must be others, and it could be where TRs came from. Among other things.
<...snip>
I think Nibs wrote/spoke about this somewhere.
He (LRH Jnr) "created" the TRs based on some Buddhist text.
 
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