"The first REAL OT Level" enemy line?

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
I've been on audited nots now for three or more weeks.

I am discovering hidden dimensions and forbidden planes.

If this isn't an OT level I don't know what is.

But I felt that way about what Hubbard called OT 1 thru 3 as well.

I don''t know who started this datumn that OT8 was "THE FIRST REAL OT LEVEL".

Hubbard called them all ot levels.

But somehow this got twisted into OT8 being advertised as "the first OT level".

This contradicts what Hubbard said was the first OT level, when he issued OT1.

It also implies that up through ot7 one is not doing ot levels at all, which invalidates ot levels 1 through 7.

If one isn't being OT on OT 2 then I don't know what one is being.

Does anybody know how this word spread that OT8 was the first REAL OT level and where it came from?
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks.

Do you think he wrote that?

OT8 is a NOTS correction cycle.

Is that LRH reference in any public books or writings?
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Thanks.

Do you think he wrote that?

OT8 is a NOTS correction cycle.

Is that LRH reference in any public books or writings?

Yes, I do think he wrote that issue. The PR about how wonderful Scientology tech is sounds like him. There is also the following paragraph showing his grasp of basic science:

The number of electrons in an atom, the number of atoms in
a molecule, the number of molecules in a drop of water is
awesome arithmetic.

I sound like a critic! Anyway....

The issue is in the published "Blue Volumes", the two-pack series of LRH EDs. It may also be in one or more course packs, but I couldn't tell you which. It is a well-known issue as LRH EDs go.

And why do you consider OT8 to be a NOTs correction cycle? I thought one was supposed to get rid of all those pesky BT thingies all the way from OT2-(New)OT7 and then, finally, after ten years and $300,000, one is allowed to start auditing oneself again on OT8.

Paul
 
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The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
"The number of electrons in an atom, the number of atoms in
a molecule, the number of molecules in a drop of water is
awesome arithmetic".

Taken out of context I can't opinionate on this.

Thanks for the reference!
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
I've been on audited nots now for three or more weeks.

I am discovering hidden dimensions and forbidden planes.

If this isn't an OT level I don't know what is.

You will be no better at the end of this process than when you started, as judged by outsiders. Worse than that, outsiders might consider you have become a little crazier.

I wish the FZ/freezone would come clean on these so-called "OT levels" and just out and say that they do NOT result in any OT powers because OT powers do not exist.
 

Veda

Sponsor
You will be no better at the end of this process than when you started, as judged by outsiders. Worse than that, outsiders might consider you have become a little crazier.

I wish the FZ/freezone would come clean on these so-called "OT levels" and just out and say that they do NOT result in any OT powers because OT powers do not exist.

Being an attempted (albeit, "kinder and gentler") replication of Commodore Hubbard's Scientology, the Freezone has a carry-over of Hubbardian
dishonesty and manipulation.

However, that doesn't mean that every idea that has had the label "Scientology" attached to it is automatically bogus or bad.

The word, "thetan" and the words "operating thetan" are Hubbard's. I don't use these words. However, the concepts are not new with Hubbard, and I see no reason to reject the ideas simply because Hubbard attached his name to them and exploited them.

In other words, I'm not going to do an imitation of a ping pong ball.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
You will be no better at the end of this process than when you started, as judged by outsiders. Worse than that, outsiders might consider you have become a little crazier.

I wish the FZ/freezone would come clean on these so-called "OT levels" and just out and say that they do NOT result in any OT powers because OT powers do not exist.


Outsiders cannot assess whether or not a person feels better or has made emotional or spiritual progress.

Further, anyone who uses "as judged by outsiders" as the sole criterion for deciding to do anything would be someone who either did not know his or her own mind or didn't want to do the thing in the first place.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Being an attempted (albeit, "kinder and gentler") replication of Commodore Hubbard's Scientology, the Freezone has a carry-over of Hubbardian
dishonesty and manipulation.

However, that doesn't mean that every idea that has had the label "Scientology" attached to it is automatically bogus or bad.

The word, "thetan" and the words "operating thetan" are Hubbard's. I don't use these words. However, the concepts are not new with Hubbard, and I see no reason to reject the ideas simply because Hubbard attached his name to them and exploited them.

In other words, I'm not going to do an imitation of a ping pong ball.

Dishonesty in this context seems to mean "not saying what this or that person thinks they should say".
 

Div6

Crusader
You will be no better at the end of this process than when you started, as judged by outsiders. Worse than that, outsiders might consider you have become a little crazier.

I wish the FZ/freezone would come clean on these so-called "OT levels" and just out and say that they do NOT result in any OT powers because OT powers do not exist.
Your criticism is quite just. It is all just a fantasy.
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
I wish the FZ/freezone would come clean on these so-called "OT levels" and just out and say that they do NOT result in any OT powers because OT powers do not exist.

Please define your dichotomous generalities "OT powers" because "OT powers do not exist."

First: List out OT Powers.

Second: Proof of how each does not exist.

Alan
 
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Veda

Sponsor
Your criticism is quite just. It is all just a fantasy.

The wording is a little off.

From Hubbard's 'History of Man':

"Tell people who want to invalidate this, 'Your criticism is very just. It's only fantasy'."

L. Ron Hubbard mixed truth and lies into a glue-like paste.

The blind-skeptics and the true-believers are equally stuck.
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
The wording is a little off.

From Hubbard's 'History of Man':

"Tell people who want to invalidate this, 'Your criticism is very just. It's only fantasy'."

L. Ron Hubbard mixed truth and lies into a glue-like paste.

The blind-skeptics and the true-believers are equally stuck.

I agree, either postion is an exagerated bias.

LRH was a stupid genious, an altruistic con-man, a materialistic spiritual man. A conflict of confusion. A hero, a villain, a lier, a truth-teller. One's best friend and worst enemy.

Scientology was my dream come true and my worst nightmare. I was saved and trapped. It gave me wonderful highs and miserable lows. It was simple and complicated, the best and worst thing I ever did!
 

beyond_horizons

Patron Meritorious
"The number of electrons in an atom, the number of atoms in
a molecule, the number of molecules in a drop of water is
awesome arithmetic".

Taken out of context I can't opinionate on this.

Thanks for the reference!
This is a topic for the Harry Potter Hubbardite semanticists who post here who enjoy dicing and slicing words and meanings about!

Hubbo liked to give the illusion that his thought processes were senior to academics. There is also that thing about Calculus he poo pood! Kids actually discount the value of the education process over this kind of stuff. I know I was once inclined along those lines for awhile.

Perhaps on the subject of OT you might start and focus on the differences between the concept of ‘subjectively’ and 'objectively'.

On the subject of OT = cause over MEST = levitation … I can envision moving, levitating an ashtray from an imagined hand into a scientologically indoctrinated head and vis a vie. I’ll even stand still and allow a scino to return the favor and focus in on mine.

On the other hand, objectively, it seems to always boil down to the use of a biological hand, along with some muscles and bones and stuff, that evolved based upon Pythagoras ‘Sacred Geometry’, fueled by the stuff found in a can of spinach, that produces calories of work measured in ‘Horse Power’, based upon the laws of physics, to get the ashtray up and moving from over there to over here and vis a vie.

That’s what i’m talken about!

And so far this always seems to be a boring subject to debate since it’s already been 55 plus years since this whole notion started as a byproduct of the hubbo OT level’s.

As far as spirituality and who, what and where you are and arn't and what you’re capable of wrapping your mind around and integrating into your thought processes or not… well that’s a whole different matter of subject.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Please define your dichotomous generalities "OT powers" because "OT powers do not exist."

First: List out OT Powers.

Second: Proof of how each does not exist.

Alan

Gnarly OT Powerz - 'at cause over matter, energy, space, time'
corollary - '*more* at cause than that which is *not* 'OT', since otherwise, there would be no need for the label/concept.

List: Null Set - unless you count the ability to actually *believe* self-generated fantasies, over and above the abilities of mortal men (or garden variety humanoids, who, while able to fantasize super-dooper-powerz as well as any 'OT', are deficient in *believing* in their own fantasies.)

Second: 'Proof' - I'm willing to stipulate that OTs are able to believe their own fantasies, so, it's unnecessary to 'proof' it.

Zinj
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
I agree, either postion is an exagerated bias.

LRH was a stupid genious, an altruistic con-man, a materialistic spiritual man. A conflict of confusion. A hero, a villain, a lier, a truth-teller. One's best friend and worst enemy.

Scientology was my dream come true and my worst nightmare. I was saved and trapped. It gave me wonderful highs and miserable lows. It was simple and complicated, the best and worst thing I ever did!

Lionheart,

Yes, I see what you are saying. Should have grabbed the goodies and run :)

Ouran at Ghostdanse.com has a good article about "Know versus Know About".

I have some "know abouts" Scientology that got me into trouble, but I also have some "knows" that I can create upon and contribute to. For example, I just audited someone and it was not "standard tech" but it was damned effective: A little straighwire here, some "Hello's" there, and rounded out with repeater technique to end off with a laughing pc who no longer has that particular unwanted condition, THAT was using my "know".

That kind of total freedom to think for oneself with the tech is not allowed in CofS.

Mr. Hubbard, wholetrack wise, was NOT the original Source of Scientology. Mr. Hubbard did do some recompiling and he did have some great people working with him before they all left.

Does anyone else have wholetrack recall of Scientology?

If one can know the basic mechanics and theory then one can get good results. Throw the rest of it away. We're all grown up and on our own now.
Have some fun, create with it.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Please define your dichotomous generalities "OT powers" because "OT powers do not exist."

First: List out OT Powers.

Second: Proof of how each does not exist.

Alan

Just to help you out, Roland, I made up such a list two or three years ago, not especially a Scn list. Suggested additions are welcome.

Paul
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Somebody has got to be the turkey at Thanksgiving.

I say, Yeah! Let it be! Because I love the holidays!

And I love stuffed turkey, prime rib, goose, duckling, and bacon.

Let's keep all symbiotic!

I'm just saying it's all in harmony.

If everyone had OT abilities or was moving up towards OT the rest might starve to death.
 
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beyond_horizons

Patron Meritorious
Somebody has got to be the turkey at Thanksgiving.

Well the whole purpose of this exercise is to look, poke and probe into all the cracks and crevasse of the turkey and examine all its possible probable manifestations and infestations so as to clean the crap out and trim the fat off! :)

Hopefully our little ones, I assume you have some you care about, don’t end up in a little black box in a deep dark corner compound or a basement of a church some guy called scientology! :)

Besides, it's probably not a wise thing to spend all your thanks in one place!
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Just to help you out, Roland, I made up such a list two or three years ago, not especially a Scn list. Suggested additions are welcome.

Paul

Well done Paul.

That is a decent Life Repair List. :)

Though you did omit Financial Independence - though that is minor with those abilities regained a day at a casino or the race track would achieve that state fairly quickly.:eyeroll:

Alan
 
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