"The first REAL OT Level" enemy line?

Veda

Sponsor
Just a comment on the above. LRH mentions OT VIII several times in the Class VIII course tapes, which means it was in development as early as 1968.

haiqu


I remember Ron working on the OT levels.
The first time i thought he had some one in his office.He was talking for ages,
then he came out to give me a message and he was the only one in the room.He was talking to a tape recorder. Silly me:duh:
He spent weeks doing this,sometimes never leaving the office the whole of my shift.
I only ever caught the odd word,mostly it was just a mumble.
If he showed his face.it was usually to speak to MSH.

As i said in my story,it was hard to stay awake.If i heard a loud splash in the water in the still of night,i wondered was it a dolphin,or a shark:eek:

On occasion we (LRH and I)would go to the teltext office,but he nearly always told me to go off somewhere.I n other words it was private.

Tamasin

How do you know he was dictating material related to OT 8?

Page after page of (transcribed) covert Intelligence materials were dictated around that same time.

'Branch One Hatting Letters', 'Intelligence Actions, Covert Intelligence Data Collection', briefings on infiltration and covert document acquisition, etc.

The output of covert Intel tech and propaganda tech material was major in 1969, just as PR tech material was major in the early 1970s.
 

Ralph Hilton

Patron Meritorious
LRH was trying to get the right gradient to higher levels. The original OT7 was a far deeper level than the one released around 1970.
The old OT4 rundown was intended to get a person into valence after OT3. It involved checking their earlier levels and a process to pull them out of a valence they might have been in.
NOTs was an expansion of OT3 which LRH later found necessary. At first it was just going to be a repair action but then was expanded as a major cash cow.
The current CofS "OT8" goes for getting a Solo NOTs completion out of the valence of other beings that they have been closely attached to for a long time as did part of the old OT4.
LRH described in the early 50s how objective processes are senior to subjective processes. The real OT8 is the first real OT level as it shifts into objective auditing. But with all the renumbering and whatever it might now be OT66.
 

Veda

Sponsor
LRH was trying to get the right gradient to higher levels. The original OT7 was a far deeper level than the one released around 1970.
The old OT4 rundown was intended to get a person into valence after OT3. It involved checking their earlier levels and a process to pull them out of a valence they might have been in.
NOTs was an expansion of OT3 which LRH later found necessary. At first it was just going to be a repair action but then was expanded as a major cash cow.
The current CofS "OT8" goes for getting a Solo NOTs completion out of the valence of other beings that they have been closely attached to for a long time as did part of the old OT4.
LRH described in the early 50s how objective processes are senior to subjective processes. The real OT8 is the first real OT level as it shifts into objective auditing. But with all the renumbering and whatever it might now be OT66.

Anyone who sells the Sea Org era "Bridge" sells a defective product.

For those who have been around for a while, it's not possible to convincingly plead ignorance anymore, no matter how slick or sophisticated the presentation or sales pitch.

Sure, there are still eager customers for it, and undoubtedly these people are better off "doing their Standard Bridge" outside of the Cult of Scientology than inside, but there are alternatives.

Human potential, psychical phenomena, the Paranormal - so many intersting areas - why sell Commodore Hubbard's Fair Game Law-era and Sea Org-era used mental bathwater?

Let's face it, the "EP" (end phenomena) of the Emperor Xenu/Commodore Hubbard "Bridge" is having done the Emperor Xenu/Commodore Hubbard Bridge.

Take what is best in the subject and discard the rest.

That's what many have done and continue to do.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Anyone who sells the Sea Org era "Bridge" sells a defective product.

For those who have been around for a while, it's not possible to convincingly plead ignorance anymore, no matter how slick or sophisticated the presentation or sales pitch.

Sure, there are still eager customers for it, and undoubtedly these people are better off "doing their Standard Bridge" outside of the Cult of Scientology than inside, but there are alternatives.

Human potential, psychical phenomena, the Paranormal - so many intersting areas - why sell Commodore Hubbard's Fair Game Law-era and Sea Org-era used mental bathwater?

Let's face it, the "EP" (end phenomena) of the Emperor Xenu/Commodore Hubbard "Bridge" is having done the Emperor Xenu/Commodore Hubbard Bridge.

Take what is best in the subject and discard the rest.

That's what many have done and continue to do.

The 'pan determined' products of 'The Bridge' are Barbara Schwarz, Mike and Virginia and Koos.

Scientology *works*

Just, not like it says it does.

Zinj
 

haiqu

Patron Meritorious
LRH was trying to get the right gradient to higher levels. The original OT7 was a far deeper level than the one released around 1970.
The old OT4 rundown was intended to get a person into valence after OT3. It involved checking their earlier levels and a process to pull them out of a valence they might have been in.
NOTs was an expansion of OT3 which LRH later found necessary. At first it was just going to be a repair action but then was expanded as a major cash cow.
The current CofS "OT8" goes for getting a Solo NOTs completion out of the valence of other beings that they have been closely attached to for a long time as did part of the old OT4.
LRH described in the early 50s how objective processes are senior to subjective processes. The real OT8 is the first real OT level as it shifts into objective auditing. But with all the renumbering and whatever it might now be OT66.


Interestingly, I've found that using OT skills such as auditing entities objectively of great assistance to expanding my awareness. In other words, running case off others remotely. I wouldn't do that to anyone here, I tend to practice on people I know personally who are in some kind of mess. Or the occasional disembodied entity who happens to show up.

Since we don't generally have the earlier versions of Ron's OT levels available, I try to extrapolate from what I get out of each one as I go, and also use it in broader ways.

I find NOTs to be a fairly lightweight and trivial set of materials, oriented towards leaving one isolated from the matrix at large. This could become a lonely existence at the end. It also doesn't approach any understanding of the structure and organization of theta. Excalibur seems to deal with that aspect better, although I have certain misgivings in those materials too.

Old OT levels IV - VII seem quite sensible as exercises in regaining some basic thetan skills, but I can see why most would need something else first. I think Hubbard assumed wrongly that OT III was the main impediment to becoming full OT on the whole track. That may be so, for the current physical universe iteration, but it doesn't handle anything beyond that.

I take it from what you're stating above that what is generally known as "Old OT levels" are in fact second-generation attempts. In which case there appears to be a whole lot of missing and lost tech at this stage. Don't like our chances of ever seeing any of it, either. After OT VIII it's all R & D out here in the FZ. There is some thought that early creative processing is useful at that stage.

haiqu
 

beyond_horizons

Patron Meritorious
Let's face it, the "EP" (end phenomena) of the Emperor Xenu/Commodore Hubbard "Bridge" is having done the Emperor Xenu/Commodore Hubbard Bridge.

Take what is best in the subject and discard the rest.

That's what many have done and continue to do.
Thats what the halfway house does on a sliding scale. But the advent of the internet completes the matrix.

It’s the objective evidence of the fabled 'Akashic Records' now manifest. A demonstration of progress. Humanities answer to the question on a road towards unity outside a cult's mindset. It was/is hubbardology’s worst nightmare at the same time humanities greatest gift for breaking down the boundaries. Anyone can have a win. That’s why it's called "Yahoo". :)

Don't need the local palm reader, fortune teller, physic guru or, scientologist to pull some answer out of a hat when you can "Ask Jeeves". The search for an answer returns a "Gooooogal" of possible answers to choose from ... or not.

It's just a matter of time. I give thanks to the folks here and the rest of our brothers and sisters of the Universe whereever they be found for this gift!

:amen:
 

Ralph Hilton

Patron Meritorious
I find NOTs to be a fairly lightweight and trivial set of materials, oriented towards leaving one isolated from the matrix at large. This could become a lonely existence at the end. It also doesn't approach any understanding of the structure and organization of theta. Excalibur seems to deal with that aspect better, although I have certain misgivings in those materials too.
LRH said in Class 8 tape 19
"And they're going to have to do it all over again at 7 anyhow. It isn't that they departed. It's that there's other phenomenon of a case at 7, almost as startling as that of 3. And if you make them go back and audit 3 too often and too many times, and so on, you'll start running into phenomena of 7. "
It seems to me that Excal is an attempt to resolve this. However it doesn't address one own interrelationship with life in the way LRH puts forward in the Class 8 data.
I take it from what you're stating above that what is generally known as "Old OT levels" are in fact second-generation attempts. In which case there appears to be a whole lot of missing and lost tech at this stage. Don't like our chances of ever seeing any of it, either. After OT VIII it's all R & D out here in the FZ. There is some thought that early creative processing is useful at that stage.
haiqu
The old OT4, 5 and 6 are roughly what's going around on the net but are not very accurate. The old OT7 that was issued doesn't match up with the 1968 data. The 1968/9 OT8 involved permeation of MEST .
From Class 8 tape 9 :
"Well, there are 6 or 7 more things that are wrong with him, and they're contained in the upper line of 7 and 8. I'm not trying to make a mystery out of these things and say, oh well you find these things when you get to 7 and 8. There are things like postulates and there's things like interpersonal relationships, there's things like the interrelationship with life itself, there's on 8 there is 'who made this damned stuff?' Who made it and also who didn't want him to? Do you see there are things like this. Is somebody standing around holding it there and mocking.. keeping it mocked up? You can get a lot of questions come up. The resolutions of these questions and so on are all that's wrong with a thetan."
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
who made this damned stuff?' Who made it and also who didn't want him to? Do you see there are things like this. Is somebody standing around holding it there and mocking.. keeping it mocked up? You can get a lot of questions come up. The resolutions of these questions and so on are all that's wrong with a thetan."

So, let's check the lunch meat...

Who made it?
Who tried to keep him from making it?

Would you like fries with that?

Zinj
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
So, let's check the lunch meat...

Who made it?

Who tried to keep him from making it?

Would you like fries with that?

Zinj

Careful Zinj, asking questions like that, you might end up in a Gov Job. FBI or FDA.

Or, at least if you don't find the answers, working for MacDonalds!

Alan
 

haiqu

Patron Meritorious
LRH said in Class 8 tape 19
"And they're going to have to do it all over again at 7 anyhow. It isn't that they departed. It's that there's other phenomenon of a case at 7, almost as startling as that of 3. And if you make them go back and audit 3 too often and too many times, and so on, you'll start running into phenomena of 7. "
It seems to me that Excal is an attempt to resolve this. However it doesn't address one own interrelationship with life in the way LRH puts forward in the Class 8 data.

True enough. I've had a look at Robertson's Phoenix levels (OT 9-11 on RO bridge) and they seem to handle some of it. I was also interested in Pierre's comment that from OT12 onwards the RO materials don't resemble Scientology any closer than do EST or Eckankar. Not having seen those levels yet I can't comment further.

I did get some strange and persistent masses showing up while trying to run some 3 again recently, and found that including them in my space rather than resisting them seemed to help. Perhaps I was hitting some of the 7 phenomena LRH was talking about here.

The old OT4, 5 and 6 are roughly what's going around on the net but are not very accurate. The old OT7 that was issued doesn't match up with the 1968 data. The 1968/9 OT8 involved permeation of MEST .
From Class 8 tape 9 :
"Well, there are 6 or 7 more things that are wrong with him, and they're contained in the upper line of 7 and 8. I'm not trying to make a mystery out of these things and say, oh well you find these things when you get to 7 and 8. There are things like postulates and there's things like interpersonal relationships, there's things like the interrelationship with life itself, there's on 8 there is 'who made this damned stuff?' Who made it and also who didn't want him to? Do you see there are things like this. Is somebody standing around holding it there and mocking.. keeping it mocked up? You can get a lot of questions come up. The resolutions of these questions and so on are all that's wrong with a thetan."

Robertson sees MEST as simply discarded creations from older games. This might be so, but to then try to run it as "phi thetans" doesn't work too well at this end. I've run most of the available old OT materials, and while I got some great new viewpoints and expanded perceptions, my general abilities are about the same as always. So there's more work to do yet, although I'm nearing the end of having any attention on Universe 1 stuff and expanding out now.

Very enthused by the Class VIII tapes here too, I've just started studying them and this has helped dramatically. I've never had a problem permeating MEST and when I read that in the transcripts was kind of validated for it.

haiqu
 
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