Yeah - and I hate when guys walk out of the ice-box and start singing.
"The first REAL OT Level" enemy line?
- Thread starter The Oracle
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Yeah - and I hate when guys walk out of the ice-box and start singing.
Interesting brain cell sharing ExScnDude!
If Scn was really developed from its axioms, then there would be no SPs because they, being static too, would have a handlable case, if case handling technology actually came from the axioms.
Yes, from personal experience of SP declare I can say it has the effect of making a something out of you and labelling that something as evil. It was LRH's final get-back at his imagined opponents, his denial of one's nothingness.
Unfortunately LRH did not practice the "self-evident truths" that clearly were not so self-evident to him. He labelled everyone and everything. "PC", "Grade x", "Clear", "OT", "Pre-OT", etc, etc all labels to stick his poopers into a somethingness!
Poor Ron was so enmeshed, himself, into his something that he had to something everything. (invented verb - to something - to make a something of nothing)
If you study real religion you will see it reaches towards the nothingness of everything. It does not label or condemn. Does not classify or codeify. Does not praise or scorn.
I realised this after Scn condemned me to an eternal abyss existence.
If Scn was really developed from its axioms, then there would be no SPs because they, being static too, would have a handlable case, if case handling technology actually came from the axioms.
Yes, from personal experience of SP declare I can say it has the effect of making a something out of you and labelling that something as evil. It was LRH's final get-back at his imagined opponents, his denial of one's nothingness.
Unfortunately LRH did not practice the "self-evident truths" that clearly were not so self-evident to him. He labelled everyone and everything. "PC", "Grade x", "Clear", "OT", "Pre-OT", etc, etc all labels to stick his poopers into a somethingness!
Poor Ron was so enmeshed, himself, into his something that he had to something everything. (invented verb - to something - to make a something of nothing)
If you study real religion you will see it reaches towards the nothingness of everything. It does not label or condemn. Does not classify or codeify. Does not praise or scorn.
I realised this after Scn condemned me to an eternal abyss existence.
spbill
Patron with Honors
Actually, I *have* seen a rotating globe floating in space with nothing surrounding it. Its detail was a little different though - mine was earth-like and it appeared as it would if I were looking at it from some distance away. At the time I had no idea why a globe would just appear like that, but I did not assume I was exterior or that the spinning globe actually *was* the earth - it could have been any planet-like body. The most likely explanation for me is that there are certain ideas/images/concepts/notions pre-wired into the brains of humans which didn't get there as the result of direct experience of something external. I've had deja-vu incidents as a child which would also strongly support this hypothesis (thanks Zinj). These items can differ in the amount of detail they contain from that which is normally expected with sensory-channel inputs, which makes them readily recognizable as strange. The pc knows right away he is experiencing something that doesn't tie in with the other stuff in his life. When the item contained less detail than usual I had a tendency to embellish it. When the item contained more detail than usual I just stood in awe, wondering where it came from while trying to keep it in view as long as possible. Anyone else here have these?
Bill
RolandRB
Rest in Peace
Alan is only kidding. He knows the universe is about the size of a matchbox and is transparent with lights flashing inside.
spbill
Patron with Honors
Alan
Gold Meritorious Patron
It is you who classify and codeify. Who praises or scorns. Who creates the something from nothing. Who creates the modifiers, the restraints the inhibitions, the unknowns.
Who then holographically projects the reality of it all - the rest of us Q&A with it. So that we now have to build organisations and nations to solve those problems you are projecting on all of us.
But your basic justification is: I was only playing with you!
Alan
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Alan
Gold Meritorious Patron
As you move closer in - the Gold turns white.
Closer in still - the whiteness turns into billions of dots - those dots are the planets and gasses.
Closer in still the distances between the dots become vast and vaster.
Closer in still those dots separate into galaxies and solar systems.
Closer in still the galaxies and solar systems separate into specific planets, moons, etc.
Closer in still you locate the planet of your choice and move closer in......before long you have a specific body you surround.
Some go even further in - they go inside the body, then condense even smaller and occupy only their head, some get even smaller and only occupy a cell.....
At all times these are centered within you....if not you are out of valence.
Reverse the process and you recover your spacation and beingness.
Not much to it really......just reach out and expand.....handle what turns on and get the knowldege and know-how to maintain stability at that state, then keep expanding to the next charged level of spacation.
My advice; only process the positive.......allow the negative to come to view and erase it.
Failure to do this positive step and you can rearrange the mind furniture for all eternity.
Alan
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RolandRB
Rest in Peace
As you move closer in - the Gold turns white.
Closer in still - the whiteness turns into billions of dots - those dots are the planets and gasses.
Closer in still the distances between the dots become vast and vaster.
Closer in still those dots separate into galaxies and solar systems.
Closer in still the galaxies and solar systems separate into specific planets, moons, etc.
Closer in still you locate the planet of your choice and move closer in......before long you have a specific body you surround.
Some go even further in - they go inside the body, then condense even smaller and occupy only their head, some get even smaller and only occupy a cell.....
At all times these are centered within you....if not you are out of valence.
Reverse the process and you recover your spacation and beingness.
Not much to it really......just reach out and expand.....handle what turns on and get the knowldege and know-how to maintain stability at that state, then keep expanding to the next charged level of spacation.
My advice; only process the positive.......allow the negative to come to view and erase it.
Failure to do this positive step and you can rearrange the mind furniture for all eternity.
Alan
Surely you weren't fooled by that stupid implant?
Alan
Gold Meritorious Patron
Surely you weren't fooled by that stupid implant?
Implant!!!!!
Implant!!!!!!!!!
Surely you are not one of those believers in that stuff - gawd!
This is real time observation and travel....geez! Some people have the strangest beliefs!
Alan
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True. The huge egos of both LRH and DM belie what one would normally expect of a religious leader. They are both so SOLID! A humongous couple of Somethings.
Being condemned to an eternal abyss existence is virtually impossible given the axioms. Being declared an SP from a Scientology point of view is quite funny when you analyze it.
spbill
Patron with Honors
This discussion is getting interesting :jumping:
The implant angle fits too. Seriously, I was thinking the same thing; Roland must have read my mind
To expand a little... I see what I feel uneasy about when it comes to this whole exterior thing: the arbitrariness of the details. It smells of additive.
Perhaps you can tell us, Alan, how one discerns between what's real and what's been put there for us to think is real? Is there a subtle clue we can use? Guess the more basic question is this: Is it possible to fool a thetan long-term (perfect trap) or can he always sort it all out eventually?
I can handle it. Anything can be fixed. Of course, one may not want to fix it
Bill
That makes a lot of sense to me, it fits.
Surely you weren't fooled by that stupid implant?
The implant angle fits too. Seriously, I was thinking the same thing; Roland must have read my mind
To expand a little... I see what I feel uneasy about when it comes to this whole exterior thing: the arbitrariness of the details. It smells of additive.
Perhaps you can tell us, Alan, how one discerns between what's real and what's been put there for us to think is real? Is there a subtle clue we can use? Guess the more basic question is this: Is it possible to fool a thetan long-term (perfect trap) or can he always sort it all out eventually?
I can handle it. Anything can be fixed. Of course, one may not want to fix it
Bill
spbill
Patron with Honors
Aha! Alan's answer is coming through now:
"Everything can be resolved but sometimes it requires a leap of faith"
You are somethinging the nothing, of course!
How materialistic or religious or spiritual is any cult or movement? How much does it something and how much does it nothing?
To something - to make a something of the nothing.
To nothing - to recognise and move towards the nothing that is the sorce of everything
ExScnDude - Instaed of the phrase "big being" we could substitute "Big Somethings!"
Yes, the something of SP is hilarious when you look it from the Scn axioms. Unfortunately the Big Something, LRH, rarely did that! He felt safer to something all of us into his pigeon holes.
You are somethinging the nothing, of course!
How materialistic or religious or spiritual is any cult or movement? How much does it something and how much does it nothing?
To something - to make a something of the nothing.
To nothing - to recognise and move towards the nothing that is the sorce of everything
ExScnDude - Instaed of the phrase "big being" we could substitute "Big Somethings!"
Yes, the something of SP is hilarious when you look it from the Scn axioms. Unfortunately the Big Something, LRH, rarely did that! He felt safer to something all of us into his pigeon holes.
Isn't one of the SP characteristics "to making nothing out of"?
Isn't that what we did in auditing and C/Sing others - undoing the agreements that made a something out of a nothing?
Then shouldn't this SP characteristic be more aptly stated as "making something of someone?"
Help, I think I just sprained my something!
Alan
Gold Meritorious Patron
This discussion is getting interesting :jumping:
That makes a lot of sense to me, it fits.
The implant angle fits too. Seriously, I was thinking the same thing; Roland must have read my mind
Realize when you are dealing with exterior you are dealing with the basic basic Prime Position of your making something from nothing.
You have taken the formless substance - the pure essence of Spirit - Spirita - and given it form and position.
There is not one smidgen of any creation or case condition that has not been the effect of this form and position.
As you begin to expand your space you the spiritual begin to rise up scale. You get bigger.
In that expanding growth a natural occurrence occurs. The basic basic Prime Position of your making something from nothing in its purest state is capable of infinite presence, infinite aliveness, infinite energy, infinite powers, infinite duplication, infinite permeation, infinite intelligence, infinite abilities, infinite cleverness, infinite strengths, infinite skills, infinite creation, infinite love, infinite truth, infinite harmony, infinite knowledge, infinite know-how, infinite responsibility, infinite control, infinite experience, infinite exchange and infinite integrity.
It should be noted that each one of these infinite capabilities also has almost no mass, no motion, no wavelength, no form, no limitation, no location in space or in time nor are they mental things nor are they physical things.
At the top of the scale there is incredible certainty of position ? creation (be) ? action (do) ? and result (have) occur almost instantly.
As you begin to limit your space it takes longer for your creation (be) ? action (do) ? and result (have) to occur. Thus you use more energy and effort to move something = E- Motion.
The Zones I use are a simple scale of spacation and size of games playing.
Thus when you have position, energy and effort to move something; you have created a mood ? this is what defines a mood. Position/Attitude plus Emotion = mood.
The mood is the quality and quantity of life force particles flowing between terminals and relay points within the space thence within the game.
By knowing a persons mood level you can easily ascertain if they are exterior or interior.
It takes very little to recover a person?s certainty on their moods.
Perception is another matter as the ability to perceive in an area is monitored by how much charge is in the area.
Yes! Know what your mood level is at all times.
The most deadly area you will run into are the virtual reality implants. These are so close to actual incidents that it is almost impossible to tell the difference - the only way I could differentiate them was by mood level and the Green Zone Truth Phenomena.
I can handle it. Anything can be fixed. Of course, one may not want to fix it
Bill
To fix it with fun and certainty you need to be able to handle what ever comes up - it will range from a stuck picture to a full grown Games Matrix package.
Alan
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Veda
Sponsor
Ironically, Hubbard may have done some of his most interesting work (circa 1954), in Phoenix, Arizona, while under the influence of stimulants of various kinds, and also Peyote.
But to address the issue of OT 2 and OT...
"Doing OT 2" is "being OT." Really?
Being handed the confidential LRH materials for one's first really serious "OT level," (OT2) and then sitting down, in a quiet room, turning on the e-meter, getting the paperwork ready and, then, reading lists of Hubbard-invented implants, their descriptions, and accompanying dates, and swishing it around in one's mind, and watching the e-meter for - whooooooooeeeeeeeeee - those sudden needle reactions and, then, becoming excited at *that*, and maybe even getting, if one really gets into it, a floating - whoooooooeeeeeee zoweeeeeeeee!!! - a floating Tone Arm!
That's called being psyched-out by L. Ron, that's not being "OT."
I don't usually use the term "OT," as it contains that suspicious Hubbard-invented word, "thetan," and I don't wish to be caught up - at the effect end - in one of Hubbard's dark practical word-jokes, but I appreciate the idea of a sovereign spiritual being.
But "OT 2" ain't "being OT," IMO.
Important note: These views are mine alone, and are not intended to be universal pronouncements. They do not have the power to negate any actual benefits attained from any action; however, displacement of Hubbardian mental-fish-hooks may cause brief discomfort. Reports indicate that complete removal of all standard LRH mental-hooks can be accomplished without loss of any actual benefits.
In other words, all you Scientology Standard Tech OTs, please remain c___a___l___m____.
OHTEEATE
Silver Meritorious Patron
OT 2
Veda, I was ok with your post right up to the whoooooeeeeee part. In all fairness, the expected big charge runout did occur for me on OT 2. There were surges that stood the hair up on the back of my neck. They were not imaginary. The tone arm blew down, many times. As I moved through it, day by day, the charge reduced, and I finally could not even get real reads, and attested. I don't know what Hubbard was tying into, particularly, I just ran what I was supposed to, they way I was trained to, and got the expected results. I am NOT however, saying it "is OT". I did OT 8, and it was almost an OT level. The effect lasted about 3 weeks. It was pretty cool for those 3 weeks. I'd like it if that was stable. I had the personal space of about 1/2 mile in diameter. In short, although he screwed up in many areas including the truth about his past and where he got stuff, he really did put out some amazing personal auditing instructions that could be learned and experienced. In all my Doubt maunderings, I still have to say OT 2, 3 and on up was pretty interesting. I wouldn't advise anyone spending the half million dollars it costs, though. Not until it has settled out for a few centuries of trial and error. If it lasts that long. Being a guniea pig(aka pioneer) is painful!
Veda, I was ok with your post right up to the whoooooeeeeee part. In all fairness, the expected big charge runout did occur for me on OT 2. There were surges that stood the hair up on the back of my neck. They were not imaginary. The tone arm blew down, many times. As I moved through it, day by day, the charge reduced, and I finally could not even get real reads, and attested. I don't know what Hubbard was tying into, particularly, I just ran what I was supposed to, they way I was trained to, and got the expected results. I am NOT however, saying it "is OT". I did OT 8, and it was almost an OT level. The effect lasted about 3 weeks. It was pretty cool for those 3 weeks. I'd like it if that was stable. I had the personal space of about 1/2 mile in diameter. In short, although he screwed up in many areas including the truth about his past and where he got stuff, he really did put out some amazing personal auditing instructions that could be learned and experienced. In all my Doubt maunderings, I still have to say OT 2, 3 and on up was pretty interesting. I wouldn't advise anyone spending the half million dollars it costs, though. Not until it has settled out for a few centuries of trial and error. If it lasts that long. Being a guniea pig(aka pioneer) is painful!
Terril park
Sponsor
Not even Hubbard referred to OT 2 comps as " OTs". They were pre OTs.
I sat down to do OT 2. I had no expectations of it iether working or not working. I was also somewhat familiar with OT 3 materials at that time.
I followed instructions. It hit me like a ton of bricks. Many somatics and stuff turned on and then off and I had great wins. Loads of reads and FTAs
also.
This has been the experience of all in the FZ who were ready to do this level. I know of no exceptions.
Did you not get any gains on this level?
BTW It cost me £500. This included re treading meter drills and the solo course.
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