"The first REAL OT Level" enemy line?

[Veda]

Not even Hubbard referred to OT 2 comps as " OTs". They were pre OTs.

I sat down to do OT 2. I had no expectations of it iether working or not working. I was also somewhat familiar with OT 3 materials at that time.

I followed instructions. It hit me like a ton of bricks. Many somatics and stuff turned on and then off and I had great wins. Loads of reads and FTAs
also.

This has been the experience of all in the FZ who were ready to do this level. I know of no exceptions.

Did you not get any gains on this level?

BTW It cost me £500. This included re treading meter drills and the solo course.

OT 2 places a person at effect; it's not auditing, except in the most superficial sense. That it may feel good, or provide a thrill, only means that those with that experience will stick on it, as an "aberrative pleasure moment" or experience - an experience where they were subtly overwhelmed by something they didn't fully understand.

I'm only interested in actual auditing, and that means knowing what I'm doing, and causatively looking.

 

[Terril park]

OT 2 places a person at effect; it's not auditing, except in the most superficial sense. That it may feel good, or provide a thrill, only means that those with that experience will stick on it, as an "aberrative pleasure moment" or experience - an experience where they were subtly overwhelmed by something they didn't fully understand.

I'm only interested in actual auditing, and that means knowing what I'm doing, and causatively looking.

Please provide some plausible scenario why these totally off the wall
processes actually work.

OT2 is described as Ditch Digging. Abberative pleasure???

 

[Terril park]

My first sucess story on OTII
bb

Success on OT 2


Here in beautiful Semmering I've just Started to dip my toes into OT 2. Instructed by Ralph Hilton.Getting there is a big win in itself and another story.

This is auditing unlike any I've ever done, over and above being my own auditor. I've had the strangest sensations, somatics and all sorts turn on and then turn off. Its been fascinating. went a litle exterior a couple of times which is always nice. Still not sure of what wins exactly I've got, as is often the case for me. At least not until some time after.

One of the wins is the almost, magical, ( I can't think of a more appropriate word) way this tech is working. I was running some wholetrack concepts, and things went quite well. Went out to lunch and found that after a few minutes of walking I felt as though I was on drugs. This is very odd because the only drug experience I've had worth talking about is on one occasion smoking pot some decades ago. Then on the Purif, Some remnants of general anaesthetics were dredged up and affected me and then ran out. That was also a long time ago. I've never had any drug type feelings since. Or had anything since but aspirin and alcohol. So I carried on with the next related concepts on OT 2. The drugged feeling vanished. I felt very good. I was astonished that these sensations could be turned on and off by such simple concepts. Well I've just been doing this for a few days, and have lots to look forward to.

This level has turned things on stronger, faster and more often than anything else I've ever done. Have only done a few hours so far. It looks as though I've got a few hundred to go. I'm looking forward to this. Looks like some trip.


For more information on services in the Freezone,
mail me, Terril Park, at [email protected]
This address can also be found in the next URL.

To find out more about us and to join our
forums see our websites at :-

http://www.freewebs.com/techoutsidethecofs

http://internationalfreezone.net

Below one may see a British TV program of
scientology as its used.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=1786568759674213741&q=begin...

For those who are quite new to the subjects of
Dianetics and Scientology, we have a forum where
your questions can be answered, and their is a minimum
of the quite extensive specialised terminology of
these subjects. The forum website also has a couple of
dictionaries of scientology terms.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Freezone101

 

[haiqu]

Ashtrays in space

On the subject of OT = cause over MEST = levitation … I can envision moving, levitating an ashtray from an imagined hand into a scientologically indoctrinated head and vis a vie. I’ll even stand still and allow a scino to return the favor and focus in on mine.

In considering a pre-emptive strike for this insult to OT abilities, I couldn't see any ashtrays in your vicinity. Non-smoker perhaps? Or maybe you just don't keep them in the bedroom ...

 

[RolandRB]

Please provide some plausible scenario why these totally off the wall
processes actually work.

OT2 is described as Ditch Digging. Abberative pleasure???

You say "work"? Work to do what? Make you happy? Blow your mind? As a generator of Success Stories? So you sit down with an e-meter, read ridiculous phrases that make no sense and then look at the positive feedback you are giving the needle on the dial. Yes, the needle goes all over the place. You have been "educated" to believe that TA movement equals "charge" off a "case" and you see a lot of this movement put there by your own inspection of it and you think you are losing "whole-track charge" and "freeing yourself" and giving yourself the chance to become OT and your thinking this causes more TA movement and your seeing the TA movement and getting elated causes more TA movement......

It's just so pathetic.

 

[OHTEEATE]

OT II

SPs really HATE OT phenomenon! No, Roland, you see it's something that is so heavily charged, on any case properly set up to run it, that you can FEEL it, like the hair on the back of your neck actually stands up, like you feel a rush of electrical energy discharge from your body. The needle doesn't just move to the right, the Tone Arm BLOWS DOWN, and charge is released. When you get through it enough that this no longer happens, you attest and go do OT 3. The point is, charge off the case. That is all you are going for. The words are what releases the charge, because they were implanted in a way that keeps the charge in place with CONCEPTS of opposed forces. It's so simple, even a caveman can do it. I know, I know, you reject it, don't believe it, will never believe it, I'm crazy, yeah got it. Ha ha ha ha! Mike

 

[Veda]

SPs really HATE OT phenomenon! No, Roland, you see it's something that is so heavily charged, on any case properly set up to run it, that you can FEEL it, like the hair on the back of your neck actually stands up, like you feel a rush of electrical energy discharge from your body. The needle doesn't just move to the right, the Tone Arm BLOWS DOWN, and charge is released. When you get through it enough that this no longer happens, you attest and go do OT 3. The point is, charge off the case. That is all you are going for. The words are what releases the charge, because they were implanted in a way that keeps the charge in place with CONCEPTS of opposed forces. It's so simple, even a caveman can do it. I know, I know, you reject it, don't believe it, will never believe it, I'm crazy, yeah got it. Ha ha ha ha! Mike

OT 2 is not auditing.

It's a gimmick, and would have little or no impact on the person without the hype and build up, and the e-meter to convince - and psych - the person.

Hubbard used it as one means of mentally hooking people.

It has nothing to do with "OT phenomena."

Some people benefit from doing *anything*, so this is not to say no one can benefit from OT 2, but it's a trade off. You lose something too, and for what? A temporary buzz? A temporary psych-out?

Actual auditing, and also actual paranormal phenomena, both exist apart from such silliness.

Note added later:

OT 2 is not, primarily, about dichotomies, or "concepts of opposing forces." Such concepts could be addressed in other ways. OT 2 is, primarily, about hype, seriousness and secrecy, and L. Ron Hubbard telling people the contents of their own minds, and having them thank him for it.

It's the opposite of what "auditing," in the best sense of the word, should be.

And, by the way, OT 3, as has been mentioned elsewhere, is not, primarily, about "exorcism," but about being tricked into being the *effect* of Hubbard, while rejoicing in being "free from overwhelm."

Anyone desiring an exorcism type action, or wishing to explore that general area, can do so in other ways.

 

[RolandRB]

SPs really HATE OT phenomenon! No, Roland, you see it's something that is so heavily charged, on any case properly set up to run it, that you can FEEL it, like the hair on the back of your neck actually stands up, like you feel a rush of electrical energy discharge from your body. The needle doesn't just move to the right, the Tone Arm BLOWS DOWN, and charge is released. When you get through it enough that this no longer happens, you attest and go do OT 3. The point is, charge off the case. That is all you are going for. The words are what releases the charge, because they were implanted in a way that keeps the charge in place with CONCEPTS of opposed forces. It's so simple, even a caveman can do it. I know, I know, you reject it, don't believe it, will never believe it, I'm crazy, yeah got it. Ha ha ha ha! Mike

If it were audited on you by someone else then I doubt anything would happen. Why isn't it done that way in any case? Does auditing not work better if done by a competent other terminal? It needn't take long so why solo-audit? All that is happening is the person is observing their own reactions on the needle and reacting to it and reacting to that and so on. It doesn't matter what is on that level, so long as you believe it must be a sort of magic and be good for you. It is Hubbard's test. He knew that if a person did that level and attested with rave success then he could rip them off as much as he liked. He would rip off some people for half a million dollars after pulling that one off.

If all this whole-track charge were coming off then where are the graduates' whole-track OT powers? Truth is there is no whole track, no OT powers and no "charge" to go with it except for what you conned yourself into believing.

 

[Veda]

If it were audited on you by someone else then I doubt anything would happen. Why isn't it done that way in any case? Does auditing not work better if done by a competent other terminal? It needn't take long so why solo-audit? All that is happening is the person is observing their own reactions on the needle and reacting to it and reacting to that and so on. It doesn't matter what is on that level, so long as you believe it must be a sort of magic and be good for you. It is Hubbard's test. He knew that if a person did that level and attested with rave success then he could rip them off as much as he liked. He would rip off some people for half a million dollars after pulling that one off.

If all this whole-track charge were coming off then where are the graduates' whole-track OT powers? Truth is there is no whole track, no OT powers and no "charge" to go with it except for what you conned yourself into believing.

Agree with your main statement here, but your last sentence is an oversimplification. Why give Hubbard so much power? Hubbard shouldn't be allowed to have the power to discredit spirituality, the human soul, memory, the paranormal, the extraordinary, or even people's notions regarding the manifestations of conflict and trauma, and the traces or residue of conflict and trauma, and their possible resolution.

Hubbard didn't invent or discover these areas or ideas, and he should not be able to discredit them by exaggeration, or by having exploited them.

If you wish to reject any aspects of spirituality, the paranormal, etc., then why not walk there on your own - why let Hubbard push you there?

 

[Terril park]

OT 2 is not auditing.

It's a gimmick, and would have little or no impact on the person without the hype and build up, and the e-meter to convince - and psych - the person.

Hubbard used it as one means of mentally hooking people.

It has nothing to do with "OT phenomena."

Some people benefit from doing *anything*, so this is not to say no one can benefit from OT 2, but it's a trade off. You lose something too, and for what? A temporary buzz? A temporary psych-out?

Actual auditing, and also actual paranormal phenomena, both exist apart from such silliness.

Please comment on the quotes re explosions.

 

[Vinaire]

You say "work"? Work to do what? Make you happy? Blow your mind? As a generator of Success Stories? So you sit down with an e-meter, read ridiculous phrases that make no sense and then look at the positive feedback you are giving the needle on the dial. Yes, the needle goes all over the place. You have been "educated" to believe that TA movement equals "charge" off a "case" and you see a lot of this movement put there by your own inspection of it and you think you are losing "whole-track charge" and "freeing yourself" and giving yourself the chance to become OT and your thinking this causes more TA movement and your seeing the TA movement and getting elated causes more TA movement......

It's just so pathetic.

Just curious, what are you educated to believe?

.

 

[Vinaire]

If it were audited on you by someone else then I doubt anything would happen. Why isn't it done that way in any case? Does auditing not work better if done by a competent other terminal? It needn't take long so why solo-audit? All that is happening is the person is observing their own reactions on the needle and reacting to it and reacting to that and so on. It doesn't matter what is on that level, so long as you believe it must be a sort of magic and be good for you. It is Hubbard's test. He knew that if a person did that level and attested with rave success then he could rip them off as much as he liked. He would rip off some people for half a million dollars after pulling that one off.

If all this whole-track charge were coming off then where are the graduates' whole-track OT powers? Truth is there is no whole track, no OT powers and no "charge" to go with it except for what you conned yourself into believing.

You sound very much like Alanzo!

Good logic. I say!

.

 

[Veda]

OT 2 is not auditing.

It's a gimmick, and would have little or no impact on the person without the hype and build up, and the e-meter to convince - and psych - the person.

Hubbard used it as one means of mentally hooking people.

It has nothing to do with "OT phenomena."

Some people benefit from doing *anything*, so this is not to say no one can benefit from OT 2, but it's a trade off. You lose something too, and for what? A temporary buzz? A temporary psych-out?

Actual auditing, and also actual paranormal phenomena, both exist apart from such silliness.

Note added later:

OT 2 is not, primarily, about dichotomies, or "concepts of opposing forces." Such concepts could be addressed in other ways. OT 2 is, primarily, about hype, seriousness and secrecy, and L. Ron Hubbard telling people the contents of their own minds, and having them thank him for it.

It's the opposite of what "auditing," in the best sense of the word, should be.

And, by the way, OT 3, as has been mentioned elsewhere, is not, primarily, about "exorcism," but about being tricked into being the *effect* of Hubbard, while rejoicing in being "free from overwhelm."

Anyone desiring an exorcism type action, or wishing to explore that general area, can do so in other ways.

Please comment on the quotes re explosions.

If you wish to be a wind up doll for your beloved Commodore, that's your business.

It's only when you peddle the ego-crazed Commodore's booby-trapped Xenu "Bridge" that some people become concerned.

$cientology Inc., along with the goofy part of the "Freezone," specifically, the "Commodores' Standard tech" and "Ron's Orgs" people, have done more to discredit the idea of "auditing," and the idea of the "paranormal" or "psychical," than a bus load of the most ardent critics could.

I can't change human nature. I can't stop you from seeing "Commodore" Hubbard's face on the bottom of an empty peanut butter jar, and building a shrine to that peanut butter jar, any more than I can prevent someone else from insisting that all peanut butter jars are bad.

 

[Tanstaafl]

Do those who try to get some kind of "point" across in offensive, personal terms have any degree of introspection? Isn't this an indicator that they just can't confront things as they are? Doesn't this mean that they will make no personal or spiritual progress no matter what their beliefs?

Just curious.

 

[Zinjifar]

Do those who try to get some kind of "point" across in offensive, personal terms have any degree of introspection? Isn't this an indicator that they just can't confront things as they are? Doesn't this mean that they will make no personal or spiritual progress no matter what their beliefs?

Just curious.

Oh! The irony!!

Zinj

 

[beyond_horizons]

Doesn't this mean that they will make no personal or spiritual progress no matter what their beliefs?

Just curious.

Way I see it, It’s about the rewriting of concepts such as “mind over matter” into hubbo notions, with hubbo connotations, like Terril claiming to move a tiny piece of paper from finger to finger back when he was on OT 2 while knowing absolutely nothing about the properties of static electricity and the fact that by standing up from a plastic covered chair is capable of generating 6,000 volts of tribocharge.

Later on , under the constant pressure to elaborate and demonstrate some better evidence of his new found powers, he had to fess up, get real, and qualify the OT hubbosim by stating that by simply standing up and walking over to the bathroom qualifies one as OT.

And by now we know that hubbo OT stands for the ability to be 'Overly Talkative', especially when it comes to spewing forth words on message boards, where over active imaginations do the wondrous things that the hubbo OT is supposed to do.

So what does this have to do with gains or making any spiritual progress and developing mind over matter to live a better life?

If the ability to operate a toilet is the definitive testimonial, I hereby attest to; Hubbo OT … “Cause Over Pee” , in addition to many other wondrous things hubboites can only imagine!

 

[Alanzo]

Do those who try to get some kind of "point" across in offensive, personal terms have any degree of introspection? Isn't this an indicator that they just can't confront things as they are? Doesn't this mean that they will make no personal or spiritual progress no matter what their beliefs?

Just curious.

I think Veda is a brilliant poster with much to contribute.

 

[Tanstaafl]

I think Veda is a brilliant poster with much to contribute.

I've found some of Veda's posts interesting and thought-provoking.
My post wasn't specifically focussed on Veda.
My post was about the tone of communication, not the points or arguments put across by some on this forum.
As for myself, I am dismissive of certain beliefs and practices, etc.

The purpose of my post was to put something out there and see where it went. Sometimes it goes nowhere or has a negative result. Sometimes it goes somewhere interesting and I learn something. Sometimes you can learn a lot about people by the way they interpret the intention of a post.

Everyone on the forum has something to contribute.

 

[Tanstaafl]

Oh! The irony!!

Maybe some people are happy with themselves and are not looking to make any kind of personal/spiritual improvement. I, for one, am sincerely happy for them.

 

[Alanzo]

I've found some of Veda's posts interesting and thought-provoking.
My post wasn't specifically focussed on Veda.
My post was about the tone of communication, not the points or arguments put across by some on this forum.
As for myself, I am dismissive of certain beliefs and practices, etc.

The purpose of my post was to put something out there and see where it went. Sometimes it goes nowhere or has a negative result. Sometimes it goes somewhere interesting and I learn something. Sometimes you can learn a lot about people by the way they interpret the intention of a post.

Everyone on the forum has something to contribute.

I see what you are saying now. Since it was right after Veda's post, I assumed that you were commenting on Veda specifically.

But you were just spitballing - throwing it out there to see if it would stick.

Well all right then.

I think "progress", as in spiritual "progress", is undefinable except for one's self.

And so I don't know if people who are offensive can't confront things as they are or if they will make any personal or spiritual progress.

I do know that a lot of times Scientologists have used auditing to try to change what they find offensive in others, and to make them have "progress" and not do any more what they found offensive.

I'm sure that, after Veda's comment, there are Scientologists right now wishing Veda would "clear his MU", or "get off his overts", or "do power processing" or something so that he would not think what he thinks and write about what he writes about, and by that, make "spiritual progress" in their eyes.

And there are husbands who wish their wives would just get the right auditing session so they would not be so offensive to them, and make spiritual progress.

A lot of very offensive things have gone on in human history to try to get others to make "spiritual progress".

Lately, I'm trying not to be concerned with it. Maybe if we all try to look at our own spiritual progress, or say fuck spiritual progress altogether, we'd all be better off.