The Flag Order Thread

AngeloV

Gold Meritorious Patron
This is an insane order. (big surprise). Punishing an officer for the offense of a junior "EVEN IF THE OFFICER DID NOT KNOW OF THE OFFENSE" is completely wrong. Talk about the 'wrong target. One of the biggest reasons for the insane culture of the SO is because people were asked to do things they were never trained to do. And the Old Quack had specific policies that stated that not knowing a post was no excuse for not doing your job properly. Insane.

SO 'officers' were never trained to lead. They had no clue as to how to manage a team or project properly. They just guessed at how to do it and often descended into yelling and barking at people to 'get the job done'. Leadership by yelling is demoralizing and shows weak mindedness of the officer.

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Well, report to ethics then Commodore. You let your organization be infiltrated and subverted. Per your own orders you are responsible.


Oh wait, you can't report for duty as a swamper, you're A.W.O.L. off "circling a star because it's rejuvenating for a being" or some such glib justification for your failure.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
This is an insane order. (big surprise). Punishing an officer for the offense of a junior "EVEN IF THE OFFICER DID NOT KNOW OF THE OFFENSE" is completely wrong. Talk about the 'wrong target. One of the biggest reasons for the insane culture of the SO is because people were asked to do things they were never trained to do. And the Old Quack had specific policies that stated that not knowing a post was no excuse for not doing your job properly. Insane.

SO 'officers' were never trained to lead. They had no clue as to how to manage a team or project properly. They just guessed at how to do it and often descended into yelling and barking at people to 'get the job done'. Leadership by yelling is demoralizing and shows weak mindedness of the officer.

I don't know how often that policy was applied though -- it certainly wasn't every time. In fact, it was so rare that as a Sea Org member I don't think I considered it at all when deciding whether or not to do something I might get into trouble for (as happens!).

Paul
 

AngeloV

Gold Meritorious Patron
Welcome to the "Deck Project Force" (DPF), the actual forerunner of the RPF:

dpf-2-jpg.1193


This is a fine example of how much of a micro manager the Old Quack was. Can you imagine the Commodore of an actual navy getting into the weeds of daily ship operations discussing what specific parts of the ship need to be painted or cleaned? The reason he had to do this is because his 'officers' did not have a clue as to how to run a ship much less manage a large number of people and had to be continuously schooled into doing so.

'Make it go right' was one of the most insane orders you can give to an untrained individual who is trying to 'save the planet' and under excruciating pressure to do his job. Deckhand: "Sir, what solvent should I use to clean the engine manifolds". Officer: "What the fuck are you bothering me about..make it go right. Now scram!"
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Welcome to the "Deck Project Force" (DPF), the actual forerunner of the RPF:

dpf-2-jpg.1193


This is a fine example of how much of a micro manager the Old Quack was. Can you imagine the Commodore of an actual navy getting into the weeds of daily ship operations discussing what specific parts of the ship need to be painted or cleaned?

This is a trait of an Obsessive-compulsive and manipulative personality!

How to micro-manage all operation, especially when you are no competent???

Just say : Make it go right
and help everybody responsible for any flaw occuring for lack of training or lack of proper leadership.

Such personality think that fear of being punished will make people (miraculously) know and do the right thing!
 

The_Fixer

Class Clown
Welcome to the "Deck Project Force" (DPF), the actual forerunner of the RPF:

dpf-2-jpg.1193


This is a fine example of how much of a micro manager the Old Quack was. Can you imagine the Commodore of an actual navy getting into the weeds of daily ship operations discussing what specific parts of the ship need to be painted or cleaned? The reason he had to do this is because his 'officers' did not have a clue as to how to run a ship much less manage a large number of people and had to be continuously schooled into doing so.

'Make it go right' was one of the most insane orders you can give to an untrained individual who is trying to 'save the planet' and under excruciating pressure to do his job. Deckhand: "Sir, what solvent should I use to clean the engine manifolds". Officer: "What the fuck are you bothering me about..make it go right. Now scram!"

Micro managing is an offence in the eyes of the workplace laws in Oz, comes under the "Undue Harrassment" rules.

Some manager was sacked recently for doing this. He challenged the dismissal in the courts and the decision was upheld.

Can't give many specifics other than above, names and workplace ID were withheld.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
This is a fine example of how much of a micro manager the Old Quack was. Can you imagine the Commodore of an actual navy getting into the weeds of daily ship operations discussing what specific parts of the ship need to be painted or cleaned? The reason he had to do this is because his 'officers' did not have a clue as to how to run a ship much less manage a large number of people and had to be continuously schooled into doing so.

'Make it go right' was one of the most insane orders you can give to an untrained individual who is trying to 'save the planet' and under excruciating pressure to do his job. Deckhand: "Sir, what solvent should I use to clean the engine manifolds". Officer: "What the fuck are you bothering me about..make it go right. Now scram!"

In the real Navy, the new deckhand would be working under the supervision of a "petty officer" (Navy version of "sergeant") with years of experience in doing every little job. The military does get fresh crops of ensigns/lieutenants, but (again) they operate with experienced petty-officer/sergeants, as well as experienced senior officers, until they get fully grounded in their jobs.

I've said more than once, that most Scientology "execs" would be unqualified to be shift-manager at a Burger King. And I speak as a former young Scn "exec".
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
IN PAC, early 70's the DPF was quite regimented, once Scott Mayer ascended to Excalibur Captain. The auditing was an FPRD (Confessional) list if i remember rightly.


That doesn't sound right...the FPRD wasn't even created until the early 80s. Granted, it was piloted on the RPF before it was publicly released, but I don't think that was being done before 1982 or 1983.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I wasn't on tech lines so it's possible it was being piloted on the RPF in the 70s.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Micro managing is an offence in the eyes of the workplace laws in Oz, comes under the "Undue Harrassment" rules.

Some manager was sacked recently for doing this. He challenged the dismissal in the courts and the decision was upheld.

Can't give many specifics other than above, names and workplace ID were withheld.

The DPF/EPF is designed to get people accustomed to being treated in ways that would not be legal in a regular business.

This is a Church with Church rules.

It would be more appropriate to view the EPF as an RPF preparatory regimen and I've known people to go straight from one to the other without a Hearing or Comm-Ev.
 

pkatz

Patron with Honors
That doesn't sound right...the FPRD wasn't even created until the early 80s. Granted, it was piloted on the RPF before it was publicly released, but I don't think that was being done before 1982 or 1983.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I wasn't on tech lines so it's possible it was being piloted on the RPF in the 70s.

It was confessional style auditing, maybe a Sec Check.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
In the real Navy, the new deckhand would be working under the supervision of a "petty officer" (Navy version of "sergeant") with years of experience in doing every little job. The military does get fresh crops of ensigns/lieutenants, but (again) they operate with experienced petty-officer/sergeants, as well as experienced senior officers, until they get fully grounded in their jobs.

I've said more than once, that most Scientology "execs" would be unqualified to be shift-manager at a Burger King. And I speak as a former young Scn "exec".

By evoking the "Make it go right", "You are already OT by virtue of being in the Sea Org" commandments, LRH gave himself a sweeping absolution for anything that went wrong from placing unprepared people in authority.

Not that LRH wasn't already sufficiently OC but having been burned so badly with the failure of partnership relationships in the founding organizations, I expect his mindset never evolved and even after there were 5000 Sea Org members, many international orgs and missions, Saint Hill, Flag and the Complex, he still treated it all like he was the head of the fledgling Phoenix start up. He did create a Monolithic Command and Control Organization but, as you say, even wog military understand that if the General is commanding the Private that constitutes a contraction all the way down from the upper echelon to the lowest and it is inefficient and prevents expansion. As Scientology grew, LRH installed mechanisms to bypass all the way down the line instantly. Flag Bureau used Missions to bypass the orgs, the GO could bypass Flag with ops and Finances, and ultimately CMO would bypass everyone else.

Every policy in Scientology has an equal opposing policy. Which policy is used at any given time is determined by where the determining authority sits on this bypassing hierarchy.

So policy was really only for useful idiots and the EPF specializes in making those.
 

Martin-O

Patron
Another incredibly stupid Flag Order. Almost the one I am thinking of, but it's not the same one.

The Flag Order I am recalling quite clearly stated explicitly that "...a thetan has done everything before"--or wording very close to that.

I should probably offer a reward to anyone who finds that F.O. Maybe a Monopoly-like card that says "GET OUT OF THE CHAIN LOCKER FREE"--that people can use when they are ordered to the chain locker.

This must be the one you were thinking of:

winning-attitude-jpg.259230
 

Peter Soderqvist

Patron with Honors
This must be the one you were thinking of:

winning-attitude-jpg.259230

Soderqvist1: In another time, and in another place but the same delusion!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_career_of_L._Ron_Hubbard

January 1942 when his ship was rerouted. He was ordered back to the United States aboard the transport vessel USS Chaumont the following month at the instigation of the US Naval Attaché to Australia, who cabled Washington to complain: "By assuming unauthorized authority and attempting to perform duties for which he has no qualifications, he became the source of much trouble... This officer is not satisfactory for independent duty assignment. He is garrulous and tries to give impressions of his importance. He also seems to think he has unusual ability in most lines. These characteristics indicate that he will require close supervision for satisfactory performance of any intelligence duty."
http://scientologymyths.com/causey-letter.htm
 

AngeloV

Gold Meritorious Patron
This must be the one you were thinking of:

winning-attitude-jpg.259230

Yet another of the Old Quack's insane policies. You can teach anyone to scrape paint off of a railing in about 1 minute and they will be able to "perform the total actions of their post".

But you cannot teach someone to run, maintain and repair a ship's engine or navigational system in 1 minute. This takes time and you are 'new' at this job for awhile until you get a full understanding of the complex systems.

Hubbard makes zero distinction in these 'posts' and puts people in the impossible position of 'performing the total actions' immediately upon given the job.

What an a-hole.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Yet another of the Old Quack's insane policies. You can teach anyone to scrape paint off of a railing in about 1 minute and they will be able to "perform the total actions of their post".

But you cannot teach someone to run, maintain and repair a ship's engine or navigational system in 1 minute. This takes time and you are 'new' at this job for awhile until you get a full understanding of the complex systems.

Hubbard makes zero distinction in these 'posts' and puts people in the impossible position of 'performing the total actions' immediately upon given the job.

What an a-hole.

Yeah. What this policy encourages is a "musical-chairs" environment, where staff members with years of experience can just get tossed off post willy-nilly and replaced with someone without a clue because Ron says it makes no difference. In the end one just says to hell with it as that's the way it is.

Paul
 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
This isn't a 'Flag Order', but since the thread has already descended into a discussion about dildos, rather than start a new thread in this forum, I thought I'd post this amusing document which I've just come across on the interweb.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex HCO POLICY LETTER OF 15 MARCH 1966
SH only
Guardian
Exec Secs
ES comm HCO and Legal Officer

CORPORATE ADDRESS

No corporate address hereafter is to be Saint Hill. This includes Hubbard College of Scientology, C of S of Calif and any other corporation.
Crawley is a little crossroads and their tax office is used to greengrocer accounts and any sum above £15,000 is a fantastic sum to Crawley. Further, Crawley's tax commissioners are East Grinstead and East Grinstead saw a £10 note once and is still talking about it.
No large corporation should ever use a rural one horse tax office as they can't understand real business sums in such offices.
Always use a London address and make sure you have one for all corporations.

L. RON HUBBARD
LRH: ml
Copyright © 1966
by L. Ron Hubbard
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This is an interesting thread but just one thing; Crawley isn't "small" as English towns go, it's a lot bigger than East Grinstead;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawley
 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yeah. What this policy encourages is a "musical-chairs" environment, where staff members with years of experience can just get tossed off post willy-nilly and replaced with someone without a clue because Ron says it makes no difference. In the end one just says to hell with it as that's the way it is.

Paul

Not everyone does though; if Steve Bisbey (with whom I often used to talk about life in the SO) is any guide, even back then a lot of people left because they couldn't stomach the follies unleashed by these and other nonsensical policies. In fact Steve once claimed that everyone he knew in the SO who had any serious disagreement with the way things were done ended up leaving, which now seems to me to be a bit unlikely (maybe some people were too scared to even voice their concerns?), but it's heartening to know that not everyone just put up with it.
 
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Terril park

Sponsor
That doesn't sound right...the FPRD wasn't even created until the early 80s. Granted, it was piloted on the RPF before it was publicly released, but I don't think that was being done before 1982 or 1983.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I wasn't on tech lines so it's possible it was being piloted on the RPF in the 70s.

The FPRD red on white issues date from 1984 and 1985. Would a pilot
program be done before that and if so how long before?
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
The FPRD red on white issues date from 1984 and 1985. Would a pilot
program be done before that and if so how long before?

It was common for LRH to use SO as guinea pigs. I recall the Purif being piloted in PAC around 1980, well before release.
 
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