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The Flag Order Thread

Discussion in 'Important documents' started by Martin-O, Jul 18, 2016.

  1. AngeloV

    AngeloV Gold Meritorious Patron

    This is an insane order. (big surprise). Punishing an officer for the offense of a junior "EVEN IF THE OFFICER DID NOT KNOW OF THE OFFENSE" is completely wrong. Talk about the 'wrong target. One of the biggest reasons for the insane culture of the SO is because people were asked to do things they were never trained to do. And the Old Quack had specific policies that stated that not knowing a post was no excuse for not doing your job properly. Insane.

    SO 'officers' were never trained to lead. They had no clue as to how to manage a team or project properly. They just guessed at how to do it and often descended into yelling and barking at people to 'get the job done'. Leadership by yelling is demoralizing and shows weak mindedness of the officer.

  2. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I don't know how often that policy was applied though -- it certainly wasn't every time. In fact, it was so rare that as a Sea Org member I don't think I considered it at all when deciding whether or not to do something I might get into trouble for (as happens!).

  3. AngeloV

    AngeloV Gold Meritorious Patron

  4. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

  5. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

  6. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    In the real Navy, the new deckhand would be working under the supervision of a "petty officer" (Navy version of "sergeant") with years of experience in doing every little job. The military does get fresh crops of ensigns/lieutenants, but (again) they operate with experienced petty-officer/sergeants, as well as experienced senior officers, until they get fully grounded in their jobs.

    I've said more than once, that most Scientology "execs" would be unqualified to be shift-manager at a Burger King. And I speak as a former young Scn "exec".
  7. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    That doesn't sound right...the FPRD wasn't even created until the early 80s. Granted, it was piloted on the RPF before it was publicly released, but I don't think that was being done before 1982 or 1983.

    Correct me if I'm wrong. I wasn't on tech lines so it's possible it was being piloted on the RPF in the 70s.
  8. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

  9. pkatz

    pkatz Patron with Honors

    It was confessional style auditing, maybe a Sec Check.
  10. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    By evoking the "Make it go right", "You are already OT by virtue of being in the Sea Org" commandments, LRH gave himself a sweeping absolution for anything that went wrong from placing unprepared people in authority.

    Not that LRH wasn't already sufficiently OC but having been burned so badly with the failure of partnership relationships in the founding organizations, I expect his mindset never evolved and even after there were 5000 Sea Org members, many international orgs and missions, Saint Hill, Flag and the Complex, he still treated it all like he was the head of the fledgling Phoenix start up. He did create a Monolithic Command and Control Organization but, as you say, even wog military understand that if the General is commanding the Private that constitutes a contraction all the way down from the upper echelon to the lowest and it is inefficient and prevents expansion. As Scientology grew, LRH installed mechanisms to bypass all the way down the line instantly. Flag Bureau used Missions to bypass the orgs, the GO could bypass Flag with ops and Finances, and ultimately CMO would bypass everyone else.

    Every policy in Scientology has an equal opposing policy. Which policy is used at any given time is determined by where the determining authority sits on this bypassing hierarchy.

    So policy was really only for useful idiots and the EPF specializes in making those.
  11. Martin-O

    Martin-O Patron

    This must be the one you were thinking of:

  12. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    Maybe XDN? Wasn't that a forerunner to FPRD?
  13. Peter Soderqvist

    Peter Soderqvist Patron with Honors

    Soderqvist1: In another time, and in another place but the same delusion!

  14. AngeloV

    AngeloV Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yet another of the Old Quack's insane policies. You can teach anyone to scrape paint off of a railing in about 1 minute and they will be able to "perform the total actions of their post".

    But you cannot teach someone to run, maintain and repair a ship's engine or navigational system in 1 minute. This takes time and you are 'new' at this job for awhile until you get a full understanding of the complex systems.

    Hubbard makes zero distinction in these 'posts' and puts people in the impossible position of 'performing the total actions' immediately upon given the job.

    What an a-hole.
  15. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Yeah. What this policy encourages is a "musical-chairs" environment, where staff members with years of experience can just get tossed off post willy-nilly and replaced with someone without a clue because Ron says it makes no difference. In the end one just says to hell with it as that's the way it is.

  16. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    This is an interesting thread but just one thing; Crawley isn't "small" as English towns go, it's a lot bigger than East Grinstead;
  17. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    Not everyone does though; if Steve Bisbey (with whom I often used to talk about life in the SO) is any guide, even back then a lot of people left because they couldn't stomach the follies unleashed by these and other nonsensical policies. In fact Steve once claimed that everyone he knew in the SO who had any serious disagreement with the way things were done ended up leaving, which now seems to me to be a bit unlikely (maybe some people were too scared to even voice their concerns?), but it's heartening to know that not everyone just put up with it.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2016
  18. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    The FPRD red on white issues date from 1984 and 1985. Would a pilot
    program be done before that and if so how long before?
  19. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    It was common for LRH to use SO as guinea pigs. I recall the Purif being piloted in PAC around 1980, well before release.
  20. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    I don't recall the exact reference, but the wording was " anything the thetan has done before, he will do again".