The great David & Marty transfer of Scientology Power (show)?

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Sadly, it's not dead until the last canary sings. Scientology is capable of reinventing itself. Historical evidence is abundant. The PR tech is about the only thing that does work and yes the information age is a big thorn in the cult's claw, but good people want to believe good things are possible and are hesitant to look at how bad things might be.

Scientology is ALWAYS worse than you think. Even though it sometimes looks like a dog and pony show, the beast still has teeth.
I agree that it may take a while before something called the "Church of Scientology" ceases to exist, but I do take exception with a couple of points.

Hubbard's PR "tech" is garbage. It doesn't work and it has never worked. If you read Jefferson Hawkins' "Counterfeit Dreams" you'll find that his DMSMH campaign suceeded because he ignored Hubbard's PR "tech" and just used standard PR.

The Internet isn't a "thorn" to Scientology, it has actually destroyed Scientology's viability. Scientology could only exist while its lack of results and bogus "confidential levels" were hidden. With the Internet, their "mystery sandwich" is gone.

The Scientology tech that was successful for a long, long time was their litigation tech. But, now, even that has been exposed as just threats and hot air. Today, it is pretty well known that the CoS will fold when their bluff is called.

Scientology is capable of re-inventing its public face, yes, but Scientology can never change what it is, under the covers, and still call itself "Scientology". Hubbard forbade that in no uncertain terms.

Yes, Scientology is always worse than you think. I agree.

Bill
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
One possibility is a condition of mutual "blackmail." Rathbun occasionally goes on about how Miscavige doesn't want him talking in court, etc, so is afraid to sue him, or even depose him, etc. This would seem to indicate that there are some things, concerning his time in $cientology as the #2 of $cientology, about which he is not speaking.

Guys with camera hats and squirrel buster t-shirts, providing YouTube-able moments to $cientology's detriment and Rathbun's advantage, no matter how annoying at times to Rathbun, were Fair Game-lite compared to what some others experienced.

Perhaps Miscavige will take the gloves off in the days to come. That remains to be seen. This saga always seems to be on the brink of moving into another, more intense, phase then, somehow, it fizzles. Maybe this time, it won't fizzle. We'll see.

In any event, here's Jesse Prince's take on it from about a year and a half ago:

"...With all the Private Investigator activity that Marty and Mike were reporting, in my opinion what they were reporting seemed lame and tame. In my experience with the same activity perpetrated by the Scientology conglomerate legal and intelligence dis-abler mechanism (Which Marty and Mike were a significant part of), my experiences with Private Investigator activity were far more extreme. Comparatively speaking, it seemed to me that Marty and Mike were having more of a lovers spat [with Miscavige] as opposed to a real showdown."

I like the mutual blackmail theory. They each have dirt on the other. And neither has the means or the inclination to completely decimate the other.

In fact, their little "lovers spat" actually helps each of them retain their adoring sheep. DM can point to the war against the horrible SPs (MM et al.) in his demand for more donations, and MM et al can point to the evil dictator who "ruined LRH's true Scientology" to rally his Kool-Aid drinkers.

Their little war keeps each of them in power, and it could go on for quite awhile.

Of course, both sides "have true LRH Tech on their side". Just like the Middle East conflict, where Israel and Palestine both have God on their side. Some people MUST have their wars. Someone always benefits from the conflict.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
I'm with ITYIWT - this Marty and ex-execs v. David war isn't going to leave much standing. This is no way to inherit an empire.

I think the likely biggest myth about all of this is that there's very much money left at all. Millions yes, billions no. So there's another theory.

Occam's razor and all that.

Inheriting Scientology leadership is not going to happen. Scientology is a disaster zone, and I have assigned it the condition of Despair.

tonea.jpg
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
R/e OP. the theory that there was some sort of long range fuckery going on behind the scenes in corporate scientology, some sort of plotted stratagy, was kicked around years ago over @ wwp and elsewhere, not new, not revelatory. That Marteh and Co. were going deep cover to set up a retrival system for the dis-enfranchised, to keep the koolaid sippers on the cans so that a base-line of sheeples could get transferred over back into a new corporate CoS set-up with Ron-love still in, is at best an entertaining idea, but also pretty much woo. That said, not much of Hubbard's greed-fueled, insane construct, makes any sense anyhow. I think that if there was going to be a power play/money-grab, it would have played out within the confines of CoS' RTC structure. The Dwarfenfurher has covered his ass pretty well as far as control goes, the pooling of power into a single mother entity under directly singular control through RTC (David Miscavige at the reins), all the tax-evading shell games and creative banking blah-blah-blah, pretty much ensures that even an internal revolt would not free up any of the ill-gotten fortune without a huge spectacle.
That CoS is getting 'poorer' I think is a cow's bum, the cash flow may be drying up, the money going 'up-lines' into the coffers may be considerably less, but by all accounts not a dime goes back into any lower situation, missions, Orgs, etc. unless its for buying out some other suckers debts at great profit. The interest alone on CoS assets could likely sustain the entire structure indefinately if need be, and then some, but its suspected it just gets rolled over into the slush-funds and the burdens of keeping things running in the cult's hydra-heads falls on the shoulders of parishioners/victims. This has all been thrashed over numerous times over the years, and some of the best insights have come from ex's like Denise Brennan, who was instrumental in tying up the cult's financial loose ends, all the info is a few google-cliks away.
Hubbard was a loopy, greedy, lying shit. DM is cut from the same fuck-muffin. M&M can only dream of the riches they can't access and the Indies etc. will continue to perpetrate the bullshit because it is an income after all, and there's no end to the supply of well intentioned suckers. And apologists and cult trolls will continue to piss in the corners of any boards that'll put up with them.

tl/dr version~ The whole bunch are screwed up, nothing should come as a surprize to anyone, the entertainment continues, people continue to get messed up by Hubbard's mess, and cult membership continues to decline by leaps and bounds.

Sunday ranty thingy over fer now, I go.

:carryon:

:cheers:
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
Now suppose David and Marty (pals for years and years and years) had the foresight to plan the impending transfer of power?
Horacio

Um no. :no:

You simply have no idea what it means to live week to week to have stats up by Thursday at 2 pm for years and years and years.

That sort of long-term planning is not part of an SO member's thinking. Marty still jumps from emergency to emergency and STILL has this weekly routine thing on his blog (have anyone ever noticed?) It's a hard habit to break, being in a constant state of urgency every week.
 

Andtheyalllived

Patron with Honors
I agree with the blackmail standoff.
I can't imagine David Miscavige volunteering to not only look like he was losing, but to look like he was getting his face rubbed in fail-shame. The guy is a walking ego... He has all the money and he thought, up until at least the past few years, that he had all the win. Maybe he still thinks he does - he's pretty delusional.

When I first read the OP, my tin-foil glimmered. But these guys are nowhere near that slick. Marty can barely keep his impatience and slow-simmering anger and contempt at bay long enough to play the thin part he's playing.

The beginning of the OP took me back to what I keep trying to reconcile... does Marty want money, the Emperor's Crown, or is he a True Believer - just needs to save Scientology? Obviously it's a combo platter, but how much of what?

Frankly, I think he is addicted to the high of the game he played for decades. Dominate others, take risks, and play the badass. He could NOT have quietly retired away from the wicked squirrelbuster harassment (as someone suggested earlier in the thread)... what would he have? This is the most exhilarating time of his life.
 

HoraciotheOT8

Patron with Honors
We're taking Horacio at face value now? :ohmy:

Paul

The author of a body of work and that body of work are not equal Paul. Are you bull baiting here? Do you imagine 'your' body of work (which is hefty in its own right) would be, or could be, legitimately dismissed because 'you' Paul, produced it? I think not. With the emphasis on the word legitimately.

On the other hand, I cannot shake the feeling you are merely having fun here. To which I say, touche'.

Horacio
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Frankly, I think he is addicted to the high of the game he played for decades.

Bingo! That, and being deliciously close to power - particularly the star power of Tom Cruise. I think he misses THAT one most of all! He knows TC's deepest darkest secrets, and I'm sure he misses that "closeness" that he used to have and which DM took away from him. That is probably the MAJOR reason he hates DM more than anything else.
 

HoraciotheOT8

Patron with Honors
^^^ This. Plus I don't believe DM would agree to having Marty & Mike & Debbie etc drag his name through the mud for a simple change of leadership when it could have been done a LOT smoother. Marty might be gunning for the Pope's hat, but it's not with DMs blessing (or cooperation).

Also I don't really understand when people downplay the harassment Marty copped from the Squibs. It might have been comedy to us, but can you imagine living with that on your door step for 3 straight months? Everywhere you went you were followed by these asshats. Your neighbors harassed. Your friends harrassed. Nobody could come to your house without being filmed etc. It might not be what they did to Paulette Cooper, but it wasn't *nothing* either. I'd have gone mad if I had to put up with that shit.

I realize there are numerous holes in my speculation Emma, however the one mentioned above is relatively easy to counter (in theory). Namely, 'if' there was or were any sort of pre determined design to facilitate such a transfer of power, having clowns with videos on their heads (i.e. asshats) would hardly constitute a crisis for a willing participant in the show. Certainly not in the first person pre-agreed upon temporary reality of Marty (and Mike).

Secondly, in regard to 'the harassment of ones friends and the filming of them', I'm fairly certain Scientology Doctrine 101 in regard to the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics would cover that territory fairly well. Being namely: 'never fail to harm another in a just cause'. Making note of the fact that all of those 'harassed' (at Marty's door) truly do love Scientology.

Look, in time we will all know the truth. How long of a time it will take and how much of the truth we will know, remains to be seen. Until then however I will continue to appeal to Unex (the antithesis of Xenu) for guidance in all things Scientology, where imagination is ones primary guide to reality. Reality itself be damned.

Horacio
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/arti...uit-Scientologist-spent-30-mil-to-cover-death

DM is tired and rich (think yachts on an ocean). Marty is energetic and poor (think fishing off a row boat on a river).

Now ever since their 'divorce' became public, the public, or at least certain parts of it, were skeptical. What with Marty bull baiting David like no one before, and David making a feeble show of concern (ala send in the clowns). Something didn't smell right.

Now suppose David and Marty (pals for years and years and years) had the foresight to plan the impending transfer of power? I mean, think about it, these two (along with Mike Rinder) have handled the United States Court system like an adult handling a child (for years and years and years). Do this, don't do that, etc. etc. And they all 3 had access to lawyers with the intellectual legal prowess of an Einstein, along with the moral decency of, well, each other.

Far fetched? Read Science of Survival. Far fetched in Scientology is the stable datum.

Miscaviage is untouchable. Period. He will retire in luxury when he is damn well ready. And Marty is untouchable too, at least where the United State Court system is concerned. And Marty knows that (and so does David). As well as would any lawyer worth his weight in corruption. Think statutes of limitations.

We are talking Billions of dollars here folks. We are not talking book one auditing.

It's the classic Snow-White tranformation of power as evidence of innocence. Scientology as a benign 'religion' is innocent, and thus remains in the good graces of the government. DM was the bad apple (think the Guardians Office) and now he's gone. Marty is the new improved (law abiding) OSA. Which name will be changed from OSA to something or other. Which Mike Rinder will lead. (with Sneakster as a senior loyal and trusted aide).

Look, in America, even though a Corporation is a person for 'free speech' purposes, you cannot put a corporation in prison. Nor a religion.

I suspect the day is coming when Marty Rathbun is back at the helm, this time as 'THE MAN' of Scientology, in an extravagant event that will make L. Ron Hubbards death announcement look like a jr. high school practice production.

As a legal practical matter Dandar will win his suit. He will be free of his chains. And life will go on, for him. But as a moral practical matter, Scientology will re-invent itself, once again, and will continue to enslave under the guise of setting free, lie in the name of being honest, and destroy in the name of creating, a world without insanity....etc. etc.

Horacio

Many of us who see politics as orchestrated behind the scenes have considered this exact scenario, that there is a covert power transfer going on. I thought that thought then discounted it. I don't buy it. But suppose that is correct, and time will tell ... Marty will be getting sloppy thirds, after the HubTurd and DM have had their way with the bitch that is the Cof$. It will be relatively slim pickings for Marty compared to the loot that the HubTurd and DM made. And there will be virtually no such thing as rehabbing the old gal before raping her again. Why? Because everybody knows the Xenu story, which makes recruiting new blood very difficult at best. And to drop the Xenu story is to drop Scientology. Marty would do better to start peddling cult lite, i.e., start another lifespring or LandMark. Pitch the shit out of 400 dollar weekend seminars where you blow sunshine up people's backsides, that is the way to go. Lots more fun, access to loads of guru groupies to shtup.

Pete
 

Sindy

Crusader
...
Perhaps Miscavige will take the gloves off in the days to come. That remains to be seen. This saga always seems to be on the brink of moving into another, more intense, phase then, somehow, it fizzles. Maybe this time, it won't fizzle. We'll see.

In any event, here's Jesse Prince's take on it from about a year and a half ago:

"...With all the Private Investigator activity that Marty and Mike were reporting, in my opinion what they were reporting seemed lame and tame. In my experience with the same activity perpetrated by the Scientology conglomerate legal and intelligence dis-abler mechanism (Which Marty and Mike were a significant part of), my experiences with Private Investigator activity were far more extreme. Comparatively speaking, it seemed to me that Marty and Mike were having more of a lovers spat [with Miscavige] as opposed to a real showdown."

The Internet is powerful. The dark, seedy shadows that allowed Hubbard to hide no longer exist. It's an entirely different world in only a couple of decades.

When I got into Scientology 27 years ago, hardly anyone had ever heard of it. It was not the household word it is today. The media were scared up until recently. They don't seem to be anymore.

Hubbard's time vs Miscavige's time = Apples to Oranges

Miscavige can only offer "Harrassment Lite" or his house of cards tumbles all the way down.

I believe he has to resort to or simply settle on keeping Marty preoccupied in hopes that if he has to keep swatting at flies, just to live, that he'll be too distracted to pull out his big guns.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
I agree with what Sindy says -- the harassment Hubbard could get away with then v. what Miscavige can get away with now is indeed apples v. oranges. The Internet shines a klieg light into those shadows. Privacy is (comparatively) dead. Transparency is the new etiquette.

Think "Petraeus." (Or, if you prefer, "idiots." LOL!)

TG1
 

Veda

Sponsor
The Internet is powerful. The dark, seedy shadows that allowed Hubbard to hide no longer exist. It's an entirely different world in only a couple of decades.

When I got into Scientology 27 years ago, hardly anyone had ever heard of it. It was not the household word it is today. The media were scared up until recently. They don't seem to be anymore.

Hubbard's time vs Miscavige's time = Apples to Oranges

Miscavige can only offer "Harrassment Lite" or his house of cards tumbles all the way down.

I believe he has to resort to or simply settle on keeping Marty preoccupied in hopes that if he has to keep swatting at flies, just to live, that he'll be too distracted to pull out his big guns.

Jesse Prince was referring to around ten years ago.

27 years ago was 1985. I'm sure you've seen the Mike Wallace CBS TV '60 Minutes' videos from 1980 and 1985. That was a widely viewed USA national television program. And there were newspapers and magazines, and Scientology was a topic addressed, especially after the 1977 FBI raids, and the conviction of Hubbard's wife for the commission of federal felonies and her being sent to federal prison. Shortly thereafter, came Armstrong vs Church of Scientology, and then two books that presented numerous interviews with those who had worked directly with Hubbard. There was no Internet but, for those interested, there was plenty of information floating around.

Was all information available? No. Is it now? No. And I think it's a mistake to assume that because of the Internet that all, or virtually all, information, regarding Scientology, is available. Scientology still has plenty of dark seedy shadows, and there are still people unable to speak freely because they were litigated into debt and coerced into signing gag agreements.

The Internet has been a wonderful development, and a nightmare for Scientology, but I don't think that some guys in squirrel buster t-shirts are distracting Marty Rathbun from pulling out the big guns. Rathbun is refraining from broaching certain areas, by choice. Rathbun's on a "mission" to rescue the reputation of Hubbard and Hubbard's Scientology from ridicule and infamy and, when ya' think about it, that "mission" and telling the whole truth about Hubbard and Scientology are mutually exclusive. :)
 
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