The letter that has gotten more than $400K repaid from the CofS

ScnRebel

Patron
Hi ScnRebel,
Although I've been reading forums critical of Scientology for quite some time, your Scientologese is just too much for me. But I'd like to understand what you're saying, so how about a translation? Or is your post "insiders only"? If so, then please disregard.

Hi MrNobody,

Sorry for the misunderstoods. I get a bit carried away sometimes....

KOT - Keeper of Tech. A bit of a funny post to me, but this person needs to make sure that the Tech is being kept standard. It seems that refunds/repayments always drift up to that post. I think the post is actually on the Routing Form.

CVB - Claims Verification Board. This is a unit in International Management that verifies that your Refund/Repayment has been handled standardly and gives the authorisation for the Org to pay. When you do the Refund Routing Form, you have to do a whole lot of steps at the Org. Once those are done, you have to take the whole package of documents and send them to CVB. They will then tell the Org to pay or not, and will respond to you directly.

PTS Type A - Connected to someone who is Anti-Scientology. Type A as it is the first in the list on the A-J list.

CLO - Continental Liason Office. This is the Sea Organisation that runs the Orgs in it's area.

Out A-J - Having any of the points on the A-J list out. B is having a criminal history, C is covered in my post, etc.

On the point of whether you can get your money back for the KTL that you started, the answer is yes. You should be able to claim for it. You most likely will not get the money back for the materials though. Realise that if you go in and ask for the money back, they are going to put you on the CVB Routing Form, which might take a hell of a long time to get done. There is also a point on it where you have to let them try and fix things up. In your case this will mean trying to find out what you missed on KTL. That could be quite a cycle. If you give them a letter threatening to go legal, as Kathy has posted, you stand a good chance of getting the money out faster due to what I said in my post. Even if the letter does not work, you can still do the Routing Form.

Hope that helps.
 

Mrs Pattycake

Patron with Honors
Feral and I used your letter as the basis of our letter to Flag, Freewinds and the AOSH ANZO. We got all our monies repaid . We did send copies to our attorney and the Committee and I even sent an extra letter to the Committee asking that they investigate the Church's religious recognition.:thumbsup:

Funnily enough our repayment all ended up going through our local OSA and they also used their attorneys who accidently sent the cheques in an " international express envelop" rather than a normal express envelop or so we were told by Vicky Hannah ( whatever her new name is )
I really doubt that happened ... as if !:no:

Anyway it still took 4 months to get our repayments and that was with us following up every week and being very nice until we got on to OSA lines. Then we just got very insistent and when they kept giving dumb excuses we decided to go to the media.

We did not bluff - we had done the initial brief with the media and spoke to consumer affairs - when finally they got their act together and got us the money.

Before that they were just mucking us around like sending cheques made out to the old account name rather than using the new banking details we had given them and thus we could not bank cheques , so cheques had to be sent back and new ones reissued etc .:grouch:

The good news was that due to their stuffing around the exchange rate change from 89cents to 65cents and we made an extra $ 25,000.00 Yah yooo - sucked in OSA !!!:happydance:

Dealing with OSA on this made me realise that even the admin tech of Scientology is sooooo bogus - it is not the most advance on the planet but the most archaic ! Could they electronically transfer the funds into our bank account like we had done for them thousands of times to make their Thursday 2 deadline ? No they had to Telex ( not email ) the other terminal overseas and wait for a reply and then post back the old cheque and then they had to wait until the next FP meeting and resubmit the request in the next FP etc etc etc - bullshit, bullshit , bullshit. :angry:

It only served to make me realise that this was not any group I wanted to be a part of. In our business we had over the years had the odd difficult customer who wanted their money back. We gladly gave it to them and promptly too. But OSA just seemed to want to drag the cycle out and for what ??? - the only result was that I was so pissed off by the end of it , I absolutely knew I had made the right decision !!! :yes:



- though in hindsight I wish I had also asked to return all my unopened Basics and Congresses
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
<snip>

It only served to make me realise that this was not any group I wanted to be a part of. In our business we had over the years had the odd difficult customer who wanted their money back. We gladly gave it to them and promptly too. But OSA just seemed to want to drag the cycle out and for what ??? - the only result was that I was so pissed off by the end of it , I absolutely knew I had made the right decision !!! :yes:



- though in hindsight I wish I had also asked to return all my unopened Basics and Congresses

It's their major stat! NEW ENEMIES MADE. And they are working very hard to maintain their power trend. :D
 

tookmeawhile

Patron with Honors
More details on refunds

Please check out the threads under my signature for my complete repayment hat write up. I used the ImOut Letter. I'm one of her stats!

And don't forget to go for your IAS money, too!

TMW
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
Hi MrNobody,

Sorry for the misunderstoods. I get a bit carried away sometimes....

KOT - Keeper of Tech. A bit of a funny post to me, but this person needs to make sure that the Tech is being kept standard. It seems that refunds/repayments always drift up to that post. I think the post is actually on the Routing Form.

CVB - Claims Verification Board. This is a unit in International Management that verifies that your Refund/Repayment has been handled standardly and gives the authorisation for the Org to pay. When you do the Refund Routing Form, you have to do a whole lot of steps at the Org. Once those are done, you have to take the whole package of documents and send them to CVB. They will then tell the Org to pay or not, and will respond to you directly.

PTS Type A - Connected to someone who is Anti-Scientology. Type A as it is the first in the list on the A-J list.

CLO - Continental Liason Office. This is the Sea Organisation that runs the Orgs in it's area.

Out A-J - Having any of the points on the A-J list out. B is having a criminal history, C is covered in my post, etc.

On the point of whether you can get your money back for the KTL that you started, the answer is yes. You should be able to claim for it. You most likely will not get the money back for the materials though. Realise that if you go in and ask for the money back, they are going to put you on the CVB Routing Form, which might take a hell of a long time to get done. There is also a point on it where you have to let them try and fix things up. In your case this will mean trying to find out what you missed on KTL. That could be quite a cycle. If you give them a letter threatening to go legal, as Kathy has posted, you stand a good chance of getting the money out faster due to what I said in my post. Even if the letter does not work, you can still do the Routing Form.

Hope that helps.

Hi ScnRebel,
Thanks for your translation/explanation. It does indeed help a lot. :thumbsup:
 

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
What?!?! :ohmy:

Why did you have to give it to IRS???

Was there back payments you owed to IRS or did the church snitch on you
and the IRS taxed you for the 26K??

Just trying to clarify the IRS thing?? :ohmy:

To the best of my knowledge, YES, the CofS snitched on us. I called my local tax guy, no knowledge of Scn whatsoever and his first response was: "Someone ratted you out to the IRS".

So, we then called my hubby's tax lawyer - he said pay the IRS bill. I said no way and fought the IRS. I won. LOL!!!! But when we went to file 2007 tax return our tax guy highly recommended that we include our repayment as "misc. income" on our tax return, since we were already on the IRS's list.

There are limits to how much money you can make (starting at about $125K and going up) that thus limits your tax deductions - we went over that "income" level and could not use $15K of other deductions - so we got nailed. We hope with our 2009 tax return that we will be able to reclaim all of the deductions we "lost" in 2007 and 2008 and will get a hefty refund from the IRS. (I barely understand all of these IRS rules, so please don't ask me to explain - I take what our tax guy and my girlfriend tell me as gospel.)

Another point - we had huge donos to the CofS the two years prior to leaving. We had taken those contributions. So, if you'd given your money to the CofS many years prior, it may not be a problem. And I haven't heard of anyone else being snitched on by the CofS.
 

MAX YOUR CREDIT

Patron with Honors
To the best of my knowledge, YES, the CofS snitched on us. I called my local tax guy, no knowledge of Scn whatsoever and his first response was: "Someone ratted you out to the IRS".

So, we then called my hubby's tax lawyer - he said pay the IRS bill. I said no way and fought the IRS. I won. LOL!!!! But when we went to file 2007 tax return our tax guy highly recommended that we include our repayment as "misc. income" on our tax return, since we were already on the IRS's list.

There are limits to how much money you can make (starting at about $125K and going up) that thus limits your tax deductions - we went over that "income" level and could not use $15K of other deductions - so we got nailed. We hope with our 2009 tax return that we will be able to reclaim all of the deductions we "lost" in 2007 and 2008 and will get a hefty refund from the IRS. (I barely understand all of these IRS rules, so please don't ask me to explain - I take what our tax guy and my girlfriend tell me as gospel.)

Another point - we had huge donos to the CofS the two years prior to leaving. We had taken those contributions. So, if you'd given your money to the CofS many years prior, it may not be a problem. And I haven't heard of anyone else being snitched on by the CofS.


THOSE BASTARDS!!!
You know Kathy, I always knew deep down in my heart that there was something WRONG with Scn that did not feel right in my soul. For many years I had this hunch. Now that I'm out I see how Evil they are and how right I was!

Onward and Upward,
 

tookmeawhile

Patron with Honors
TMW, so everything was done in writing, right?

You mean my request for repayments from scio? Yes. I did not speak to anyone at Flag or IAS. I did have a brief conversation with Dallas Org terminal but it was just to get an update and he told me next week; which he did.

Again, these were truly the smoothest cycles EVER for me in scientology. :thumbsup:
 

Fancy

Patron Meritorious
They love dragging their feet and avoiding anything written to them but then they come back with a dragging feet excuse. Hold the money and hope the check goes bad.
 

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm not mentioning names, but I've gotten some emails from the same person on how to get repayments. I have advised and given my experience and have referred them to TookMeAWhile's thread (if I remember correctly) on what to do and what not to do.

So, I'm going to reiterate - the letter in the original post on this thread is the one my hubby wrote that got not only our money back, but also $400K + back. Yes, everyone that has used it has reworded it slightly to fit their needs.

1. You DON'T need to do the routing form.
2. You DON'T really have to cc the Ways and Means or your attorney - just make the CofS think you did.
3. You DON'T need to call your councilman/woman.
4. You DON'T need to contact or cc the State Attorney General.

Here's what you need to do to get a repayment.

FOLLOW THE DAMN LETTER. READ TOOKMEAWHILE'S ENTIRE THREAD ABOUT IT.

People, don't make things so F'ing complicated. It's not. Even though the church wants you to believe you have to jump thru hoops to get your money back - YOU DON'T HAVE TO.

Our letters were mailed on November 27th or 28th, 2006. The checks we received were dated no later than December 15th, 2006. We had issues with our mail being transferred. That is the ONLY reason it took more than 30 days to get our repayments.

Repayments are simple cycles. Only you agreeing with the crap the CofS pulls on you makes them difficult. And now possibly that they are running out of money. Don't make your repayment any harder on yourself. Mail the letter, refuse (nicely) not to do the routing form and expect your check in the mail. If after 30 or 60 days - nudge them.

We all know the old saying - you collect more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. Live by that when you WANT something from someone or some organization. The CofS terminals are no different - they all react to niceness better than they do to nastiness.

I had to get a wee bit heavy with the WUS CLO terminal I was dealing with, only because he was making it my responsibility that their attorney lost the stale-dated checks we had to return. I wasn't falling for that line of BS anymore. I didn't lose the checks and I had proof that they had been received. Every other time I had to talk to that person, I was nice and solicited his HELP. Remember the CofS has a big HELP button. Use that to your advantage. Even if this is NOT the type of help they want to be giving to you.

I don't mind the PMs asking for help. But don't do something different and expect me to know how to help you. I did it the way I've written about on this thread and other threads. I don't know how to help once you've contacted God and you still aren't getting your money. I didn't contact God. LOL!!!
 

Telepathetic

Gold Meritorious Patron
OK, there are so many threads about getting repayments, that I thought I'd just permanently post the letter that several people on this board have used to get a repayment. This is the letter my hubby wrote that got our repayments ($26K), GTs selectee's repayment ($200K), TookMeAWhile's repayment, etc. I'm sure there are more, but that's all remember at this moment.

November 26, 2006

Church of Scientology
Flag Service Org
503 Cleveland Street
Clearwater, FL 33755

Re: Full Refund of all Moneys on Account, $695.00

Attn: Treasury

I hereby demand a full repayment of all funds currently on account. Within the Church this is commonly referred to as “Advanced Payments”. I have decided to forego all future participation in the Church of Scientology and therefore will never use any money on account for future services. This letter shall serve as proof that I am leaving the Church of Scientology.

This demand includes, but is not limited to: money on account for counseling, money on account for training, money on account for books and other materials, as well as money which has been debited and currently held in my counseling folders as unused hours.

A quick and full refund is expected within 7 days of receipt of this letter. This demand is in accordance with existing Church Policy, the same Policy that was quoted to the IRS when the Church of Scientology was granted tax-exempt status. This Policy is commonly referred to as “Fair Use”.

Failure to comply with this demand will result in legal action by my attorney.

Sign

Copies to:

Parker Stanbury, LLP Attorneys at Law
US House of Representatives, Committee on Ways and Means


Note: WE DID NOT SEND COPIES TO OUR ATTORNEY OR THE WAYS AND MEANS. That was a scare tactic.

Note: Yes, we had to sign our own expulsion confirmation and yes, we got declared (completely off policy). I'd gotten two repayments prior to leaving the CofS and was NOT declared.

Note: We did NOT do a routing form.

Note: Between my hubby and I we got back $26+K. He only happened to have $695 on account at FSO.

We have had NO success getting hubby's money back from the IAS ($40K). However, TookMeAWhile did get money back. See his thread.

I sure hope this clears up all the confusion about repayments. Which are completely different from refunds.

Repayments = only money on account
Refunds = return of all money ever paid to the CofS for services (training, auditing, etc.)

Maybe all the people that have used the above letter should post how much they got back. Then GT and I would have a real "stat". :happydance:

You don't have to use the letter exactly as it is written, but it certainly is a place to start.

The checks my hubby and I received were dated within seven to 10 days of the date of our letter. The letter worked very well.

I say keep this Thread "bumped up"...always.

TP
 

Wisened One

Crusader
2. You DON'T really have to cc the Ways and Means or your attorney - just make the CofS think you did.
3. You DON'T need to call your councilman/woman.
4. You DON'T need to contact or cc the State Attorney General.

...Well, NOW they may have to do those steps...since I'm sure OSA or someone from the church may have seen this? :unsure:
 
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