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The McPherson Issue

Div6

Crusader
well, div 6, if i didn't think there was something rotten in denmark i would be in denmark rather than here

due process of law occurred. a wrongful death occurred and a suit was filed which was settled. that is due proess. by reason of due process we are informed of CoS's efforts to suborn a witness. among other things. exerting pressure on a medical examiner is an exceptionally pejorative act and for CoS to have done so is convincing evidence of something "very rotten in denmark". a truth of which i was personally very well aware before lisa's death in that my own very bright very beautiful son suffered a wrongful death in part because of CoS bullshit

however...

contrary to the apparent sentiment of those responding to my post i decline to endorse the proposed initiative to nuke denmark.

another very large part of my son's wrongful death derives from the extreme hatred of his stepfather for l ron hubbard and CoS. his mother and i met while working on staff at fcdc and he who had courted her for seven and a half years before we met reappeard in our lives seven and a half years later while we were expecting our third child. shortly thereafter i was railroaded into a psychiatric facility where i was subjected to crippling medical malpractice in extremis (forced drugging, "behavioural engineering" etc) at the direction of a german psychiatrist orn and raised in hitler's reich and then plying his craft at govrnment expense. your tax dollars at work. that is where i was when our third son was born and that is where i was when my wife dissolved our union over the telephone two days later.

yeah...

shit does happen don't it?

the very substantial hatred for hubbard and his work which my son's stepfather shares with so many of you is the primary reason i was not even informed of my firstborn's death until four years after it occurred and why i have been unable to have any contact with the other two for the past thirtytwo years

as it happens, i managed to get out of the shrinks lair and decamp to boston where i was in such bad shape that when i got my local driver's liscence the camera lash knocked me unconscious. fortunately i had an old friend, bobby ford, who ran the cambridge mission and over a period of ten days he did several hours of 2WC with me which mostly undid the damage caused by the shrink. of course, a couple years later the GO unmocked his mission and he and his wife a former course supervisor are living a good life very much outside of CoS

yes. there is something very rotten in denmark. but psychiatry suxx chancrous donkey dick and intelligent students of good will can use hubbard's work to undo it's depradations

my computer time is just about over so i'll further my craven vindicativ colleagues on this good board omorrow

luv ya


Love you too, man, love you too.

I guess in the "narrow" sense, 'due process' was done. But Justice was not.
And I don't think Mutually Assured Destruction is a viable alternative either, but it can be a "peacekeeper", sometimes.

Reading your narrative reminded me of something I read, I think, in 8-8008. Something about energies ro comm-lines that are best left alone, or unexamined.

I often wondered about that, in conjucntion with certain phenomenon I noticed that happened to beings attempting to increase their awareness around the Clear band. And that is that they seemed to always pull in "terminals of comparable magnitude, but with reversed vectors". As I have had some similar experiences (although not to the degree you have), I wonder sometimes, if, when "freeing" beings we aren't running a reverse dramatization, such that every one you "destroyed" on the way down, you will have to "handle" on the way up. And THEY WILL FIND YOU.

It's daunting really. I have seen even the best solo auditors crumble under the weight of "overwhelming charge"....kind of makes wonder if LRH didn't have something to that effect in mind when demarking the "no-interference zone'.

Just some random thoughts sent your way.

Take care.
 

Xenu's Boyfriend

Silver Meritorious Patron
well, div 6, if i didn't think there was something rotten in denmark i would be in denmark rather than here

due process of law occurred. a wrongful death occurred and a suit was filed which was settled. that is due proess. by reason of due process we are informed of CoS's efforts to suborn a witness. among other things. exerting pressure on a medical examiner is an exceptionally pejorative act and for CoS to have done so is convincing evidence of something "very rotten in denmark". a truth of which i was personally very well aware before lisa's death in that my own very bright very beautiful son suffered a wrongful death in part because of CoS bullshit

however...

contrary to the apparent sentiment of those responding to my post i decline to endorse the proposed initiative to nuke denmark.

another very large part of my son's wrongful death derives from the extreme hatred of his stepfather for l ron hubbard and CoS. his mother and i met while working on staff at fcdc and he who had courted her for seven and a half years before we met reappeard in our lives seven and a half years later while we were expecting our third child. shortly thereafter i was railroaded into a psychiatric facility where i was subjected to crippling medical malpractice in extremis (forced drugging, "behavioural engineering" etc) at the direction of a german psychiatrist orn and raised in hitler's reich and then plying his craft at govrnment expense. your tax dollars at work. that is where i was when our third son was born and that is where i was when my wife dissolved our union over the telephone two days later.

yeah...

shit does happen don't it?

the very substantial hatred for hubbard and his work which my son's stepfather shares with so many of you is the primary reason i was not even informed of my firstborn's death until four years after it occurred and why i have been unable to have any contact with the other two for the past thirtytwo years

as it happens, i managed to get out of the shrinks lair and decamp to boston where i was in such bad shape that when i got my local driver's liscence the camera lash knocked me unconscious. fortunately i had an old friend, bobby ford, who ran the cambridge mission and over a period of ten days he did several hours of 2WC with me which mostly undid the damage caused by the shrink. of course, a couple years later the GO unmocked his mission and he and his wife a former course supervisor are living a good life very much outside of CoS

yes. there is something very rotten in denmark. but psychiatry suxx chancrous donkey dick and intelligent students of good will can use hubbard's work to undo it's depradations

my computer time is just about over so i'll further my craven vindicativ colleagues on this good board omorrow

luv ya


Commander, there are so many contradictions in your post, that I wouldn't even know where to begin to start. But I will say, I am very sorry for the loss of your son. It's not my place to judge your anger or response to this experience, and as I don't know the circumstances, all I can say is, again, I am sorry. This must continue to be a source of great pain for you.

Still, it surprises me when you write, "due process of law occurred. a wrongful death occurred and a suit was filed which was settled. that is due process." I know you can't be naive enough to believe that just because due process occurred that that had anything to do with justice. The men who murdered Emmett Till in 1955 were "tried" and found not guilty of his death. They later bragged to a magazine that they did it, but they couldn't be retried. That was due process, but it wasn't justice. How can anyone say that due process occurred under the law with the McPherson case, when Marty Rathbun has admitted to destroying evidence? You may say that the law did what it could with the facts that it had, but one can never underestimate the influence of Fair Game on everyone involved. I feel that Lisa has never truly had her day in court, but I know it is coming.

Scientologists love to talk about the history of psychiatry and the damage it's done for "centuries and centuries" - when most people believe the early forms of modern day psychiatry began in the early 19th century, and the kind of psychiatry that CoS loves to go after relating to medicating people is very much rooted in 20th century psychiatry. When I hear Scientologists talking about the glory of LRH in his fight against psychiatry and how psychiatrists started to Holocaust, I just feel ill. It is psychiatry that helped people to stop seeing mental illness as demon possession or as something supernatural and evil, needing to be stamped out through exorcism. Isn't it interesting that with body thetans, LRH took us back in a time machine right back to that period of people having to clear/exorcise the thetans that "possess" them in order to move up the OT levels. No wonder he so adamant against psychiatry - he wants everyone to go back to the middle ages.

While again, I acknowledge your personal grief, I have no idea where the hell you are coming from with these posts praising LRH as it relates to McPherson and psychiatry. I'll leave it there.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
... but psychiatry

Then don't see one. Many people need their services and make appointments freely. In the outside world, you may choose from ANY medical or mental health service, and get help. This help, one is not forced to follow. You see, when you pay for advice, you don't have to take it. In the case of mental illness, proper medication in the correct dose for the given individual may be needed to live a normal a life as is possible.

Psychiatry is one of the oldest medical specialty areas. The professional organization known as the American Psychiatric Association (APA) has been in existence for over 150 years.

Because psychiatrists hold a medical degree and are trained in the practice of psychiatry, they one of the few professionals in the mental health field that are able to prescribe medications to treat psychological disorders. Much like a general practice physician, a psychiatrist may also perform physical exams and order diagnostic tests in addition to practicing psychotherapy.

Psychiatrists are the primary mental health-care givers. They assess and treat mental illnesses through a combination of psychotherapy, psychoanalysis, hospitalization, and medication. Psychotherapy involves regular discussions with patients about their problems; the psychiatrist helps them find solutions through changes in their behavioral patterns, the exploration of their past experiences, or group and family therapy sessions. Psychoanalysis involves long-term psychotherapy and counseling for patients. In many cases, medications are administered to correct chemical imbalances that cause emotional problems.

These are ... bad doctors? Types of Psychiatrists:

Addiction psychiatrist – Works with people suffering from addiction and substance abuse issues.

Adult psychiatrist – Works with adults experiencing mental illness or psychological distress.

Adolescent and child psychiatrist – Works with children and teens.

Forensic psychiatrist – Works in the courts and criminal justice system.

Geriatric psychiatrist – Works with elderly populations.

Neuropsychiatrist – Treats mental disorders associated with nervous system problems, brain diseases and brain injuries.

Organizational psychiatrist – Practices psychiatry in workplace and organizational settings.

The educational timeline for becoming a psychiatrist looks much like this:

Bachelor's degree: 4 years
Medical school: 4 years
Residency: 4 years

I know Ron always said that his "truth" is the only one. Easy to say when you're a drop-out and just pull "truth" out of ass.
 
Commander, there are so many contradictions in your post, that I wouldn't even know where to begin to start. But I will say, I am very sorry for the loss of your son. It's not my place to judge your anger or response to this experience, and as I don't know the circumstances, all I can say is, again, I am sorry. This must continue to be a source of great pain for you.

Still, it surprises me when you write, "due process of law occurred. a wrongful death occurred and a suit was filed which was settled. that is due process." I know you can't be naive enough to believe that just because due process occurred that that had anything to do with justice. The men who murdered Emmett Till in 1955 were "tried" and found not guilty of his death. They later bragged to a magazine that they did it, but they couldn't be retried. That was due process, but it wasn't justice. How can anyone say that due process occurred under the law with the McPherson case, when Marty Rathbun has admitted to destroying evidence? You may say that the law did what it could with the facts that it had, but one can never underestimate the influence of Fair Game on everyone involved. I feel that Lisa has never truly had her day in court, but I know it is coming.

Scientologists love to talk about the history of psychiatry and the damage it's done for "centuries and centuries" - when most people believe the early forms of modern day psychiatry began in the early 19th century, and the kind of psychiatry that CoS loves to go after relating to medicating people is very much rooted in 20th century psychiatry. When I hear Scientologists talking about the glory of LRH in his fight against psychiatry and how psychiatrists started to Holocaust, I just feel ill. It is psychiatry that helped people to stop seeing mental illness as demon possession or as something supernatural and evil, needing to be stamped out through exorcism. Isn't it interesting that with body thetans, LRH took us back in a time machine right back to that period of people having to clear/exorcise the thetans that "possess" them in order to move up the OT levels. No wonder he so adamant against psychiatry - he wants everyone to go back to the middle ages.

While again, I acknowledge your personal grief, I have no idea where the hell you are coming from with these posts praising LRH as it relates to McPherson and psychiatry. I'll leave it there.

well thank you XB, i am grateful for your condolences and even more so for the warmth displayed by this post.

and...

the enduring pain of my personal bereavement notwithstanding, you and all others are entirely welcome to contend fiercely with me and my opinions

i do praise much of ron's work. the man himself displayed some very human flaws
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
Lisa McPherson died in 1995. In what year was the Introspection Rundown rolled out to the Scieno Public? Was it that same year?
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
But when was it first "delivered" to the Scn Public?

Roland, that would be shortly after the date of its issue as an HCOB. Once something comes out as an HCOB, auditors are required to study it. In Scientology, these are referred to as "High Crime Checkouts" - required to study, drill and pass on the procedure of the latest tek released at your level.

If I recall what Karen#1 said correctly, it was originally a Class VIII action (still might be) - so as soon as there was someone available that needed it once it was issued (whether staff or public) a Class VIII would have been required to check out and drill the procedure (if not already done) and audit it.

Newly issued tek tends to be pushed hard, so it wouldn't have taken long.

Hope that answers.
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
Roland, that would be shortly after the date of its issue as an HCOB. Once something comes out as an HCOB, auditors are required to study it. In Scientology, these are referred to as "High Crime Checkouts" - required to study, drill and pass on the procedure of the latest tek released at your level.

If I recall what Karen#1 said correctly, it was originally a Class VIII action (still might be) - so as soon as there was someone available that needed it once it was issued (whether staff or public) a Class VIII would have been required to check out and drill the procedure (if not already done) and audit it.

Newly issued tek tends to be pushed hard, so it wouldn't have taken long.

Hope that answers.

The following link says it was available in 1988.

http://exscn.net/content/view/90/101/

Creepy and dangerous disclaimer:

"I understand, acknowledge and agree that the Introspection Rundown addresses only the individual's spiritual needs and I freely consent, without reservation, and without condition or limitation, to Church members conducting the Introspection Rundown, and that I accept and assume all known and unknown risks of injury, loss, or damage resulting from my decision to participate in the Introspection Rundown and specifically absolve all persons and entities from all liabilities of any kind, without limitation, associated with my participation or their participation in my Introspection Rundown."
 
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Please, please, please....There have been 100's of deaths in Scientology that have been handled in a similar fashion. I've had a hard time letting these go over the years. Lisa was actually pretty recent. Don't forget that...:duh:

hundreds?

last time i checked the "why are they dead?" thread i think there were 73 entries [a link to that thread would be appropriate to this thread if someone would provide it] several of them were suicides. we do not, for instance, convict and condemn the paramour when a jilted lover commits suicide. the suicides would gain significnce if they were enough to be a signifiant statistical anomaly. there may be as few as 50,000 active scnists in america but there are tens of thousands of americans who were active at least five years and hundreds of thousands who have at least done an HQS course. insurance companies pay VERY close attention to such things and if involvement with CoS produced such anomaly those of us who are paying attention would know about it

there are however a small number of deaths associated with CoS that involve suspicious circumstances and are of some interest
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
yes darling, it is...

but...

SHIT HAPPENS

and after shit happens life goes on...

Cross posted:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?29363-Ron-The-Criminal/page5

L Ron Hubbard's Scientology Kills Lisa McPherson

lisa_color_corrected.jpg

Lisa McPherson
February 10, 1959 – December 5, 1995


Death of Lisa McPherson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Lisa_McPherson

Lisa died needlessly at the hands of Scientology.
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/lisasum.htm

Lisa McPherson - Inside Edition
[video=youtube;QNmJeRqp6wQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNmJeRqp6wQ[/video]

Lisa McPherson - 17 Days
[video=youtube;iSy-y-ylPZI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSy-y-ylPZI&feature=relmfu[/video]

Lisa McPherson - Death In Slow Motion
[video=youtube;SCW2ZjAp9xU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCW2ZjAp9xU[/video]

Robert Vaughn Young
Deposition in the Lisa McPherson Case
[video=youtube;jyWPJplegfI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyWPJplegfI&playnext=1&list=PLD0EAC37F33721AD0&feature=results_main[/video]

Janet Reitman
How Lisa McPherson Died in the Hands of Scientology
[video=youtube;CJZptY6RcdE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJZptY6RcdE[/video]

The Tech Runs Its Course
A Commentary on the Lisa McPherson Case
http://www.xenu.net/archive/events/lisa_mcpherson/

Federal suit:
Scientologists spent $30 million to cover up death of Lisa McPherson
http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/282987/34/Federal-suit-Scientologist-spent-30-mil-to-cover-death

Scientology Accused of Spending Millions to Influence Florida Judges
http://ortegaunderground.wordpress....pending-millions-to-influence-florida-judges/

Scientology Leader David Miscavige Added as Defendant in Ken Dandar’s Federal Lawsuit
https://ortegaunderground.wordpress...-as-defendant-in-ken-dandars-federal-lawsuit/

2335635466_073df96372_z.jpg
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
hundreds?

last time i checked the "why are they dead?" thread i think there were 73 entries (snip)

Oh and re "shit happens", I recall Rinder on video saying, in response to a Q re Lisa's death, essentially the same thing...

He said "people die".

And yes, hundreds, - considering how secretive, covert and compartmentalized $cientology is. Imagine what we don't know!

I believe it would be accurate, if not an understatement to say hundreds.

I have a letter here from the man who filed the entire bridge including xenu and clearing course, etc, for copyright and his copyright is dated 6 months before RTC filed their OT levels... and HE says one thousand something deaths caused by scientology.. I just found it the other day... Ill type it in or post an image in a few.

arnie lerma
deprogrammer
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
yes darling, it is...

but...

SHIT HAPPENS

and after shit happens life goes on...

I do not find that when an alleged "church" is engaged in what is tantamount to murder that " SHIT HAPPENS " really covers it for a person that is even remotely sane.

And, no, " life goes on " is absolutely not true for the person to whom this " shit happens " is what snuffed out their life.

Commander BS, this is one of those days where a post of yours I find appaling and an affront to all humanity.

One day, I hope you look back & face the insanity of the words you have posted.
Meanwhile, I pity you and your ilk.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Yah, I question the "hundreds", too. Although, for all I know, it could be true. What if you factor in those who could have and should have lived longer but they got little or no medical care- either opting for none or were not permitted to get it? And poor nutrition, insufficient rest. Those shorten life spans, too.

But then we enter the realm of speculation. I'm not trying to minimize anything. It's just that we don't know. But as speculations go, it could be a good one.

We all die. Non Scn'ists often die too early because of genetics, environment or they don't take care of themselves. But it seems likely to me that the rate of such deaths is probably higher in CofS.

That being said, I agree with both Bird and Sweetness.
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Yah, I question the "hundreds", too. Although, for all I know, it could be true. What if you factor in those who could have and should have lived longer but they got little or no medical care- either opting for none or were not permitted to get it? And poor nutrition, insufficient rest. Those shorten life spans, too.

But then we enter the realm of speculation. I'm not trying to minimize anything. It's just that we don't know. But as speculations go, it could be a good one.

We all die. Non Scn'ists often die too early because of genetics, environment or they don't take care of themselves. But it seems likely to me that the rate of such deaths is probably higher in CofS.

That being said, I agree with both Bird and Sweetness.

I, for one, find no suprise at all in you stating you agree with " Bird ".. or that you seem to agree with him.
 
I do not find that when an alleged "church" is engaged in what is tantamount to murder that " SHIT HAPPENS " really covers it for a person that is even remotely sane.

And, no, " life goes on " is absolutely not true for the person to whom this " shit happens " is what snuffed out their life.

Commander BS, this is one of those days where a post of yours I find appaling and an affront to all humanity.

One day, I hope you look back & face the insanity of the words you have posted.
Meanwhile, I pity you and your ilk.

right off the top AT, i have never claimd to be even remotely sane.

if lisa was held incommunicado (being held incommnicado is in fact a significant aspect of her wrongful death) because it was feared she would reveal something about a CoS investigtion of the insurnace industry that coul be though tantamount o murder
 
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