The Media Are Afraid to Report What Mike & Marty are Telling Them!

Geir's a 'tragic figure' in that his heart appears to be in the right place, but, his clutch slips and he can't raise the integrity to honestly examine the workings of his 'chosen religion'.

That may change someday.

Zinj

Untrue. I have found Geir to be keenly aware of the "workings of his chosen religion", unlike many who routinely & automatically vilify all things "scientology". However, being an intelligent person, Geir is able to comprehend the matter of distinctions as well as identities, unlike the many who prefer to "lump things together" and thus fail to recognize legitimate distinctions.


Mark A. Baker
 
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SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
Hmm.. To call him 'Oedipus' is a highly intellectual and circumspect way of calling him a Muthaf*ker, isn't it?

Anyway.. Geir is ok I think. I kind'a like him, and I don't think he's a 'target' in this fight.

:yes:
 
WTF? :omg:

From my perspective you make some mighty odd classical allusions, TAJ. Geir as Oedipus? Rathbun as Alcibiades? Where did you get your classical background? Marvel Comics?

Alcibiades was one of the most naturally gifted leaders the Athenian upper classes ever produced. He was far & away superior in every quality which Attic society of the time admired and accordingly much the best of all the "kaloi kai agathoi". Socrates was a friend, mentor, and great admirer of his due expressly to his admirable qualities.

I had no idea you held Rathbun in such a high regard. :eyeroll:

Similarly, I fail to see any way in which Geir qualifies as either "oedipal" or "tragic". He could more easily be termed "Olympian" or "heroic". I think that of late you have been allowing your "poetic license" to roam a little too freely. :yes:


Mark A. Baker

Mark,

It is clear that you and I have completely different interpretations.

Whether Machiavelli or Cato, or Sophocles, or Alcibiades, or Adolph Eichmann.

We look at Classical and historic things differently, and that is the beauty of it, really.

But you must agree that if the classics teach us anything, it is that interpetaion and examnation comes from each person's heart and mind.

So we have different interpretations, and that comes from the difference in us, not in the stories.

(You have a point about Oedipus. I gave a little thought to it though. I picked Oedipus because I think Geir is at the stage where he is just calling on Tereisias (Alanzo) to find out the truth. Soon when he learns the truth he will be tearing his eyes out. Eventually after wandering the earth he will find peace and wisdom.)

The Anabaptist Jacques

PS. Alcibiades, despite his abilities, was a first-rate prick. Just like Marty.
 
Hmm.. To call him 'Oedipus' is a highly intellectual and circumspect way of calling him a Muthaf*ker, isn't it?

Anyway.. Geir is ok I think. I kind'a like him, and I don't think he's a 'target' in this fight.

:yes:

No, that misses the point.

The point is that he is a tragic figure. A person of high character whose hubris will cause him geat pain.

The analogy is that in his quest to solve the riddle he will see what it was he was a part of, and being a good man, will tear his eyes out (metaphorically).
And then one day he will find peace and wisdom.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 
I picked Oedipus because I think Geir is at the stage where he is just calling on Tereisias (Alanzo) to find out the truth. Soon when he learns the truth he will be tearing his eyes out. Eventually after wandering the earth he will find peace and wisdom.)

Now Alanzo as Teiresias, I rather like that image. But then Teriesias was a amphisexual blind old git who imagined himself a "seer" and who thought he knew the language of birds. That image is often consonant with some of Al's more disjointed musings.

I see Geir's relationship to Al however quite differently. I see Geir more in the role of an Hypatia of Alexandria despairing of ever getting one of her less accomplished, although more hubristic, christian pupils successfully across the Pons Asinorum.

O tempore! O more!



PS. Alcibiades, despite his abilities, was a first-rate prick. Just like Marty.

I don't know MR. What I do know about him may lend some credence to your interpretation. Although it is also possible that he is being "misjudged" due to a lack of "full information". I leave to the disclosures of time the full illumination of that point.

In the instance of Alcibiades, he did prove to be a bit of a prick. BUT, he was a prick with CLASS! He had panache, style & talent and displayed them in full. Nor did he ever betray a friend who had not betrayed him first. That is the mark of a "gentleman". :clap:


Mark A. Baker
 
Now Alanzo as Teiresias, I rather like that image. But then Teriesias was a amphisexual blind old git who imagined himself a "seer" and who thought he knew the language of birds. That image is often consonant with some of Al's more disjointed musings.

:D

I see Geir's relationship to Al however quite differently. I see Geir more in the role of an Hypatia of Alexandria despairing of ever getting one of her less accomplished, although more hubristic, christian pupils successfully across the Pons Asinorum.

O tempore! O more!

Cool. If Geir's father was a librarian then I'll concede on that one

I don't know MR. What I do know about him may lend some credence to your interpretation. Although it is also possible that he is being "misjudged" due to a lack of "full information". I leave to the disclosures of time the full illumination of that point.

I really don't know the guy either. I only know of him. But from what I know of him, or at least what I know of that he has done, I don't trust him. My orignal post was really addressing how some people are ready to jump right back into the frying pan again.

In the instance of Alcibiades, he did prove to be a bit of a prick. BUT, he was a prick with CLASS! He had panache, style & talent and displayed them in full. Nor did he ever betray a friend who had not betrayed him first. That is the mark of a "gentleman". :clap:

Mark A. Baker

I picked Alcibiades because of the harm he did to the Athenians. And then the Athenians trust him again. I shuld have included some exes as the Athenians.

But I think we see eye to eye on the richness and depth of the lessons that can be drawn from the classics. (I don't speak Greek by the way, so what I learned I learned by way of Barbarians).

The Anabaptist Jacques
 
I do not claim to know much about MR or what he is "really up to". I'm willing to consider, at least until proven otherwise, that his present actions are "intended for good" despite his past actions in the church and his more recent activities aimed at active interference with the progress of actions taken against the church by others, e.g. the Australian Inquiry. That doesn't mean that I accept his actions as being "good", merely that he may in his own mind intend them as such.

Nor do I consider that he has yet even begun to take full responsibility for his past activities in support of LRH & Co$ criminality. So no, I don't regard him as a "reliable" person either. :no:



I picked Alcibiades because of the harm he did to the Athenians.

Harm which they had brought upon themselves as a result of their own foolishness and in part from their gross mistreatment of the man. :yes:



And then the Athenians trust him again. I shuld have included some exes as the Athenians.

Hardly "trust", on either side. However, the Athenians were in a huge mess because of their own stupid venality. The exile of Alcibiades was a significant contributor to those problems. The smartest ones KNEW there best chance at salvation from the mess they had created for the city lay with him. When he had managed to once more "save the day" they screwed him again. Although, this time he was of course expecting it and was prepared.

Timeo danaos et dona ferentes ... (Fear greeks and the gifts they bear...)


The interesting question is: why did he bother to return and save the Athenians knowing they would in all likelihood turn on him again?



But I think we see eye to eye on the richness and depth of the lessons that can be drawn from the classics. (I don't speak Greek by the way, so what I learned I learned by way of Barbarians).

The Anabaptist Jacques

Yes! :thumbsup:


Mark A. Baker
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Ah yes, the gushers in Martyland, pouring out their high-pressure crude into the open Gulf. The valiant ESMBers are pouring on the dispersant Cultexit so the effluent is watered down some, but it is still polluting the environment.

Paul
:goodposting: That's good, Paul, damn good! :goodposting:
 

fisherman

Patron with Honors
Originally Posted by Dulloldfart View Post

Ah yes, the gushers in Martyland, pouring out their high-pressure crude into the open Gulf. The valiant ESMBers are pouring on the dispersant Cultexit so the effluent is watered down some, but it is still polluting the environment.

Paul

Yes, that is good, very good! :clap:
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
Nice assessment.

The whole thing is like a historical epic.

Geir is like an Oedipus character in a Greek Tragedy.

And Rathbun is a modern Alcibiades.

And Rinder is the epitome of the banality of evil.

Amazing.

The Anabaptist Jacques

Cross post from another thread:

Ok, yes----I post occassionally on Marty's board. Some of you may wonder: Why?
Well, there's a little thing in the OSA manual called their bible, "The Art of War".
In it Sun Tzu says a few key things that OSA uses, all the time:
1) Master Sun
"Cause division amongst them" (page 54)
2) Cao Cao
"Send interlopers to cause rifts amongst them"
3) Meng Shi
"Strike at their gaps, attack when they are lax, don't let the enemy figure out how to prepare.This is why it is said in military operations that formlessness is the most effective. One of the great warrior-leaders said, "The most efficient of movements is the one that is unexpected; the best of plans is the one that is unknown".

Which is why I believe Anonymous has been so very successful. Also, once I noticed there was this huge
division amongst Critics, Marty and Anonymous, I looked at who that supported, and decided to try being in more communication, not less.

Does that mean we all need to agree? Hell no, and no, we won't either. However, can we all just agree to disagree, and keep our attentions focused on key issues we all agree on, such as the abuses of C of $? Imnsho--to me that's our best and most effective mode of operation. Even if you don't agree with this, my suggestion is try to post more FACTS about the organization known as the "church" of Scientology and their abuses that we all know, but MANY new people do not. People are leaving daily. They don't need to step out into this collision of views between people they thought were going to help them, or at least be supportive of them.
I speak from experience on this one....and I'm telling you, it's a VERY key time for people. They need you, or anyone they find safe. If it's ESMB or OCMB--fantastic. If it's WWP---also excellent. If that's Marty or Mike--that's great, too. They've helped a bunch of new people wake up and leave, and many speak out, also. Good for them! And on top of that, all (from all 4 groups) have helped educate *tons* of people about these very abuses. Yeah!

They're (new people) out, and that's #1 great. #2 is hopefully they'll feel safe enough to speak out.

For people calling each other criminals, please let me remind you of the 3 goals of the Top Secret OSA Int Internet gang, re the Net:
1) Distract off of any topic having to do with anything they don't want known.

I understand people *want* Marty and Mike to say more. Ok, fair enough. Do you think calling them criminals will motivate them to say more, or less?
Try to think of yourself in a similar position. Which would help you be motivated more?
I know for myself, at first I thought of M & M, and not really knowing them personally, just felt they were separate--as it is a bit of a closed group, or so it seemed. I realized I'd never even tried to communicate with that group---and I did, and it's been
far different than I thought. Then I really looked at my own personal views, and I have always said I am speaking out against the abuses, the Human Rights Violations of
C of $, which they all are against, also. I believe people have a right to believe whatever they want. The information is out there, and some shall look at it, some may never. I ~think~we all can at least agree that the abuses are # 1.


2) Degrade any and ALL activists exposing any thing they (DM and gang) don't want known.


Hello? Perhaps we've all gotten a bit blase' about Davey boy beating people up, but until this either STOPS or serious Justice occurs, it hasn't been said enough, imnsho. **Tons** of people have zero clue about this, so every TV show done is good for all of us.
(and unless you've done TV shows, my view is don't start calling others names or ragging on them for not doing enough). Try to keep in mind: We all unravel at different speeds.

3) Slime any public area, so people literally are embarrassed to even post there.


The above was told to me a few weeks before I quit that group, forever.

I hope that helps. While "in" C of $, at the next to the top, I found exclusion rampant, and it sucked.

I'm interested in inclusion, and connections.
I believe we all have things
we can share and it's important we respect each other,
and help each other. God knows we all have been through enough! May we have more of this: :gathering:>>>not this::fencing:

My love to you all.
:rose:
Tory/Magoo
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron

It needs to be seen. Were you able to recognize who ultimately benefits with all these 'Attack the sh*t outta Rinder' threads and make a stand against it? I didn't notice... Perhaps your alarm clock failed to go off... (See your post)

All ya gotta do is PM me, instead of using this type of public attempt to label as 'spam' what is simply an attempt to broadly display a very much needed read.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
No KV, you're spamming. If you want something important to be seen all over ESMB put a link to it in your signature file and briefly explain why it is important.

What I do when someone is spamming like this (Mate did it re write-ups for the Inquiry) is simply put them on Ignore for a while and then I don't see *anything* they write for a day or week or whatever.

Paul
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
No KV, you're spamming. If you want something important to be seen all over ESMB put a link to it in your signature file and briefly explain why it is important.

What I do when someone is spamming like this (Mate did it re write-ups for the Inquiry) is simply put them on Ignore for a while and then I don't see *anything* they write for a day or week or whatever.

Paul

No Paul. No KV. No Panda. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.


BUT YES!

Take a break, do something different, laugh, don't give sh*t sometimes...


:D
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
It needs to be seen. Were you able to recognize who ultimately benefits with all these 'Attack the sh*t outta Rinder' threads and make a stand against it? I didn't notice... Perhaps your alarm clock failed to go off... (See your post)

All ya gotta do is PM me, instead of using this type of public attempt to label as 'spam' what is simply an attempt to broadly display a very much needed read.
Posting a thread about it was fine.
Post a link to it by all means.
Copy-pasta'ing the same post as KV's answer-to-everything on 5 additional threads is just puerile.

Tory's post isn't Spam, it's an excellent post as I said, you made it look like Spam.

As regards your epiphany about the criticism of Rinder and Rathbun;
You obviously don't pay much attention to what I write here on ESMB. I've said the same thing many times over the last 2 years. See my thread, "OSA Operatives - How To Guide" from 2008 for an example.

You really ought to lighten up a bit, mate, it's not that big a deal.

BTW, that "quote" you ascribed to me is a falsification. I said "Wake up" in a normal tone of font, you altered it to make it appear to be something else. Stick to truth-in-reporting, it'll serve you well.
 
Credibility.

KV Keeps posting something Tory wrote, presumably because Tory has excellent credibility and we will therefore be more likely to agree with KV after reading what Tory says.

It reminds me of this; a thread that Anonkat
put up a few days ago...

"..Let him who is without sin cast the first stone

Tory Christman, Mark Bunker, Mark Fisher, Marc Headley, Terril Park, Chuck Beatty,Larry Brenan, Krautfag, Heather G, Patricia Curtis and others post on Marty's Blog some even congratulate him with his marriage don't go Bawwing about his Imprisonement for getting drunk as proof he is a criminal.

These people are not bashing him (I believe).

I Anonkat/Cat Daddy AM on this list

Tory Christman
Mark Bunker
Mark Fisher
Marc Headley
Terril Park
Chuck Beatty
Larry Brenan
Krautfag
Heather G
Partricia Curtis
Amy scobee
Jeff Hawkins
J. Swift
Nancy Many
Cat Daddy/Anonkat
You..."

It was interesting to read Tory's views posted by KV.
But I'm not signing up for Tory club.
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
If it's so good then go post your support for it and get off your soap box of making FOUR little copies of it a bigger issue than the content of her post.

WAKE UP!

Posting a thread about it was fine.
Post a link to it by all means.
Copy-pasta'ing the same post as KV's answer-to-everything on 5 additional threads is just puerile.

Tory's post isn't Spam, it's an excellent post as I said, you made it look like Spam.

As regards your epiphany about the criticism of Rinder and Rathbun;
You obviously don't pay much attention to what I write here on ESMB. I've said the same thing many times over the last 2 years. See my thread, "OSA Operatives - How To Guide" from 2008 for an example.

You really ought to lighten up a bit, mate, it's not that big a deal.

BTW, that "quote" you ascribed to me is a falsification. I said "Wake up" in a normal tone of font, you altered it to make it appear to be something else. Stick to truth-in-reporting, it'll serve you well.
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
KV Keeps posting something Tory wrote, presumably because Tory has excellent credibility and we will therefore be more likely to agree with KV after reading what Tory says.

You might try thinking.

It should be evident after two years that I have little interest in others agreeing with me.

Think. Interesting isn't it?
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
Cross post from another thread:

I find this to be of relevance. For those who wish to make more of my few posts of it than the subject matter itself... LOVE, LOVE, LOVE

Ok, yes----I post occassionally on Marty's board. Some of you may wonder: Why?
Well, there's a little thing in the OSA manual called their bible, "The Art of War".
In it Sun Tzu says a few key things that OSA uses, all the time:
1) Master Sun
"Cause division amongst them" (page 54)
2) Cao Cao
"Send interlopers to cause rifts amongst them"
3) Meng Shi
"Strike at their gaps, attack when they are lax, don't let the enemy figure out how to prepare.This is why it is said in military operations that formlessness is the most effective. One of the great warrior-leaders said, "The most efficient of movements is the one that is unexpected; the best of plans is the one that is unknown".

Which is why I believe Anonymous has been so very successful. Also, once I noticed there was this huge
division amongst Critics, Marty and Anonymous, I looked at who that supported, and decided to try being in more communication, not less.

Does that mean we all need to agree? Hell no, and no, we won't either. However, can we all just agree to disagree, and keep our attentions focused on key issues we all agree on, such as the abuses of C of $? Imnsho--to me that's our best and most effective mode of operation. Even if you don't agree with this, my suggestion is try to post more FACTS about the organization known as the "church" of Scientology and their abuses that we all know, but MANY new people do not. People are leaving daily. They don't need to step out into this collision of views between people they thought were going to help them, or at least be supportive of them.
I speak from experience on this one....and I'm telling you, it's a VERY key time for people. They need you, or anyone they find safe. If it's ESMB or OCMB--fantastic. If it's WWP---also excellent. If that's Marty or Mike--that's great, too. They've helped a bunch of new people wake up and leave, and many speak out, also. Good for them! And on top of that, all (from all 4 groups) have helped educate *tons* of people about these very abuses. Yeah!

They're (new people) out, and that's #1 great. #2 is hopefully they'll feel safe enough to speak out.

For people calling each other criminals, please let me remind you of the 3 goals of the Top Secret OSA Int Internet gang, re the Net:
1) Distract off of any topic having to do with anything they don't want known.

I understand people *want* Marty and Mike to say more. Ok, fair enough. Do you think calling them criminals will motivate them to say more, or less?
Try to think of yourself in a similar position. Which would help you be motivated more?
I know for myself, at first I thought of M & M, and not really knowing them personally, just felt they were separate--as it is a bit of a closed group, or so it seemed. I realized I'd never even tried to communicate with that group---and I did, and it's been
far different than I thought. Then I really looked at my own personal views, and I have always said I am speaking out against the abuses, the Human Rights Violations of
C of $, which they all are against, also. I believe people have a right to believe whatever they want. The information is out there, and some shall look at it, some may never. I ~think~we all can at least agree that the abuses are # 1.


2) Degrade any and ALL activists exposing any thing they (DM and gang) don't want known.


Hello? Perhaps we've all gotten a bit blase' about Davey boy beating people up, but until this either STOPS or serious Justice occurs, it hasn't been said enough, imnsho. **Tons** of people have zero clue about this, so every TV show done is good for all of us.
(and unless you've done TV shows, my view is don't start calling others names or ragging on them for not doing enough). Try to keep in mind: We all unravel at different speeds.

3) Slime any public area, so people literally are embarrassed to even post there.


The above was told to me a few weeks before I quit that group, forever.

I hope that helps. While "in" C of $, at the next to the top, I found exclusion rampant, and it sucked.

I'm interested in inclusion, and connections.
I believe we all have things
we can share and it's important we respect each other,
and help each other. God knows we all have been through enough! May we have more of this: :gathering:>>>not this::fencing:

My love to you all.
:rose:
Tory/Magoo
 
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