The more absurd the belief, the more zealous the believer
- Thread starter AnonOrange
- Start date
CornPie
Patron Meritorious
This place is full of Christian bashers, AnonOrange isn't the only one. And I'm in favor of free speech, so whatever rocks their boat.
But the problem with Christian bashing at ESMB is, they're alienating the right-wing Christians, who have nowhere else to go, that's half as knowledgeable about evils of scientology as ESMB, and so easy to use, and so well run.
So there is this huge mobolizing force, that's 10000 times larger than Anonymous. They could put 100 protesters at Gold Base every day, without raising a sweat, to fight the scum-bags at scientology. Free speech isn't easy, is it?
Tiger Lily
Gold Meritorious Patron
That's an interesting argument CornPie. . . . you are right that there are huge numbers among Christians and if they knew what goes on on Scientology they would be horrified.
BUT, to purposely not express certain views to pander to an interest group seems a little suspect to me. EMSB is a collection of individuals. We are not an organized thought system. One of the things we celebrate here is the freedom to have our own thoughts and opinions. I don't want to see that squelched. Common decency says that we should respect each others opinions, but let's not kowtow to a group because they are powerful.
Also, this is not an activist board. If Christians don't like what's going on in Scientology they can fight that. They don't have to come here to this board. The primary reason this board is for here is for exes. Anyone is welcome, but I don't think we should change who we are to please someone else. I think that might be very restimulative, in fact, and the opposite of what this board is supposed to accomplish.
-TL
Francois Tremblay
Patron with Honors
Uh yea, thank you Mr. Post-Modernist.
In all honesty, I am not going to defend science here, as I don't believe in the kind of "consensus" science being done and defended in the 21st century by the capital-democratic system. It's complete indoctrination, with very little actual science being done. But one should be careful not to confuse actual, real science with what passes for science in our modern societies.
I will readily admit that I have one belief, one faith if you will. I believe in the unlimited potential of the unfettered human mind. The mind free from indoctrination and false selves imprinted on us by people who want to control us, whether it be social roles, religion, cults, the mainstream media, government, corporations, modern science, whatever, that free from this control a human being is basically decent, good and moral, and that a society free from all the elements that effect that control would be a decent, good and moral society.
Call me a quack if you want, call me your enemy if you want, but it's the only faith I think is any good.
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CornPie
Patron Meritorious
Agreed.
Ex-scientologists know more about scientology, than even those on the inside, and as I see it, so ESMB will be the best collection of that info for a long time.
ESPECIALLY, how hard the scientologists would come down on any Internet site it sees as a threat. I remember years ago, I looked at ARS, and their was so much noise I left in 2-3 days, because there were so many nasty trolls building their stats up. I can't begin to imagine the amount of crap Emma must be putting up with to keep this thing running.
But if an advocacy group does appear, that wants to bring scientology down, I'll have a look.
The Anabaptist Jacques
Crusader
"Science explains reality" is the 19th century scientific definition of science, not the 21st century scientific definition of science, which is at best, ambivalent.
Scientific knowledge is not universal. Do you know what the laws of gravity are on planets as yet undiscovered? No you don't. You can assert and hypothesies that everything follows the same laws of gravity and motion as Earth, but to claim that it is universal is to make the same, unproven, and unscientific claims that religion makes about the universe.
"Necesary" here does not mean vital or essential. Necessary means it must be true based upon reasoning. This phrase--"universal, necessary, certain and timeless" goes back to the ancient Greeks, it is Plato's definition as to what defines knowledge. Opposite to him were the sophists, who claimed that knowledge is particular, contingent, and relative.
Scientific knowledge is not certain.. It is drawn from empirical data which is always, always, always particular. If it is not particular, then it is not empirical.
Scientific knowledge is not timeless. If scientific knowledge was timeless then we would be back in the days prior to Michael Farraday.
You keep bringing up sub-atomic and quantum physics as a straw man fallacy. I am not talking about quantum physics. One line in what I said also refered to quantum physics. But I am talking about scientific knowledge.
Also, I am not talking about any other religion or Scientology. I am talking about science and refuting your claims that you have made throughout implying that science is universal, necessary, certain, and timeless. It is clearly none of those things.
I am pro-science, but you are cheer-leading for science as if it is a religion competing with the other religions. They are not in competition, and I don't think you understand that.
The Anabaptist Jacques
Alanzo
Bardo Tulpa
The opposite of Religion is science.
Science is the opposite of religion.
The more I look at this, the more I see that this would be an awesome crusade.
I'm very tempted to sign up for this one, and I mean for the long haul.
Leave no man standing in the war between Science and Religion!
Science is the opposite of religion.
The more I look at this, the more I see that this would be an awesome crusade.
I'm very tempted to sign up for this one, and I mean for the long haul.
Leave no man standing in the war between Science and Religion!
Could you please take up the recycling of plastic drink containers instead? Or, 'Global Warming'? Or 'Gun Control' or 'Smoking'?
Maybe *fat*!!! Yeah, get on the ball and crusade against FAT!!!
Zinj
Good twin
Floater
The Anabaptist Jacques
Crusader
I think science and religion/philosophy are the sides that hold the rungs on the ladder which can lift man to new heights.
(I made that metaphor up, I kinda like it.)
The Anabaptist Jacques
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
I can believe you would, A. I'm just unsure as to whose side, besides your own, you would side with. Quite possibly both.
Mark A. Baker
AnonOrange
Gold Meritorious Patron
I've spoken to some christians asking why they don't want to do anything to oppose scientology. In fact, last Saturday, I spoke to the Christian church accross the street from the Tustin org (for the second time). I explained how Scientology abuses tax priviledges and that the IRS has a special agreement with the CoS, allowing deductions (for courses) that are not allowed for other churches.
They don't want to do anything about it, in order to remain "good neighboors" with the CoS.
Ask other christian churches. They don't care. Tell me if you can enrol some of them, because I was not able to.
Christian churches could have opposed Scientology for the last 50 years and did nothing. They should know about forced abortions, about LRON's sayings about Jesus, all kinds of abuses, etc.
Anonymous and the OG may be smaller in numbers, but we'll get the job done. Christian churches, in my (limited) experience, will not do anything.
Another group that's been TOTALLY useless are the psychologists/ psychiatrists. Have you seen a liscenced psych at any of our protests ?
AnonOrange
Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm definitely not a post-modernist. I was accusing Alexm of being one, which may have confused you.
The mind has tremendous potential, but it's rarely unfettered. Religions drastically constrain it.
I think having faith in human abilities is certainly a belief I can accept. Also, with an open communication system (free speech, free internet, uncensored books, etc) we are more likely to acheive the full potential of those abilities. The scientific method requires free speech and you will note that whenever science screwed up, free speech was hindered.
AnonOrange
Gold Meritorious Patron
Plastic utensils are better for the environment than metal ones you have to clean. I've come to that realization after a lot of thinking about the environment. I know it sounds crazy, but it has to do with the energy used to make, handle, wash and re-use metal utensils. That's why all fast food joints use plastic (and to prevent theft). It's cheaper because it uses overall less energy, which is mostly non-renewable.
You've heard this first from me. Next time there's an environmental thread I'll post my (unorthodox) explanations.
Enviromentalism is a religion too (for the most part)
AnonOrange
Gold Meritorious Patron
YES WE DO. We have now discovered some 300 exosolar planets and their orbits can be calculated totally the same as ours. Gravity (appears thus far) to be universal. Prove me otherwise.
I think it means vital or essential. You need to "word clear" necessary.
Michal Farrady's discoveries are used to this day. The scientific method or process has worked thus far and I see no reason that it will not work in the future. We may find something even better, but science (the method) will always work.
"They are not in competition, and I don't think you understand that."
I do feel strongly that they are in competition. I have a different paradigm I guess.
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
CornPie
Patron Meritorious
1 -- I don't think scientology taxes and IRS are exactly hot buttons for Christians. But there are many others -- starting with their church members who have been duped in by the cult.
2 and 3 -- Christians haven't wanted anything to do with the scn fight, neither has anyone else. Plus I think it's fair to assume that they're subject to the same harassment as anybody else.
4 -- I hope Anonymous does get the job done. I'm always looking for a silver bullet, and will be shoveling any I find Anons way, as well as anybody else who looks like they're making a difference.
5 -- Maybe, maybe not. But if the far-right Christians get the urge against scientology, step aside, it's all over.
6 -- I sense psychs all over the place around here. Well done guys. And girl.
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The Anabaptist Jacques
Crusader
You have completely altered the meaning of what I have said. This is what I mean by a straw-man fallacy.
I don't mind having this debate. but I think you are being very disengenuous when you alter what I say and then argue against your alteration as if it was my point. Either answer me or don't, but don't shift and alter the meaning of what I say.
The Anabaptist Jacques
I don't mind having this debate. but I think you are being very disengenuous when you alter what I say and then argue against your alteration as if it was my point. Either answer me or don't, but don't shift and alter the meaning of what I say.
The Anabaptist Jacques
Alanzo
Bardo Tulpa
Accuracy is not important in a Crusade.
In fact, accuracy sucks in a Crusade. It's kind of a buzz-kill, really.
What's important in a Crusade is the Crusade.
