The Overboard Ceremony

[Sharone Stainforth]

He was not there till the 70s. He was a very tall strapping young man that ended up marryin g Nikki Freedman but that wasn't till the 70s. He arrived after I did and that was 71.

Are you absolutely certain,because he sure looks like the guy i remember and the surname i know.Or is there another Engleheart?
I'm really sorry if i have the wrong guy,but i don't think i have.
I have looked at a photo of him on the internet,however its not the original one i saw,so i can't be 100% certain.I will try and find it.
Could it be he was there ,left the ship then came back?
I'm sure your information is better than mine

I think he was shorter than Jans Erikson who was tall and skinny,but he was deffinitely a big strong guy.

I have always been small,5ft nothing,so every one is tall to me.
Tamasin

 

[Sharone Stainforth]

This is over on http://www.xenu.net/archive/so/

Operation Clambake Presents
The Sea Organization
Thank you Andreas

Scroll down,

There is a picture of someone being thrown overboard.I recognize the man but do not remember his name.I will never forget the guy in full navy uniform and sunglasses.He was the MAA, he was frightening and he was the one that told me "No one will believe you about the things that went on on the Apollo." In other words to a very frightened 12 year old,keep your mouth shut.
And i did,for almost 40 years.
Tamasin

 

[DartSmohen]

This is over on http://www.xenu.net/archive/so/

Operation Clambake Presents
The Sea Organization
Thank you Andreas

Scroll down,

There is a picture of someone being thrown overboard.I recognize the man but do not remember his name.I will never forget the guy in full navy uniform and sunglasses.He was the MAA, he was frightening and he was the one that told me "No one will believe you about the things that went on on the Apollo." In other words to a very frightened 12 year old,keep your mouth shut.
And i did,for almost 40 years.
Tamasin

The officer is Joran Robertson, I think the other guy is Ollie Budlong, The guy posing to be thrown over is a Swede, his surname is Anderson and he is the brother of Marlin Gelfan. The photo was taken in Corfu.

 

[Sharone Stainforth]

The officer is Joran Robertson, I think the other guy is Ollie Budlong, The guy posing to be thrown over is a Swede, his surname is Anderson and he is the brother of Marlin Gelfan. The photo was taken in Corfu.


It would seem i have made a big mistake with with the name of the viking,so who is Jans Erikson? I may not have got his name correct but i deffinitely have the right man.I could never forget him.

I can't apoligise enough and one of the reasons i was not happy to name names.

The guy posing,i never saw any posing whilst on board,they went overboard.

I have no idea who Marlin Gelfan is,iv'e never heard of him.
Tamasin

 

[ozzie]

Tamasin - no worries!

Marlin Gelfan is a woman - she was married to Peter Gelfan and ended up at SH for ages - was still there when I went to the Apollo in 71.

And yes, Dave Englehart was tall, big blonde curly haired and very young when he came to Flag. He always reminded me of a big teddy bear. He wasn't there in the 60s - he was new to SO when he arrived in the 70s.

But hey, no worries Tamasin.

Ozzie

 

[DartSmohen]

The officer is Joran Robertson, I think the other guy is Ollie Budlong, The guy posing to be thrown over is a Swede, his surname is Anderson and he is the brother of Marlin Gelfan. The photo was taken in Corfu.


It would seem i have made a big mistake with with the name of the viking,so who is Jans Erikson? I may not have got his name correct but i deffinitely have the right man.I could never forget him.

I can't apoligise enough and one of the reasons i was not happy to name names.

The guy posing,i never saw any posing whilst on board,they went overboard.

I have no idea who Marlin Gelfan is,iv'e never heard of him.
Tamasin

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, the photo was posed for the Auditor magazine.

One of the funniest sights was seeing the class 8 students all lining up on the deck in the morning. One guy was quietly emptying his pockets, passing stuff to trhose around him slipped his shoes off waiting to be called forward. His name was never called.

Talk about a MWH!. He had to gather his stuff back just as quietly, get his shoes back on and make out like nothing was anmiss, in case the MSS's saw what was going on.

The most popular overboard I saw was Peter Warren. He was Course MAA and he was scheduled for an evening overboard. Well, being such a dteested creep, virtually the whole crew crammed the side, on every deckspace available. So keen were the "overboarders" to throw him, he never got the chjance to take his glasses off. There was a HUGE cheer when he went over.
I guess there was some feeling of justice.

 

[DartSmohen]

BTW I was wondering if the cult kept any of Hubbard's cine films of people being thrown overboard, or did they destroy them as part of a coverup?

 

[grundy]

I wish I had spoken to Fred Fairchild more about his training on the ship before he passed away.

I knew him quite well. He was the ED at the Detroit Org when I first became involved, and the ED of the Detroit Org when I was born. He was a friend of mine last life too.

 

[Alan]

I wish I had spoken to Fred Fairchild more about his training on the ship before he passed away.

I knew him quite well. He was the ED at the Detroit Org when I first became involved, and the ED of the Detroit Org when I was born. He was a friend of mine last life too.

Fred and I probably came through the original Class VIII course, better than most.

We twinned together - had a fun time.

Both he and I would take a two hour nap during the day - that way we kept ourselves fresh. (Of course if found out - we would have been thrown overboard. The In Session sign on the door kept people way)

The course day was long......started at 8.00. a.m. where would line up to throw the flunking auditors overboard. Then onto course until 11.00 p.m.

Both Fred and I were Original SHSBCs and had done 1,000's of hours of auditing so we had built up a lot of auditor violations over the years - Fred and I Sec Checked each other on the Auditors Code - we flew through the course!

(Forever a squirrel!)



Alan

 

[Mark A. Baker]

I suppose there has already been somer stuff written about this, but I thought I would fill in some of the early details.

We were in Corfu, autumn of 1968.

Sitting in Diana's office with Hana, Hubbard came by. He was quite chatty and looking forward to the forthcoming Class 8 course. During the conversation he said " Well, whenever they flunk a session, we will throw them overboard". We all laughed, but Hubbard never laughed with his eyes. It leftm us with a question mark over the statement. Was he kidding? Or was he serious?.

... snip ...

I trust that this fills in some gaps for you on what you might have heard about these events.

I remember when I first heard about the practice of "overboarding" under the direction of LRH. It was long after the fact but I was horrified. Unfortunately this was not a practice unique to LRH by any means. It was not an uncommon "group justice" procedure among naval personnel during WWII.

Another major dramatization of "group aberration" by Hubbard's SO.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

The most popular overboard I saw was Peter Warren. He was Course MAA and he was scheduled for an evening overboard. Well, being such a dteested creep, virtually the whole crew crammed the side, on every deckspace available. So keen were the "overboarders" to throw him, he never got the chjance to take his glasses off. There was a HUGE cheer when he went over.
I guess there was some feeling of justice.

Was it "justice" or was it "revenge"? It seems to me that lrh acted out of revenge as opposed to the "ethics" code that he inflicted on everyone else.

 

[DartSmohen]

Was it "justice" or was it "revenge"? It seems to me that lrh acted out of revenge as opposed to the "ethics" code that he inflicted on everyone else.

I think, on reflection that it was Hubbard's Justice and our revenge.

 

[HappyGirl]

DartSmohen - I just discovered your amazing posts. It is taking a while to go through them all.

BTW I was wondering if the cult kept any of Hubbard's cine films of people being thrown overboard, or did they destroy them as part of a coverup?

Did you ever answer this?

HG

 

[DartSmohen]

DartSmohen - I just discovered your amazing posts. It is taking a while to go through them all.

Did you ever answer this?

HG

I am sure they are there somewhere. Maybe in a secret archive, or else they have been destroyed as they show the "unacceptable" side of Hubbard

 

[Matex]

I remember when I first heard about the practice of "overboarding" under the direction of LRH. It was long after the fact but I was horrified. Unfortunately this was not a practice unique to LRH by any means. It was not an uncommon "group justice" procedure among naval personnel during WWII.

I abhor the idea of non-consenting overboards, or of minors and people who can't swim. The practice should be fun. It's like any standard hazing at a decent maritime academy.

 

[DartSmohen]

I abhor the idea of non-consenting overboards, or of minors and people who can't swim. The practice should be fun. It's like any standard hazing at a decent maritime academy.

Matex,

Have you ever been thrown over the side of a passenger ship into a filthy harbour?

I can ASSURE you that the word fun doesn't come into it.

Especially when you have a nutter like Hubbard happily cine recording the proceedings.

Having been thrown overboard blindfolded as well, the encounter is all the more daunting.

Then again, seeing a person who could not swim panicking and going under the surface also is not a pleasant sight.

And again, when you dive in to rescue them, you get a lower ethics condition for interfering.

Such events tend to harden your resolve to survive and stand up to the bullies.

I stood up to Hubbard on 3 occasions and each time he backed down.

Dart

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Agreed, but Matex does make a point though; the military does do stuff like this. I suspect it's the way they weed out people who aren't going to be able to withstand the rigours and horrors of battle.

 

[Power Change]

Whilst the overboard ceremony was going on, Hubbard was two decks up redording the incident on his cine camera.

Hubbard had an absolute loathing for any homosexual man or woman (or coloured person in fact) and set out to destroy John.He assigned John as a galley hand, clearing up the aftermess etc. He has John thrown overboard blindfolded and his feet tied together, on more than one occasion.

More than one of us have heard Hubbard say" I hope the damn faggot drowns"
as John went over the side. I trust that this fills in some gaps for you on what you might have heard about these events.

Thank you for sharing these stories....it helps to remind me what a demented sick bastard Hubbard was. I always wonder though how you and other that lived through this-how it has affected your life.

It is so obvious from this and many other stories just how mentally ill and evil hubbard was, lest us not forget the true intention behind the development of scientology.

 

[DartSmohen]

Agreed, but Matex does make amake a point though; the military does do stuff like this. I suspect it's the way they weed out people who aren't going to be able to withstand the rigours and horrors of battle.

Maybe this sort of thing is what is required in the military or other sort of combat group.

It certainly was not neccessary in the SO.

DS

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Agreed. I think it damages people in the military as well, even if it is necessary.