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The Phoenix Lectures

Discussion in 'Scientology Technology' started by Clay Pigeon, Oct 26, 2017.

  1. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    About ten years ago I saw some Bridge Pubs promo for books and noticed it did not include The Phoenix Lectures. Then a few months ago I learned the book is no longer in print.


    Back in the last millenium The Phoenix Lectures was known as "The Handbook of OT" and was considered one of Hubbard's most important books. I skimmed through it only once in between the HAS course and Student Hat but I guess it was an out gradient as I didn't get much from it at the time

    But it astonishes me current management could get away with dropping PL.

    Does anyone know anything about this?
  2. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    I think this happened in the early 90s. I bought a copy around 1991 or 1992, and it disappeared shortly after that. I know that Dianetics Today also disappeared (before my time in Scn, I think). That was a weighty tome which, I think, had Standard Dianetics, or maybe R3R style Dianetics, in it. I don't think it had NED in it, which is presumably why it disappeared (but whatever happened to technical degrades?).
  3. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Dammit! I threw mine into the garbage about ten years ago and now it's going to become a collector's item. :cool:
    Demented Hubbatd likes this.
  4. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

  5. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Dianetics Today was required reading on the HSDC (Hubbard Standard Dns Course) both times I did it -- first in 1975 and a second time before NED came out. The most interesting part was the LRH-C/S'ed sessions from the first HSDC given on the Apollo. There was some stuff in there that wouldn't have passed for standard even when I first saw it. There was no R3R correction list in use, for example, and sometimes auditors ended session with bogged chains. LRH sometimes C/S'ed to "run out last session" as a fix. (I think they started using the L3B in 1971.) I recall he also one time gave a Well Done to a session with no F/N at exam, saying there were no errors in the session, just "F/N didn't make it to exam." (I read those sessions a lot of times; this was 40 years ago.) Dianetics Today wasn't included as part of the NED course (which I thought was kind of bogus even then).

    I don't know when they stopped selling Phoenix Lectures. That was a favorite of mine. Some interesting stuff in there, at least I used to think so. You used to be able to find it in PDF. You might search if you're interested.
  6. screamer2

    screamer2 Idiot Bastardson

    I think the idea behind all of this 'correcting' corrupted 'scripture' is based on the following axiom:

    “Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.” -- George Orwell, from the book, 1984
    Enthetan and pineapple like this.
  7. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader


    The banned Commander Birdsong AKA OINK AKA Uber AKA Doctor Smellfungus AKA Clay Pigeon is trolling you folks. :naughty:
    strativarius likes this.
  8. uncover

    uncover Gold Meritorious Patron

    Oh, Weedy ..... ah, Birdie is still alive ? How coool....

    Weedy.... ah, Birdie the reason is really simple:

    They stopped printing it, because you can download it now for FREE:

    So why waste any paper anymore for it ? Think about the positive effect on the rain forest....
  9. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    The Phoenix Lectures book was discontinued because it was a transcript of the lectures and a transcript is provided with the lectures when you buy them now.

    Dianetics Today was discontinued because DM said t wasn't written by Hubbard and so was scrapped from the line-up. However, it was not thrown out in orgs even though they were instructed to do so because C/S's liked it, it simplified running Dianetics and had simple Ruds that anyone off the street could be run on without instruction.

    Hymn of Asia was also removed from the line-up but was still available to OT 3 and up but only available at ASHO.
    Clay Pigeon likes this.
  10. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    I have the original 1968 first edition of the Phoenix lectures.


    It was an edited and reorganized transcript of Hubbard's 1954 lectures in Phoenix.

    The book was the idea of Hubbard's editor, John Sanborn.

    Sanborn regarded Hubbard as having achieved "peak brilliance" at that time.

    Years later, after leaving the organization, Sanborn explained that he didn't realize what Hubbard was going to do with his "peak brilliance" material.

    What Hubbard did with it was to use it as bait in a trap.

    Amongst other things, Sanborn was the one who exposed Hubbard's authorship of the 1955 hoax Russian Textbook on Psycho-Politics. (Which has been called the "blueprint" for Scientology.)

    It's not surprising, then, that the book, Phoenix Lectures, fell into disfavor - having been the creation of a "suppressive transcriber" etc. - and then disappeared.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
  11. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

  12. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    The Phoenix Lectures were not, actually, a transcript of the tapes. It was a conversion from spoken to properly edited writing. It was done with LRH's approval. If you just read the lecture transcripts you would see that it wouldn't work well as a book. Like other Scientology books, this was discontinued because it wasn't, strictly speaking, by LRH.

    But here is the funny thing about all that: None of the current Scientology books list L. Ron Hubbard as the author!

    All the current books list the author as "L. Ron Hubbard Library". You'll notice that the titles have been changed as well. It no longer is "Self Analysis" with the author as "L. Ron Hubbard". It is "L. Ron Hubbard Self Analysis" with the author as "L. Ron Hubbard Library".

    So, technically, none of the current Scientology books were authored by Hubbard. :omg: So, they should all be discontinued??:hysterical:
    cakemaker and Type4_PTS like this.
  13. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I expect the Church has something of an ongoing concern over copyright duration. They can't maintain the protections forever so I guess that means they have to keep switching things up, filing under new packaging and authorship and trying to make the old stuff go away.

    And I have an original copy of The PL also, cassettes and transcript... neener neener.
  14. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Oh Snap! No Fenix lectures. Booo. :dramaqueen: BTW! A friend of mine was reading PL ( or was it Creation of Human Ability ) and put down her glasses while reading it. When she realized she no longer needed them, she went back in the book but couldn't find where it happened.

    On the last Leah show they made a point that when you sign the Auditing contract you agree that everything Ron wrote was his opinion only and no promises are made by Scientology that you will get anything whatsoever from your auditing.


    I guess Hubbard has joined the ranks of ex Scientologists. Maybe he will post here sometime.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
  15. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    That was the book that hooked me. Quite stupid of Davy to drop such a huge piece of juicy bait. "Consideration take rank over the mechanics of MEST." Yup, the big OT hooks were laid out in that book, more so than any other. Guess they prefer to take you for $750 or whatever they charge for the lectures than 40 bucks for a book.
    StatPush likes this.
  16. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Yes, me too, that's why I said mine would become a collector's item. It was my favourite scn book.
  17. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    I threw most of my Scientology stuff in the garbage. The only things I kept were those that I thought may be quite rare such as Dianetics Today, Big League Sales Techniques and The Hidden Story of Scientology by Omar V. Garrison (yes I bought that at my local org).
  18. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    I never seriously thought TPL would ever become a collector's item, that was just a joke, but I was told by Hubbard that a copy of his specially reprinted sci-fi novel 'Return to Tomorrow' would, and so I dutifully bought a copy. Doh!

    I still have it.
  19. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Some years ago I believe I read that it contained the clear cog
    and that was why it was canceled.
  20. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    The reason for changing the books becomes lists evident when you browse the US Copyright Office website.

    For example, the 1968 edition of the Phoenix Lectures shows "Copyright Claimant: L. Ron Hubbard".

    The 1974 renewal shows "Copyright Claimant: Mary Sue Hubbard (W)"

    The 1985 edition has "Copyright Claimant: Norman F. Starkey, as executor of the Estate of L. Ron Hubbard"

    The 2007 edition has "Copyright Claimant: Church of Spiritual Technology, Transfer: by assignment. Address: PO Box 1182, Los Angeles, CA 90078"

    At each stage, a new edition was used to transfer the copyright into the hands of different people. Take a look at the chain of copyrights for other basic books. Back in the 1970's, LRH (realizing he was not going to live forever) gave the copyrights to various family members. The 1975 "Dianetics Today" has "Copyright Claimant: Diana Meredith Dewolf Hubbard (C)". Can't have that.