ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

The Phoenix Lectures

Discussion in 'Scientology Technology' started by Clay Pigeon, Oct 26, 2017.

  1. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    That's fine. So? I established what he meant by "works". That's what everyone should do when anyone claims "Scientology works". What is their criteria for "works". We inevitably find it is personal "think" rather than hard results.

    No one should go away with the idea that Scientology has any unique value.
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2017
    DonkeyOT likes this.
  2. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    There was a first manuscript - which was never a book - and it had several proposed titles, most notably the title Excalibur, from 1938.

    Some of the theory part of "Book One" (DMSMH) came from Excalibur.

    Other parts of DMSMH were derived from Hubbard's experiences with self induced (self drugged or natural sleep) unconscious states during self-hypnosis - done with a sound recorder, with a recording of his own voice proclaiming "affirmations."

    Other parts of DMSMH theory were derived from Hubbard's experiences as a do-it-yourself abortionist and avid wife beater.

    The general idea of prenatal memory was derived from earlier published speculations by others.

    Language (words) as a source of social and psychological problems had been popularized by Korzybski in his General Semantics.

    The subject of bringing relief from symptoms by uncovering buried trauma - called abreaction - had been around for decades.

    Hubbard "P.T. Barnum-ized" it, with promises of becoming a kind of superman, and added the manipulative mechanism of "survive!" by announcing that Mankind's survival depended on Dianetics.

    Original Thesis was a short manuscript, and not a little book until years later.

    There are actual books that have footnotes that are longer than either Original Thesis or Evolution of a Science.


    The magazine article, Evolution of a Science, also became a little book years later.

    Late 1960s edition with cover that Hubbard believed to have hypnotic power.
    Scientology is like a car that vibrates but cannot be driven anywhere. To a Scientologist, simply vibrating is tremendously impressive and sufficient to say, "Scientology works!" Arguing with Scientologists about this is usually a waste of time.

    Last edited: Nov 1, 2017
    DonkeyOT, Bill, Enthetan and 2 others like this.
  3. Edwardo

    Edwardo Patron with Honors

    There is no so.

    I just didn’t like the way you falsely quoted him and then attacked him for it. I thought he was right to call you on it.

    And then after that I didn’t like how you attacked him even more bitterly for pointing it out.

    That’s all.
  4. Demented Hubbatd

    Demented Hubbatd Patron with Honors

    I'm not an OT, so I cannot say with certainty if this book provides any data about the OT levels. This is what I heard from another ex-Scientologist who is not an OT, either -- A History of Man covers the entire track, it is the basis of the OT VIII data. The book does cover the whole track; in the 1960s, before the invention of the OT levels, it was the guide to a recollection of the past lives.
  5. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Flows of static electricity?
  6. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    HOM is a very early book covering time track stuff. Most of it is to do with GE (Genetic Entity) time track, not the 'thetan's time track'. For that reason, it's not really relevant to most of the OT levels. Running of GE stuff was downplayed early on. Also, the 'theta implant' stuff in there, such as fac one, is very late on the time track relative to the 'OT' stuff, and not nearly so elaborate. So HOM is more like an early extension of Dianetics. It definitely doesn't cover the 'entire track'. I think HOM was one of Hubbard's early attempts at seeing what he could get away with when he let his (or Nibs') imagination run wild.

    Shall we talk about how many angels one can get on the head of a pin? I don't believe Hubbard answered that question satisfactorily.
  7. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    I achieved that EP when I blew from Scientology and went back to college.
  8. EZ Linus

    EZ Linus Cleared Tomato

    Sorry to come into this conversation so late, but I wanted to interject a little something-something.

    Once I heard what OT3 was all about in 2000 (the whole body thetan thing), the first thing I thought about was what I read way back in the 1980s in HOM; BTs: genetics entities? So similar in my mind. It had to have sprouted from there.
  9. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    There are a lot of precursors to BTs in Hubbard's earlier work. Demon circuits, genetic entity, et. al.
  10. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Then you'll have to find a way to keep them from delving into the archive

    They might read The Commander's body of work with many specifics of what he's done with Hubbard's work.

    They might discover that just before he was banned the late great Commander Birdsong was speaking of doing "charismatic" "psychedelic" "telepathic" "magickal" "OT" sports wizardry and after his astonishing legendary success with the Bahhstin Red Sox and their transporting off-the-canvas down in games 0-3 trailing in the ninth of game four rally to beat their erstwhile long time tormentors (BUCKY BLEEPING DENT F'CRISSAKES!?!?!) he decide to see if he could alter the fortunes of longterm loser Kansas City team which in the third year of his attentions lost the Series stranding a triple on third down one run in the ninth of game seven at Kaufman Stadium and the next year when when the birdman of velcrotraz turned his attention to the Chicago Cubs and he announced on this board they would win their first Series since Teddy Roosevelt was in the White House within three years KC won the crown.

    The Cubs needed only two seasons to bask in October's glory for the first time since 1908 when Indian Head pennies were still fresh minted.

    I believe The Commandafuhrer also mentioned when The Brady Bunch racked up New England's first Super Bowl win he augured the rookie for five titles. Well, the sixth round draft pick, 292d overall earned his thumb ring down in Houston last February and Birdsong, God rest his innocent martyred soul, has the 114 million viewers worldwide as credible witnesses to what was generally thought to be a pretty good gridiron contest.
  11. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    No worries on that count. No one would think Scientology has any value after reading your posts "praising" it. :thumbsup:
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
    DonkeyOT and JBWriter like this.
  12. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    I also established Scn worked by recieving grade 4. A day or two later I found I briefly could control flows of misspelled words around my computer.

    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  13. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    A high and very useful OT ability!
    Clay Pigeon likes this.
  14. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    One staff member I was acquainted with claimed that he could make a traffic intersection, for his direction, quickly turn to green.
    What he did not know is that many traffic intersections run in coordination with each other (for better traffic flow).
    But he attributed this to his OT powerz.

    (Years ago on this MB, Alan Walters even mentioned this particular item.)
  15. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    I might be able to do that, after getting dressed, if I forgot to use "Bounce" dryer sheets in my cloths dryer after laundry.
    I would have to put those cloths on (and not just be naked after taking a shower).
    (My tongue in cheek!)

    Were you naked when you were "controlling" flows of static electricity around your body? :D
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  16. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Why make fun of what I post?

    This was a personal experience I had for a couple of days.

    There is a long history of people having intermittent
    or even permanent unusual abilities, especially in the area
    of bodily control.
    Google |"abilities of yogis".
    "This sounds like the stuff of science fiction, yet a number of yogis have demonstrated their extraordinary abilities under rigorous laboratory protocols. For example, the Menninger Foundation researchers observed Swami Rama demonstrating telekinesis—the ability to move objects without touching them.23 Sep 2014

    Yogis: Real Life Superheroes | Yoga International"
    cakemaker likes this.
  17. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    I make fun of what you post because IMO most of what you post is bollocks.

    Swami Rama (1925 - 1996), a yogi skilled in controlling his heart functions who was studied at the Menninger Foundation in the spring and fall of 1970, and was alleged by some observers at the foundation to have telekinetically moved a knitting needle twice from a distance of five feet.

    (Bolding mine.)


    'Nuff said!
  18. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    If people would keep the money they spend on scientology they could move out of fixed conditions by quitting their jobs and experience a huge resurgence in their ability to choose, partake in and enjoy new activities by traveling around the country.
  19. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    That's a reasonable question. Why do people make fun of what you post?

    Well, I can only answer for myself. I do it because what you post is illogical and silly. It's not your fault, it does not appear that you were never taught scientific method or logic.

    Your comment about "people having unusual abilities" makes my point. You actually think the fact that there are unsubstantiated and unproven reports of odd occurrences means that your unsubstantiated and unproven story must be accepted seriously.

    Not only that, but you believe that your unsubstantiated and unproven story proves that Hubbard's "tech" must be valid -- and we have to accept that as fact as well.

    It does not appear that you can understand what is wrong with your logic -- so some of us make fun of it.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
    DonkeyOT and JBWriter like this.
  20. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Because we have less than optimum randomity?