The purpose of ESMB

uniquemand

Unbeliever
http://www.freezoneearth.org/HolyCows/cows/01groupengram.htm

"The clearing of this engram consists of an examination by the whole group of the arbitraries, which is to say the orders and commands which were issued without explanation and which demanded instantaneous action on the part of other individuals in the group. The person issuing these orders, or persons issuing them, should demonstrate how the situation existed and the why and wherefore of these orders. In this way the engram is cleared out of the group. Rational discussion of this situation and communication of the situation restores the ideals and ethics of the group."
 

Power Change

Patron Meritorious
Is this stickied asa reminder because of the politics thread, the smitty's new book 4 sale thread, the 2-3 and 4 word post threads, the movie threads....etc etc... or the other off topic threads we all seem to be immersed in lately?

:confused2:
 

ttamaad

Silver Meritorious Patron
Just thought I'd bump, after reading all the posts today.

For those who have not read Emma's original post - it's one that's worth reading.

Cheers :)

um er... what posts are you referring to specifically?

To be fair, I have been reading a fair few posts today and I don't really see anything that appear to be counter to Emma's post

There appears to be some great posts, in fact! Supporting and enhancing the great values that ESMB is becoming well known for.

The spirit of play is alive and well
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
I think the point is that ESMB actually HAS a purpose, it's not here for entertainment value or the amusement of "interesting" people.
IMHO, it would serve that purpose better if we try to stick to helping others, supporting each other, answering genuine questions and spreading the word about the destructive nature of the actual intentions and activities of the CofS.
Just my thoughts on it, Panda. :)
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
I think it's great to have a resource like this, something that helps people, which this forum does.

But can't hurt to have some entertainment value, too. That's why they have the off topic section.
 

Carmel

Crusader
Is this stickied asa reminder because of the politics thread, the smitty's new book 4 sale thread, the 2-3 and 4 word post threads, the movie threads....etc etc... or the other off topic threads we all seem to be immersed in lately?

:confused2:

um er... what posts are you referring to specifically?

To be fair, I have been reading a fair few posts today and I don't really see anything that appear to be counter to Emma's post

There appears to be some great posts, in fact! Supporting and enhancing the great values that ESMB is becoming well known for.

The spirit of play is alive and well

OK - I'll be more specific!

This morning I read all the posts (that I hadn't already read in the last 48 hours) - that were on the threads specifically relating to Scientology. FYI, that did not include any of the "off topic", word threads, pub thread, or the likes of - so their content was not what prompted me to bump this thread of Emma's, today.

What prompted me was the volume of 'personal' criticism and/or scathing responses from some members to others - because of some apparent disagreement with another's opinion.

In Emma's OP on this thread, she states "If you had to characterise this board in any way I would suggest it could be called a "support" or "recovery" board."

Totally fine to disagree with or slam an idea or concept - but firing bullets at an individual for voicing that idea or concept, is an entirley different matter, and hardly in alignment with "support" and "recovery" (especially when done to those new or relatively new on the board).

Many of us have felt angst (or still do) about the CofS and/or Scientology. The members on the board aren't the cause of that though, and shouldn't be incorrectly targeted for it.
 

ttamaad

Silver Meritorious Patron
I think the point is that ESMB actually HAS a purpose, it's not here for entertainment value or the amusement of "interesting" people.
IMHO, it would serve that purpose better if we try to stick to helping others, supporting each other, answering genuine questions and spreading the word about the destructive nature of the actual intentions and activities of the CofS.
Just my thoughts on it, Panda. :)

I agree entirely, there are forums on this board for that purpose alone. There are, however, also forums for humour, off topic discussion, and various other subjects,

these forums were put there for a purpose too, and they are attracting an audience as well. This can also help in the support and help that the other forums on this board give.

To say that we should stay inside the scn framework is to say that there is only one way to help and support people. I get comfort and support here and enjoy being here, I get entertainment from the humour forum and also offer and get support and help in other forums.

I am curious as to why this has become an issue when there are very few flame wars happening and there has been little or no upset around the various forums??

As far as I can tell, everyone is supporting Emma in providing a safe and helpful environment.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
I agree entirely, there are forums on this board for that purpose alone. There are, however, also forums for humour, off topic discussion, and various other subjects,

these forums were put there for a purpose too, and they are attracting an audience as well. This can also help in the support and help that the other forums on this board give.

To say that we should stay inside the scn framework is to say that there is only one way to help and support people. I get comfort and support here and enjoy being here, I get entertainment from the humour forum and also offer and get support and help in other forums.

I am curious as to why this has become an issue when there are very few flame wars happening and there has been little or no upset around the various forums??

As far as I can tell, everyone is supporting Emma in providing a safe and helpful environment.

I understand, mate, but to illustrate my point, consider this;
If I sent a wavering scn'ist in Doubt a link to ESMB, what impression might that person get from reading, say, Today's Posts on any given day?
Try to think like a scn'ist for a moment; is ESMB a reasoned forum about scientology or is it full of natterers, flamers, "Jokers and Degraders" and witty personalities?
I think it strives to be the former but who knows what the newbie thinks?
That's all I'm talking about. Many new people are coming here in ever-increasing numbers to find out about CofS, read the Ex's stories and find out how they're experiencing life and coping with being out, only OSA is coming here to find out about Ex's peccadilloes.
Believe me, I appreciate fun and humour as much as anyone and enjoy the levity here. I regularly spray coffee on my monitor from laughing at things I read on ESMB (some of which are even intentionally funny).
I'm not trying to be the fun-police, I'm just giving my opinion about what I see.
And what I see is a wealth of VERY valuable data about actual experience in scn, drowning in a sea of pap!
Please Note: This opinion is not intended to denigrate the very fine work of ESMB and is not aimed at anyone in particular so there's really nothing to defend. :)
Love, Panda
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think the point is that ESMB actually HAS a purpose, it's not here for entertainment value or the amusement of "interesting" people.
IMHO, it would serve that purpose better if we try to stick to helping others, supporting each other, answering genuine questions and spreading the word about the destructive nature of the actual intentions and activities of the CofS.
Just my thoughts on it, Panda. :)

Well that's some good thoughts and good reasons for this board to be here.

Emma's post states that the board is here for ex's to have a safe place to recuperate. Part of recuperation is also the sharing between members. That sharing is not always just the act of coming out about difficult experiences and being supported. I have given and received on that end and it's been good. As my head has cleared, I have also found myself engaging in 'simple living' and or 'fun experience' discussion or online activity with members who enjoy the same. That has tremendous therapy value. Everybody moves at their own pace. If some remain serious or prefer to be 'on purpose' to such a degree that 'amusement' or 'being interesting' seems less valuable, or 'base' then fine, let them grow through that or stay there indefinitely; If others find great growth and value in an assortment of interchange with each other then so be it. What works for some doesn't for others. Hopefully we have learned that lesson from being in the cult and having Scn. run our lives and control us. Scientology doesn't work; the core of that non-workability is pervasive, disrespect for individuality and the right to ones own pursuit of life and happiness.
 

Carmel

Crusader
Regarding the spirit of play....

I don't think Panda or anyone is saying or advocating that we should only "stay inside the scn framework", while on the board. We all enjoy at least a bit of fun - in this forum there for is plenty of room for that and at times it can be a very pleasant activity and/or distraction.

However, one could argue that too much of anything can spoil the flavour - so food for thought.
 

Carmel

Crusader
I understand, mate, but to illustrate my point, consider this;
If I sent a wavering scn'ist in Doubt a link to ESMB, what impression might that person get from reading, say, Today's Posts on any given day?
Try to think like a scn'ist for a moment; is ESMB a reasoned forum about scientology or is it full of natterers, flamers, "Jokers and Degraders" and witty personalities?
I think it strives to be the former but who knows what the newbie thinks?
That's all I'm talking about. Many new people are coming here in ever-increasing numbers to find out about CofS, read the Ex's stories and find out how they're experiencing life and coping with being out, only OSA is coming here to find out about Ex's peccadilloes.
Believe me, I appreciate fun and humour as much as anyone and enjoy the levity here. I regularly spray coffee on my monitor from laughing at things I read on ESMB (some of which are even intentionally funny).
I'm not trying to be the fun-police, I'm just giving my opinion about what I see.
And what I see is a wealth of VERY valuable data about actual experience in scn, drowning in a sea of pap!
Please Note: This opinion is not intended to denigrate the very fine work of ESMB and is not aimed at anyone in particular so there's really nothing to defend. :)
Love, Panda

Well said Panda - and obviously I agree!

There'll always be varying degrees of the different types of contribution on the board. I don't like seeing how the scales have tipped recently, because I find it somewhat contra to the purpose of the board and to the potential benefits for the many.
 
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KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
OK - I'll be more specific!

This morning I read all the posts (that I hadn't already read in the last 48 hours) - that were on the threads specifically relating to Scientology. FYI, that did not include any of the "off topic", word threads, pub thread, or the likes of - so their content was not what prompted me to bump this thread of Emma's, today.

What prompted me was the volume of 'personal' criticism and/or scathing responses from some members to others - because of some apparent disagreement with another's opinion.

In Emma's OP on this thread, she states "If you had to characterise this board in any way I would suggest it could be called a "support" or "recovery" board."

Totally fine to disagree with or slam an idea or concept - but firing bullets at an individual for voicing that idea or concept, is an entirley different matter, and hardly in alignment with "support" and "recovery" (especially when done to those new or relatively new on the board).

Many of us have felt angst (or still do) about the CofS and/or Scientology. The members on the board aren't the cause of that though, and shouldn't be incorrectly targeted for it.

I understand what you are saying here Ceedia and I think it's good to be said. At the same time I'm a bit dis-connected from it because there is no identifying of specific instances. while I have seen some of what you are talking about, I have noticed it mainly when a new member (who has not already established himself through the new member introductions) suddenly jumps into a forum thread and shoots off their viewpoint stating something that is pro-nazi-scientology AND upsetting to those who came here to get the hell away from neurotic crazy scientologist think. I haven't seen this type of attack come upon newbies who are looking for answers and trying to break out of the scilon mind-fu*ck.

Another area that is just IMO quite impossible to avoid head clashes in has to do with the butting of heads between ex-cos and ex-lrh members, the latter being those who either believe or know that the tech is full of, or mostly full of bunk; not just the cos and or lrh.

The the ex-cos group still call themselves scientologists which is hipocritical to the the ex-lrh member and this area often leads to personal battles. The reason is IMO because the ex-lrh member knows that the ex-cos members can easily lead the unsuspecting into the clutches of the cos (even though they try not to). Further the ex-lrh member knows that the 'tech' even outside the cos is more harmful than not, and leads to delusions.

These two sides of the coin are gonna heat up and often. How is one to ever get around that? Yes it's good to remind members of the 'rules' when they get too drawn into a skirmish but it's always gonna happen anyway, ALWAYS. Why do I think so?... Because for many the very process of healing travels slowly through the phase of ex-cos member into PART ex-lrh member or FULL ex-lrh member. Thus the fact that these 'personal attacks' or skirmishes happen at all is A Very Necessary and Unavoidable Part of Healing. IMO nobody should have to go around the board in Fear or Paranoia of making a mistake. IMO, longer term members who know the ropes better and have befallen the pitfalls waiting all members are best equipped to offer a light handed, humorous or smart antidote post when they see this occurring.
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well said Panda - and obviously I agree!

There'll always be varying degrees of the different types of contribution on the board. I don't like seeing how the scales have tipped recently, because I find it somewhat contra to the purpose of the board and to the potential benefits for the many.

I like what you are saying but I am confused about this 'seeing how the scales have tipped recently' statement. I not saying that it hasn't BUT by what determination has it been judged to have tipped so. This generality is now being treated as a 'fact'.

Please be very specific about how this conclusion has been drawn.
 

HappyGirl

Gold Meritorious Patron
First, I would like to give a big thank you to Emma. I got a tremendous amount from this board, and although things can always be improved, I think ESMB is awesome just the way it is.

I also think every single one of you has a point, and expressed it very well. But what are we to do about it? How can we go about living our lives on what someone else might think? We don't even know they will think it, they just might. And considering there are 9 billion viewpoints on this planet, how are we going to be "safe" in covering everyone's viewpoint? I agree that new people should have the "perfect" place to come to, but what exactly is that?

Maybe we should have a very specific area for "NEWLY OUT" to go to that contains the most pertinent threads (addressing topics of fear of leaving CoS, personal escape stories, etc.) Maybe in the "newly out" section we can put up a big welcome with tips on how to use this board, to start with the stories, or search for threads of interest, etc., so they don't get overwhelmed with the "off topic" distractions. Actually, I have PMd a couple of newbies with tips that I found useful when I first got started.

What else can we do? Worrying about what the newbies might think, and trying to figure out what our behavior should be is a little crazy-making, don't you think? We are a very diverse bunch that can barely please each other, let alone people that haven't even arrived here yet. :)
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think the point is that ESMB actually HAS a purpose, it's not here for entertainment value or the amusement of "interesting" people.
IMHO, it would serve that purpose better if we try to stick to helping others, supporting each other, answering genuine questions and spreading the word about the destructive nature of the actual intentions and activities of the CofS.
Just my thoughts on it, Panda. :)

I don't think Panda or anyone is saying or advocating that we should only "stay inside the scn framework", while on the board. We all enjoy at least a bit of fun - in this forum there for is plenty of room for that and at times it can be a very pleasant activity and/or distraction.

However, one could argue that too much of anything can spoil the flavour - so food for thought.

For me, it's quite fine for Panda or Ceedia to voice anything they wish, however when something is stated it's stated and normally for a reason. That reason may be valid for one, a few or many. Those reasons are either personal preferences or 'hard board rules'.

The entertainment postings are not the healing path for all. Those who don't need them or who indeed find them distracting to their purpose can simply choose to post elsewhere and ignore what they don't 'need' or 'like'. If I have a day that I 'need' a healthy dose of funning around with my board buddies perhaps because reading all the other serious ones can have a depressing effect... Then I'll go to the humor sections.

I could of course make posts or start threads stating how I find it to be un-therapeutic for folks to be creating 'too much' seriousness and how that is not helpful to members.... but WHY? Others may need that and I would never deny them that. I left the controls of Scn. to turn the tides against such control freak experiences.
 
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Carmel

Crusader
I like what you are saying but I am confused about this 'seeing how the scales have tipped recently' statement. I not saying that it hasn't BUT by what determination has it been judged to have tipped so. This generality is now being treated as a 'fact'.

Please be very specific about how this conclusion has been drawn.

Ok, first off - here's the "purpose of the board" per FAQ

"What is the purpose of the board?

The board is for Ex Scientologists of all "denominations" to get together and talk things over.

Some leave the church because they are forced out by some insane ethics order yet remain true believers; some left of their own accord because it stopped making sense; some find the tech truly workable but management corrupt; some find the earlier tech workable but call the Golden Age of Tech the "work of squirrels"; some don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and some feel that there is no baby at all.

Some practice Scientology alternatives, some practice Freezone Scientology, some use bits and pieces in their daily lives and some want nothing more to do with it.

It is likely that most people are happy where they sit in regards to Scientology. They have their minds made up about it and no amount of discussion will change that. This board is not meant to be a vehicle to plead your case, reconvert the fallen or preach your brand. It is designed to allow people to connect up, gain some understanding of our differences, learn to respect each others opinions and find some peace with it and hopefully within ourselves.
"

When I first came to this board (only a few months ago now), I considered that mostly the board was in alignment with it's stated purpose. Currently I have the consideration, that it seems to have gone off that track somewhat.

Specifics as to why:
- Today a newbie posted his first post, on the anti scn = anti life thread. I consider that he was slammed for it, in a very disrespectful manner.
- Yesterday, I read a chat (after the fact), that was a shocker! The offender was later banned, but the fact that she was given the stage and the audience for the length of time that she was - was surprizing and disappointing.
- Having someone log into chat with something like "any 'fuck pigs' around here today" (as an introduction), when members were mid chatting - would/could arguably be considered direspectful and rudely offensive.
- Reading the two word/three word threads and seeing stuff like "suk fuk yoo" with reply "anytime kv anytime" would/could be the same - and in addition, render those threads exclusive to a minority.
- Reading or receiving stuff like "One need only examine your Freezone discussion groups to see what a bunch of Elron space cadets you guys are." is an example of a personal affront.

If these instances were just "one off's", they would probably just be like water off a ducks back, but in recent days/weeks - not so! They appear to be on the increase and are hence affecting the vibe/flavour/tone of the board.

In my mind those who have kept up to speed with the daily posts, would have also observed the change.
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ok, first off - here's the "purpose of the board" per FAQ

"What is the purpose of the board?

The board is for Ex Scientologists of all "denominations" to get together and talk things over.

Some leave the church because they are forced out by some insane ethics order yet remain true believers; some left of their own accord because it stopped making sense; some find the tech truly workable but management corrupt; some find the earlier tech workable but call the Golden Age of Tech the "work of squirrels"; some don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and some feel that there is no baby at all.

Some practice Scientology alternatives, some practice Freezone Scientology, some use bits and pieces in their daily lives and some want nothing more to do with it.

It is likely that most people are happy where they sit in regards to Scientology. They have their minds made up about it and no amount of discussion will change that. This board is not meant to be a vehicle to plead your case, reconvert the fallen or preach your brand. It is designed to allow people to connect up, gain some understanding of our differences, learn to respect each others opinions and find some peace with it and hopefully within ourselves.
"

When I first came to this board (only a few months ago now), I considered that mostly the board was in alignment with it's stated purpose. Currently I have the consideration, that it seems to have gone off that track somewhat.

Specifics as to why:
- Today a newbie posted his first post, on the anti scn = anti life thread. I consider that he was slammed for it, in a very disrespectful manner.
- Yesterday, I read a chat (after the fact), that was a shocker! The offender was later banned, but the fact that she was given the stage and the audience for the length of time that she was - was surprizing and disappointing.
- Having someone log into chat with something like "any 'fuck pigs' around here today" (as an introduction), when members were mid chatting - would/could arguably be considered direspectful and rudely offensive.
- Reading the two word/three word threads and seeing stuff like "suk fuk yoo" with reply "anytime kv anytime" would/could be the same - and in addition, render those threads exclusive to a minority.
- Reading or receiving stuff like "One need only examine your Freezone discussion groups to see what a bunch of Elron space cadets you guys are." is an example of a personal affront.

If these instances were just "one off's", they would probably just be like water off a ducks back, but in recent days/weeks - not so! They appear to be on the increase and are hence affecting the vibe/flavour/tone of the board.

In my mind those who have kept up to speed with the daily posts, would have also observed the change.

I get what you are saying. And I see most everybody working towards getting better and working out their post scn 'mental disorders'. If you've got a magical way of making us all happily follow the rules in a set manner I bid you good luck. I know the board has some problems but I don't see that there is any major problem or even a looming one. It appears to me that it is very healthy and better than it was when I arrived her six week ago.

I appreciate your viewpoint and am glad that you've stated it.

I think that if the 'boards health' were in serious question that we'd see ramifications of that. If we want to accurately judge whether the board is offering a healthy experience to members then administrative surveys could be done and the results posted.
 

Carmel

Crusader
Additional data......

I get what you are saying. And I see most everybody working towards getting better and working out their post scn 'mental disorders'. If you've got a magical way of making us all happily follow the rules in a set manner I bid you good luck. I know the board has some problems but I don't see that there is any major problem or even a looming one. It appears to me that it is very healthy and better than it was when I arrived her six week ago.

I appreciate your viewpoint and am glad that you've stated it.

I think that if the 'boards health' were in serious question that we'd see ramifications of that. If we want to accurately judge whether the board is offering a healthy experience to members then administrative surveys could be done and the results posted.

Currently I know and/or am in contact with about 60 people in my area who I or others have directed to this board. These people are sitting on the fence now, and are looking for themselves - in an effort to decide which direction to take in regard to Scn and the CofS!

I (along with others) get feedback on a constant basis about how this board is perceived. Carping criticism, disrespect, flaming, and 'joking and degrading' to any sizable degree - just results in a big "REJECT" by them.

I suppose congratulations are in order to OSA lately. The odd OSA troll has done a good job of stirring people up and getting some pretty off the rail responses. This in turn could/would/has resulted in a perception for some - that this board is just full of a bunch of out of control, griping imbeciles.

This board IS and HAS BEEN a saviour to many. It's good to have it there, known and seen as such - by the many who are still looking and still to come.
 
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