The Reactive Mind DOES NOT Exist --and never did!

Cherub

Back from the Dead
Hi everyone. I started a similiar thread on Xenu.net some months back, and I am interested in your thoughts :)
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject: The Reactive Mind Does Not Exist!
Subject description: New perculated perception after 10 years of review and research

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have been gathering evidence of this fact for quite some time now. In fact, after believing it for 30 years then discovering there were some problems with Hubbard's definitions -- amongst other crimes -- it has been only this recent year where I have began to start adding things up. First I will sum things up.

(1) In the entire recorded history of Man's philosophies, cultures and religions, spanning perhaps at least 15,000 years, there has never been any mention or discovery of a "Reactive Mind."

(2) In the same period of time many if not most all religions and cultures allude to a Single Mind, which can be looked at in 3 types of emanations or phases of consciousness - namely, a super-conciousness, self-consciousness, and sub-consciousness. I am generalizing here and am not particularly getting into "aspects of Godhead" at this point.

However, everything started to point to the center for me as I inspected the reality that Hubbard INVENTED the entire thing. Before you immediately resist the idea and come back with reasons, think about the possibility -- for just a moment. What about all the changes which we all experienced, the Charge reduced, the BTs blown, etc.

What if .... what if.... the Reactive Mind, Hubbard's R6 Bank, is in fact just a tiny aspect of the Subconcious Mind itself? People feel "better" or get new "power" because most of the Tech is derived from ancient workable religious or magical practices -- all of which delt with the subconscious mind's training and control. Used as a form of cohersiveness and MEST enforcement, what all the auditing does is solidify that part of the subconscious mind that Hubbard has labeled "reactive mind.". Additionally, if my reasoning and deductions are correct, this will point to the greater solidification which makes that aspect of the subsconscious which acts like a Reactive Mind in fact to become more solid itself -- the exact opposite of what scientologiest believe they are doing. Yet in fact well considered with intent by the inventor of the R6 - L Ron Hubbard himself. It is auditing itself which creates the greater portion of and power of the "R6" itself by freezing the subconscious mind into a kind of stagnative density. It is an amazing self-perpetuating invention!

The Reactive Mind doesn't exist. It never did at all!

And just for starters -- this could explain why OTs, over the years, constantly complain about still not getting or being able to get what they want in life; why there is always, every few years, a new set of BTs or Upper Level problems, or perpetual discoveries of "out tech" to explain away ineffective case gain. I have watched OTs with the same personal problems as all over people 1967 -- over and over and over and over and over -- until 1997 -- and concluded they not any different than most of the people on the planet -- in fact usually appear to have more problems them everyone else -- which is par for the course when you have a cult group who considers everyone not in agreement with their desire to control the world their enemy - LOL!!

More to follow. Your thoughts?

You may view the rest of the thread at:
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?highlight=cherub+reactive+mind&t=23383


~The Cherub~
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
You may be right, Cherub. (I'm glad you didn't call yourself "Darling" - You may be right, Darling :))

But, how important is it? Hubbard virtually abandoned the pursuit of Clear in the 50s. Why did he come back to it? My guess, is that he couldn't make OTs and people wanted somekind of stable datum in handling their own cases instead of a super-long-haul gradient of going OT. Also, people like status (don't they Alanzo?).

Personally, I want to handle case. I don't care whether it's part of "the bank" or not. I've never given a toss whether I was Clear or not. Now, If Clear guaranteed that I could become a great fusion guitarist and irresistable to women, I might get motivated. :)

I started a thread "What the hell is Clear?" which would overlap with this thread a little. You may want to check it out.


Cheers

tanstaafl
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Amen.

For what its worth, my theory is that training and education are far far more valuable than any processing. I beleive that people educated properly and applying that education to the rasing of children (and loving their children, which I have totally missed out on, being raised in the SO and disconnected from my dad), can prevent most of what is attributed to reactive mind. I think sanity is attainable easily through education. And non-restimulative environment. No - not that - they need a tough environ to learn to survive, but it does not need insanity such as abuse added to it - that is what I mean.
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
Hi everyone. I started a similiar thread on Xenu.net some months back, and I am interested in your thoughts :)
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject: The Reactive Mind Does Not Exist!
Subject description: New perculated perception after 10 years of review and research

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have been gathering evidence of this fact for quite some time now. In fact, after believing it for 30 years then discovering there were some problems with Hubbard's definitions -- amongst other crimes -- it has been only this recent year where I have began to start adding things up. First I will sum things up.

(1) In the entire recorded history of Man's philosophies, cultures and religions, spanning perhaps at least 15,000 years, there has never been any mention or discovery of a "Reactive Mind."

~The Cherub~

It was Hubbard's simple con to talk people into believing they had a problem called "the reactive mind" and then sell them the solution to free themselves from it and make him rich in the process. You can tell its a con because people have to be "trained" to believe it exists, after a while. They have to learn about how it "works". Of course, charge money for the "training" as well so adding the training con onto the original con and make even more money.

But if it's any consolation, most people are sensible enough not to be taken in by such an obvious con. Those that are perhaps deserve it.
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
Like you?

I was always searching for proof but never found it. When the R&D materials came out I was expecting to find evidence of the research so I could work through it and evaluate it, but it wasn't there. I was getting disillusioned at that stage but then I discovered Xenu.
 

Roadrunner

Patron with Honors
Hi everyone. I started a similiar thread on Xenu.net some months back, and I am interested in your thoughts :)
Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject: The Reactive Mind Does Not Exist!
Subject description: New perculated perception after 10 years of review and research

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have been gathering evidence of this fact for quite some time now. In fact, after believing it for 30 years then discovering there were some problems with Hubbard's definitions -- amongst other crimes -- it has been only this recent year where I have began to start adding things up. First I will sum things up.

(1) In the entire recorded history of Man's philosophies, cultures and religions, spanning perhaps at least 15,000 years, there has never been any mention or discovery of a "Reactive Mind."

(2) In the same period of time many if not most all religions and cultures allude to a Single Mind, which can be looked at in 3 types of emanations or phases of consciousness - namely, a super-conciousness, self-consciousness, and sub-consciousness. I am generalizing here and am not particularly getting into "aspects of Godhead" at this point.

However, everything started to point to the center for me as I inspected the reality that Hubbard INVENTED the entire thing. Before you immediately resist the idea and come back with reasons, think about the possibility -- for just a moment. What about all the changes which we all experienced, the Charge reduced, the BTs blown, etc.

What if .... what if.... the Reactive Mind, Hubbard's R6 Bank, is in fact just a tiny aspect of the Subconcious Mind itself? People feel "better" or get new "power" because most of the Tech is derived from ancient workable religious or magical practices -- all of which delt with the subconscious mind's training and control. Used as a form of cohersiveness and MEST enforcement, what all the auditing does is solidify that part of the subconscious mind that Hubbard has labeled "reactive mind.". Additionally, if my reasoning and deductions are correct, this will point to the greater solidification which makes that aspect of the subsconscious which acts like a Reactive Mind in fact to become more solid itself -- the exact opposite of what scientologiest believe they are doing. Yet in fact well considered with intent by the inventor of the R6 - L Ron Hubbard himself. It is auditing itself which creates the greater portion of and power of the "R6" itself by freezing the subconscious mind into a kind of stagnative density. It is an amazing self-perpetuating invention!

The Reactive Mind doesn't exist. It never did at all!

And just for starters -- this could explain why OTs, over the years, constantly complain about still not getting or being able to get what they want in life; why there is always, every few years, a new set of BTs or Upper Level problems, or perpetual discoveries of "out tech" to explain away ineffective case gain. I have watched OTs with the same personal problems as all over people 1967 -- over and over and over and over and over -- until 1997 -- and concluded they not any different than most of the people on the planet -- in fact usually appear to have more problems them everyone else -- which is par for the course when you have a cult group who considers everyone not in agreement with their desire to control the world their enemy - LOL!!

More to follow. Your thoughts?

~The Cherub~


This is you may say an introspective matter in where one must not lose his objectivity. If you observe your mind and see how it wanders around it does indicate that there is some sort of stmulus-respons mechanism active. This in itself is the reactive mind. This is also the reason why brainwash may work at all. You just implant a memory and then stimulate that when some particular commando is given. Hypnosis techniques easily prove the correctness of this. Is there a reactive mind, I would say there most definitily is!

(1) In the entire recorded history of Man's philosophies, cultures and religions, spanning perhaps at least 15,000 years, there has never been any mention or discovery of a "Reactive Mind."​

Not a very good argument. Many philosophers have been occupied themselves with this with various results.

(2) In the same period of time many if not most all religions and cultures allude to a Single Mind, which can be looked at in 3 types of emanations or phases of consciousness - namely, a super-conciousness, self-consciousness, and sub-consciousness. I am generalizing here and am not particularly getting into "aspects of Godhead" at this point.​

Also not a very good argument. If there is such a thing as a reactive mind, then one should understand that this is not under our direct control (if not programmed for a purpose). Naturally then it does not represent itself in major streams of religion because man as a flock animal selects by general agreement. You will find however some answers when you listen to those that actually caused these religions to come into existence.

The OT problem is a different one, which I will not go into here.

RR
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I was always searching for proof but never found it. When the R&D materials came out I was expecting to find evidence of the research so I could work through it and evaluate it, but it wasn't there. I was getting disillusioned at that stage but then I discovered Xenu.

How long were you in?
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I was in for 5 years but I was just public. I didn't fancy joining staff and working long hours for no money. I never got far with processing because it did not work well for me.

I see. Thanks for answering.

I'm just following up on your comment here where you said:

But if it's any consolation, most people are sensible enough not to be taken in by such an obvious con. Those that are perhaps deserve it.

And I'd like to ask you:

How much money did you spend on this "obvious" con?

And my last question:

Did you deserve it?
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
I see. Thanks for answering.

I'm just following up on your comment here where you said:



And I'd like to ask you:

How much money did you spend on this "obvious" con?

And my last question:

Did you deserve it?

The money I spent on taped lectures I passed on to a freezone outlet where I hope the money was not wasted and I am sure it was not. I wrote the Xenu Leaflet as well as webbing loads of sound bytes that were damaging to the cult. I paid the Church back for the con worked on me several fold. I knew that a con was on from the start and I made sure I could respond, if need be, in kind -- and I did!

The cult deserved it. I was the deserving administrator of their punishment.
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
The cult deserved it. I was the deserving administrator of their punishment.

I wonder how many serial killers and megalomaniacs have used that line through history? :) Perhaps you were just doing God's work? Did "the voices" tell you to do it?
 

Roadrunner

Patron with Honors
Would you like to go into it elsewhere? Say, with a new thread? I'm interested in what you have to say about it.

OT is what you make of it. You can even be OT without doing some OT levels. Only these things can manifest itself of which the person he himself is or can be aware. For the same reason you can only audit out (remove the barrier) these things that you can actually see. Part of this is the level of responsibility one has taken. An OT cannibal also still would make just a cannibal.

Do OT powers exist. I believe they do. I have seen people being able to do strange things. One should be aware of one thing though and that is fear. If you let fear take control then forget becoming OT.

RR
 

Little Bear Victor

Silver Meritorious Patron
Roadrunner,

You have some interestingly constructive arguments. (I mean it -- they're not bad.)

Reactive Mind: Okay, this may well be a newer name for the subconscious mind as Royal Prince Xenu said, but there are some phenomena that would support its existence. You mentioned brainwashing. I would add hypnosis. Unless someone wants to explain how hypnosis works if there isn't a subconscious mind.

Or is the whole argument about the difference between what the subconscious mind supposedly is and what the reactive mind supposedly is?

OT: Would you like to expand upon "people able to do strange things" from your own observation. I know a lot of people that do strange things, but that could hardly be called "OT."

Victor
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
I do NOT believe in a reactive mind as a single entity. I do NOT believe in engrams.

I DO believe in bad experiences that can affect your thinking and behavior.


A couple of really mild simple examples:

My Dad got very sick on some shrimp when he was young. He still won't (or can't) eat shrimp.

My daughter got really sick on an orange flavoured protein drink not too long ago. Now, she won't drink or eat anything orange flavoured.
 
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