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The Real Third Party by Mike Rinder

AnonKat

Crusader
To obtain a good subjective reality on it, you'll need to spend ten of fifteen years being sued, and generally Fair Gamed, by Scientology. Then, after you've accumulated huge legal bills and debts to people who lent you money - and who, after years, want, or need, their money back - find yourself at a "settlement" meeting, with your own lawyers also wanting to be paid for years of work.

It's not quite as simple as a "buy off."

11 page SP declare

http://freezone.najbjerg.info/dokumentation/david_mayo_sp_declare

image_view_fullscreen
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
To obtain a good subjective reality on it, you'll need to spend ten of fifteen years being sued, and generally Fair Gamed, by Scientology. Then, after you've accumulated huge legal bills and debts to people who lent you money - and who, after years, want, or need, their money back - find yourself at a "settlement" meeting, with your own lawyers also wanting to be paid for years of work.

It's not quite as simple as a "buy off."

No its defintely not, and I get that. I was ehoing some responses I'd gotten from others. I have always tried to keep up with David. I was uneasy to read of his account in jail under horrible conditions and of Julie being picked up and detained in the D.R. and his money being confiscated. I have many times inquired about him and sadly it seems like this is the general consensus and dissappointment. I was looking for someone in the know who maybe could verify that he HAD to disconnect from the subject as a stipulation of the settlement which took ages to get. The settlement he had to use to pay a lot of the lengthy legal help. I have no criticism of David.
 
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AnonKat

Crusader
No its NOT! And I understand totally. I have always tried to keep up with David. I was uneasy to read of his account in jail under horrible conditions and of Julie being picked up and detained in the D.R. and his money being confiscated. I have many times inquired about him and sadly it seems like this is the general consensus and dissappointment. I was looking for someone in the know who maybe could verify that he HAD to disconnect from the subject as a stipulation of the settlement.

http://www.holysmoke.org/dm/dm.htm
 

Veda

Sponsor
Miscavige propably wrote or edited the issue, but Hubbard was giving the orders. Mayo had no illusions about Hubbard being behind his firing, his kidnapping, and his being held against his will, and other abusive "handlings" of him during 1982/83.
 

greebly

Patron with Honors
Hmm the ideal org video is a few months old.

Took him a while I guess to figure it out and type that. Hopefully he has instead been busy speaking out more.


1....wait a few months...+1 =2

Yes carry on buying real estate please, lots of it until you have run out of cash reserves. That's around another 30 or so buildings.

Then secure loans against those buildings while prices fall.

Then watch base rates rise as inflation rises.

Then watch all those buildings default on thier secured loans and get turned into nice McDonalds or houses/apartments for the ex-scns.

Hugs
Greebly
P.S. If you would like Sharone or myself to build hedges around your "ideal orgs" to help protect them, send me a PM.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Forgive the top-post, but the real 3P is LRH.

The conflict is between the scientologist and his perceived enemies, the "psychs". In reality, "psychs" are good, well-educated people who have dedicated their lives to making other people's lives happier. There are bad people who enter these fields to dominate others and take their money (like LRH under cover of his "religion angle"), but they are a small, small minority.

The conflict is kept going because of LRH's need to destroy his competition. Psychotic scientologists believing they are stuck in a 76 million year old incident are acting to destroy "psychs", because a former occultist stage magician that founded a "religion" for the express purposes of smashing his name into history and making buttwads of money tricked them into doing so for HIS benefit. Now that he's dead, who benefits? Yes, Miscavige. Yes, whoever takes over after him (like, maybe, Rathbun? Rinder? who?).


The Real Third Party
Thursday, 18 February 2010 16:20

There has been some discussion of late concerning the 3P that exists between “Scientology” and “Independents”.

LRH states: The law would seem to be:

A THIRD PARTY MUST BE PRESENT AND UNKNOWN IN EVERY QUARREL_FOR A CONFLICT TO EXIST.
Or
FOR A QUARREL TO OCCUR, AN UNKNOWN THIRD PARTY MUST BE_ACTIVE IN PRODUCING IT BETWEEN TWO POTENTIAL OPPONENTS.
Or
WHILE IT IS COMMONLY BELIEVED TO TAKE TWO TO MAKE A FIGHT, A_THIRD PARTY MUST EXIST AND MUST DEVELOP IT FOR ACTUAL CONFLICT TO_OCCUR.

It is very easy to see that two in conflict are fighting. They are very visible. What is harder to see or suspect is that a third party existed and actively promoted the quarrel. The usually unsuspected and “reasonable” third party, the bystander who denies any part of it is the one that brought the conflict into existence in the first place.

One sees two fellows shouting bad names at each other, sees them come to blows. No one else is around. So they, of course, “caused the fight”. But there was a third party. Tracing these down, one comes upon incredible data. That is the trouble. The incredible is too easily rejected. One way to hide things is to make them incredible.

This theory might be thought to assert also that there are no bad conditions that cause conflict. There are. But these are usually REMEDIAL BY CONFERENCE UNLESS A THIRD PARTY IS PROMOTING CONFLICT.
If you look at the conflicts that Scientology is involved in, they range from “the Church” versus “Independents” to “the Church” versus “the media”, versus “the government”, “the French”, “the pharmaceutical companies”, “the psychs”, “the SPs”, “the squirrels”, “the out ethics public”, and on and on. Even the staff versus the public.

There is an old principle of investigation: trace back who benefits. What purpose is there for all this conflict to be fomented. There is an easy answer for that – one that every Scientologist is aware of, and it is increasingly apparent to one and all that it has become more important than the orgs and delivering LRH tech. The IAS. Every conflict, every disaster affords a new reason that money needs to be donated to the IAS.

But, LRH also says, you have to locate the hidden BEING behind the conflict.
That’s also easy. Look to see who benefits.

Who benefits from the IAS money? The Machiavellian Midget himself. It is this money that he uses to prop up his own PR and keep himself in power. It is this money that is used to buy empty buildings (as everyone just saw at the last IAS event) and generate PR about the “massive inroads” Scientology is making into the world with programs that are shown in PR videos at Miscavige’s events.

Remember, The incredible is too easily rejected. One way to hide things is to make them incredible. That is the reason Scientologists cannot spot the real 3P. It is too incredible. How could the “Dear Leader” who has been responsible for the incredible expansion of Scientology, be a bad hat 3P? Well, he has conducted a campaign of PR by redefinition of words.

The big lie he is perpetrating is that Scientology is expanding like never before. The evidence to “prove” this is the purchase/renovation and opening of “new” Ideal Orgs. In truth, MEST has been substituted for real expansion in a sleight of hand that has been so deft that most Scientologists don’t see it. Of course, every person who calls himself or herself a Scientologist naturally wants to see Scientology expanding. Who, other than a real SP, would not want others to achieve the gains they have achieved? Who, other than a real SP, would not want to destimulate the planet by getting as many people as possible to be able to erase their reactive minds? Who, other than an SP, would not want everyone to be able to read and understand what they are reading with Study Technology. And after all, we all want a Cleared Planet as our ultimate goal.

The expansion of Scientology and the destimulation of the peoples of earth IS the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics. And even a new Scientologist knows that this is the formula that when applied enhances survival. So, how do you persuade otherwise intelligent, well-meaning people (that is, the Scientologists of the world) to ignore obvious outnesses? You make the outnesses seem small when compared to the greater good. The LRH example comes to mind – if a vaccine saved thousands of lives, but killed a few, is it a pro-survival solution? Of course. So if under Miscavige’s leadership the Church has expanded at “explosive” rates does it really matter if he has been beating people up, spending money like a Saudi prince, knocking hats off those junior to him, destroying the management infrastructure etc. etc. etc.? Of course not.

But, what if that explosive expansion actually DIDN’T exist? What if those things that are said about Miscavige were not only true, they had in fact destroyed the very structure of organizations and management that LRH put in place, turning the executive echelon of Scientology into a mob of broken, mindless individuals, thus guaranteeing that no expansion would occur. What then?

Then Miscavige would have to come up with a way of demonstrating “expansion” without really having any, using whatever resources were available. Miscavige doesn’t have competent management at his disposal. But, he does have MONEY. Hundreds of millions of dollars. And though money won’t buy you love, nor happiness, it will buy MEST. So, here is Miscavige the Magician’s trick. Scrap the LRH plan of building orgs to St Hill Size (too hard to do anyway – and then there are those damned staff that have to be gotten to OT in the orgs and there’s no management to organize that) and replace it with “Ideal Orgs”. Oh how clever. There IS an LRH policy called Ideal Orgs, so it sounds legitimate. And you just keep talking about Ideal Orgs and make it the “thing to do” and pretty soon everyone will forget about the St Hill size orgs. And slowly, but surely, you redefine even the concept of an Ideal Org to being “ideal BUILDING”. And then you tell everyone that this is THEIR problem and make them “part of the game”. So, the OT Ambassadors and the local OT Committees and all local Scientologists now buy into the laudable objective of having a nice building for their org. But building the org itself – the people and the theta – they drift quietly into the background (until it comes to “Grand Opening” when a lot of people are going to see the “Ideal Org” on video and the broken down, discarded staff from Int and staff from other orgs are shipped in to make it appear temporarily the place is something more than merely a building).

So, Miscavige tells one and all that he is spearheading this massive expansion, proven by the “new” Ideal Orgs that are being opened. You hear it at the International events and you read about it in Freedom – pages and pages about Miscavige opening orgs (and not a mention of L. Ron Hubbard). And obviously anyone who says Miscavige is anything other than perfect is just an SP trying to destroy Scientology, because look at what he is doing and that IS the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.

Or is he really just the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain?

Or is he really the hidden Third Party that is too incredible for most Scientologists to spot?

It’s easy enough to know. Walk into any one of these “Ideal Orgs” and see whether there is massive expansion occurring? Do they have more or less staff than was shown on the video for their “Grand Opening”? How many students are in the course room? How many Clears have they made since they “opened”? Funny that you aren’t hearing about the massive expansion in these individual orgs. All you see about them is Miscavige cutting the ribbon and spouting flowery doublespeak written by the LRH Biographer and some shots of empty buildings.

Why you may ask don’t the people in the orgs say anything about this? It’s the old Roman strategy of “divide and conquer.” The few remaining staff huddled in the cold in the Buffalo “Ideal Org” think they are the only ones who have an empty org and that they are really out of step with the rest of the Scientology world. They don’t even want to ask the few remaining staff in Madrid what things are like over there. They’d probably be shot if they tried. And no public person wants to look like a fool after donating time and money to creating the “Ideal Org” and being good followers of the great COB and his “Command Intention” by questioning whether the org is doing well. They see it, but they quietly hope someone else is going to deal with it.

But there is another beauty to this plan too. It keeps everyone quiet.

Because anyone who points out the obvious is labeled an SP. “Obviously” if someone is saying the orgs aren’t full and expanding they are CI – or worse yet, they are gloating about it and want it that way. And who would gloat at the poor staff who are there working their asses off day in and day out? Only a pure SP. Again, propaganda by redefinition of terms. Pointing out the obvious is redefined as gloating. The staff of those orgs are in the unenviable position of having no management to guide them. No programs. No marketing. Those things have all been forsaken for the “Ideal Org Strategy” because of course, once the “Ideal Org” has been shown on a video, it has no importance to Miscavige any longer. You can’t show a building opening twice. People might get suspicious.

It’s the big lie. It is clever. But when you analyse the FACTS, it is what it is. And until the real Third Party is spotted, the conflicts will continue.

And one last thing. The proof of this pudding is this: as soon as someone DOES spot the real source of the conflict, THE SP, charge blows, the clouds part and a whole lot of shaking starts going on.

Abilities return, sometimes chronic somatics even disappear, and things start going right again in one’s life. Hell, if you listen real close you might even hear scores of gentle “clicks” in the air, the sound of spines straightening up across the world.

Written by Mike Rinder
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Forgive the top-post, but the real 3P is LRH.

The conflict is between the scientologist and his perceived enemies, the "psychs". In reality, "psychs" are good, well-educated people who have dedicated their lives to making other people's lives happier. There are bad people who enter these fields to dominate others and take their money (like LRH under cover of his "religion angle"), but they are a small, small minority.

The conflict is kept going because of LRH's need to destroy his competition. Psychotic scientologists believing they are stuck in a 76 million year old incident are acting to destroy "psychs", because a former occultist stage magician that founded a "religion" for the express purposes of smashing his name into history and making buttwads of money tricked them into doing so for HIS benefit. Now that he's dead, who benefits? Yes, Miscavige. Yes, whoever takes over after him (like, maybe, Rathbun? Rinder? who?).

Yep, LRH is the WHO and his tech is the WHY. Another reason the conflict is maintained is that every cult needs its enemies. This "we're under seige" mindset provides a perfect excuse for why the tech doesn't work, the leader has feet of clay, and imposing ever more draconian restrictions on the thinking and behaviour of adherents. It has little to do with destroying the competition. The last thing Scientology needs is to eliminate psychiatry and replace it with the tech because it would expose the tech as bullshit.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
It's already been exposed as bullshit (as a whole).

I don't think they're worried about that. After all, it's a religion, nobody expects sense from a religion. What they are worried about is having "the morning hate", a la 1984, Orwell. As you put it, they need an enemy to rally the troops and extract money from them.

However, if they can stick a couple of "psychs" in jail, along the way, that helps bolster morale. Meanwhile, don't tell them about Hubbard's Vistaril, Benzedrine and booze.
 

purple haze

Patron with Honors
To obtain a good subjective reality on it, you'll need to spend ten of fifteen years being sued, and generally Fair Gamed, by Scientology. Then, after you've accumulated huge legal bills and debts to people who lent you money - and who, after years, want, or need, their money back - find yourself at a "settlement" meeting, with your own lawyers also wanting to be paid for years of work.

It's not quite as simple as a "buy off."

Very good post, Veda. I definitely do not think that any of those who fought so long and hard against the Church which attacked them, should be labeled "selling out" now, when they were forced to accept a settlement just to survive. It's just ludicrous to see all those now outside the Church going against each other in this manner.:coolwink:
 
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Nicole

Silver Meritorious Patron
Just saying!

I had to do 3p as I worked for OSA. I was the 3p.



But in Real Life 3p is BS. Imo sometimes could be in a conflict 3p, but mostly it happen without a 3p.
 
The Real Third Party
Thursday, 18 February 2010 16:20

There has been some discussion of late concerning the 3P that exists between “Scientology” and “Independents”.

LRH states: The law would seem to be:

A THIRD PARTY MUST BE PRESENT AND UNKNOWN IN EVERY QUARREL_FOR A CONFLICT TO EXIST.
Or
FOR A QUARREL TO OCCUR, AN UNKNOWN THIRD PARTY MUST BE_ACTIVE IN PRODUCING IT BETWEEN TWO POTENTIAL OPPONENTS.
Or
WHILE IT IS COMMONLY BELIEVED TO TAKE TWO TO MAKE A FIGHT, A_THIRD PARTY MUST EXIST AND MUST DEVELOP IT FOR ACTUAL CONFLICT TO_OCCUR.

... [Del] (of long pile of crap by Rinder]

Written by Mike Rinder

As the chronic self-confessed liar of OSA infamy, this is about as BAD AS IT GETS!

Fly
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Very good post, Veda. I definitely do not think that any of those who fought so long and hard against the Church [which M & M were on the side of at the time], should be labeled "selling out" now, when they were forced to accept a settlement just to survive. It's just ludicrous to see all those now outside the Church going against each other in this manner.:coolwink:

Although written in crayon, this is a very good point.

Every single person that leaves Scientology has a different story, different familial relationships, and different levels of access to financial / employment / housing / transport / communications opportunities. Some people leave the cult and already have sufficient economic resources, others might have family money, some have desirable formal educational qualifications, and some have nothing. Who the fuck is any one to judge anyone and the circumstances surrounding personal decisions? So long as these people contribute positively towards bringing justice to the cult and getting it off my internets, I will continue to say only positive things about them.
 
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...
Who, other than a real SP, would not want to destimulate the planet by getting as many people as possible to be able to erase their reactive minds? Who, other than an SP, would not want everyone to be able to read and understand what they are reading with Study Technology. And after all, we all want a Cleared Planet as our ultimate goal.
...
Written by Mike Rinder
It is not the ultimate goal, it is the only goal,

Everything you do should be helping achieve this goal or you are an evil person .If you have a problem understanding why you are such an evil person, there are plenty of expensive procedures you will be manipulated into purchasing to help you be programmed into understanding this.

Nobody gets involved with Scientology just to turn everyone into Scientologist, ... which by the way is all that Scientology is designed to accomplish.

Ron's Tech has never even remotely come close to producing a single Clear or OT, it does not make people saner, in fact it does the opposite. It does not make people more able, it makes them dependent on Scientology. It is not a bridge to total freedom, it is the road to becoming a slave to 'Ron's Goal'.

The only thing 'Ron's Tech' has ever produced is Scientologists ... it's up to you to convince yourself the placebo effect of 'Ron's Tech' is helping you, if you don't it's going to cost you.

So let's stop this silly ass game of good guys, bad guys, third parties, evil psychs, Hubbard's imaginary enemies and all of the other characters in Hubbard's role playing mind control game. The problem is not some random 'third party' and it's not the management of the cult, The problem is Hubbard and his mindfuck trapping people into believing the problem is something other than Hubbard and his mindfuck.

If it wasn't for Hubbard's Mindfuck, there wouldn't be a trail of victims of Hubbard's Standard Tech who got in the way of 'Clearing The Planet'. The Cult's Management is just exactly what Ron wanted them to do ... destroy anyone who gets in the way of turning everyone into a member of his cult.

When Hubbard claim Dianetics and Scientology is ultimately about survival, he didn't tell you it's about the survival of him and his cult, and has nothing to do with your survival

Scientology can be summed up into a single sentence

If you do not make Hubbard's Goal your primary goal in life, you are an enemy

... pretty much everything else about Scientology is just part of the game to help achieve this goal.
 

elwood

Patron with Honors
Very good post, Veda. I definitely do not think that any of those who fought so long and hard against the Church [which M & M were on the side of at the time], should be labeled "selling out" now, when they were forced to accept a settlement just to survive. It's just ludicrous to see all those now outside the Church going against each other in this manner.:coolwink:

As my own attorney advised me: "Principles are the most expensive thing you can buy". At some point you have to get on with your life.
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
Oh, third party....... you adorable little piece of tek, you :flirt:

That's one thing that brought about the most insanely crazy happenings. Even at the Scino run company I worked with, anytime some spat or something would come up---BAM! Here comes the golden-rod with the same stupid 3rd party questions.... Third party 'tech' just deflected the situation off of the actual upset. Oh no.......2 Scientologists can't work something out and it's a big deal and it's not resolving? Well.....ARC and the comm cycle and the tek can solve anything, SO it's GOT to be some MYSTERIOUS HIDDEN THIRD PERSON! Yeah...let's blame THAT guy.... So, it's kind of 4P tech...4thP being Hubscam pointing and going pssssssst.....look over there instead.
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Kwisatz Haderach sounds pretty lucky

She ... was confronted immediately with a cellular core, a pit of blackness from which she recoiled. That is the place where we cannot look, she thought. There is the place the Reverend Mothers are so reluctant to mention — the place where only a Kwisatz Haderach may look.....:eyeroll::biggrin:
 
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