The Route In.

Curiosity

Patron with Honors
I took a look at Clearbird's online version of the HRD. I assume that bears some similarity to what is being discussed. I received the HRD in 1982/3 but didn't audit it and don't remember all the steps of it.

I wouldn't attempt to add this to my Robot. I could probably do it so that a well-trained auditor could use it to get a reasonably good result on him/herself, but there is too much fine decision-making to leave it in the hands of an untrained person.

Plus there would be copyright issues. :)

Paul

Thanks, Paul. I'll stick to practicing rub and yawn with things pressed against my nose, then. :thumbsup:
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Because if I didnt, I would never get out of the RPF. And I was a Scientologist, a SEA ORG MEMBER, with a FIXED, Dedicated GLARE!!!!! (And that FPRD beat it out of me for sure. Mocking up overts and rerunning the same stuff over and over from different angles. It was ludicrious)

Thanks. I understand.
 
E-meters are not truth detectors.

A. I never said they were.

B. They are VERY good for detecting "charge" on a pc's case. That is all that is really necessary.

PC's can sort out for themselves what they think is "true".


Hubbard was misleading you when he wrote, "Your e-meter will tell you."

Not at all, see B above. The e-meter does tell you, although it's not strictly necessary. It's just a bloody good "power tool". :)

I use my meter to find "charge" on a case, not to determine what the "truth" may be. Something need not be "true" to read as charged. Quite the contrary. It is not at all uncommon for things that are "untrue" to be heavily charged.

If you think an emeter is a "lie detector" then I suggest you clear up your misunderstanding about what it is and how it should be used. That's the sort of nonsense the SO gets up to with coercive sec-checks.


Mark A. Baker
 

Veda

Sponsor
A. I never said they were.

B. They are VERY good for detecting "charge" on a pc's case. That is all that is really necessary.

PC's can sort out for themselves what they think is "true".



Not at all, see B above. The e-meter does tell you, although it's not strictly necessary. It's just a bloody good "power tool". :)

I use my meter to find "charge" on a case, not to determine what the "truth" may be. Something need not be "true" to read as charged. Quite the contrary. It is not at all uncommon for things that are "untrue" to be heavily charged.

If you think an emeter is a "lie detector" then I suggest you clear up your misunderstanding about what it is and how it should be used. That's the sort of nonsense the SO gets up to with coercive sec-checks.


Mark A. Baker

My comments were about L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology, not about Mark A. Baker's Scientology.

E-meters can be useful, to a very limited extent, IMO, as stress detectors. In a manipulative environment, or a manipulative system (as in mind-manipulation) they can - and are - used to trick and exploit those vulnerable.

Hubbard realized that e-meters could be used manipulatively while watching the audience going 'Ooh!" and "Ah!" when demonstrations were made with the Mathison meter using a projector to display the needle swing - as a shadow - on a screen.

In confidential materials Hubbard explains that it may seem unreal, but once you've watched enough needle swings and (ooh ah!) Tone Arm drops, well, then that unreality with disappear.

That's a mind game.
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
I am not at all sure that 5000mg of niacin is necessary - I was on that level for, I think, about 10 days - or maybe it was longer - forgot now - a whole plate full of vits to eat for breakfast - yummy - esepcially when I chewed every one (not being someone who swallows unchewed stuff very easily). I am far from expert on the subject, but I have seen comments to the effect that this level is bordering on toxic. I have a 'sensitive liver' according to one Dr. and I have seen comment from one person that is in a similar position that they thought this may have something to do with the Purif. So naturally I wonder too, but have no other evidence one way or the other than that.

I myself had no particular heavy drug history - but I am very sensitive to the chlorine that they put in swimming pools. In some swimming pools I simply have to leave even before getting in the water because it gets in the air and it makes my eyes sore. So I really hate chlorine. On the Purif I stunk of it for quite some time. Something was happening anyway.

One guy had an all over niacin flush while I was on it - except for an S.O. symbol on his chest - like it had restimulated a radiation burn and he had been wearing a metal necklace. Neither of us were OT3 at the time. That was sort of spooky - especially when I read the 3 materials much later

Ditto on the liver. I discovered mine was not quite right about two years after quitting the org, but I can't prove that it didn't exist before I did the purif.

I also remember another person from my home town. When he did the purif, he flushed as though sunburned except for the shape of a hand in the middle of his back. Someone had slapped him in the middle of the back with a handful of zinc cream (the white or pink "war paint" you see on cricketers' faces) at the school swimming carnival and the rest of his back was burned.

Whether the purif works or not, I can't say, but it's flaming brilliant at restimulating things.
 

grundy

Gold Meritorious Patron
This may or may be a dead thread but,

The one big change in my life from the purif is that I'm now far less heat-tolerant than I ever was before.

This may or may be a dead thread but,

Reading through these old threads, I had to comment on this:

The funny thing is that I am far more heat tolerant than I was.

I found that I could feel things far more completely. So I reacted more to things physically. Certain odors that I had become desensitized to became more vivid.

I actually remember the room I was in became brighter, like a veil lifted. And I mean PHYSICALLY more clear. That was it, I was done.

But then again, ever since then, I am more sensitive to brightness.

I don't know that the Rundown delivered properly will help or harm someone physically or emotionally. I know most people end up going far too long and just want to get it done.
 

nowout

Patron with Honors
Why would you say that? He pulled NOTs out of his hat - Hubbard was half dead at that time.
Nick

When HRD was done (early 80's), LRH was not "half dead" as you say. You and Veda can believe whatever you want and assume as you wish. There was bad stuff done, but this was not one of them.

You were not there. I did the pilot before it was released and it was awesome.
 

Veda

Sponsor
When HRD was done (early 80's), LRH was not "half dead" as you say. You and Veda can believe whatever you want and assume as you wish. There was bad stuff done, but this was not one of them.

You were not there. I did the pilot before it was released and it was awesome.

I never wrote that "LRH was half dead in the early 1980s."

Here are my 'TWTH'-related posts on this thread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=69132&postcount=75

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=68000&postcount=39

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=67982&postcount=34

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=67483&postcount=5
 
:faceslap: Have you ever wondered about the reasoning behind the intro steps of the Purification Rundown, The Happiness Rundown and the False Purpose Rundown. At the end of this last step you have a member who is totally committed, enslaved, in fact.:omg:

...

Each of us has our own point of view on this.

What is yours?


A. Purif: Never LIKED it, although I admit that I had some positive results from it. Least favorite action in scientology.

B. HRD: did the original Mayo HRD. It was WONDERFUL. OUTSTANDING. SUPERB. Many many wins, several HUGE.

A major factor in my ultimate decision to dissassociate myself from the Co$ over their ethical misconduct. :)

C. FPRD: never did it.


Mark A. Baker
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Ditto on the liver. I discovered mine was not quite right about two years after quitting the org, but I can't prove that it didn't exist before I did the purif.

I also remember another person from my home town. When he did the purif, he flushed as though sunburned except for the shape of a hand in the middle of his back. Someone had slapped him in the middle of the back with a handful of zinc cream (the white or pink "war paint" you see on cricketers' faces) at the school swimming carnival and the rest of his back was burned.

Whether the purif works or not, I can't say, but it's flaming brilliant at restimulating things.

I've heard a lot of these 'turning things on' things about the purif, including all the 'drug flashbacks' etc., but, the patterned flushing is actually something I can see as possible and not purely placebo'ed.

After all, a sunburn might well include scarring of the subcutaneous layers of skin, and, a 'flush' like niacin causes might well show the patterns of scarring.

Needless to say, I consider the 'theory' of 'radiation stored in fat cells' being 'turned on and run out' ludicrous.

Zinj
 

Roland ami

Patron with Honors
Re FPRD

I did a lot of FPRD auditing, both as a PC and an auditor. The ep (end phenomenon) of an FPRD chain is a persistent F/N or FT/A and a "Spectacular release". Given that, it is hopelessly out-tech to take the pc back into session until he wants more auditing.

When I was coauditing the FPRD program, and also when I was auditing PC's on it at AO, I refused to take PC's back in until their persistent F/N had genuinely gone away. Over-running it does NOT count as going away! As a result, I think, both I and at least most of my PC's had very good wins from FPRD and I can't remember any roboticness in any of them - quite the opposite in fact.

I remember being told by the captain of AOLA that you couldn't accept giving the PC his win - you had to "whistle up the bank". I thought what a lot of bullshit, and ignored that. I applied the same thing on NOTs too, not over-running wins, and thus did pretty well.

I can imagine that anyone who had real FPRD with the ep you are supposed to get, and had it over-run, would end up in pretty bad shape. Conversely anyone who had it without the ep would have bypassed charge and be in just as bad shape.

I never had the HRD, or delivered it, and did do the purif, with no great gain or effect. But then I had a very light drug history.

Roland
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
The point was that if you droppedyour own codes of conduct and took on board Hubbard's rules for happy living, that itaelf was a valence sfift. You were no longer acting as your own self.

That explains so much about Scn to me.
 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
Happiness RD is generally after Purif and Trs and Objectives co-audit, and right before ARC Straightwire and the Grades.

To me, it's the TRs and Objectives co-audit that really begins to lay in the control. Op Pro by Dup, whew!

I agree with most of this but I did benefit from Op Pro by Dup. I located the source of my unwillingness to obey commands, for instance (being a soldier in a previous life).

P.S. "Whistling up the bank" - = "whistling up the bank manager" to pay for all the extra auditing you're going to have that you didn't really need :no:
 
amino acids

I think all the rundowns produce compliance simply by the combination of suggestion + procedures (repeated) with focus on particular outcomes etc. The Purif may raise mood
by excercise + vits + focus to get a "win" (endorphin release) and that could help with re-signing. But the idea that the persons amino acids will be lowered and that will produce compliance seems bizarre to me because there are several amino acids, when deficient
will result in irritability, depression, stress and general mood problems. That will just make the person feel bad and difficult to be around. I think all the courses have built in psch/hypno tech played out in a longer time frame than a usual hyno session. And part of it may very well be
that the participant gets benefits. But the amino acid thing.. I would like specifics on which amino acids and which vitamins are being referred to.
 
A

Art

Guest
There is another major problem:

They are not designed for being run on someone who is exterior. Done the Scio way objectives will stick you in the body - this will cause quite a PTP for some pc's.

I designed the Kn objectives to allow for being exterior and operating the body from an exterior position.

Running objective from an exterior position enhances tremendously the ability to hold a position, and causing your intentions to work across distances! :omg:

Cogged on that. Ext. f/n.
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes, I did the Purif at St Hill.

I based my comments on the HRD upon observing several public undergoing the rundown. They seemed much more robotic and "on purpose" than before. True believers.

Maybe I got it wrong.

The FPRD was just coming in when I left. I saw a few "dedicated" public members who had done the rundown and in each case they went into psychotic fanatical outbursts about SP's and the "enemies" lurking out there.
Uniformly, their lives turned to sh*t, they mortgaged their properties to the hilt, paid their money across and died soon after.

As for staff, I remember being down in E. Grinstead one day and encountered an old friend, someone who had a lot of shared happy times. He completed the FPRD and had joined the Financial Police. His face was contorted in fury, he screamed that I was a F***ing SP, spittle dribbling down his chin. I laughed and told him he would probably feel better when he got back in valence. Not a good move, he was now so pent up in his rage, bile and hatred that I thought he was going to have a coronary.

This did not leave me with a positive impression.


What I am pleased about is the wide range of comment and thought that has gone into the discussion on this thread.


The FPRD will certainly preduce this kind of result. The original HRD is very unlikely to.

The FPRD was introduced very much as a salvage action because so many guys were blowing after the HRD - something had to be done to entrench their loyalty. So the HRD got rewritten and the FPRD was introduced.

I have written about this on another thread somewhere - the effective action with the FPRD is that the preclear confesses to the Org terminal. That is the flow direction, never ever the other way around.

When I confess to you over a period of time I subliminally entrench the idea into myself that I am wrong and you are right. Always. Keep doing this and a valence flip will always occur.

This was known to the Catholics, to the Russians, to the Korean war brainwashers of American troops. It doesn't matter what you confess, it only matters that you confess and keep confessing more and more.

You brainwash yourself this way.

Compulsory knowledge reports also got put in with a bang after the HRD disaster. Report on your fellow workers. That gets you to individuate from them and to align yourself with the senior terminals n the Org. More self-induced brainwashing.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
I had an interesting experience whilst doing the HRD Auditor Course.
As I was working my way through the various Precepts I was sort of straight-wiring all the times I'd violated each one until I noticed that it was making me feel bad.
I started looking at all the times in the past when I'd, just out of good sense, upheld the Precepts and was quite amazed to find a much greater number of those instances, I started feeling better and better. I had a definite change of viewpoint and became a better version of "me" as a result.
I had no interest in doing the Rundown after that and, once I'd written it up, a very smart C/S (now a member of this Message Board) agreed with me.
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
I had an interesting experience whilst doing the HRD Auditor Course.
As I was working my way through the various Precepts I was sort of straight-wiring all the times I'd violated each one until I noticed that it was making me feel bad.
I started looking at all the times in the past when I'd, just out of good sense, upheld the Precepts and was quite amazed to find a much greater number of those instances, I started feeling better and better. I had a definite change of viewpoint and became a better version of "me" as a result.
I had no interest in doing the Rundown after that and, once I'd written it up, a very smart C/S (now a member of this Message Board) agreed with me.

Panda T; to a larger extent the same thing happened to me - I found I made much bigger wins running the positives or times I had done things right or well.

:)
 
I had an interesting experience whilst doing the HRD Auditor Course.
As I was working my way through the various Precepts I was sort of straight-wiring all the times I'd violated each one until I noticed that it was making me feel bad.
I started looking at all the times in the past when I'd, just out of good sense, upheld the Precepts and was quite amazed to find a much greater number of those instances, I started feeling better and better. I had a definite change of viewpoint and became a better version of "me" as a result.
I had no interest in doing the Rundown after that and, once I'd written it up, a very smart C/S (now a member of this Message Board) agreed with me.


I had many interesting experiences on the HRD, very very "positive". Frankly it "rocked my world". Wonderful stuff. I was on the original Mayo version and it came late in my "church" auditing. Still brings a smile to my face.

Shortly after completion I left involvement with the Co$ over disagreement with organizational ethics. Never had cause to question the decision. As I understand it, this was a common "EP" for HRD completions around the time of the RTC takeover.


Mark A. Baker
 
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