me myself & i
Patron Meritorious
Hey but why "God forbid" in reference to Lionheart? Should I feel affronted? :confused2:
To the contrary.
mm&i
&we
Hey but why "God forbid" in reference to Lionheart? Should I feel affronted? :confused2:
Oh, hey, Moj- oh, I mean mm&i & we...
There are many ways of examining concepts, Scn-ish or otherwise. I assume you have a (non Scn/English) dictionary handy and don't need me to define the word "examine".
I'm not "offended by" you. And I explained my comment just fine. It was a very straightforward simple comment to begin with, in any event.
**replonk**
Nice attempt at PR damage control, taylored to the 'public' at ESMB. Hopefully, no one will quote Judge Breckenridge and burst the bubble.
Excerpt from a letter written, by Ron Hubbard to wife Polly a.k.a. 'Skipper', soon after the writing of the unpublished manuscript, 'The One Command' ('Excalibur'):
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=80902&postcount=43
http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=64970&postcount=41
What was there about Hubbard's "chapters on the mind" that he wanted it to affect others' minds, but not his own mind?
Why not just link to the ($cientology) perimeter defense 'PR damage control' site from which much of this comes?
And, on another thread, tell about the wins on the student hat...
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=198121&postcount=145
There's a pattern to these Affirmations ("Admissions"), a pattern that is reflected in later Scientology, and has been described as "schizophrenic," or "dichotomous."
The "Overt/Covert" pattern of the subject and organization of Scientology ("PR is overt. Intelligence is covert.") can be seen in these Affirmations.
Hubbard writes that he tells the truth (the visible, or "overt"), then writes (the covert), "No matter what lies you tell others, they have no physical effect on you of any kind." And, "You can tell all the romantic tales you wish. You will remember them. But you know which ones were lies. You are so logical, you will tell nothing that cannot be believed."
Hubbard then goes on to explain how he can take the adventures of others and adopt them as his own - in other words, prevaricate and misrepresent - and yet, he "tells the truth," etc.
It should be mentioned that these Affirmations are not complete - that there are more. More from 1946, and - apparently - more from the 1930s. Before any of this was known, by way of the reading into the court record of sections of the Affirmations, L. Ron Hubbard Jr. had commented that his father used self-hypnosis and Affirmation-type short statements, repeated to himself through a sound-recorder, to boost his self-confidence. Ron Jr. also added that his father would sometimes combine drug use with these Affirmation-phrases. Both assertions were ridiculed as crazy by Scientologists, who knew that the founder of Scientology couldn't possibly have practiced self-hypnosis or have taken drugs.
One Affirmation omitted from this partial list of Affirmations is, "All men shall be your slaves. All women shall succumb to your charms. All Mankind shall grovel at your feet and not know why."
Another Affirmation that didn't make into this incomplete list is, "It doesn't give me displeasure to hear of a virgin being raped. The lot of women is to be fornicated."
One that did make into this collection is, "You can be merciless when your will is crossed, and you have the right to be merciless."
Hubbard, however, does not see himself as anything but true and noble. "You are light and you are good. You have the wisdom of all and never doubt your wisdom."
He adds, "You have magnificent power but you are humble and calm and patient in that power. For you control all forces under you as you wish."
And, then, "Men are your slaves."
And, "Your writing has a deep hypnotic effect on people and they are always pleased with what you write."
"Your psychology is advanced and true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions, for you are their ruler."
Scientology Inc.'s settlement agreement with Gerry Armstrong was a "global settlement." (It involved many separate cases, where any one person refusing to settle would derail the agreement for all others, thus imposing a form of duress on each person, who knew that others, often in debt to friends and family, having hospital bills, mortgages, etc. were in need of the funds from a settlement). Armstrong, under pressure of this "global settlement," agreed to the terms of 11 December 1986:
In essence, he was expected to remain silent on all things having to do with L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. The agreement also specifically stipulated the return of "All originals and copies of documents commonly known as the 'Affirmations' written by L. Ron Hubbard."
Omar Garrison, Hubbard's official biographer - whom Armstrong had assisted - also signed a similar agreement.
Scientology Inc. took possession of Hubbard's 'Affirmations', which are more extensive than those currently available on the Net as the (1946) 'Admissions'. However, there were "leaks," as copies of the 'Affirmations' had been made by individuals not involved with the settlement, prior to the settlement, and are now "out there," and are (in part) currently available on the Net.
Scientology has the complete existing record of Hubbard's 'Affirmations' which, apparently, date from the 1930s through the late 1940s, and has no intention of allowing anyone to see them.
Hopefully, in time, more of these leaked 'Affirmations' will become available.
The content of Hubbard's 'Affirmations' is, of course, problematic for Scientology, however, there's more - It opens the door to two areas that Scientology Inc. considers dangerous to Hubbard's image: That Hubbard practiced self-hypnosis, and that Hubbard used drugs, notably psycho-active pharmaceutical drugs, much of his life, before and after 1950.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=56246&postcount=798
Soderqvist1: I have read your links and they are truth. I am quite comfortable with it, because I don’t have any agenda to twist the truth one-way or the other. But that seems not to be the case with you, since my links are equally truth, yet you blame them!
It seems odd to me how upset people get about the affs. He wrote them years before he started Scn. They're just maunderings and wishful thinking.
Well, I can see that. I think that a lot of things can be- and are- abused.
In the end, I think it's not the meat, it's the motion. Someone can create something with bad intentions and then someone else may, if the thing seems to work at all, come along and use it benignly. Conversely, someone can create something and have neutral or good intentions and someone can come along and misuse it.
Hubbard clearly had some highly greedy and selfish intentions from Day 1, as far as I can see. Cap't Bill? I think he kind of went nuts, perhaps.
Now, when I think of occultism in and of itself, I think that it can be used or abused. Either way. However, I do think caution should be indicated. I recently got a book- I forgot what series- it's these people who put out some "what they're not telling you" type alternative series. So they're marching to the beat of a different drummer, anyway. Anyway, the book was about the occult, and each chapter was about a different person who was into some element of the occult. One lady was a Pan worshipper, and so on. What struck me about these people is that with the exception of maybe one or two- almost everyone they described- and they were trying to be FAVORABLE- seemed mentally ill or disturbed to me. And some of the occultists I knew seemed seriously messed up.
So all I can come up with is that there are pitfalls there. Maybe it's "restimulative". Maybe it's innately problematic. Maybe it's just that disturbed people tend to gravitate to it- I know that's true of Scn. I don't know.
But I don't think that the affirmations themselves, for me anyway, in my own opinion and my personal take on things, constitute enough proof of any problematic nature of Scn.
What I find far more disturbing than the affs are policies saying things like let's get the critics, let's have an RPF, it's ok to leave if you want to but you have to be on a routing form, staff shouldn't get a living wage- I know I saw one like that, maybe two- all psychs are SPs, galactic conspiracies. Oh, and the Sea Org. Billion year contract? One day off a year? As a Scn'ist, I think it's "dramatizing slavery" and as just a person I'd say that it's a lot of rationalization of indentured servitude and is inherently abusive and problematic.
I find those things far more disturbing than I ever did the affs.
What I don't get is that they are obviously bad news so why would Hubbard keep them around.
Doesn't make sense...
Don't care though.... ok i do.
He was a writer.
Writers always keep everything around - they might turn into a story or a script some day.
And please don't just disappear and not say nothing... i hate that.
They may have to exist for the 'magick' to work..What I don't get is that they are obviously bad news so why would Hubbard keep them around.
Doesn't make sense...
Don't care though.... ok i do.