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The smoking Gun

Discussion in 'Important documents' started by WildKat, Feb 11, 2012.

  1. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    That would be my guess as well. :yes:
     
  2. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Being on the outside, it is just speculation what exactly she is referring to. The tip of the ice berg may mean one thing to us and quite another to His Daveness. Time will tell, as the piles of chewed off finger nails grow around us.

    Mimsey
     
  3. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    I have been wondering the same thing and wondered if anyone was going to post that including the CO$ lawyers. But you are the first one. I had thought of it but didn't.

    It's similar to the perverting the course of justice that Eagate is up against except in this country I think they call it aiding and abetting
     
  4. ChurchOfCylontology

    ChurchOfCylontology Patron with Honors

    How is it just speculation when Debbie Cook says, in writing, that she knows of specific crimes and wants to bargain that knowledge for her own benefit (and not to the benefit of those still stuck in the Hole)?

    This is a first hand admission that she is participating in a conspiracy among other criminal acts (blackmail, for one). How is that speculation?
     
  5. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    While I have not yet given her any money for her legal defense, if I were going to do such a thing it would be to get at least SOME of the truth about the CoS out there. Even if it is just the tip of the iceberg (so far) it is enough imo to help wake up some people still in, and hopefully encourage some to pressure the Justice Dept to act.

    The letter that was referenced wouldn't even have been known about if not for the legal proceedings that have occurred so far.

    Money spent on her legal defense will do more than just help her legal defense. It brings CoS representatives into a court of law, under oath, giving them more opportunities to launch these nuclear-tipped foot bullets. And THAT is worthwhile in my book.
     
  6. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    Maybe she knows where the bodies are buried and why?:biggrin:
     
  7. Student of Trinity

    Student of Trinity Silver Meritorious Patron

    Maybe I missed something, but is this perhaps the first time Cook has really talked about her Scientology experience in public to non-Scientologists?

    For most people, I think, talking to others is also listening to oneself through their ears. You can see how people react to your words, and get an idea of how it sounds to them. Just by talking to her lawyer, testifying in open court, and being interviewed, Cook may have learned things about Scientology that she somehow didn't see for thirty years inside. I wonder whether her own attitudes may start changing now. Probably not instantly, but maybe fairly quickly.
     
  8. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Lets bring her into court and give her full immunity IF she fully cooperates with the FBI and tells all.

    That's IF the FBI need her cooperation in order to get convictions. (if they don't, then disregard what I said) :coolwink:
     
  9. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    She'll become marty's #2 or he hers.
     
  10. ChurchOfCylontology

    ChurchOfCylontology Patron with Honors

    I can appreciate that the donations are used to help bring the truth to light, but as with anything related to giving a Scientologist or ex-Scientologist money in the name of litigation against the Cult it is a double edged sword. Donating to Debbie's legal defense fund provides financial support to both the victim and the perpetrator simultaneously, and sadly those donations support someone who was still willing to participate in the victimization of many still kept hostage just a few weeks ago. Her letter is first hand proof of my statement.
     
  11. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    IF she incriminated herself with that letter, and IANAL so won't speak to that, but IF she did it is a result of these legal proceedings.

    So for myself or anyone else who may have contributed money, that didn't help her so much there, did it?

    Besides, sometimes it is necessary to help a perpetrator in order to prosecute a case in the first place. THAT would be one of the reasons that prosecutors grant immunity in some cases, wouldn't it? Not for the purpose of helping a perpetrator, rather for the purpose of getting convictions.
     
  12. ChurchOfCylontology

    ChurchOfCylontology Patron with Honors

    You are talking about criminal proceedings, not civil matters. Yes, prosecutors use those with varying degrees of criminal culpability to fry bigger fish but this case is entirely different because no one is facing criminal charges.

    IF, and only if, criminal charges come out of the Debbie Cook civil case then I will think that donating to her legal defense was a just action. Until then, it is a very mixed bag and one (right now) that is supporting someone who was willing to let others suffer for her own gain.
     
  13. anonomog

    anonomog Gold Meritorious Patron

    I think some of donations may signify much more for the donators than the beneficiary in this case.
    If it pleases you to provide the financial equivalent of waving supportive banners (or an "F you cult") against a common foe then go for it.

    I don't like seeing the nagging for donations though.
     
  14. ChurchOfCylontology

    ChurchOfCylontology Patron with Honors

    Agreed. People have different motivations for giving her money (and nagging is tacky). If I had been one to give her money I would be enraged with her right now because of how willing she was to let others suffer in the name of personal gain and it was only a few weeks ago.
     
  15. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    It is also supporting someone who was witness to the horrific insanity, human rights abuses, and criminality at the Int Base and may be willing (to some extent) to speak about this stuff.

    I will support her right to tell what she knows about this stuff and to defend herself against the CoS who is attempting to silence her.

    This doesn't mean that I support any illegal or immoral acts that SHE has committed in the past.
    (hint: I don't)

    I want her, Rinder, Rathbun, up on the witness stand testifying under oath about what they know, period.

    The information they provide I trust will help to inoculate others from getting involved with this organization in the future. And hopefully it will lead to criminal proceedings down the road.

    Without a proper legal defense the CoS will silence her and so THAT will be helping a perpetrator as well, wouldn't it?
     
  16. anonomog

    anonomog Gold Meritorious Patron

    My bold.
    It seems to me that being "willing to let others suffer for his/her own gain" is perceived as a winning formula for Scientology execs. (If buying them a little more survival time until the inevitable happens can be seen as winning.)

    But if this has been a mostly "successful" SOP for someone their entire adult lives, why would they change?

    They are what they are, both by the nature of their character and through the unholy, twisted scientology nurturing.

    If anyone thinks that donating will change a person, then best they keep their wallet firmly closed.
     
  17. ChurchOfCylontology

    ChurchOfCylontology Patron with Honors

    The very week people were giving her money for her legal defense was the week she tried to illegally (and immorally) bargain with the Cult - her silence for their silence. That doesn't bother you?

    I agree with your other statements but that one.

    I would love to see Rathbun, Rinder, and Cook face the music in regards to the crimes they committed but as long as their love of LRH supersedes their love of humanity it will not happen.
     
  18. Jquepublic

    Jquepublic Silver Meritorious Patron

    Mine is an "F you cult!" banner, but I'm also rallied behind her as a victim of cult abuse, just as I would rally anyone who speaks out about the abuse they suffered. I want to see her win as a former member of the same church who suffered in different ways from the experience.

    Got it on the perpetrator reference. "For a plot hatched in hell, don't expect angels for witnesses" will wind up being the most memorable quote from the story for me. I don't have a clue what else she has to say, let alone Mike and Marty. I want them to say it though, in a court of law and as part of the public record.
     
  19. WildKat

    WildKat Gold Meritorious Patron

    That's a good guess. But why would Ortega be reluctant to name them? I think it's someone who isn't quite ready to announce their position and has asked for anonymity for the time being. Gathering evidence maybe.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2012
  20. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    If THAT is how she truly feels then yes, it would bother me tremendously, as well as a number of other things I've heard about how she handled her position of Captain FSO for so many years.

    But as someone who wants to stop the abuses and criminality within Scientology, I feel the best thing is for her to speak about what she knows.

    If she would have been successfully silenced by CoS (as they've done with many others) that would have been a huge win for DM.

    And if her attorneys are able to invalidate the legality of those gag orders the cult uses on people leaving that will be huge. It's not just about the legal defense of Debbie Cook. This case will have a much broader impact.